<!--quoteo(post=1642934:date=Aug 9 2007, 08:34 AM:name=asmodee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(asmodee @ Aug 9 2007, 08:34 AM) [snapback]1642934[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> What you don't realize however, is that you are in the minority. Many experienced players are simply turned off of giving advice because the VAST MAJORITY of pub players that I (and others who) try to give hints to react harshly to it, like you're insulting them or something.
Example:
--asmodee's example here-- <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not a clanner, but I have had similar situations with teaching. What you have to do is just learn to ignore the bad ones. If they don't want advice, don't give it. You can usually tell (if with voice chat) within about 30 seconds of talking if they are going to be receptive to advice or not. If they start to edge towards flaming or whatever, just ignore, and mute.
Patience is the key to not only learning, but teaching as well.
The trouble is that everyone (as this thread clearly shows) is entrenched in their own opinions, and this is because there is no new blood coming into the game either through the competitive or pub scene.
I am a pubber only, not that I'd necessarily rule out competitive play in the future, and I see the same people all the time regardless of where I go to play. Unfortunately within all these people (and again somewhat shown on this thread) the most vocal minority form the stereotype for everyone else in their grouping.
What we need is more players actually coming into NS, new players being confronted with a friendly pub scene that clanners take part in, and being offered advice in a friendly manner is what is needed to start bridging some gaps. Unfortunately I have to believe that asmodee's attitude is a severe minority, not only amongst the competitive scene but also the pubbing scene, where people have played this game for so long that everyone, regardless of why they play, gets angry for no good reason at new players. I also feel trepidation on occasions where I could be giving advice to not so hot players in case all that comes from it is an argument that is going to sully my experience in the short hours I can currently play.
I like the OP's idea, I think it's a better way of thinking about nurturing the competitive scene, but so are healing rifts with communities. I'm not going to say pubbers are all innocent of anything but Puzl is right when he says that if competitive NS is to survive then it is competitive players that need to look at what's going on and what needs to change, which is why I commend the OP.
I play on Yoclan and I find it annoying that on this very thread they're referenced as being people that are anti-the clan scene. Maybe they are, I don't know...which is surprising since I've been playing on their servers on off since 2002 and haven't heard any sustained abuse against the competitive scene. I also don't believe that all pub scenes are negative by definition, regular players always playing at the same time on the same pubs have essentially become low level competitive players at least. If I play on servers like Yoclans at a certain time I know I'll know and be comfortable with the abilities of at least 80% of the people on the server, with the games being played fairly competently.
So again, if some pub servers are already acting like this, where people are regularly playing at times with people they know then the gap between the two groups is a lot smaller than some people are making out, if only some differences could be resolved on both sides.
<!--quoteo(post=1642604:date=Aug 7 2007, 02:36 PM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tjosan @ Aug 7 2007, 02:36 PM) [snapback]1642604[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I hate to be a nag but a sentence should generally start with a capital letter and end with a punctuation mark, groups of punctuation marks should be in multiples of three or in singles, and 'figgure' isn't a word. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I didn't realise this was a professional forum.
Hate 2b a nag bt its nice to just type without having to FINK about wat YOR typing too much because U know the peepz on the other side have enough brain cells to figgure out what you're trying to say.
Did you struggle to compute? If so.. I'm sorry, maybe you should pay less attention to the details and concentrate on the overall.
back on topic -
I taught tevinhead how to bunnyhop, biggest regret of my life <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />.
Clanners shouldn't need to tempt pubbers into clan play, pubbers can easily group together and form a clan, do it on your own terms and for your own reasons.. this thread is just a solution for people with less time on their hands.
<!--quoteo(post=1642760:date=Aug 8 2007, 07:47 AM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tjosan @ Aug 8 2007, 07:47 AM) [snapback]1642760[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> That's a stylistic issue, the solution to which has varied alot throughout the history of modern English literature. I for example have learned my written English by reading really old and boring books. In most of those books sentences that are long and overly complicated exist in abundance. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> a lot. 2 words
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1639642:date=Jul 19 2007, 12:26 PM:name=MamboKing)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MamboKing @ Jul 19 2007, 12:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1639642"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think one of the key things as far as making a clan work is to get 10+ semi-active people and hope that 6 of them can play on match day. Also make sure your matches end before 10:00 PM so no one misses Battlestar Galactica.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, how many Sphere matches ended due to me saying "###### guys BSG is on, recycling base" and going to watch it.
I would have put the emphasis on the second line of your summary. To me it looks like the clan scene is the one looking for help, and therefore the onus to change is on you, not the pub scene. <a href="http://happywhels.net/">happy wheels</a>
I tried clanning a couple of times, but quit both times due to an intolerable level of vulgar abuse and racism I had to suffer through ( which wasn't directed at me, but that makes it no less offensive ). I've tried clanning, gathers etc and I still prefer pubbing any day.
and about 5% of the populatoin can do that... so lets not do anything else and wait for ns to die.. GOOD IDEA
If you'd bother to read the whole post you'd realise you're not saying something relevant to the situation i'm resolving. You're just talking out your ass.
I would have put the emphasis on the second line of your summary. To me it looks like the clan scene is the one looking for help, and therefore the onus to change is on you, not the pub scene. <a href="http://happywhels.net/">happy wheels</a>
I tried clanning a couple of times, but quit both times due to an intolerable level of vulgar abuse and racism I had to suffer through ( which wasn't directed at me, but that makes it no less offensive ). I've tried clanning, gathers etc and I still prefer pubbing any day.
and about 5% of the populatoin can do that... so lets not do anything else and wait for ns to die.. GOOD IDEA
If you'd bother to read the whole post you'd realise you're not saying something relevant to the situation i'm resolving. You're just talking out your ass.
Dude this thread has been literally... literally been dead for a decade. To the fucking month. Let it rest.
I think farm teams and pugs are the best way to go tho. The point I am making is that for every experienced player sick of people who rudely reject an offer of help.
Comments
What you don't realize however, is that you are in the minority. Many experienced players are simply turned off of giving advice because the VAST MAJORITY of pub players that I (and others who) try to give hints to react harshly to it, like you're insulting them or something.
Example:
--asmodee's example here--
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not a clanner, but I have had similar situations with teaching. What you have to do is just learn to ignore the bad ones. If they don't want advice, don't give it. You can usually tell (if with voice chat) within about 30 seconds of talking if they are going to be receptive to advice or not. If they start to edge towards flaming or whatever, just ignore, and mute.
Patience is the key to not only learning, but teaching as well.
I am a pubber only, not that I'd necessarily rule out competitive play in the future, and I see the same people all the time regardless of where I go to play. Unfortunately within all these people (and again somewhat shown on this thread) the most vocal minority form the stereotype for everyone else in their grouping.
What we need is more players actually coming into NS, new players being confronted with a friendly pub scene that clanners take part in, and being offered advice in a friendly manner is what is needed to start bridging some gaps. Unfortunately I have to believe that asmodee's attitude is a severe minority, not only amongst the competitive scene but also the pubbing scene, where people have played this game for so long that everyone, regardless of why they play, gets angry for no good reason at new players. I also feel trepidation on occasions where I could be giving advice to not so hot players in case all that comes from it is an argument that is going to sully my experience in the short hours I can currently play.
I like the OP's idea, I think it's a better way of thinking about nurturing the competitive scene, but so are healing rifts with communities. I'm not going to say pubbers are all innocent of anything but Puzl is right when he says that if competitive NS is to survive then it is competitive players that need to look at what's going on and what needs to change, which is why I commend the OP.
I play on Yoclan and I find it annoying that on this very thread they're referenced as being people that are anti-the clan scene. Maybe they are, I don't know...which is surprising since I've been playing on their servers on off since 2002 and haven't heard any sustained abuse against the competitive scene. I also don't believe that all pub scenes are negative by definition, regular players always playing at the same time on the same pubs have essentially become low level competitive players at least. If I play on servers like Yoclans at a certain time I know I'll know and be comfortable with the abilities of at least 80% of the people on the server, with the games being played fairly competently.
So again, if some pub servers are already acting like this, where people are regularly playing at times with people they know then the gap between the two groups is a lot smaller than some people are making out, if only some differences could be resolved on both sides.
I hate to be a nag but a sentence should generally start with a capital letter and end with a punctuation mark, groups of punctuation marks should be in multiples of three or in singles, and 'figgure' isn't a word.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't realise this was a professional forum.
Hate 2b a nag bt its nice to just type without having to FINK about wat YOR typing too much because U know the peepz on the other side have enough brain cells to figgure out what you're trying to say.
Did you struggle to compute? If so.. I'm sorry, maybe you should pay less attention to the details and concentrate on the overall.
back on topic -
I taught tevinhead how to bunnyhop, biggest regret of my life <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />.
Clanners shouldn't need to tempt pubbers into clan play, pubbers can easily group together and form a clan, do it on your own terms and for your own reasons.. this thread is just a solution for people with less time on their hands.
<!--quoteo(post=1642760:date=Aug 8 2007, 07:47 AM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tjosan @ Aug 8 2007, 07:47 AM) [snapback]1642760[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
That's a stylistic issue, the solution to which has varied alot throughout the history of modern English literature. I for example have learned my written English by reading really old and boring books. In most of those books sentences that are long and overly complicated exist in abundance.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
a lot. 2 words
Ah, how many Sphere matches ended due to me saying "###### guys BSG is on, recycling base" and going to watch it.
and about 5% of the populatoin can do that... so lets not do anything else and wait for ns to die.. GOOD IDEA
If you'd bother to read the whole post you'd realise you're not saying something relevant to the situation i'm resolving. You're just talking out your ass.
Dude this thread has been literally... literally been dead for a decade. To the fucking month. Let it rest.