aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Source just looks outdated, but the thing that worries me most is sources horrible netcode and hit detection.
Im still fine with it though as long as ns2 is made.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Source still looks pretty decent, episode 2 will improve upon that. Although I'm wondering if they are just going to rewrite the netcode from scratch for this game since they have the source code now.
Doom3 looks wrong because: It has all shiny surfaces but no light is being reflected from them.
The source engine lacked some features that made it ideal for all kinds of things, but with episode2 it looks like they made a perfect blend between good-looking and support for older computers. IMHO the half life engine looks more realistic because the lighting is smoother and bounces off surfaces. I don't mind if it's pre-calculated now that they said they will release a Hammer update that makes the previews better. Before it was a pain to guess how much a light would lit the room.
Doom3 is all shiny because every surface as a specular map, hence the shinyness. I've yet to see this EP2 upgraded, dynamic lighting. I've watched the videos and theres very little difference too me.
<!--quoteo(post=1633700:date=Jun 15 2007, 01:22 PM:name=RSX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RSX @ Jun 15 2007, 01:22 PM) [snapback]1633700[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Doom3 is all shiny because every surface as a specular map, hence the shinyness. I've yet to see this EP2 upgraded, dynamic lighting. I've watched the videos and theres very little difference too me. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, you didn't look close enough. Watch the clip where the vortigaunt in the caves attacks the antlions with an energy beam. That shows off the self shadowing and dynamic lighting pretty well.
<!--quoteo(post=1633700:date=Jun 15 2007, 09:22 PM:name=RSX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RSX @ Jun 15 2007, 09:22 PM) [snapback]1633700[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Doom3 is all shiny because every surface as a specular map, hence the shinyness. I've yet to see this EP2 upgraded, dynamic lighting. I've watched the videos and theres very little difference too me. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1633841:date=Jun 16 2007, 02:40 PM:name=RSX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RSX @ Jun 16 2007, 02:40 PM) [snapback]1633841[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Nice, makes you wonder why that wasn't implemented in the first place, back in 04. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it's
A. a lot of work
and
B. something that makes any computer that isn't high end weep for mercy
What would you rather Valve spend time, money, and manpower on? Gameplay or engine improvements that benefit everyone who plays, or fancy engine stuff that only rich people, or people with rich parents, can enjoy? I know my computer would keel over if I tried that kind of lighting on it; it can barely choke Quake IV down at super low details at 640x480. I can run Source at high detail with HDR at much better resolutions; lighting like this would be out of the question, though.
KassingerShades of greyJoin Date: 2002-02-20Member: 229Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1633876:date=Jun 17 2007, 06:37 AM:name=WaterBoy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(WaterBoy @ Jun 17 2007, 06:37 AM) [snapback]1633876[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> How did they get access to that?
Or was it a mod? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some tech release at some gaming convention meh thinks.
It would have some bearing, since Valve's made it pretty clear that their engine comes with fully access to the code, a built in digital distribution channel (with good security and pirating preventative measures), and the base code is being updated on a regular basis. (Although, most engines go through a number of iterations...)
Just from that, I'd have gone with source, without even mentioning the teams experience with their prior engine.
Also, doom 3 never managed to impress me. It might have been a technically better engine, but the art direction kinda sank it's visual appeal in comparison to Half Life 2. (I liked D3, and it's visuals, but I liked HL2 better.)
<!--quoteo(post=1634073:date=Jun 17 2007, 04:20 PM:name=bassport)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bassport @ Jun 17 2007, 04:20 PM) [snapback]1634073[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> They should use lighting etc. for NS2, it would add so much suspense and immersion! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The alternative would be to have the entire game be 100% dark which I don't think anyone would enjoy.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The alternative would be to have the entire game be 100% dark which I don't think anyone would enjoy<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if no lights are added the map would be fullbright when played <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1634086:date=Jun 17 2007, 07:19 PM:name=Reeke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Reeke @ Jun 17 2007, 07:19 PM) [snapback]1634086[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> if no lights are added the map would be fullbright when played <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Like a siege map!
douchebagatronCustom member titleJoin Date: 2003-12-20Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1633906:date=Jun 16 2007, 09:52 PM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kabab @ Jun 16 2007, 09:52 PM) [snapback]1633906[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You need to separate the art from the engine many people judge the engine based on the artwork not the actual engine..
I personally think Source is one flaky engine just look at how many patches have been released compared to Quake4.
I bet the choice of engine had more to do with licensing charges and user base then technology. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the amount of patches released has nothing to do with the quality of the engine. all it says is that the developers are more involved with working on their engine, instead of leaving it alone. look at most EA games, each one has like 2 or 3 patches, if that. does that make them the best engines ever?
the lack of patches for games is most likely because it costs more to make the patch than its worth to fix the problem. with steam and hl2 its much less expensive because there is already a delivery system set up, so everything is automatic. also many patches are adding features, not just fixing problems.
source was designed as an engine that could improve, so it wouldnt become obsolete. the adding of dynamic shadows is a perfect example of how this is possible, and the amount of patches is a perfect example of how valve is constantly working on making source a better engine.
it might not have all the nifty features like full dynamic lighting and the sort like other engines do, but i believe it is the best engine available. it comes with a delivery system, its constantly improving, its very reliable, widely used, and gives the freedom to go in the direction of almost any art style or technology.
look at might and magic, i was quite impressed with how well the source engine handled melee combat, as well as the medeival art style. and im sure ns2 will amaze me even more with new technologies and an incredible art style.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1634091:date=Jun 18 2007, 10:56 AM:name=6john)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(6john @ Jun 18 2007, 10:56 AM) [snapback]1634091[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> look at might and magic, i was quite impressed with how well the source engine handled melee combat, as well as the medeival art style. and im sure ns2 will amaze me even more with new technologies and an incredible art style. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats very true, you'd barely notice it was the source engine. I'm sure NS will be even more impressive <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> especially when you consider that even ns1 isn't doesnt really resemble hl1 other than the menus
<!--quoteo(post=1634086:date=Jun 17 2007, 05:19 PM:name=Reeke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Reeke @ Jun 17 2007, 05:19 PM) [snapback]1634086[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> if no lights are added the map would be fullbright when played <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's if no lights are added. I was talking about a lack of <i>lighting</i>, like, no lighting engine at all.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the amount of patches released has nothing to do with the quality of the engine. all it says is that the developers are more involved with working on their engine, instead of leaving it alone. look at most EA games, each one has like 2 or 3 patches, if that. does that make them the best engines ever? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe thats because EA don't give a ###### about a game once its been released. I mean look at bf2, bug ridden from the start, and after a couple of patches, and its still the same.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the lack of patches for games is most likely because it costs more to make the patch than its worth to fix the problem. with steam and hl2 its much less expensive because there is already a delivery system set up, so everything is automatic. also many patches are adding features, not just fixing problems.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why would it be less expensive for valve? I'm sure the costs go into developing the patch, not how it is delivered too the end user.
<!--quoteo(post=1634110:date=Jun 18 2007, 06:09 AM:name=WaterBoy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(WaterBoy @ Jun 18 2007, 06:09 AM) [snapback]1634110[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Can you imagine how cool dynamic shadows would look if they were emmited from the light of an operational phase-gate?
/fap. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> All I'm seeing is my graphics card falling to its knees, tears streaming down its face as it raises its hand toward the skies in silent pleas.
<!--quoteo(post=1634240:date=Jun 18 2007, 05:12 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Jun 18 2007, 05:12 PM) [snapback]1634240[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> All I'm seeing is my graphics card falling to its knees, tears streaming down its face as it raises its hand toward the skies in silent pleas. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But, but, but it would be like cool <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
4 skulks chewing on a PG, everyone of them casting multiple shadows. Then a marine phases in, his body being torn apart and limbs flying off in different directions each one of them casting multiple shadows. It would be like 10 fps, but it would also be awesome.
<!--quoteo(post=1634304:date=Jun 18 2007, 09:41 PM:name=Haze)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Haze @ Jun 18 2007, 09:41 PM) [snapback]1634304[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Mine would run at like 40 FPS. Hah! Loser computers. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pff then I would simply slowhack you, with my awesome rcon access <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1634326:date=Jun 18 2007, 10:35 PM:name=Haze)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Haze @ Jun 18 2007, 10:35 PM) [snapback]1634326[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I'd shine a flashlight at you and your computer would crash. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Im still fine with it though as long as ns2 is made.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Source still looks pretty decent, episode 2 will improve upon that. Although I'm wondering if they are just going to rewrite the netcode from scratch for this game since they have the source code now.
It has all shiny surfaces but no light is being reflected from them.
The source engine lacked some features that made it ideal for all kinds of things, but with episode2 it looks like they made a perfect blend between good-looking and support for older computers.
IMHO the half life engine looks more realistic because the lighting is smoother and bounces off surfaces. I don't mind if it's pre-calculated now that they said they will release a Hammer update that makes the previews better. Before it was a pain to guess how much a light would lit the room.
Doom3 is all shiny because every surface as a specular map, hence the shinyness. I've yet to see this EP2 upgraded, dynamic lighting. I've watched the videos and theres very little difference too me.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, you didn't look close enough. Watch the clip where the vortigaunt in the caves attacks the antlions with an energy beam. That shows off the self shadowing and dynamic lighting pretty well.
Doom3 is all shiny because every surface as a specular map, hence the shinyness. I've yet to see this EP2 upgraded, dynamic lighting. I've watched the videos and theres very little difference too me.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=OuB0j92CSCs" target="_blank">http://youtube.com/watch?v=OuB0j92CSCs</a>
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/JoshuaC/d2_prison_020001.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Nice, makes you wonder why that wasn't implemented in the first place, back in 04.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it's
A. a lot of work
and
B. something that makes any computer that isn't high end weep for mercy
What would you rather Valve spend time, money, and manpower on? Gameplay or engine improvements that benefit everyone who plays, or fancy engine stuff that only rich people, or people with rich parents, can enjoy? I know my computer would keel over if I tried that kind of lighting on it; it can barely choke Quake IV down at super low details at 640x480. I can run Source at high detail with HDR at much better resolutions; lighting like this would be out of the question, though.
<a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=OuB0j92CSCs" target="_blank">http://youtube.com/watch?v=OuB0j92CSCs</a>
<Pic>
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How did they get access to that?
Or was it a mod?
How did they get access to that?
Or was it a mod?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some tech release at some gaming convention meh thinks.
I personally think Source is one flaky engine just look at how many patches have been released compared to Quake4.
I bet the choice of engine had more to do with licensing charges and user base then technology.
Just from that, I'd have gone with source, without even mentioning the teams experience with their prior engine.
Also, doom 3 never managed to impress me. It might have been a technically better engine, but the art direction kinda sank it's visual appeal in comparison to Half Life 2. (I liked D3, and it's visuals, but I liked HL2 better.)
They should use lighting etc. for NS2, it would add so much suspense and immersion!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The alternative would be to have the entire game be 100% dark which I don't think anyone would enjoy.
if no lights are added the map would be fullbright when played <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
if no lights are added the map would be fullbright when played <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like a siege map!
You need to separate the art from the engine many people judge the engine based on the artwork not the actual engine..
I personally think Source is one flaky engine just look at how many patches have been released compared to Quake4.
I bet the choice of engine had more to do with licensing charges and user base then technology.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the amount of patches released has nothing to do with the quality of the engine. all it says is that the developers are more involved with working on their engine, instead of leaving it alone. look at most EA games, each one has like 2 or 3 patches, if that. does that make them the best engines ever?
the lack of patches for games is most likely because it costs more to make the patch than its worth to fix the problem. with steam and hl2 its much less expensive because there is already a delivery system set up, so everything is automatic. also many patches are adding features, not just fixing problems.
source was designed as an engine that could improve, so it wouldnt become obsolete. the adding of dynamic shadows is a perfect example of how this is possible, and the amount of patches is a perfect example of how valve is constantly working on making source a better engine.
it might not have all the nifty features like full dynamic lighting and the sort like other engines do, but i believe it is the best engine available. it comes with a delivery system, its constantly improving, its very reliable, widely used, and gives the freedom to go in the direction of almost any art style or technology.
look at might and magic, i was quite impressed with how well the source engine handled melee combat, as well as the medeival art style. and im sure ns2 will amaze me even more with new technologies and an incredible art style.
look at might and magic, i was quite impressed with how well the source engine handled melee combat, as well as the medeival art style. and im sure ns2 will amaze me even more with new technologies and an incredible art style.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats very true, you'd barely notice it was the source engine. I'm sure NS will be even more impressive <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> especially when you consider that even ns1 isn't doesnt really resemble hl1 other than the menus
if no lights are added the map would be fullbright when played <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's if no lights are added. I was talking about a lack of <i>lighting</i>, like, no lighting engine at all.
/fap.
Maybe thats because EA don't give a ###### about a game once its been released. I mean look at bf2, bug ridden from the start, and after a couple of patches, and its still the same.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the lack of patches for games is most likely because it costs more to make the patch than its worth to fix the problem. with steam and hl2 its much less expensive because there is already a delivery system set up, so everything is automatic. also many patches are adding features, not just fixing problems.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why would it be less expensive for valve? I'm sure the costs go into developing the patch, not how it is delivered too the end user.
Can you imagine how cool dynamic shadows would look if they were emmited from the light of an operational phase-gate?
/fap.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All I'm seeing is my graphics card falling to its knees, tears streaming down its face as it raises its hand toward the skies in silent pleas.
All I'm seeing is my graphics card falling to its knees, tears streaming down its face as it raises its hand toward the skies in silent pleas.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But, but, but it would be like cool <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
4 skulks chewing on a PG, everyone of them casting multiple shadows. Then a marine phases in, his body being torn apart and limbs flying off in different directions each one of them casting multiple shadows.
It would be like 10 fps, but it would also be awesome.
[/failed sarcasm]
Mine would run at like 40 FPS. Hah! Loser computers.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pff then I would simply slowhack you, with my awesome rcon access <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I'd shine a flashlight at you and your computer would crash.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
mp_flashlight 0
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" />
mp_flashlight 0
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stand in a dark room and fire my weapon?