<!--quoteo(post=1632269:date=Jun 7 2007, 07:02 PM:name=Liku)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Liku @ Jun 7 2007, 07:02 PM) [snapback]1632269[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Fun article, but I think the author's stuck in the past. When points actually meant something and there were "Hi-Score" lists. Beating those tedious games only took a certain amount of quarters and they were all straight forward. Games are too complicated to have everyone start at the beginning again every time they die. The pacing in some games would be killed; like Gears of War. That game flows so well when you died it kinda killed it for me.
Quick saving does kill some games, but only if you abuse it. Luckily for me, I would tend to forget to quick save so I'd play through for a couple hours without saving. But then when I died, the Auto-saves weren't in the best spots so I'd tend to quick save a lot before forgetting. Maybe they should have a quick save limit to games, as to how many you get between check points, so you'd have to be strategic with them. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The first Aliens versus Predator had limited quicksaves (...well, first it was no in-game saves, then they patched it so you could save 10 times). It was fairly efficient, I guess, but there were some levels that just dragged on and on, and you just weren't sure where you wanted to save any more. I don't think I've come across any other games with limited quicksaves, though.
<!--quoteo(post=1632284:date=Jun 8 2007, 02:46 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 8 2007, 02:46 AM) [snapback]1632284[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I would much prefer getting the chance to save only when sleeping in a real bed(i.e. not while waiting). And I much prefer mods that disable fast travel; though I would like some means of fast ingame travel(e.g. ferry along a river or some kind of zeppelin/flying creature between some of the major cities). <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> For the traveling, that's the way Morrowind was. Everyone ######ed endlessly. ENDLESSLY.
Swear filter is irrelevant. Let's keep ###### about the modern state of games. I wonder if this is what old people feel like? We need Depot in here to lecture us about the ravages of aging.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1632299:date=Jun 7 2007, 06:52 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Jun 7 2007, 06:52 PM) [snapback]1632299[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> For the traveling, that's the way Morrowind was. Everyone ######ed endlessly. ENDLESSLY. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which is a crying shame, because it worked really well and was pretty immersive to boot. The only problem was that you actually had to <i>think</i> about how to get to where you were going sometimes, and we can't have that, can we?
<!--quoteo(post=1632299:date=Jun 7 2007, 08:52 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Jun 7 2007, 08:52 PM) [snapback]1632299[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> For the traveling, that's the way Morrowind was. Everyone ######ed endlessly. ENDLESSLY. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know and I much prefered it over your own personal teleporter. 90% of Oblivion quests degenerated into warp to location, head towards the arrow, interract with the most obvious thing you see at the location, warp back for reward.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1632334:date=Jun 8 2007, 01:31 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Soylent_green @ Jun 8 2007, 01:31 AM) [snapback]1632334[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I know and I much prefered it over your own personal teleporter. 90% of Oblivion quests degenerated into warp to location, head towards the arrow, interract with the most obvious thing you see at the location, warp back for reward. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That doesn't mean that travel time is good, it just means that their quests suck.
Personaly I hate travel time for the rather simple reason that I am not DOING anything aside from holding W, and that I only have so much time to spend playing video games, and would prefer instant action.
I agree that Oblivion quick travel messed up alot of the quests as it was just that "quick travel to spot, talk to person, fight 5 guys, done". In Morowind I did quick save constantly b/c of the chance of geometry erros (fallign through the floor sucks), in Oblivion I would quick save before I started a quest/entered a dungeon, but that was it. Quests and dungeons tended to have a good pace to them so that you basicly ended up with savign at the begginging/end was like checkpointing.
the next game I am curious about how it will be handled is Bioshock tbh. If they take a line from SS quick save should not be needed as you can revive, but we will see.
travel time is only a problem if it's exactly just that; travel time. If you stumble across things onroute and have random encounters or find sub-plots it tends to be a lot less boring. Look at some of the best books; masses of travel time between main plot points but filled with lots of interesting diversions! :3
Yeah, too bad LoTR was too boring to ever sit through. Elves, walking, and talking trees. Everything I hate about fantasy. I respect what Tolkien did, but he encouraged the worst fantasy stereotypes ever.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1632480:date=Jun 8 2007, 02:09 PM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Geminosity @ Jun 8 2007, 02:09 PM) [snapback]1632480[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> travel time is only a problem if it's exactly just that; travel time. If you stumble across things onroute and have random encounters or find sub-plots it tends to be a lot less boring. Look at some of the best books; masses of travel time between main plot points but filled with lots of interesting diversions! :3 <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed, however travel time in most games simply consists of either grinding the badies from A to B for some XP/drops, avoiding them, or nothing.
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--quoteo(post=1632480:date=Jun 8 2007, 12:09 PM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Geminosity @ Jun 8 2007, 12:09 PM) [snapback]1632480[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> travel time is only a problem if it's exactly just that; travel time. If you stumble across things onroute and have random encounters or find sub-plots it tends to be a lot less boring. Look at some of the best books; masses of travel time between main plot points but filled with lots of interesting diversions! :3 <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I remember once in Morrowind I was exploring the lands and I found a Katogi... or whatever, but it was early into the game so I couldn't take it on so I was running for my dear life while it was in pursuit and it didn't want to get off me. Finally I managed to stumble upon a Castle Town and the guards killed it for me.
I need to give Morrowind a second try, the graphics were so dumbed down when I played I couldn't see 5 feet in front of me because of the draw distance.
I liked the traveling in Morrowind. I think it added athmosphere, and I often stumbled across interesting stuff. And there were plenty of fast travel services, such as the silt striders, the boats and the mages guild to get you around the world quickly. Sometimes I would travel just for traveling's sake. And the leveling was much more satisfying, because a lot of monsters didn't level up with you like they did in Oblivion.
The monsters levelling up with you in Oblivion has always been something I've found bizarre... doesn't that somewhat take the point out of levelling in the first place? :/
I can't really say much though as I've never actually played oblivion; it's just a very strange sounding idea :p
<!--quoteo(post=1632916:date=Jun 11 2007, 01:58 PM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Geminosity @ Jun 11 2007, 01:58 PM) [snapback]1632916[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The monsters levelling up with you in Oblivion has always been something I've found bizarre... doesn't that somewhat take the point out of levelling in the first place? :/
I can't really say much though as I've never actually played oblivion; it's just a very strange sounding idea <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nha the idea in oblivion is to choose skills you are NEVER going to use as major skillk. This way you will stay at level 1, but with 100 in all important skillks.
Or never rest. Stupid idea though, especially since the NPC equipment "levels up" as well, so you'll run into countryside bandits wearing the best armor in the game...
If you overdo it it can easily lead you to want to do every segment perfectly, resulting that you arrive at the last boss with full health/armor/upgrades/a nuclear bomb the size of a pineapple and whatnot. This prett ymuch takes the challange out of a game.
As an example a friend of mine showed me his Deus Ex savegame years back. He was somewhere near the end of the game and had nearly over 500 soy bean packages in his inventory oO
He never needed them and was only able to collect them cause he loaded everytime he got hit. It was just so stupid. He collected every item that gave health, cause he might need it sometime; but thanks to his quicksaving he did not need a single health item <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1632958:date=Jun 11 2007, 06:56 PM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Jun 11 2007, 06:56 PM) [snapback]1632958[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Heh, Morowind was never a chanlenge unless you specificly limited your self from exploiting the system horribly. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> But as long as I don't bother with Alchemy it'll be fine, right? Now all I need is a mod to make combat less agonizingly dull...
<!--quoteo(post=1632916:date=Jun 11 2007, 07:58 AM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Geminosity @ Jun 11 2007, 07:58 AM) [snapback]1632916[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The monsters levelling up with you in Oblivion has always been something I've found bizarre... doesn't that somewhat take the point out of levelling in the first place? :/ <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah final fantasy 8 had that too. Ruined the game IMHO.
Comments
Fun article, but I think the author's stuck in the past. When points actually meant something and there were "Hi-Score" lists. Beating those tedious games only took a certain amount of quarters and they were all straight forward. Games are too complicated to have everyone start at the beginning again every time they die. The pacing in some games would be killed; like Gears of War. That game flows so well when you died it kinda killed it for me.
Quick saving does kill some games, but only if you abuse it. Luckily for me, I would tend to forget to quick save so I'd play through for a couple hours without saving. But then when I died, the Auto-saves weren't in the best spots so I'd tend to quick save a lot before forgetting. Maybe they should have a quick save limit to games, as to how many you get between check points, so you'd have to be strategic with them.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The first Aliens versus Predator had limited quicksaves (...well, first it was no in-game saves, then they patched it so you could save 10 times). It was fairly efficient, I guess, but there were some levels that just dragged on and on, and you just weren't sure where you wanted to save any more. I don't think I've come across any other games with limited quicksaves, though.
I would much prefer getting the chance to save only when sleeping in a real bed(i.e. not while waiting). And I much prefer mods that disable fast travel; though I would like some means of fast ingame travel(e.g. ferry along a river or some kind of zeppelin/flying creature between some of the major cities).
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For the traveling, that's the way Morrowind was. Everyone ######ed endlessly. ENDLESSLY.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Sigged.
For the traveling, that's the way Morrowind was. Everyone ######ed endlessly. ENDLESSLY.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is a crying shame, because it worked really well and was pretty immersive to boot. The only problem was that you actually had to <i>think</i> about how to get to where you were going sometimes, and we can't have that, can we?
For the traveling, that's the way Morrowind was. Everyone ######ed endlessly. ENDLESSLY.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know and I much prefered it over your own personal teleporter. 90% of Oblivion quests degenerated into warp to location, head towards the arrow, interract with the most obvious thing you see at the location, warp back for reward.
I know and I much prefered it over your own personal teleporter. 90% of Oblivion quests degenerated into warp to location, head towards the arrow, interract with the most obvious thing you see at the location, warp back for reward.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That doesn't mean that travel time is good, it just means that their quests suck.
Personaly I hate travel time for the rather simple reason that I am not DOING anything aside from holding W, and that I only have so much time to spend playing video games, and would prefer instant action.
I agree that Oblivion quick travel messed up alot of the quests as it was just that "quick travel to spot, talk to person, fight 5 guys, done". In Morowind I did quick save constantly b/c of the chance of geometry erros (fallign through the floor sucks), in Oblivion I would quick save before I started a quest/entered a dungeon, but that was it. Quests and dungeons tended to have a good pace to them so that you basicly ended up with savign at the begginging/end was like checkpointing.
the next game I am curious about how it will be handled is Bioshock tbh. If they take a line from SS quick save should not be needed as you can revive, but we will see.
travel time is only a problem if it's exactly just that; travel time. If you stumble across things onroute and have random encounters or find sub-plots it tends to be a lot less boring. Look at some of the best books; masses of travel time between main plot points but filled with lots of interesting diversions! :3
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed, however travel time in most games simply consists of either grinding the badies from A to B for some XP/drops, avoiding them, or nothing.
but dang, what a hard game -_- not even quicksaving could have made that game easier...
travel time is only a problem if it's exactly just that; travel time. If you stumble across things onroute and have random encounters or find sub-plots it tends to be a lot less boring. Look at some of the best books; masses of travel time between main plot points but filled with lots of interesting diversions! :3
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I remember once in Morrowind I was exploring the lands and I found a Katogi... or whatever, but it was early into the game so I couldn't take it on so I was running for my dear life while it was in pursuit and it didn't want to get off me. Finally I managed to stumble upon a Castle Town and the guards killed it for me.
I need to give Morrowind a second try, the graphics were so dumbed down when I played I couldn't see 5 feet in front of me because of the draw distance.
I can't really say much though as I've never actually played oblivion; it's just a very strange sounding idea :p
The monsters levelling up with you in Oblivion has always been something I've found bizarre... doesn't that somewhat take the point out of levelling in the first place? :/
I can't really say much though as I've never actually played oblivion; it's just a very strange sounding idea <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nha the idea in oblivion is to choose skills you are NEVER going to use as major skillk. This way you will stay at level 1, but with 100 in all important skillks.
Stupid idea though, especially since the NPC equipment "levels up" as well, so you'll run into countryside bandits wearing the best armor in the game...
stealing was beyond easy.
Once you had the godl you could make spells that were just EVIL.
If you had the patience alchemy was horribly broken.
And creeper made sure you always had more money then god.
However, specificly limiting your self could actualy make the game interesting at points.
If you overdo it it can easily lead you to want to do every segment perfectly, resulting that you arrive at the last boss with full health/armor/upgrades/a nuclear bomb the size of a pineapple and whatnot. This prett ymuch takes the challange out of a game.
As an example a friend of mine showed me his Deus Ex savegame years back. He was somewhere near the end of the game and had nearly over 500 soy bean packages in his inventory oO
He never needed them and was only able to collect them cause he loaded everytime he got hit. It was just so stupid. He collected every item that gave health, cause he might need it sometime; but thanks to his quicksaving he did not need a single health item <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Heh, Morowind was never a chanlenge unless you specificly limited your self from exploiting the system horribly.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But as long as I don't bother with Alchemy it'll be fine, right?
Now all I need is a mod to make combat less agonizingly dull...
The monsters levelling up with you in Oblivion has always been something I've found bizarre... doesn't that somewhat take the point out of levelling in the first place? :/
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah final fantasy 8 had that too. Ruined the game IMHO.