<!--quoteo(post=1627643:date=May 18 2007, 08:52 PM:name=InsaneBarney)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(InsaneBarney @ May 18 2007, 08:52 PM) [snapback]1627643[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> A 'good' NS player is one who has fun and doesnt take anything too seriously. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think a lot of people would say that Good or Bad is relative to general skill in the game, but the dispute would be which skills are more emphasized over others.
I think your definition should be changed to "Friendly NS player" rather than "Good NS player"
<!--quoteo(post=1627643:date=May 18 2007, 05:52 PM:name=InsaneBarney)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(InsaneBarney @ May 18 2007, 05:52 PM) [snapback]1627643[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> A 'good' NS player is one who has fun and doesnt take anything too seriously. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sounds like bush.
ChocolateThe Team MascotJoin Date: 2006-10-31Member: 58123Members
edited May 2007
Haven't read through the topic, but from what little I've read, here's what I think is a good Ns Player (im using <i>he</i> instead of <i>he/she</i> for simplicity):
<b>Do</b><ol type='1'><li>Can accept defeat (and won't ragequit all the time)</li><li>Tries to increase the team's moral or at least not deter from it</li><li>Follows orders or expresses their opinions if they think the order is incorrect</li><li>Helps the newbies improve when possible (gives feedback, suggestions, etc.)</li><li>Always tries to give the most possible to the team. If he were a good aimer, he would be in the front lines. If he was a experienced builder, he would go gorge. If he were a good ambusher, he would ambush.</li><li>He would try turn his weaknesses into strengths or improve his strengths regularly.</li></ol> <b>Don't</b><ol type='1'><li>Rambo (unless if a ninja)</li><li>Complains, mic spams, yells, argues, etc.</li></ol>
I never understood why people are so against solo players engaging multiple enemies if said player is capable of doing so.
By having one player do the job of 3 or 4 players, that allows the rest of the team to obtain more resource nodes thus allowing the team to not only tech faster, but expand their dominance on the map.
It seems that a lot of NSers definition of teamwork is that squads of 4 or 5 have to be in the same room kind of in a way roleplaying and using "squad tactics".
This to me seems forced to me as I have seen first hand (as well as participated in) what damage a very good solo player can do.
Even if the rambo is racking up kills, that is still resources for the team he is collecting. Even if it just pays for his or her's meds and ammo, I still feel its worth it simply because a talented solo player can do the job of 3 or 4 people, they should be allowed to maximize the team's potential ability to win.
<!--quoteo(post=1628195:date=May 21 2007, 08:17 AM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ May 21 2007, 08:17 AM) [snapback]1628195[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I never understood why people are so against solo players engaging multiple enemies if said player is capable of doing so.
By having one player do the job of 3 or 4 players, that allows the rest of the team to obtain more resource nodes thus allowing the team to not only tech faster, but expand their dominance on the map.
It seems that a lot of NSers definition of teamwork is that squads of 4 or 5 have to be in the same room kind of in a way roleplaying and using "squad tactics".
This to me seems forced to me as I have seen first hand (as well as participated in) what damage a very good solo player can do.
Even if the rambo is racking up kills, that is still resources for the team he is collecting. Even if it just pays for his or her's meds and ammo, I still feel its worth it simply because a talented solo player can do the job of 3 or 4 people, they should be allowed to maximize the team's potential ability to win. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it is boring having the same marine walking into the hive room and sending the whole alien team to the spawn 4 times in a row. This happens often enough and it usually means that the server will be empty after 3 games. Sure, I have done the same quite a few times (but it doesnt happen anymore, cause I dont play that much NS anymore resulting in a totally degraded aim) but I always left the server after it happend, simply because I knew that people get ###### and I also did not enjoy it myself. But some people, I especially recall a marine only player back in 2005 that called himself fana and frequented the weasels server, always going marine and often enough beating the alien team solo (depending on who was on). I never saw him go alien even once. This is what enrages people. NS pubs are not about winning easily. They are about struggling and then winning!
<!--quoteo(post=1628207:date=May 21 2007, 09:24 AM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ May 21 2007, 09:24 AM) [snapback]1628207[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Wait wait, let me get this straight. You mean to say that people won't play a game if they aren't having any fun? Thats preposterous! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So then you would define a good NSplayer that sacrifices his own fun for the sake of the other team?
What does that have to do with the Merit of the player in question?
Also, if the alien team knows that it is possible to be spawn camped, they should take extra means of prevention and stop blaming one player for ruining the fun.
If you do not wish to be spawn camped, then do not, find a way to avoid the situation that way your fun levels improve.
When asked how much of his success was down to luck, a famous golfer once said:<!--QuoteBegin-Gary Player+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gary Player)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The more I practise, the luckier I get. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A good NSPlayer is someone who plays the game long enough to understand it.
A great player is someone who can exploit this knowledge to give him an advantage over a good player in every respect.
<!--quoteo(post=1628336:date=May 21 2007, 03:32 PM:name=SnipeStar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SnipeStar @ May 21 2007, 03:32 PM) [snapback]1628336[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> 1 concept that i really see lacking in a lot of these team-based games nowadays
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1628199:date=May 21 2007, 09:02 AM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Faskalia @ May 21 2007, 09:02 AM) [snapback]1628199[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Because it is boring having the same marine walking into the hive room and sending the whole alien team to the spawn 4 times in a row. This happens often enough and it usually means that the server will be empty after 3 games. Sure, I have done the same quite a few times (but it doesnt happen anymore, cause I dont play that much NS anymore resulting in a totally degraded aim) but I always left the server after it happend, simply because I knew that people get ###### and I also did not enjoy it myself. But some people, I especially recall a marine only player back in 2005 that called himself fana and frequented the weasels server, always going marine and often enough beating the alien team solo (depending on who was on). I never saw him go alien even once. This is what enrages people. NS pubs are not about winning easily. They are about struggling and then winning! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think I played on that server a couple of hours a day for about a week, before I got banned for fragging an admin's Lerk twice, which I apparently was only able to do because of my "lag hack". Great server, great people.
What is your definition of teamwork? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->working with your teammates towards the common goal of victory
i dont mean going off by yourself shooting up the other team, because that is sorta one of the common goals of the team
i mean someone who cooridinates attacks with his teammates, supports their actions, welds their armor/heals them, etc, relays pertinent information to them (i.e. fades hitting double, need backup), someone who follows and or leads his teammates together in hope of victory
thats sorta a general definition but i think you see what i mean
basically someone who doesnt run off to the hive to do things on their own but sticks with his/her teammates and helps support and follow/lead them towards victory
I am against the Rambos who are terrible at their jobs.
What I am saying though is that even though a player is by himself he still contribute quite amount to the team.
Why shouldn't a player who can do the job of 3 or 4 players be allowed to go off on his own?
I define teamwork as maximizing the talents on the team as best as possible whilst contributing to an offensive goal.
As a commander I love a player who can drop 3 or 4 aliens on their own, it makes commanding a lot easier on me, as well as allows the rest of the team to kill other enemies as well as expand faster.
I don't see why the rambo in this case is a bad team player. Would it be better to waste resources by surronding him with other players and have him still get the same amount of kills?
If I have a player that is talented enough to engage multiple opponents then by God I will unleash him or her.
Agreed!! if you want to be a good teamplayer then do what you're good at!! If you happen to be an awesome fade then go forth and slay as many as you can! same goes with anyother lifeform (including humans with guns).
Once.. quite a long time ago.. i was playing in a server with a "no whoring two times in a row policy". I was unaware of this. anyway i faded first game, pretty well (though im ish now lol), and the game was won. 2nd game more than half the team had gorged straight away so i though it would be IN THE TEAMS BEST INTEREST for me to fade or even onos.
Well anyway i evolve onos and the admin says "wankalot evolve back into skulk now". Thought he was joking... but alas he kicked me. After rejoin i was obviously annoyed and asked for reasons. Only then did admin explain his server's ridiculous rule. Out of rage i saved up 80 res again. Admin said "you better be gorging wankalot" and i was. but then i stacked ocs in a useless vent and left. Crappy server anyway.
The point of this anecdote is that is ure good at whoring a racking up kills then u should be given the freedom to do so and not get any ish for it!
<!--quoteo(post=1628411:date=May 21 2007, 10:59 PM:name=SnipeStar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SnipeStar @ May 21 2007, 10:59 PM) [snapback]1628411[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> working with your teammates towards the common goal of victory
i dont mean going off by yourself shooting up the other team, because that is sorta one of the common goals of the team
i mean someone who cooridinates attacks with his teammates, supports their actions, welds their armor/heals them, etc, relays pertinent information to them (i.e. fades hitting double, need backup), someone who follows and or leads his teammates together in hope of victory
thats sorta a general definition but i think you see what i mean
basically someone who doesnt run off to the hive to do things on their own but sticks with his/her teammates and helps support and follow/lead them towards victory <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> thats not teamwork, thats role-playing
A good NSPlayer is good because other players say he is.
To earn this comment, you need 4 simple things: 1. aim 2. movement abilities 3. a very good understanding of the game 4. knowing what to do at the right moment (includes "Teamwork")
Well, teamwork is difficult to explain, since everybody has a different point of view on what teamplay is. I think it's: 1. staying with other marines ONLY WHEN NEEDED 2. welding at the right moment (not for every 2 lost armor points and generally not when your mate is reloading and you both need cover) 3. covering other players
deeper explanations: 1. If a group of your team is pushing for the aliens restowers it's okay if you stay at a key position to kill skulks who are on their way to cover their RT and may wipe your team out. OR When your team is sieging a Hive, don't look in the same direction your teammates do or you and your team might get killed by a silence skulk (or a couple of them) from behind. OR your team is attacking the 2nd hive (which is "under construction") and you spawnkill the skulks your team has successfully killed in order to make their life easier (this gives your team some extra time they might need)
However, I'm not a fan of spawnkilling on pubs right at the start, its boring (and im not really good at it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />)
2. It's generally stupid to weld your teammate if hes reloading and can't cover you while you're reparing his armor, however, there are possible exceptions, as if you're only a LMG-LA Marine and you probably save a HA's ###### with your sucidide weld.
3. This means that you should just press your cover button and let the building/welding marine die because your aim is too bad, it means you know that you can make him/her stay alive when you say it. My experience on public is, that, even if somebody is "covering" me, i generally do most of the damage to the skulk/lerk that is attacking me while I'm building. I think if you're not skilled enough you should rather consider power-building than trying to be a "teamplayer".
So basically a good player needs Skill and Experience.
PS: my posts are only this long because if have nothing to do in my real life at the moment (I just finished school and I'm waiting for my grades <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />)
<!--quoteo(post=1628426:date=May 22 2007, 04:10 AM:name=TOmekki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TOmekki @ May 22 2007, 04:10 AM) [snapback]1628426[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> thats not teamwork, thats role-playing <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->.. um sorry to disappoint you but what i describe were fair examples of teamwork
Well in order to assume some kind of logic here we have to get out in the open the underlying assumptions.
One side is a competitive argument (i.e. those who play to win for whatever reason)
The other side is a casual argument (i.e. those who play to play for whatever reason)
Tomekki is calling your argument "Role Playing" because it seems that in your depiction of a "good" player you never really focused on the individual himself you focused on how well he works with the team. It seems you over-emphasize teamwork, and that you feel you should have it just for the sake of having it (which is maladaptive, and would go against the definition of being a "good player" in some circles).
Good player, as the original thread has intended, is defined mostly by the person merits that the individual possesses.
A key point in the original post was
"Does what helps the team most"
Now this encapsulates a lot of categories. This enables the player who can engage multiple enemies to do so under this premise. This also allows for more "role players" (not the final fantasy or dungeon and dragons type) to do their jobs as well such as builders, cappers, welders etc....
Under your strict teamwork definition, the player who is able to perform murder on the opposite side does not fit in this model. Now your exclusion of this individual or group of individuals does not seem to have merit, as you do not recognize that they are most likely trying to win as well as get kills.
Since you sacrifice the effective use of those players, and would force them to huddle up with other teammates when that is unnecessary, what other purpose would you have for that?
One potential answer is role playing. Winning is not important to you, but getting the most out of the gameplay is. Role playing is a way to get more excitement out of your game.
One way to simulate what would be a better game is to force teamwork because that causes more communication and makes the game more social.
Your tactics are valid in some circles, but I'll be damned to believe that the only good players are the ones that hump each other's legs like they had a deficit of male intimacy when they were younger. That is just narrow minded and naive.
i believe in teamwork because ive seen how powerful it can be. this is team-oriented game-- there are plenty of games out there that are indescriminate deathmatch or just single player action. so i think that one of the keys to being a good player at a team-based game is coordinated teamwork. im not saying that you need hump each other the entire map/game but when the players work together it is so much more effective than everyone running blindly around the map to raise their frag score.
Would you believe in a love at first sight Yes, I'm certain that it happens all the time What do you see when you turn out the light I can't tell you but I know it's mine
Oh, I get by with a little help from my friends Mm, I get high with a little help from my friends Mm, gonna try with a little help from my friends
Do you need anybody I just need someone to love Could it be anybody I want somebody to love
Oh, I get by with a little help from my friends Mm, I get high with a little help from my friends Mm, gonna try with a little help from my friends Yes I get by with a little help from my friends With a little help from my friends
<!--quoteo(post=1628569:date=May 22 2007, 06:29 PM:name=SnipeStar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SnipeStar @ May 22 2007, 06:29 PM) [snapback]1628569[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> your post was very well spoken
i believe in teamwork because ive seen how powerful it can be. this is team-oriented game-- there are plenty of games out there that are indescriminate deathmatch or just single player action. so i think that one of the keys to being a good player at a team-based game is coordinated teamwork. im not saying that you need hump each other the entire map/game but when the players work together it is so much more effective than everyone running blindly around the map to raise their frag score. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a team oriented game, unfortunately, a solo player with enough talent can beat out the other team.
I am saying this guy is valuable to the team working alone because he or she is still contributing to the common goal.
You say this player is a Rambo and does not fit the Criterion for being a "Good NSplayer".
Its really how we define the word "Good"
I mean "Good" as in skill wise, I think you mean good with regards to how much fun you can have with the player.
Well put Firewater, however it seems you'e avoiding the meta-game. In my opinion a good player must not only be able to do what you described above, he also needs to have qualities that help develop his team in the long run. The ability to pick up new things and improve is obviously a prerequisit for becoming a good player, however that is worth squat if you're not prepared to work for the improvement of the team. After all it is a team game, and if you play against players who are as good as you and your team are then the team that has been or is able to take care of it's combinded qualities the best will win - in the long run at least.
Of course this only applies to competetive teams, as casual ones neither care nor for the most part are able to keep a constant team for a decent period of time.
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1628619:date=May 22 2007, 09:54 PM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ May 22 2007, 09:54 PM) [snapback]1628619[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am saying this guy is ... contributing to the common goal.
I mean "Good" as in skill wise, I think you mean good with regards to how much fun you can have with the player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Your second statement there resolves this otherwise endless cycle of discussion. "Common" goals often aren't, especially in public spaces.
I could expound, but I think my point is well made in our experience as gamers.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
been 2.x but I remember I was playing on a server where we had this 'pro' solo player. After a few matches me and another buddy finally got fedup by him always going rine and janking through the alien team nonstop, hivecamping etc.
We both went kharaa the next match and made it our sole purpose to track that guy whereever he went, plunging through his entire team ignoring him only to get him if he happened to not be alone.
he quit in that match. Served him right. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Comments
A 'good' NS player is one who has fun and doesnt take anything too seriously.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think a lot of people would say that Good or Bad is relative to general skill in the game, but the dispute would be which skills are more emphasized over others.
I think your definition should be changed to "Friendly NS player" rather than "Good NS player"
A 'good' NS player is one who has fun and doesnt take anything too seriously.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sounds like bush.
End of story.
<b>Do</b><ol type='1'><li>Can accept defeat (and won't ragequit all the time)</li><li>Tries to increase the team's moral or at least not deter from it</li><li>Follows orders or expresses their opinions if they think the order is incorrect</li><li>Helps the newbies improve when possible (gives feedback, suggestions, etc.)</li><li>Always tries to give the most possible to the team. If he were a good aimer, he would be in the front lines. If he was a experienced builder, he would go gorge. If he were a good ambusher, he would ambush.</li><li>He would try turn his weaknesses into strengths or improve his strengths regularly.</li></ol>
<b>Don't</b><ol type='1'><li>Rambo (unless if a ninja)</li><li>Complains, mic spams, yells, argues, etc.</li></ol>
By having one player do the job of 3 or 4 players, that allows the rest of the team to obtain more resource nodes thus allowing the team to not only tech faster, but expand their dominance on the map.
It seems that a lot of NSers definition of teamwork is that squads of 4 or 5 have to be in the same room kind of in a way roleplaying and using "squad tactics".
This to me seems forced to me as I have seen first hand (as well as participated in) what damage a very good solo player can do.
Even if the rambo is racking up kills, that is still resources for the team he is collecting. Even if it just pays for his or her's meds and ammo, I still feel its worth it simply because a talented solo player can do the job of 3 or 4 people, they should be allowed to maximize the team's potential ability to win.
I never understood why people are so against solo players engaging multiple enemies if said player is capable of doing so.
By having one player do the job of 3 or 4 players, that allows the rest of the team to obtain more resource nodes thus allowing the team to not only tech faster, but expand their dominance on the map.
It seems that a lot of NSers definition of teamwork is that squads of 4 or 5 have to be in the same room kind of in a way roleplaying and using "squad tactics".
This to me seems forced to me as I have seen first hand (as well as participated in) what damage a very good solo player can do.
Even if the rambo is racking up kills, that is still resources for the team he is collecting. Even if it just pays for his or her's meds and ammo, I still feel its worth it simply because a talented solo player can do the job of 3 or 4 people, they should be allowed to maximize the team's potential ability to win.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it is boring having the same marine walking into the hive room and sending the whole alien team to the spawn 4 times in a row. This happens often enough and it usually means that the server will be empty after 3 games. Sure, I have done the same quite a few times (but it doesnt happen anymore, cause I dont play that much NS anymore resulting in a totally degraded aim) but I always left the server after it happend, simply because I knew that people get ###### and I also did not enjoy it myself. But some people, I especially recall a marine only player back in 2005 that called himself fana and frequented the weasels server, always going marine and often enough beating the alien team solo (depending on who was on). I never saw him go alien even once. This is what enrages people.
NS pubs are not about winning easily. They are about struggling and then winning!
Wait wait, let me get this straight. You mean to say that people won't play a game if they aren't having any fun? Thats preposterous!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unless you are a masochist, YES!
What does that have to do with the Merit of the player in question?
Also, if the alien team knows that it is possible to be spawn camped, they should take extra means of prevention and stop blaming one player for ruining the fun.
If you do not wish to be spawn camped, then do not, find a way to avoid the situation that way your fun levels improve.
A good NSPlayer is someone who plays the game long enough to understand it.
A great player is someone who can exploit this knowledge to give him an advantage over a good player in every respect.
Teamwork
1 concept that i really see lacking in a lot of these team-based games nowadays
Teamwork
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is your definition of teamwork?
Because it is boring having the same marine walking into the hive room and sending the whole alien team to the spawn 4 times in a row. This happens often enough and it usually means that the server will be empty after 3 games. Sure, I have done the same quite a few times (but it doesnt happen anymore, cause I dont play that much NS anymore resulting in a totally degraded aim) but I always left the server after it happend, simply because I knew that people get ###### and I also did not enjoy it myself. But some people, I especially recall a marine only player back in 2005 that called himself fana and frequented the weasels server, always going marine and often enough beating the alien team solo (depending on who was on). I never saw him go alien even once. This is what enrages people.
NS pubs are not about winning easily. They are about struggling and then winning!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think I played on that server a couple of hours a day for about a week, before I got banned for fragging an admin's Lerk twice, which I apparently was only able to do because of my "lag hack". Great server, great people.
What is your definition of teamwork? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->working with your teammates towards the common goal of victory
i dont mean going off by yourself shooting up the other team, because that is sorta one of the common goals of the team
i mean someone who cooridinates attacks with his teammates, supports their actions, welds their armor/heals them, etc, relays pertinent information to them (i.e. fades hitting double, need backup), someone who follows and or leads his teammates together in hope of victory
thats sorta a general definition but i think you see what i mean
basically someone who doesnt run off to the hive to do things on their own but sticks with his/her teammates and helps support and follow/lead them towards victory
What I am saying though is that even though a player is by himself he still contribute quite amount to the team.
Why shouldn't a player who can do the job of 3 or 4 players be allowed to go off on his own?
I define teamwork as maximizing the talents on the team as best as possible whilst contributing to an offensive goal.
As a commander I love a player who can drop 3 or 4 aliens on their own, it makes commanding a lot easier on me, as well as allows the rest of the team to kill other enemies as well as expand faster.
I don't see why the rambo in this case is a bad team player. Would it be better to waste resources by surronding him with other players and have him still get the same amount of kills?
If I have a player that is talented enough to engage multiple opponents then by God I will unleash him or her.
I feel its detrimental to the team NOT to.
Once.. quite a long time ago.. i was playing in a server with a "no whoring two times in a row policy". I was unaware of this. anyway i faded first game, pretty well (though im ish now lol), and the game was won. 2nd game more than half the team had gorged straight away so i though it would be IN THE TEAMS BEST INTEREST for me to fade or even onos.
Well anyway i evolve onos and the admin says "wankalot evolve back into skulk now". Thought he was joking... but alas he kicked me. After rejoin i was obviously annoyed and asked for reasons. Only then did admin explain his server's ridiculous rule. Out of rage i saved up 80 res again. Admin said "you better be gorging wankalot" and i was. but then i stacked ocs in a useless vent and left. Crappy server anyway.
The point of this anecdote is that is ure good at whoring a racking up kills then u should be given the freedom to do so and not get any ish for it!
working with your teammates towards the common goal of victory
i dont mean going off by yourself shooting up the other team, because that is sorta one of the common goals of the team
i mean someone who cooridinates attacks with his teammates, supports their actions, welds their armor/heals them, etc, relays pertinent information to them (i.e. fades hitting double, need backup), someone who follows and or leads his teammates together in hope of victory
thats sorta a general definition but i think you see what i mean
basically someone who doesnt run off to the hive to do things on their own but sticks with his/her teammates and helps support and follow/lead them towards victory
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats not teamwork, thats role-playing
To earn this comment, you need 4 simple things:
1. aim
2. movement abilities
3. a very good understanding of the game
4. knowing what to do at the right moment (includes "Teamwork")
Well, teamwork is difficult to explain, since everybody has a different point of view on what teamplay is.
I think it's:
1. staying with other marines ONLY WHEN NEEDED
2. welding at the right moment (not for every 2 lost armor points and generally not when your mate is reloading and you both need cover)
3. covering other players
deeper explanations:
1. If a group of your team is pushing for the aliens restowers it's okay if you stay at a key position to kill skulks who are on their way to cover their RT and may wipe your team out.
OR
When your team is sieging a Hive, don't look in the same direction your teammates do or you and your team might get killed by a silence skulk (or a couple of them) from behind.
OR
your team is attacking the 2nd hive (which is "under construction") and you spawnkill the skulks your team has successfully killed in order to make their life easier (this gives your team some extra time they might need)
However, I'm not a fan of spawnkilling on pubs right at the start, its boring (and im not really good at it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />)
2. It's generally stupid to weld your teammate if hes reloading and can't cover you while you're reparing his armor, however, there are possible exceptions, as if you're only a LMG-LA Marine and you probably save a HA's ###### with your sucidide weld.
3. This means that you should just press your cover button and let the building/welding marine die because your aim is too bad, it means you know that you can make him/her stay alive when you say it. My experience on public is, that, even if somebody is "covering" me, i generally do most of the damage to the skulk/lerk that is attacking me while I'm building. I think if you're not skilled enough you should rather consider power-building than trying to be a "teamplayer".
So basically a good player needs Skill and Experience.
PS: my posts are only this long because if have nothing to do in my real life at the moment (I just finished school and I'm waiting for my grades <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />)
thats not teamwork, thats role-playing <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->.. um sorry to disappoint you but what i describe were fair examples of teamwork
why dont you share your definition of teamwork?
One side is a competitive argument (i.e. those who play to win for whatever reason)
The other side is a casual argument (i.e. those who play to play for whatever reason)
Tomekki is calling your argument "Role Playing" because it seems that in your depiction of a "good" player you never really focused on the individual himself you focused on how well he works with the team. It seems you over-emphasize teamwork, and that you feel you should have it just for the sake of having it (which is maladaptive, and would go against the definition of being a "good player" in some circles).
Good player, as the original thread has intended, is defined mostly by the person merits that the individual possesses.
A key point in the original post was
"Does what helps the team most"
Now this encapsulates a lot of categories. This enables the player who can engage multiple enemies to do so under this premise. This also allows for more "role players" (not the final fantasy or dungeon and dragons type) to do their jobs as well such as builders, cappers, welders etc....
Under your strict teamwork definition, the player who is able to perform murder on the opposite side does not fit in this model. Now your exclusion of this individual or group of individuals does not seem to have merit, as you do not recognize that they are most likely trying to win as well as get kills.
Since you sacrifice the effective use of those players, and would force them to huddle up with other teammates when that is unnecessary, what other purpose would you have for that?
One potential answer is role playing. Winning is not important to you, but getting the most out of the gameplay is. Role playing is a way to get more excitement out of your game.
One way to simulate what would be a better game is to force teamwork because that causes more communication and makes the game more social.
Your tactics are valid in some circles, but I'll be damned to believe that the only good players are the ones that hump each other's legs like they had a deficit of male intimacy when they were younger. That is just narrow minded and naive.
i believe in teamwork because ive seen how powerful it can be. this is team-oriented game-- there are plenty of games out there that are indescriminate deathmatch or just single player action. so i think that one of the keys to being a good player at a team-based game is coordinated teamwork. im not saying that you need hump each other the entire map/game but when the players work together it is so much more effective than everyone running blindly around the map to raise their frag score.
Yes, I'm certain that it happens all the time
What do you see when you turn out the light
I can't tell you but I know it's mine
Oh, I get by with a little help from my friends
Mm, I get high with a little help from my friends
Mm, gonna try with a little help from my friends
Do you need anybody
I just need someone to love
Could it be anybody
I want somebody to love
Oh, I get by with a little help from my friends
Mm, I get high with a little help from my friends
Mm, gonna try with a little help from my friends
Yes I get by with a little help from my friends
With a little help from my friends
your post was very well spoken
i believe in teamwork because ive seen how powerful it can be. this is team-oriented game-- there are plenty of games out there that are indescriminate deathmatch or just single player action. so i think that one of the keys to being a good player at a team-based game is coordinated teamwork. im not saying that you need hump each other the entire map/game but when the players work together it is so much more effective than everyone running blindly around the map to raise their frag score.
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This is a team oriented game, unfortunately, a solo player with enough talent can beat out the other team.
I am saying this guy is valuable to the team working alone because he or she is still contributing to the common goal.
You say this player is a Rambo and does not fit the Criterion for being a "Good NSplayer".
Its really how we define the word "Good"
I mean "Good" as in skill wise, I think you mean good with regards to how much fun you can have with the player.
A good NSPlayer plays NS instead of theorycraft on the NS forums
Of course this only applies to competetive teams, as casual ones neither care nor for the most part are able to keep a constant team for a decent period of time.
I mean "Good" as in skill wise, I think you mean good with regards to how much fun you can have with the player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your second statement there resolves this otherwise endless cycle of discussion. "Common" goals often aren't, especially in public spaces.
I could expound, but I think my point is well made in our experience as gamers.
We both went kharaa the next match and made it our sole purpose to track that guy whereever he went, plunging through his entire team ignoring him only to get him if he happened to not be alone.
he quit in that match. Served him right. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />