I've never really won a game, i agree some kind of tutorial on it would be nice. the most experience I got was building an ip and dropping an sg 4 myself. also, make the chair look cooler and more original. maby some windows, a power cord to the wall, more like a desk. make it red too... It looks like a picture both at a train station. (no offense)
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1688701:date=Sep 23 2008, 02:52 PM:name=1mannARMEE)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(1mannARMEE @ Sep 23 2008, 02:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1688701"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Custom UI: (Every little aspect of the UI for the Commander and for the Aliens and the Marines has to be totally customizable)
- Custom colour of your UI - Custom size of your UI - Custom position of your UI - Custom hotkeys: (i.e. Warcraft III / Starcraft) q w e r a s d f y/z x c v
-Toggling on/off everything, if you want to. Features:
- Shift between different levels of the map via Shift+Mousewheel so you are able to design maps with more than one level.
- The Commander might be able to take over the control of Sentries and Siege Cannons, and uses them, similar to "Dungeon Keeper" (if the commanding experience is getting too boring ?! )
- Displaying a Route for the Marines like a GPS which auto interrupts and alarms the Commander if nearby aliens are spotted by the Marine or Scanners, so the Commander knows that the Marines won't arrive in time to their Waypoints.
- The common Stuff (everything you need nowadays in a strategy game) like "Guarding", "Attack Move", "Patrol", "Hold Ground", Chaining Commands, Jump to Events via Hotkey (i.e. A marine needs HP, the Commander uses the Hotkey and auto drops a HP at the marine location), Minimaps, Zooming, Switching to PoV (of turrets, marines etc.), Beacons on the Minimap to add notes for the marines, Range Indicators for Turrets and Radar, Radar Cloaking, Fog of War, with easy and intelligent clicking or keybinds.
- Fog of War, updating the map whenever a marine goes by, so once he spots an alien RT and dies, the Commander is able to see it on its map (with fog of war over it) and if the marine comes along a second time and spots some attack chambers added to the RT, the Commanders Map gets updated again. [the common stuff <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> ]
- Chaining Events together, 'Click' on Marine => 'Shift Click' Move here, Move there, Build structure after you arrived. (Spawns a Structure automatically, after the Marine arrived at his last Waypoint, also needs to "alarm" the commander, if the Marine didn't make it, or is under attack).
- If you form squads, there should be a small "Marine" (or Armslab, or Sensory, ...) added to your UI, with multiple health bars, reflecting the health of the whole squad. - If you get teamed up by the Commander, the Interface of the Marine should display the Other Teammates just like a Group System in any MMORPG. One person of the Squad automatically becomes the Squad Leader, a Squad Leader might get some HP or Armor boost, and the Aliens and the Marines should be able to recognize a Squad Leader (in favor of killing / protecting him), one Squad Leader is allowed per X Number of Marines, so you can't boost all your Marines ...
- the Alien Counterpart to this could be something like bonus damage, movement, ... if you stick together, depending on your "Alien-Squad" (Morale Immunity to Masses of Orks in Dawn of War or like firepower bonus for the Red Guard in C&C - Generals)
- Squad respawn problem, can be solved in two ways: The dead Marines spawn near the location of the Squad Leader (Dawn of War ... Reinforcment) this shouldn't be enabled in the early game, but can be enabled by teching. The other way of solving the Squad Problem is that the Squad has to die completly and respawns together ... Sorry for the strange writing and formatting (couldn't stop pressing random shift (I'm from Germany ... -.-)
Just take a look at all those strategy games around, new ones and old ones and try to compare them with one another and you get a feeling of what is good or useless for your game (if you have the time ofcourse <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> )
Basically I would combine the UI from Warcraft III with the UI of Supreme Commander, and add some MMORPG Interface for the marines and aliens to recognize their teammates status easily. Also add in some special ideas from various games, like the respawning to the squad leader, probably for both alien and marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There are two theories on this, one is the Wow theory to let your user do anything and everything to the UI, and the other is the SC2 theory to lock it down completely. The lock down is for control purposes and there's some benefit to it in competitive settings. However a changeable UI would be more "dynamic" and fit better for modding.
I'd say lock down the UI in NS2 Core, but design it with the purpose of being modifiable/extendible for mods.
A lot of the other ideas are good and have been suggested before. You probably won't be able to zoom though.
<!--quoteo(post=1691751:date=Oct 29 2008, 07:43 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Oct 29 2008, 07:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1691751"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are two theories on this, one is the Wow theory to let your user do anything and everything to the UI, and the other is the SC2 theory to lock it down completely. The lock down is for control purposes and there's some benefit to it in competitive settings. However a changeable UI would be more "dynamic" and fit better for modding.
I'd say lock down the UI in NS2 Core, but design it with the purpose of being modifiable/extendible for mods.
A lot of the other ideas are good and have been suggested before. You probably won't be able to zoom though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If my memory serves me right, Blizzard worked for a very long time to get the UI secure and stable with such modifiability. I don't know if its different in NS' case.
<!--quoteo(post=1691751:date=Oct 29 2008, 07:43 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Oct 29 2008, 07:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1691751"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are two theories on this, one is the Wow theory to let your user do anything and everything to the UI, and the other is the SC2 theory to lock it down completely. The lock down is for control purposes and there's some benefit to it in competitive settings. However a changeable UI would be more "dynamic" and fit better for modding.
I'd say lock down the UI in NS2 Core, but design it with the purpose of being modifiable/extendible for mods.
A lot of the other ideas are good and have been suggested before. You probably won't be able to zoom though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe somewhere the devs said there won't be zoom. Someone fact check me.
A) Allowing me to focus on my marines, not my base. (reducing need to click on structures to tech)
B) Either replacing medspam altogether or making a cooldown on it... and maybe removingt/modifying lerk gas or whatever. At any rate, as things are now, many games end with everyone on the rine team pissed off that the commander isn't making them immortal with his zero-cooldown medpacks. The current system breeds silly expectations or massive res wasted on medpacks. .... I'm still not against the comm being able to influence a battle directly with buffs and such but there should be a damn limit on them so that the comm doesn't take on the responsibilities of a god while still having to be stingy. It's a morale killer.
C) Remove the current babysitting-the-pile of weapons thing going on... reason: see item A. And also it's very annoying for both comm and rine when the comm is really busy and can't drop weapons after a rine has spawned, thus requiring waiting or running out ill-equipped. The best solution I can think of is: The comm buys weapons and they are stored the armory or whatever cache. Then people that the comm has checkboxed as trusted to be thrifty and effective with the weapons get to remove them from storage. ... the comm probably should be able to see a log of the last 20 weapon withdrawals to counter abuse and/or silly repeated grabbing and dying.
Or, if you're against the whole "discrimination" thing: Just let the comm buy weapons and they will be stored in the armory (default armory if there are two, I suppose).
D) Being able to queue waypoints.
Maybe some voice binds for the commander... only the marines have them now but the comm could be able to say things (and they'd be restricted to his current selection of players) ... things like "INCOMING", "good work", "halt", "defend this area" . ... and then maybe some more area specific sayings than just "move to waypoint, and "weld target at waypoint") ... but that's just a maybe, as personal voice comm is already serving these needs for all that have a mic.
This thread is huge so forgive me for not reading it completely before answering.
<b>Commanding Experience</b> I first hopped into the chair on halloween 2002. The good thing was, that I could learn and improve from the beginning. As my Marines learned how to fight, I learned how to comm. Nowadays new players don't have that luxury - if they do anything that does not follow the typical scheme on the server he'll probably get flamed and/or ejected. I think we all want NS2 to be around for a looong time this issue needs to be adressed. Therefore I think <b>a Singleplayer Commanding Tutorial is a MUST</b> (As well as a short, preferably story-driven FPS-Tutorial for Marines and Kharaa). I'd go so far as to FORCE players to finish the Commanding Tutorial before jumping into the chair. I'm all for little ACHIEVEMENTS for players. Make "TSA Commander License" such an Achievement that's unlocked once you finished the Tutorial. If you want to connect to a server without having the "Com License" tell the player he won't be able to use the comchair, connect anyway? ok. It actually MIGHT lead to a situation (shortly after release) where the Marines have no player with a com lisence. The server code should then overwrite the rule for this round.
<b>Interface</b> I think the current interface is quite intuitive but far from perfect. The SC-like layout is common in most RTS so it's easy to find your way through the menus. However I dislike having to scroll to my base, select the buildings one after another to see how far my researching is done, start new research and so on. I'd like to have a small <b>Building Icon</b> in the top right or top left corner for every building that is capable of researching/upgrading. <b>Autoassigning a hotkey</b> should be optional (I'd use it). Each of the small Icons should have a little <b>progress bar</b> showing the current research. A <b>single click on the icon selects the structure</b>, allowing you to start/stop upgrading, a <b>double click should select and jump to the structure</b>. Structures under attack should have a <b>flashing icon</b>. The "pulsating" of the icon should be <b>depending on the ammount of damage</b> the structure is taking. For example an RT being parasited would not even trigger a message (however a little green marking on the icon might be a usefull thing - not sure about that), if a Skulk is biting a structure it would flash in a slow but steady way and above a certain threashold the Icon would flash faster or simply stay red. This brings me to the computer voice wich I think should have <b>messages for every type of structure and upgrade (and amount of damage)</b>. For example it should not simply be "structure is under attack" but something like "Armslabs is under heavy attack" (when the damage/time is above a certain limit), "Jetpeck technology research finished", and so on. This would help me keep track of the overall status and/or evaluate the situation faster and better (especially when i'm currently busy medding my Marines).
<b>Waypoints</b> I personally think that giving orders via voice comm will always be superior to using waypoints. However <b>not everybody wants to or can use voice communication</b> so waypoints have to be as usefull as possible. Currently a right click will automatically chose the order for you. Click on an unbuild RT and it will say "Build structure at waypoint", click on a built RT and the order will be to defent it. While I think <b>contextual orders are fine, I don't think they are flexible enough</b>. I suggest to have a simple right click issue the standard contextual order just as it is now, If a player <b>holds down right mouse button for a second have a short list pop up that the commander can chose the order from</b>. The list of orders should include the classic "move", "build", "defend", "weld" and "attack" <b>and also some more strategic ones like "sneak to", "scout" and "regroup at"</b>. Combined with <b>waypoint cueing</b> This could allow more compley orders like: "Regroups at [Generator Room]. Build RT at [Cargo Bay]. Sneak to [Engine Room]". Players should have a little <b>list on their HUD that shows their next 3 orders</b>, so they do not only can follow orders but <b>get a bigger picture of the commander's strategy</b> - wich is an important thing to make the Marines actually subordinate (in a positive teamplay-ish way). As with the damage/upgrade voice messages <b>the orders should use the actual names of structures in their voice message</b> for the Marines. Location names of course can not be prerecorded unless you want to pay the voice actor again once you release the first official map pack - wich I hope will come at some time - so I suggest using "area" and "waypoint" for it in the voice message; An order would then say "Build RT at [Generator Room]" while the voice would say "Build Ressource Tower at Waypoint" or "Scout designated area". Using the build command on a location rather than a structure could trigger a "Build structures in designated area".
Waypoints lead us to <b>Pathfinding</b> This is actually more of a Marine HUD thing than commander interface, but IMO both go hand in hand... I don't know how players would react to it but when you introduce NPC units that require a pathfinding routine anyway why not use it for another purpose, too? When giving waypoints to Marines/Squads how about the <b>fastest route displaying on the marines minimap</b>? Maybe even on the hud itself? Personally once I know a map good enough I would want to disable this feature but for new players it might actually be a help finding their way around a map they don't know yet. Pathfinding would of course take PG connections into concideration and so on...
<b>Marine Status/Equipment</b> In Addition to the health circle I'd like to see <b>an indicator on how much ammo a marine has</b>. Also it could be nice to have some little Icon or other<b> indicator that shows the current equipment</b> of a marine without having to look at the scoreboard and searching for the player's name there. Of course most of the time you can see what equipment your marines are using on the screen just fine, but especially in darker locations this could help to decide who to med first and so on...
<b>Custom Tactical Map</b> One of the improvements in NS that i really liked was the introduction of the new minimaps that had location names in it. There have been some alternative minimap sprites that had other/additional information in them. For example the clan I used to play in used minimaps that had "zones" in it the commander would refer to. I suggest giving players <b>the ability to easily create their own tactical map</b> in addition to the normal minimap preferably using a little tool that's part of the game. The tool/editor (let's call it "War room" or "Map room" or something like that) would display a blank minimap of a map of the player's choice. Using simple Tools like a Text-Tool and a paintbrush the player can now add comments about siege spots, stracture placements, ways to ninja up to "tactical" diagrams like we seen them in some sports games. Ingame the player/commander could switch between the normal and his tactical minimap. THis might also be useable as a simple <b>notepad</b> where players can write down a build order or other important stuff to help them during the game. "Build IP - Build Armory - Set Waypoint to Lava pit - chuckle" <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<b>Commander-World-Interaction</b> Currently Commanders can push buttons, open doors or call elevators. The Cursor changes to indicate you can do something, however it would be nice to have an option to make things usable be the com stick out a little bit more (as well as I'd like to see mappers creating things the commander can use that have a more tactical influence and can not be used by the Marines on the field themselves. However - in order to promote Marine-Commander-Teamwork - it might be very cool to have Marines weld certain things (like a hydraulic system or a cable connection) in order to enable the systems fuctions for the commander to use: Marines weld data cable --> commander can use the computer system to enable/disable a forcefield.
Schnitzel, you get a cookie. Most of the ideas proposed have been discussed, and most are thought to be a good idea, such as the contextual waypointing and dynamic pathfinding. The custom tac map would be interesting, and the I totally agree with making the buttons easier to push for the commander.
I'm not as big of a fan with the forcing players to go through a tutorial. While a fairly low entry barrier, it can cause as you said Marines to have NO commander. There's nothing worse than having critical mass for a good game, then realizing no one can even get into the chair. What I would do instead is only lock the chair if there are players with the achievement. If there are none on the Marines, anyone can get in. They may still be noob, but it's better than remaking.
I have plenty of friends who casually comm and with this small barrier, wouldn't even bother to do the training. They've just learned how to be good over time, and only play during those few hours of LAN.
The other choice is the make the tutorial not too extensive. Maybe even break it up into basics and advanced sets. The basics let you in, the advanced can help make you actually good and explain the subtle points, such as how to know the range of a siege turret. That way, people can quickly grab a license in a few minutes and get back to playing.
just a design aspect no really function, let the new UI for the commander look more modern so take a look at modern OS and apps with thier rounded shapes and glassy look stick to blue cuz its the rine color but mybe some friendlier blue if the comm sticks in there for 50mins no one wants him to get depressions trough the colorsceme ^^
if had some moduls of interface enegeneering at my universaty and learned 3 simple basics
- Good overview and menus even for the handicapt and stupids of all (also symbols that declare them selv)
- good colors good contrast for longer use and mybe watch for day and night use because of the iris blending time if you hit a light or dark spot.
- keep it as simple as you can, and everybody should be able to use it ^^
La ChupacabraJoin Date: 2008-02-25Member: 63729Members
we know that:
a) there will be a buy-menu for marines b) com has no power over what weapons / gadgets marines choose (apart from unlocking/upgrading them)
what I think would be beneficial is to have a in-build mechanism that would help the comm to <b>recommend </b>(not order) the marines what weapons and/or gadgets to take (instead of having him yelling all the time through the mic), for example - to tell the marines that it would be good to have 10xHMG and 3xNade Launcher in 13xES for the next hive rush
to keep it short and simple:
a) the commanders "weapon recommendations menu" (or something along these lines) would be open by the same key as buy menu for marines, b) WR menu would look almost the same as buy menu, but instead of "BUY" there would be a "Recommend" button, each click on the weapon would be equal to recommending to have 1 marine with that weapon (or a space to put the wanted number of guns/armours), a button used to cancel previous recommendation would be handy too c) in the marine buy menu the weapon types that are currently being recommended would be highlighted (or there would be some other way of showing what is being recommended), but if the team already fits the recommendation than nothing would be highlighted (i.e. if comm only asked for 3 guys with GL, and there are 4 already, than GL would be no longer highlighted) d*) as and addition there could be Tabs like ALL, Squad 1, Squad 2 etc. if the comm has individual tactics for each of the squads, that would require separate weaponry recommendation
to sum up: - it would be a non-invasive way of commander informing his team what weaponry would best suit his current tactics, - players still have the full power over what they are buying and don't have to pay attention to the comm at all
"Uhm, yeah, I think I have to sort of disagree with you there"
While I do think it's not a bad idea per se I think it's pretty much useless. I think (or better: hope) commanding will not be a very boring thing. Setting up equipment suggestions and sending them to your troops wil take quite a bit of time and often will simply be ignored. A lot of players will buy the equipment they think is best or most fun for them. The com is just wasting his time IMHO or will get angry because his advice is ignored. If you as commander want to suggest equipment for a certain situation, use the voice com or chat... The idea would be great if the players could not buy their equipment (wich I must say I don't really like), Then it could be a list of recommendations from the com the players could chose from. But if the palyers are free to do what they want to, they will...
Another thing is that I don't know how smoothly you can create such recommendations without turning the comm UI unnecessarily complex. I bet there are ways for getting it work, but I don't know if its worth the work as Lord Schnitzel mentioned.
<!--quoteo(post=1694238:date=Nov 24 2008, 02:17 PM:name=Lord Schnitzel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lord Schnitzel @ Nov 24 2008, 02:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1694238"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Setting up equipment suggestions and sending them to your troops wil take quite a bit of time and often will simply be ignored. A lot of players will buy the equipment they think is best or most fun for them. The com is just wasting his time IMHO or will get angry because his advice is ignored. If you as commander want to suggest equipment for a certain situation, use the voice com or chat...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Something that could be capitalized upon is item limiting. The Empires mod has a system to lock down buildings prevent vehicles from being built, and potentially the commander custom building tanks. You could even only let certain players you trust build their own tanks. However, almost no one uses this feature except when saving up for a huge mass tank rush.
The reason it doesn't get used is because it's too much of a hassle to micro except for a binary on and off.
However, the idea is sound. Why let the jerk player buy a bunch of stuff and use up the res? On the other hand, why let people buy when you want to save? We don't know the res model yet, and this would be nullified if each player has individual res.
In another avenue, putting a cap on weapons is sound. If the comm doesn't want more than 3 GLs, why not let the comm cap it? If the comm wants to suggest 3 GLs, that would be more for team chat or voice, but could also be reflected in the buy menu.
The idea is to press a button, a buy menu pops up for the comm, and they can quickly adjust cap and recommended numbers. Shouldn't be too hard. A couple of plus and minus symbols. Boom, instant feedback.
La ChupacabraJoin Date: 2008-02-25Member: 63729Members
<!--quoteo(post=1694241:date=Nov 24 2008, 03:09 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bacillus @ Nov 24 2008, 03:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1694241"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Another thing is that I don't know how smoothly you can create such recommendations without turning the comm UI unnecessarily complex.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was suggesting a modified buy menu - a pop-up window that marines have, but slightly different. Don't think that it would take too much time to do... well, modify, and it wouldn't affect the complexity of UI.
And the whole point is to have a neat way to inform your troops what you want, it's not a necessity. Some comms would use it, some would rather pass on the same information just by shouting through the mic... but remember that people on servers come and go during a round - do you want to spam all the time which weapons marines should buy or concentrate on more important matters?
<!--quoteo(post=1694283:date=Nov 25 2008, 12:32 AM:name=La Chupacabra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(La Chupacabra @ Nov 25 2008, 12:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1694283"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was suggesting a modified buy menu - a pop-up window that marines have, but slightly different. Don't think that it would take too much time to do... well, modify, and it wouldn't affect the complexity of UI.
And the whole point is to have a neat way to inform your troops what you want, it's not a necessity. Some comms would use it, some would rather pass on the same information just by shouting through the mic... but remember that people on servers come and go during a round - do you want to spam all the time which weapons marines should buy or concentrate on more important matters?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The popup menu might work, but on the other hand I'd also like to see more informative waypoints and commander placed info tags on the map, so it's might be crowded with popup menus. Maybe you could fit it in a separate tab as the weapons are now in NS, that would give commander a lot better picture and control than just a NS styled popup menu.
Nevertheless, as the devs seem to be simplifying the hud quite a bit, it feels a little unnecessary to have an extra menu just for recommendations that half of the marines just ignore. Of course it depends on the overall comm hud and the role of the commander once again.
<!--quoteo(post=1694410:date=Nov 26 2008, 12:30 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bacillus @ Nov 26 2008, 12:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1694410"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The popup menu might work, but on the other hand I'd also like to see more informative waypoints and commander placed info tags on the map, so it's might be crowded with popup menus.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How exactly? I imagined explicit waypoints being a pop-up menu when you click to set a waypoint. Also, the weapon pop-up probably would be bound to a key, or maybe at worst a menu tab along the edge of the screen.
I would warn against layering menus more than 1 layer deep, 2 if you're careful. Even though it simplifies the number of choices available at once, it also makes it harder to get to the stuff you care about, plus it makes it hard to navigate. See the convoluted system Empires mod uses for voice commands.
I meant more descriptive waypoints like "Scout the area", "Cap the nodes in the area", "Hold that position", "RUSH!" and "Destroy the alien node in the location". Maybe even combinations like "Phase to location X, then move to location Y and clear the area. It's partitially handled by the waypaths, but I'd still like to give marines more info about their job on the waypoint location.
The map tags could be simple reminders like "Alien nodes there", "Hive" and "OCs". A little similar as the hostile buildings are in most RTS games after they've been covered by the fog of war. If the sound scouting is still in the game, those could be handy. Otherwise it could probably be done just like in the usual RTS games.
--
The recommendations could be in another popup menu or any part of the hud or completely hid. Any 'secret'/inaccessible menus don't sound inuitive for the new players though. However, it seems that the devs have taken a far more minimalistic approach on the player HUDs. I've got nothing against an extra menu, but I'm quite confused if the devs think it as a bigger importance than a minimap for example.
If the commander can actually limit the amount of guns on the field, the menu definitely needs to be accessible of course.
One feature that would commanding squads easier as you pan the screen through different terrains is to have the size of the marines and aliens on the screen always the same and not determined by how far they are from the screen. Same thing for important objects.
<!--quoteo(post=1694493:date=Nov 27 2008, 01:06 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bacillus @ Nov 27 2008, 01:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1694493"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The recommendations could be in another popup menu or any part of the hud or completely hid. Any 'secret'/inaccessible menus don't sound inuitive for the new players though. However, it seems that the devs have taken a far more minimalistic approach on the player HUDs. I've got nothing against an extra menu, but I'm quite confused if the devs think it as a bigger importance than a minimap for example.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I imagine you click on the map to place the waypoint, and if you hold the click a small menu pops up around the pointer. Simple, goes away when not using it, not forced to use it.
OK, but I still hope there will be queued waypointing ... nothing more annoying than telling a group to goto a waypoint, only to have them all go seperate ways (or the way that happens to be OC-spammed).
So I'd love to be able to specify with shift-clicking (just like standard RTS games) what way I want them to go.
<!--quoteo(post=1696788:date=Dec 27 2008, 01:46 PM:name=OBhave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(OBhave @ Dec 27 2008, 01:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696788"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So I'd love to be able to specify with shift-clicking (just like standard RTS games) what way I want them to go.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would be useful, even if they do have dynamic pathfinding (a la UT3 or Dead Space). That way, even after they cap the node on the way, they know where to go next.
Something that would also be useful is either a timer or a way to remove waypoints, and show current waypoints. A couple of times I lost track of a rine and they kept futilely trying to get to a waypoint I gave them 10 minutes ago that was now useless. Sup Comm allowed you to click on the unit and it would highlight the queued up waypoints, and you could also selectively move or remove waypoints. Would be a really shiny feature in NS2.
<!--quoteo(post=1696807:date=Dec 27 2008, 03:24 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(spellman23 @ Dec 27 2008, 03:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696807"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Something that would also be useful is either a timer or a way to remove waypoints, and show current waypoints. A couple of times I lost track of a rine and they kept futilely trying to get to a waypoint I gave them 10 minutes ago that was now useless. Sup Comm allowed you to click on the unit and it would highlight the queued up waypoints, and you could also selectively move or remove waypoints. Would be a really shiny feature in NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes this is an exellent point... not only does this result in what you described (rines struggling to goto a waypoint that the comm forgot about) but this can also demoralize the marines from following actual waypoints, not knowing if it's a good one or a junk one.
I hesitate to suggest that the tiny NS2 team should code fancy interface features into the game, so I guess I gravitate towards the simplest solutions, a "remove waypoint(s)" button. Combined with the "select all" button it could be very useful...
Select All + Delete waypoint(s) = "whew... now I'm sure I don't have any old junk waypoints lingering out there"
The timer thing is also nice and simple... but the timer should be quite long, or it could mess things up for the comm sometimes.
i haven't read the majority of the thread but something I'd like to see is a zoom function. To be able to adjust the camera position to lay things underneath blocking beams, bridges, ect. maybe also to alternate angles to an extent.
<!--quoteo(post=1643281:date=Aug 11 2007, 05:46 AM:name=JJJ1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JJJ1 @ Aug 11 2007, 05:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1643281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hi guys. I'm working on the NS2 commander interface at the moment, so I've created this thread to hear your thoughts in general about the NS commander experience so we can improve it as much as possible for NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is probably a year late, a buck short, but here goes.
What are some of your most memorable experiences (good or bad)? For example - what was it like the first time you stepped into the command chair?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some of my most memorable experiences involve close games, with full tech (i.e. Marines max tech w/weapons, aliens 3 hives with lifeforms), which were so rare do to the schematics of the game. Its funny how I learned how to command. Back in 1.04 I got tired of getting rolled in pubs because of bad commanding, so I learned how to do it myself. The thing that sucks about being a commander is that you can only give the order, and if its not executed then <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What do you love and/or hate about commanding?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love taking a break from the twitch side of things, I enjoy trying to come up with new tactics and strategies to find ways to destroy the other team. I LOVE improvising, (i.e. reacting to an unexpected move by the aliens). What I hate about commanding is that the interface is clunky (though, its HL1, so I'll give that a pass). and while you can customize the keys, they appear to be very difficult to manage at first. A simpler button scheme would be great. Also it would be nice to set waypoints.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe you <i>avoid </i>commanding and if so, why?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I only avoid commanding if I know that the marines will not play well, then I try to get on the aliens.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why types of features would you like to see added or removed?
Anything goes. Let's hear your thoughts!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A better customizable scheme, the ability to set way points. Also auto-hot keys would be nice to set up in a menu. What I mean by that is a player can set up their hot keys in a menu in the game and they will pop up everytime he or she commands when a particular structure is built.
For example.
I always hot key my Obs as "1" my Armory as "2" and my Arms Lab as "3". So I would set my hot keys in a menu prior to joining a game to set those up to 1, 2 and 3 respectively. When I command a game, if I build an armory, it would automatically get set to key "2" and if I build an obs key "1" etc...
I think this would be a nice little addition to NS2.
<!--quoteo(post=1697019:date=Jan 2 2009, 08:41 PM:name=Italianmagic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Italianmagic @ Jan 2 2009, 08:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1697019"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i haven't read the majority of the thread but something I'd like to see is a zoom function. To be able to adjust the camera position to lay things underneath blocking beams, bridges, ect. maybe also to alternate angles to an extent.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe Max has confirmed that the camera will be a fixed height from the map, thus no zooming. However, I don't know about rotating the view.
Comments
the most experience I got was building an ip and dropping an sg 4 myself.
also, make the chair look cooler and more original. maby some windows, a power cord to the wall, more like a desk. make it red too...
It looks like a picture both at a train station. (no offense)
- Custom colour of your UI
- Custom size of your UI
- Custom position of your UI
- Custom hotkeys: (i.e. Warcraft III / Starcraft)
q w e r
a s d f
y/z x c v
-Toggling on/off everything, if you want to.
Features:
- Add a "Supreme Commander" Minimap <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
- Add the "Supreme Commander" zoom via Mousewheel
- Shift between different levels of the map via Shift+Mousewheel so you are able to design maps with more than one level.
- The Commander might be able to take over the control of Sentries and Siege Cannons, and uses them, similar to "Dungeon Keeper" (if the commanding experience is getting too boring ?! )
- Displaying a Route for the Marines like a GPS which auto interrupts and alarms the Commander if nearby aliens are spotted by the Marine or Scanners, so the Commander knows that the Marines won't arrive in time to their Waypoints.
- The common Stuff (everything you need nowadays in a strategy game) like "Guarding", "Attack Move", "Patrol", "Hold Ground", Chaining Commands, Jump to Events via Hotkey (i.e. A marine needs HP, the Commander uses the Hotkey and auto drops a HP at the marine location), Minimaps, Zooming, Switching to PoV (of turrets, marines etc.), Beacons on the Minimap to add notes for the marines, Range Indicators for Turrets and Radar, Radar Cloaking, Fog of War, with easy and intelligent clicking or keybinds.
- Fog of War, updating the map whenever a marine goes by, so once he spots an alien RT and dies, the Commander is able to see it on its map (with fog of war over it) and if the marine comes along a second time and spots some attack chambers added to the RT, the Commanders Map gets updated again. [the common stuff <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> ]
- Chaining Events together, 'Click' on Marine => 'Shift Click' Move here, Move there, Build structure after you arrived. (Spawns a Structure automatically, after the Marine arrived at his last Waypoint, also needs to "alarm" the commander, if the Marine didn't make it, or is under attack).
- If you form squads, there should be a small "Marine" (or Armslab, or Sensory, ...) added to your UI, with multiple health bars, reflecting the health of the whole squad.
- If you get teamed up by the Commander, the Interface of the Marine should display the Other Teammates just like a Group System in any MMORPG. One person of the Squad automatically becomes the Squad Leader, a Squad Leader might get some HP or Armor boost, and the Aliens and the Marines should be able to recognize a Squad Leader (in favor of killing / protecting him), one Squad Leader is allowed per X Number of Marines, so you can't boost all your Marines ...
- the Alien Counterpart to this could be something like bonus damage, movement, ... if you stick together, depending on your "Alien-Squad" (Morale Immunity to Masses of Orks in Dawn of War or like firepower bonus for the Red Guard in C&C - Generals)
- Squad respawn problem, can be solved in two ways: The dead Marines spawn near the location of the Squad Leader (Dawn of War ... Reinforcment) this shouldn't be enabled in the early game, but can be enabled by teching. The other way of solving the Squad Problem is that the Squad has to die completly and respawns together ...
Sorry for the strange writing and formatting (couldn't stop pressing random shift (I'm from Germany ... -.-)
Just take a look at all those strategy games around, new ones and old ones and try to compare them with one another and you get a feeling of what is good or useless for your game (if you have the time ofcourse <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> )
Basically I would combine the UI from Warcraft III with the UI of Supreme Commander, and add some MMORPG Interface for the marines and aliens to recognize their teammates status easily. Also add in some special ideas from various games, like the respawning to the squad leader, probably for both alien and marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are two theories on this, one is the Wow theory to let your user do anything and everything to the UI, and the other is the SC2 theory to lock it down completely. The lock down is for control purposes and there's some benefit to it in competitive settings. However a changeable UI would be more "dynamic" and fit better for modding.
I'd say lock down the UI in NS2 Core, but design it with the purpose of being modifiable/extendible for mods.
A lot of the other ideas are good and have been suggested before. You probably won't be able to zoom though.
I'd say lock down the UI in NS2 Core, but design it with the purpose of being modifiable/extendible for mods.
A lot of the other ideas are good and have been suggested before. You probably won't be able to zoom though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If my memory serves me right, Blizzard worked for a very long time to get the UI secure and stable with such modifiability. I don't know if its different in NS' case.
I'd say lock down the UI in NS2 Core, but design it with the purpose of being modifiable/extendible for mods.
A lot of the other ideas are good and have been suggested before. You probably won't be able to zoom though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe somewhere the devs said there won't be zoom. Someone fact check me.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=103925&hl=nail" target="_blank">Truth.</a>
A) Allowing me to focus on my marines, not my base. (reducing need to click on structures to tech)
B) Either replacing medspam altogether or making a cooldown on it... and maybe removingt/modifying lerk gas or whatever. At any rate, as things are now, many games end with everyone on the rine team pissed off that the commander isn't making them immortal with his zero-cooldown medpacks. The current system breeds silly expectations or massive res wasted on medpacks. .... I'm still not against the comm being able to influence a battle directly with buffs and such but there should be a damn limit on them so that the comm doesn't take on the responsibilities of a god while still having to be stingy. It's a morale killer.
C) Remove the current babysitting-the-pile of weapons thing going on... reason: see item A. And also it's very annoying for both comm and rine when the comm is really busy and can't drop weapons after a rine has spawned, thus requiring waiting or running out ill-equipped. The best solution I can think of is: The comm buys weapons and they are stored the armory or whatever cache. Then people that the comm has checkboxed as trusted to be thrifty and effective with the weapons get to remove them from storage. ... the comm probably should be able to see a log of the last 20 weapon withdrawals to counter abuse and/or silly repeated grabbing and dying.
Or, if you're against the whole "discrimination" thing: Just let the comm buy weapons and they will be stored in the armory (default armory if there are two, I suppose).
D) Being able to queue waypoints.
Maybe some voice binds for the commander... only the marines have them now but the comm could be able to say things (and they'd be restricted to his current selection of players) ... things like "INCOMING", "good work", "halt", "defend this area" . ... and then maybe some more area specific sayings than just "move to waypoint, and "weld target at waypoint") ... but that's just a maybe, as personal voice comm is already serving these needs for all that have a mic.
<b>Commanding Experience</b>
I first hopped into the chair on halloween 2002. The good thing was, that I could learn and improve from the beginning. As my Marines learned how to fight, I learned how to comm. Nowadays new players don't have that luxury - if they do anything that does not follow the typical scheme on the server he'll probably get flamed and/or ejected. I think we all want NS2 to be around for a looong time this issue needs to be adressed. Therefore I think <b>a Singleplayer Commanding Tutorial is a MUST</b> (As well as a short, preferably story-driven FPS-Tutorial for Marines and Kharaa).
I'd go so far as to FORCE players to finish the Commanding Tutorial before jumping into the chair.
I'm all for little ACHIEVEMENTS for players. Make "TSA Commander License" such an Achievement that's unlocked once you finished the Tutorial. If you want to connect to a server without having the "Com License" tell the player he won't be able to use the comchair, connect anyway? ok.
It actually MIGHT lead to a situation (shortly after release) where the Marines have no player with a com lisence. The server code should then overwrite the rule for this round.
<b>Interface</b>
I think the current interface is quite intuitive but far from perfect. The SC-like layout is common in most RTS so it's easy to find your way through the menus. However I dislike having to scroll to my base, select the buildings one after another to see how far my researching is done, start new research and so on. I'd like to have a small <b>Building Icon</b> in the top right or top left corner for every building that is capable of researching/upgrading. <b>Autoassigning a hotkey</b> should be optional (I'd use it). Each of the small Icons should have a little <b>progress bar</b> showing the current research. A <b>single click on the icon selects the structure</b>, allowing you to start/stop upgrading, a <b>double click should select and jump to the structure</b>. Structures under attack should have a <b>flashing icon</b>. The "pulsating" of the icon should be <b>depending on the ammount of damage</b> the structure is taking. For example an RT being parasited would not even trigger a message (however a little green marking on the icon might be a usefull thing - not sure about that), if a Skulk is biting a structure it would flash in a slow but steady way and above a certain threashold the Icon would flash faster or simply stay red. This brings me to the computer voice wich I think should have <b>messages for every type of structure and upgrade (and amount of damage)</b>. For example it should not simply be "structure is under attack" but something like "Armslabs is under heavy attack" (when the damage/time is above a certain limit), "Jetpeck technology research finished", and so on. This would help me keep track of the overall status and/or evaluate the situation faster and better (especially when i'm currently busy medding my Marines).
<b>Waypoints</b>
I personally think that giving orders via voice comm will always be superior to using waypoints. However <b>not everybody wants to or can use voice communication</b> so waypoints have to be as usefull as possible. Currently a right click will automatically chose the order for you. Click on an unbuild RT and it will say "Build structure at waypoint", click on a built RT and the order will be to defent it. While I think <b>contextual orders are fine, I don't think they are flexible enough</b>. I suggest to have a simple right click issue the standard contextual order just as it is now, If a player <b>holds down right mouse button for a second have a short list pop up that the commander can chose the order from</b>. The list of orders should include the classic "move", "build", "defend", "weld" and "attack" <b>and also some more strategic ones like "sneak to", "scout" and "regroup at"</b>. Combined with <b>waypoint cueing</b> This could allow more compley orders like: "Regroups at [Generator Room]. Build RT at [Cargo Bay]. Sneak to [Engine Room]".
Players should have a little <b>list on their HUD that shows their next 3 orders</b>, so they do not only can follow orders but <b>get a bigger picture of the commander's strategy</b> - wich is an important thing to make the Marines actually subordinate (in a positive teamplay-ish way).
As with the damage/upgrade voice messages <b>the orders should use the actual names of structures in their voice message</b> for the Marines. Location names of course can not be prerecorded unless you want to pay the voice actor again once you release the first official map pack - wich I hope will come at some time - so I suggest using "area" and "waypoint" for it in the voice message; An order would then say "Build RT at [Generator Room]" while the voice would say "Build Ressource Tower at Waypoint" or "Scout designated area". Using the build command on a location rather than a structure could trigger a "Build structures in designated area".
Waypoints lead us to <b>Pathfinding</b>
This is actually more of a Marine HUD thing than commander interface, but IMO both go hand in hand...
I don't know how players would react to it but when you introduce NPC units that require a pathfinding routine anyway why not use it for another purpose, too? When giving waypoints to Marines/Squads how about the <b>fastest route displaying on the marines minimap</b>? Maybe even on the hud itself? Personally once I know a map good enough I would want to disable this feature but for new players it might actually be a help finding their way around a map they don't know yet. Pathfinding would of course take PG connections into concideration and so on...
<b>Marine Status/Equipment</b>
In Addition to the health circle I'd like to see <b>an indicator on how much ammo a marine has</b>. Also it could be nice to have some little Icon or other<b> indicator that shows the current equipment</b> of a marine without having to look at the scoreboard and searching for the player's name there. Of course most of the time you can see what equipment your marines are using on the screen just fine, but especially in darker locations this could help to decide who to med first and so on...
<b>Custom Tactical Map</b>
One of the improvements in NS that i really liked was the introduction of the new minimaps that had location names in it. There have been some alternative minimap sprites that had other/additional information in them. For example the clan I used to play in used minimaps that had "zones" in it the commander would refer to. I suggest giving players <b>the ability to easily create their own tactical map</b> in addition to the normal minimap preferably using a little tool that's part of the game. The tool/editor (let's call it "War room" or "Map room" or something like that) would display a blank minimap of a map of the player's choice. Using simple Tools like a Text-Tool and a paintbrush the player can now add comments about siege spots, stracture placements, ways to ninja up to "tactical" diagrams like we seen them in some sports games. Ingame the player/commander could switch between the normal and his tactical minimap. THis might also be useable as a simple <b>notepad</b> where players can write down a build order or other important stuff to help them during the game. "Build IP - Build Armory - Set Waypoint to Lava pit - chuckle" <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<b>Commander-World-Interaction</b>
Currently Commanders can push buttons, open doors or call elevators. The Cursor changes to indicate you can do something, however it would be nice to have an option to make things usable be the com stick out a little bit more (as well as I'd like to see mappers creating things the commander can use that have a more tactical influence and can not be used by the Marines on the field themselves. However - in order to promote Marine-Commander-Teamwork - it might be very cool to have Marines weld certain things (like a hydraulic system or a cable connection) in order to enable the systems fuctions for the commander to use: Marines weld data cable --> commander can use the computer system to enable/disable a forcefield.
Hope you like some of these points.
Regards from Austria
Schnitzel
I'm not as big of a fan with the forcing players to go through a tutorial. While a fairly low entry barrier, it can cause as you said Marines to have NO commander. There's nothing worse than having critical mass for a good game, then realizing no one can even get into the chair. What I would do instead is only lock the chair if there are players with the achievement. If there are none on the Marines, anyone can get in. They may still be noob, but it's better than remaking.
I have plenty of friends who casually comm and with this small barrier, wouldn't even bother to do the training. They've just learned how to be good over time, and only play during those few hours of LAN.
The other choice is the make the tutorial not too extensive. Maybe even break it up into basics and advanced sets. The basics let you in, the advanced can help make you actually good and explain the subtle points, such as how to know the range of a siege turret. That way, people can quickly grab a license in a few minutes and get back to playing.
if had some moduls of interface enegeneering at my universaty and learned 3 simple basics
- Good overview and menus even for the handicapt and stupids of all (also symbols that declare them selv)
- good colors good contrast for longer use and mybe watch for day and night use because of the iris blending time if you hit a light or dark spot.
- keep it as simple as you can, and everybody should be able to use it ^^
a) there will be a buy-menu for marines
b) com has no power over what weapons / gadgets marines choose (apart from unlocking/upgrading them)
what I think would be beneficial is to have a in-build mechanism that would help the comm to <b>recommend </b>(not order) the marines what weapons and/or gadgets to take (instead of having him yelling all the time through the mic), for example - to tell the marines that it would be good to have 10xHMG and 3xNade Launcher in 13xES for the next hive rush
to keep it short and simple:
a) the commanders "weapon recommendations menu" (or something along these lines) would be open by the same key as buy menu for marines,
b) WR menu would look almost the same as buy menu, but instead of "BUY" there would be a "Recommend" button, each click on the weapon would be equal to recommending to have 1 marine with that weapon (or a space to put the wanted number of guns/armours), a button used to cancel previous recommendation would be handy too
c) in the marine buy menu the weapon types that are currently being recommended would be highlighted (or there would be some other way of showing what is being recommended), but if the team already fits the recommendation than nothing would be highlighted (i.e. if comm only asked for 3 guys with GL, and there are 4 already, than GL would be no longer highlighted)
d*) as and addition there could be Tabs like ALL, Squad 1, Squad 2 etc. if the comm has individual tactics for each of the squads, that would require separate weaponry recommendation
something like that:
<a href="http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jndkjsddcs7.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2137/jndkjsddcs7.th.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a><a href="http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php" target="_blank"><img src="http://img222.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
to sum up:
- it would be a non-invasive way of commander informing his team what weaponry would best suit his current tactics,
- players still have the full power over what they are buying and don't have to pay attention to the comm at all
I think that's a good idea. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I'm glad you like it.
While I do think it's not a bad idea per se I think it's pretty much useless. I think (or better: hope) commanding will not be a very boring thing. Setting up equipment suggestions and sending them to your troops wil take quite a bit of time and often will simply be ignored. A lot of players will buy the equipment they think is best or most fun for them. The com is just wasting his time IMHO or will get angry because his advice is ignored. If you as commander want to suggest equipment for a certain situation, use the voice com or chat...
The idea would be great if the players could not buy their equipment (wich I must say I don't really like), Then it could be a list of recommendations from the com the players could chose from. But if the palyers are free to do what they want to, they will...
Schnitzel
Something that could be capitalized upon is item limiting. The Empires mod has a system to lock down buildings prevent vehicles from being built, and potentially the commander custom building tanks. You could even only let certain players you trust build their own tanks. However, almost no one uses this feature except when saving up for a huge mass tank rush.
The reason it doesn't get used is because it's too much of a hassle to micro except for a binary on and off.
However, the idea is sound. Why let the jerk player buy a bunch of stuff and use up the res? On the other hand, why let people buy when you want to save? We don't know the res model yet, and this would be nullified if each player has individual res.
In another avenue, putting a cap on weapons is sound. If the comm doesn't want more than 3 GLs, why not let the comm cap it? If the comm wants to suggest 3 GLs, that would be more for team chat or voice, but could also be reflected in the buy menu.
The idea is to press a button, a buy menu pops up for the comm, and they can quickly adjust cap and recommended numbers. Shouldn't be too hard. A couple of plus and minus symbols. Boom, instant feedback.
I was suggesting a modified buy menu - a pop-up window that marines have, but slightly different. Don't think that it would take too much time to do... well, modify, and it wouldn't affect the complexity of UI.
And the whole point is to have a neat way to inform your troops what you want, it's not a necessity. Some comms would use it, some would rather pass on the same information just by shouting through the mic... but remember that people on servers come and go during a round - do you want to spam all the time which weapons marines should buy or concentrate on more important matters?
And the whole point is to have a neat way to inform your troops what you want, it's not a necessity. Some comms would use it, some would rather pass on the same information just by shouting through the mic... but remember that people on servers come and go during a round - do you want to spam all the time which weapons marines should buy or concentrate on more important matters?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The popup menu might work, but on the other hand I'd also like to see more informative waypoints and commander placed info tags on the map, so it's might be crowded with popup menus. Maybe you could fit it in a separate tab as the weapons are now in NS, that would give commander a lot better picture and control than just a NS styled popup menu.
Nevertheless, as the devs seem to be simplifying the hud quite a bit, it feels a little unnecessary to have an extra menu just for recommendations that half of the marines just ignore. Of course it depends on the overall comm hud and the role of the commander once again.
How exactly? I imagined explicit waypoints being a pop-up menu when you click to set a waypoint. Also, the weapon pop-up probably would be bound to a key, or maybe at worst a menu tab along the edge of the screen.
I would warn against layering menus more than 1 layer deep, 2 if you're careful. Even though it simplifies the number of choices available at once, it also makes it harder to get to the stuff you care about, plus it makes it hard to navigate. See the convoluted system Empires mod uses for voice commands.
The map tags could be simple reminders like "Alien nodes there", "Hive" and "OCs". A little similar as the hostile buildings are in most RTS games after they've been covered by the fog of war. If the sound scouting is still in the game, those could be handy. Otherwise it could probably be done just like in the usual RTS games.
--
The recommendations could be in another popup menu or any part of the hud or completely hid. Any 'secret'/inaccessible menus don't sound inuitive for the new players though. However, it seems that the devs have taken a far more minimalistic approach on the player HUDs. I've got nothing against an extra menu, but I'm quite confused if the devs think it as a bigger importance than a minimap for example.
If the commander can actually limit the amount of guns on the field, the menu definitely needs to be accessible of course.
I imagine you click on the map to place the waypoint, and if you hold the click a small menu pops up around the pointer. Simple, goes away when not using it, not forced to use it.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=105373" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=105373</a>
OK, but I still hope there will be queued waypointing ... nothing more annoying than telling a group to goto a waypoint, only to have them all go seperate ways (or the way that happens to be OC-spammed).
So I'd love to be able to specify with shift-clicking (just like standard RTS games) what way I want them to go.
...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
do not pimp your own threads in other threads without good reason
That would be useful, even if they do have dynamic pathfinding (a la UT3 or Dead Space). That way, even after they cap the node on the way, they know where to go next.
Something that would also be useful is either a timer or a way to remove waypoints, and show current waypoints. A couple of times I lost track of a rine and they kept futilely trying to get to a waypoint I gave them 10 minutes ago that was now useless. Sup Comm allowed you to click on the unit and it would highlight the queued up waypoints, and you could also selectively move or remove waypoints. Would be a really shiny feature in NS2.
Yes this is an exellent point... not only does this result in what you described (rines struggling to goto a waypoint that the comm forgot about) but this can also demoralize the marines from following actual waypoints, not knowing if it's a good one or a junk one.
I hesitate to suggest that the tiny NS2 team should code fancy interface features into the game, so I guess I gravitate towards the simplest solutions, a "remove waypoint(s)" button. Combined with the "select all" button it could be very useful...
Select All + Delete waypoint(s) = "whew... now I'm sure I don't have any old junk waypoints lingering out there"
The timer thing is also nice and simple... but the timer should be quite long, or it could mess things up for the comm sometimes.
This is probably a year late, a buck short, but here goes.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ask yourselves questions like:
What are some of your most memorable experiences (good or bad)? For example - what was it like the first time you stepped into the command chair?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some of my most memorable experiences involve close games, with full tech (i.e. Marines max tech w/weapons, aliens 3 hives with lifeforms), which were so rare do to the schematics of the game. Its funny how I learned how to command. Back in 1.04 I got tired of getting rolled in pubs because of bad commanding, so I learned how to do it myself. The thing that sucks about being a commander is that you can only give the order, and if its not executed then <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What do you love and/or hate about commanding?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love taking a break from the twitch side of things, I enjoy trying to come up with new tactics and strategies to find ways to destroy the other team. I LOVE improvising, (i.e. reacting to an unexpected move by the aliens). What I hate about commanding is that the interface is clunky (though, its HL1, so I'll give that a pass). and while you can customize the keys, they appear to be very difficult to manage at first. A simpler button scheme would be great. Also it would be nice to set waypoints.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe you <i>avoid </i>commanding and if so, why?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I only avoid commanding if I know that the marines will not play well, then I try to get on the aliens.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why types of features would you like to see added or removed?
Anything goes. Let's hear your thoughts!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A better customizable scheme, the ability to set way points. Also auto-hot keys would be nice to set up in a menu. What I mean by that is a player can set up their hot keys in a menu in the game and they will pop up everytime he or she commands when a particular structure is built.
For example.
I always hot key my Obs as "1" my Armory as "2" and my Arms Lab as "3". So I would set my hot keys in a menu prior to joining a game to set those up to 1, 2 and 3 respectively. When I command a game, if I build an armory, it would automatically get set to key "2" and if I build an obs key "1" etc...
I think this would be a nice little addition to NS2.
I believe Max has confirmed that the camera will be a fixed height from the map, thus no zooming. However, I don't know about rotating the view.