<!--quoteo(post=1626508:date=May 13 2007, 12:55 PM:name=TOmekki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TOmekki @ May 13 2007, 12:55 PM) [snapback]1626508[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> this is exactly what im talking about. dont play <strike>on pubs</strike> NS. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Fixed.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bring on Steam matchmaking, that's all I have to say.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That sounds quite... sensual.
Man I was hoping to come in here and make someone feel bad for their retarded post, but unfortunetly there are way too many to single one out. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lerk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::lerk::" border="0" alt="lerk.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1626557:date=May 13 2007, 09:21 PM:name=That_Annoying_Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(That_Annoying_Kid @ May 13 2007, 09:21 PM) [snapback]1626557[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Do I make an okay NSplayer zaggy? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if they have a bad day they take it out on other people on public servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm a completely different guy online than onfoot. At school, I'm more of the passive weird guy who gets good grades, then on the pc, I fight people in games or on forums.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
recognize yourself smood? get a life <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
In my opinion what makes a competent NSplayer is as follows. I apologize in advance for not reading all the replies already.
1. Can aim decently well (knows that aiming is combination of strafing and mouse movement) 2. Can use sound and react appropriately 3. Can determine when it is best to work with the rest of the team, or go off on his or her own. 4. Has extensive knowledge of the HL1 engine and all of its querks. 5. Knowing his or her limits, thus making him or her an efficient player. 6. Has a good deck of tactics and knows when to execute them. 7. Keeps an open mind about their own game and will point out flaws to correct, as well as strengths to enhance. 8. Knows when to put on offensive pressure and knows when to pull back. 9. Can assess the enemy's defenses and use effective tactics to counter them. 10. Is difficult to gain surprise on. 11. Can engage multiple opponents at the same time (this goes for both aliens and marines). 12. Competent with effective strategies and understands WHY they work, not just how to execute them. 13. Capabilities based on the current game theory to develop new tactics and strategies that will flow and mesh in the game (hardest one to pull off.)
This is just a short list of what I define as a good NS player. There are a decent amount of things and most people can do a few of these things, but not all. The very best NS players are capable of completing all of these tasks.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->EDIT: And to just make shure that the clanner vs pubbers debate doesnt rise again: Pubbers can live witheout clanners (no doubt) but clanners cannot live without pubbers, because the recruit themselves from clanners. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The game's numbers will continue to dwindle without a thriving clan scene due to the complexity and inherent competitive nature of the game.
I guess the question is, what do you define as "live?".
When the clan scene was booming the player base was well over 1,000. Now with a dwindling competitive base, as well as numerous other factors have caused the dimishing of the NS player base
<!--quoteo(post=1626796:date=May 14 2007, 09:55 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ May 14 2007, 09:55 PM) [snapback]1626796[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> How about I say, when the pub scene was booming, the clan scene followed suit?
Tomekki, don't play pubs. Go play on those countless 6v6 servers that I keep hearing about and stop your whining. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> hey smoodcroozn i hear you're so well liked on these forums they're making a website all about you
<!--quoteo(post=1626796:date=May 14 2007, 10:55 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ May 14 2007, 10:55 PM) [snapback]1626796[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Tomekki, don't play pubs. Go play on those countless 6v6 servers that I keep hearing about and stop your whining.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
where did i ever mention 6v6 servers? re-read my previous post <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Cheer up, emo ducks.
I really can't see the point in the angst, and actually find myself agreeing with this shiny, new, passive Fana. There are morons in every community, just some of them happen to aim better than others and end up being 'pro', some of them just ragequit off their pub of choice. I happen to only pub because I can't predict my gameplaying time very well, but I find them obnoxious wherever i meet them.
If you're not enjoying the game, for whatever reason, be it the game itself, or another player, just don't play. If you are, continue to play. If you can't get away from the obnoxious players, start your own server, or show yourself to be the responsible one deserving of admin on someone elses.
But none of the opinions stated that sweepingly state that pubs are full of such crybabies, or clanservers/pug's are full of elitist jerks really help. Unless you're tryng to troll intentionally I suppose, in which case you're helping your cause, I suppose. But then, you're a zero anyway. (Woo, I got to make one!)
<!--quoteo(post=1626798:date=May 15 2007, 12:13 AM:name=TrueVeritas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TrueVeritas @ May 15 2007, 12:13 AM) [snapback]1626798[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> hey smoodcroozn i hear you're so well liked on these forums they're making a website all about you <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Its definately extremely difficult to take him seriously, he parallels Jack Thompson with regards to ability to formulate argument as well as general intelligence levels.
Personally it's still an awesome game. Yeah we complain about balance issues. Sure it's on the cluinky HL1 engine when we could be gazing at Source. No duh there's jerks and elitist. But still, people play it.
In my opinion, it's a decline on the part of the overall feel. Things are getting a little old, super new improvements haven't come for a while to make things fresh (except for a few awesome maps), and let's face it, they're busy building us a shiny new NS2.
I agree with those who say just play it if you enjoy it, stop if you don't.
As for pub vs. comp, I'd say it's a decline on both ends. Without good competitive to stimulate interest, you don't have as much public games. Without public games introducing and training new players, you don't get people going to competitive. It's not cause and effect, it's mutual. I'm a pub player due to time constraints, and my skill level is still way too nub to make it competitively.
the idea that bunnyhopping is a prereq for being a good NS player should be considered a cavemanesque vestigial mode of thinking on the same ranks of stereotyping, nationalism, prejudice, and the like; it's something most people exhibit during their formative years (middle school, waning throughout high school)--though some never grow out of it--and that people who are emotionally "grown up" don't dabble in.
in other words, it's like saying, "oh, that guy has Vans shoes, I bet he's a skater boi, and is cool and sociable" - behavior rampant amongst the emotionally underdeveloped and generally the stuff of childishness and adolescents.
<!--quoteo(post=1627495:date=May 18 2007, 02:59 AM:name=ubermensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ubermensch @ May 18 2007, 02:59 AM) [snapback]1627495[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> the idea that bunnyhopping is a prereq for being a good NS player should be considered a cavemanesque vestigial mode of thinking on the same ranks of stereotyping, nationalism, prejudice, and the like; it's something most people exhibit during their formative years (middle school, waning throughout high school)--though some never grow out of it--and that people who are emotionally "grown up" don't dabble in.
in other words, it's like saying, "oh, that guy has Vans shoes, I bet he's a skater boi, and is cool and sociable" - behavior rampant amongst the emotionally underdeveloped and generally the stuff of childishness and adolescents. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
why are you making such a big deal over it? air control is just a part of understanding how the game works
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
spellman23 understands what it's all about.
I'm not sure whether ubermensch's post is meant in a sarcastic "I'm-acting-so-retarded-I'm-actually-making-fun-of-the-people-who-act-like-this" way or not, for his sake I hope it is.
Although I think he is overreacting, I agree that bhop isn't a prereq because a player who excels in a number of other areas will easily overcome that deficiency.
You need to possess almost all of the aforementioned skills to be a GREAT ns player, but just some of them to be good.
Eh I just made a short list. It depends upon definition of "Good"
I think you need all of those attributes to a competent and good player, some other people may not.
I would define greatness by players who consistently beat "Good" players and are not just competent in those attributes I just listed, but excel better than the "good" players.
Its difficult to judge a good or great player just on pubs alone. Anyone can tear up a pub, because the range of skill in a pub is much more dyanamic and often lower end compared to those of scrims and matches.
Competence and Incompetence are defined in the present moment, but gradually become solidified over time. Meaning that you can be a "good" player, but play a bad game. You can also be a bad player and get lucky (it happens).
Thats why I set a long list of characteristics that I would find that one would need to be a good player. Just because you can beat the players around you does not make you "good" it just means you are better than those who are in the server. Whether those results generalize to other servers and situations would remain to be seen if said player wishes to see how far his or her skills can go.
This is why its common to see a lot of community members that play a lot of NS will say they are good, but will often times not want to form a team or join an existing team. I'm sure there are several reasons for this but I think one of the common reasons is that the people who habitually own a server they regular may not be able to generalize those same results in an environment where there is less of a margin of error. Several reasons for this is that the player may enjoy the respect and props that are given to top players in the server as well as the status that he or she perceives in the self. That respect/status probably will not generalize to the competitive setting as most likely the player will not have developed his or her skills to the point of top level player, simply because in public play a player does not have to be that good to earn respect on a server.
Thats why I listed those attributes. If a player can do all of those things, more often than not the pub environment should not be an issue and the player would also be a skilled competitive player as well. Those who can really excel at those attributes will become the top competitive players, thus the highest skilled out of any category.
Comments
this is exactly what im talking about. dont play <strike>on pubs</strike> NS.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Fixed.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bring on Steam matchmaking, that's all I have to say.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That sounds quite... sensual.
I sound quite... retarded.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fixed
Do I make an okay NSplayer zaggy?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hell yes TA!
The playing field is not level, know your place.
My sig has been signed by a dev, I feel so special.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm a completely different guy online than onfoot. At school, I'm more of the passive weird guy who gets good grades, then on the pc, I fight people in games or on forums.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
recognize yourself smood? get a life <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
1. Can aim decently well (knows that aiming is combination of strafing and mouse movement)
2. Can use sound and react appropriately
3. Can determine when it is best to work with the rest of the team, or go off on his or her own.
4. Has extensive knowledge of the HL1 engine and all of its querks.
5. Knowing his or her limits, thus making him or her an efficient player.
6. Has a good deck of tactics and knows when to execute them.
7. Keeps an open mind about their own game and will point out flaws to correct, as well as strengths to enhance.
8. Knows when to put on offensive pressure and knows when to pull back.
9. Can assess the enemy's defenses and use effective tactics to counter them.
10. Is difficult to gain surprise on.
11. Can engage multiple opponents at the same time (this goes for both aliens and marines).
12. Competent with effective strategies and understands WHY they work, not just how to execute them.
13. Capabilities based on the current game theory to develop new tactics and strategies that will flow and mesh in the game (hardest one to pull off.)
This is just a short list of what I define as a good NS player. There are a decent amount of things and most people can do a few of these things, but not all. The very best NS players are capable of completing all of these tasks.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->EDIT: And to just make shure that the clanner vs pubbers debate doesnt rise again:
Pubbers can live witheout clanners (no doubt) but clanners cannot live without pubbers, because the recruit themselves from clanners.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The game's numbers will continue to dwindle without a thriving clan scene due to the complexity and inherent competitive nature of the game.
I guess the question is, what do you define as "live?".
When the clan scene was booming the player base was well over 1,000. Now with a dwindling competitive base, as well as numerous other factors have caused the dimishing of the NS player base
Tomekki, don't play pubs. Go play on those countless 6v6 servers that I keep hearing about and stop your whining.
How about I say, when the pub scene was booming, the clan scene followed suit?
Tomekki, don't play pubs. Go play on those countless 6v6 servers that I keep hearing about and stop your whining.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hey smoodcroozn i hear you're so well liked on these forums they're making a website all about you
Tomekki, don't play pubs. Go play on those countless 6v6 servers that I keep hearing about and stop your whining.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
where did i ever mention 6v6 servers? re-read my previous post <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I really can't see the point in the angst, and actually find myself agreeing with this shiny, new, passive Fana. There are morons in every community, just some of them happen to aim better than others and end up being 'pro', some of them just ragequit off their pub of choice. I happen to only pub because I can't predict my gameplaying time very well, but I find them obnoxious wherever i meet them.
If you're not enjoying the game, for whatever reason, be it the game itself, or another player, just don't play. If you are, continue to play. If you can't get away from the obnoxious players, start your own server, or show yourself to be the responsible one deserving of admin on someone elses.
But none of the opinions stated that sweepingly state that pubs are full of such crybabies, or clanservers/pug's are full of elitist jerks really help. Unless you're tryng to troll intentionally I suppose, in which case you're helping your cause, I suppose. But then, you're a zero anyway. (Woo, I got to make one!)
- Shockwave
hey smoodcroozn i hear you're so well liked on these forums they're making a website all about you
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its definately extremely difficult to take him seriously, he parallels Jack Thompson with regards to ability to formulate argument as well as general intelligence levels.
LoL
It's been wanked about alot.
Personally it's still an awesome game. Yeah we complain about balance issues. Sure it's on the cluinky HL1 engine when we could be gazing at Source. No duh there's jerks and elitist. But still, people play it.
In my opinion, it's a decline on the part of the overall feel. Things are getting a little old, super new improvements haven't come for a while to make things fresh (except for a few awesome maps), and let's face it, they're busy building us a shiny new NS2.
I agree with those who say just play it if you enjoy it, stop if you don't.
As for pub vs. comp, I'd say it's a decline on both ends. Without good competitive to stimulate interest, you don't have as much public games. Without public games introducing and training new players, you don't get people going to competitive. It's not cause and effect, it's mutual. I'm a pub player due to time constraints, and my skill level is still way too nub to make it competitively.
in other words, it's like saying, "oh, that guy has Vans shoes, I bet he's a skater boi, and is cool and sociable" - behavior rampant amongst the emotionally underdeveloped and generally the stuff of childishness and adolescents.
the idea that bunnyhopping is a prereq for being a good NS player should be considered a cavemanesque vestigial mode of thinking on the same ranks of stereotyping, nationalism, prejudice, and the like; it's something most people exhibit during their formative years (middle school, waning throughout high school)--though some never grow out of it--and that people who are emotionally "grown up" don't dabble in.
in other words, it's like saying, "oh, that guy has Vans shoes, I bet he's a skater boi, and is cool and sociable" - behavior rampant amongst the emotionally underdeveloped and generally the stuff of childishness and adolescents.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
why are you making such a big deal over it? air control is just a part of understanding how the game works
I'm not sure whether ubermensch's post is meant in a sarcastic "I'm-acting-so-retarded-I'm-actually-making-fun-of-the-people-who-act-like-this" way or not, for his sake I hope it is.
Although I think he is overreacting, I agree that bhop isn't a prereq because a player who excels in a number of other areas will easily overcome that deficiency.
You need to possess almost all of the aforementioned skills to be a GREAT ns player, but just some of them to be good.
I think you need all of those attributes to a competent and good player, some other people may not.
I would define greatness by players who consistently beat "Good" players and are not just competent in those attributes I just listed, but excel better than the "good" players.
Its difficult to judge a good or great player just on pubs alone. Anyone can tear up a pub, because the range of skill in a pub is much more dyanamic and often lower end compared to those of scrims and matches.
Competence and Incompetence are defined in the present moment, but gradually become solidified over time. Meaning that you can be a "good" player, but play a bad game. You can also be a bad player and get lucky (it happens).
Thats why I set a long list of characteristics that I would find that one would need to be a good player. Just because you can beat the players around you does not make you "good" it just means you are better than those who are in the server. Whether those results generalize to other servers and situations would remain to be seen if said player wishes to see how far his or her skills can go.
This is why its common to see a lot of community members that play a lot of NS will say they are good, but will often times not want to form a team or join an existing team. I'm sure there are several reasons for this but I think one of the common reasons is that the people who habitually own a server they regular may not be able to generalize those same results in an environment where there is less of a margin of error. Several reasons for this is that the player may enjoy the respect and props that are given to top players in the server as well as the status that he or she perceives in the self. That respect/status probably will not generalize to the competitive setting as most likely the player will not have developed his or her skills to the point of top level player, simply because in public play a player does not have to be that good to earn respect on a server.
Thats why I listed those attributes. If a player can do all of those things, more often than not the pub environment should not be an issue and the player would also be a skilled competitive player as well. Those who can really excel at those attributes will become the top competitive players, thus the highest skilled out of any category.