Combat discussion?
bulldog121985
Join Date: 2007-04-29 Member: 60764Members
Join Date: 2007-04-29 Member: 60764Members
<div class="IPBDescription">where?</div>I've looked and searched through the forums a bit and after about 15 whiner posts and nothing else of any worth i decided it'd be better to just ask. Is there any good discussion about combat anywhere? anything is useful, character level builds, keyboard layouts. or just general strategy. really anything that could help a person to play better
Ok here is a compiled list of some important parts post any suggestions for this and i'll update as frequently as i can. If you find any problems or have a different opinion than i do post it. I'm just providing reasoning not opinions here. If i made a mistake just tell me and give me a constructive reason or it's not going to get changed.
<u>Marines</u>
Resupply - this is a very important level to take but as some pointed out it can hurt you to take it too early. If you find yourself not getting killed right, away take this later.
Jetpack - at First glance someone playing this game might not think this skill is of any importance. This is short sighted, the advantage to taking a jetpack is that you can get to where the action is faster increasing you exp over time. Also the ever annoying devour from onos can be avoided by just staying high enough in the air.
Weapons - This is a matter of preferance. The light machine gun is not a good weapon but the other three have their own advantages.
Shotgun -
advantages - costs less, can reload a number of shells and keep going, doens't need to be full.
disadvangaes - less damage than hmg (need confirmation), doesn't work well at a distance
Heavy Machine gun -
advantages - high damage, large clip.
disadvantages - costs one more level than the shotgun. Takes a lot of time to reload
Grenade launcher
advantages - area of effect damage
disadvantages - small clip(only 4 grenades). you spend most of the time reloading
<u>XMENU</u>
Uranium ammo - This skill can be very important under any marine build. Later in the game there will be very tough aliens and this is the way to take them down.
<u>Aliens</u>
aliens are pretty complex, it might take me a little while to finish all my thoughts
*celerity is a useful skill for any type of alien because most of the alien's attacks require melee range
*carapace and regen are both useful skills simply because they help you stay alive
skulk -
*Leap is very usefull to cover distances fast
*try using stealth tactics(corners, dark hallways etc.... for skills: silence and cloaking)
gorge - there is a "battle gorge" and a "protector gorge" setup but i don't have much information
lerk -
*adren is nice for starting lerks they use a lot of energy to fly.
fade -
*focus is a great skill for a fade
onos -
*stomp is a useful skill to stop marines because the onos is a slower unit.
*Many people take redemption as an onos
<u>XMENU</u>
Thickened skin - this is usefull to make a very defencive skulk, It's a usefull skill for anyone who doesn't want to die
Scent of the ancients -
Skulk - added damage to parasite is pretty useless late game
gorge - for longer games this is very usefull for a gorge healing the hive
lerk - being able to damage heavy armor with gas is usefull.
fade - most fade charecters don't use much adren on their blinks so it's not very usefull
Onos - eating more people is always a good friday night!
Ok here is a compiled list of some important parts post any suggestions for this and i'll update as frequently as i can. If you find any problems or have a different opinion than i do post it. I'm just providing reasoning not opinions here. If i made a mistake just tell me and give me a constructive reason or it's not going to get changed.
<u>Marines</u>
Resupply - this is a very important level to take but as some pointed out it can hurt you to take it too early. If you find yourself not getting killed right, away take this later.
Jetpack - at First glance someone playing this game might not think this skill is of any importance. This is short sighted, the advantage to taking a jetpack is that you can get to where the action is faster increasing you exp over time. Also the ever annoying devour from onos can be avoided by just staying high enough in the air.
Weapons - This is a matter of preferance. The light machine gun is not a good weapon but the other three have their own advantages.
Shotgun -
advantages - costs less, can reload a number of shells and keep going, doens't need to be full.
disadvangaes - less damage than hmg (need confirmation), doesn't work well at a distance
Heavy Machine gun -
advantages - high damage, large clip.
disadvantages - costs one more level than the shotgun. Takes a lot of time to reload
Grenade launcher
advantages - area of effect damage
disadvantages - small clip(only 4 grenades). you spend most of the time reloading
<u>XMENU</u>
Uranium ammo - This skill can be very important under any marine build. Later in the game there will be very tough aliens and this is the way to take them down.
<u>Aliens</u>
aliens are pretty complex, it might take me a little while to finish all my thoughts
*celerity is a useful skill for any type of alien because most of the alien's attacks require melee range
*carapace and regen are both useful skills simply because they help you stay alive
skulk -
*Leap is very usefull to cover distances fast
*try using stealth tactics(corners, dark hallways etc.... for skills: silence and cloaking)
gorge - there is a "battle gorge" and a "protector gorge" setup but i don't have much information
lerk -
*adren is nice for starting lerks they use a lot of energy to fly.
fade -
*focus is a great skill for a fade
onos -
*stomp is a useful skill to stop marines because the onos is a slower unit.
*Many people take redemption as an onos
<u>XMENU</u>
Thickened skin - this is usefull to make a very defencive skulk, It's a usefull skill for anyone who doesn't want to die
Scent of the ancients -
Skulk - added damage to parasite is pretty useless late game
gorge - for longer games this is very usefull for a gorge healing the hive
lerk - being able to damage heavy armor with gas is usefull.
fade - most fade charecters don't use much adren on their blinks so it's not very usefull
Onos - eating more people is always a good friday night!
Comments
1. Keep walker skulking into marines
2. Leech off latejoin points and keep going higher lifeforms, such as lerk, fade, and onos.
3. Just walk into marines while attacking until either you or all marines are dead
4. Repeat #3 as necessary
On marines:
1. Stick to other marines like glue. The closer you are, the better, since you can leech exp off other people who can aim. Strength in numbers!
2. Rush grenade launcher
3. Fire your GL around randomly
4. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
5. PROFIT
On aliens:
1. Keep walker skulking into marines
2. Leech off latejoin points and keep going higher lifeforms, such as lerk, fade, and onos.
3. Just walk into marines while attacking until either you or all marines are dead
4. Repeat #3 as necessary
On marines:
1. Stick to other marines like glue. The closer you are, the better, since you can leech exp off other people who can aim. Strength in numbers!
2. Rush grenade launcher
3. Fire your GL around randomly
4. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
5. PROFIT
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thanks for the input, thats stuff i knew just from self learning but it's a good place to start.
On aliens:
1. Keep walker skulking into marines
2. Leech off latejoin points and keep going higher lifeforms, such as lerk, fade, and onos.
3. Just walk into marines while attacking until either you or all marines are dead
4. Repeat #3 as necessary
On marines:
1. Stick to other marines like glue. The closer you are, the better, since you can leech exp off other people who can aim. Strength in numbers!
2. Rush grenade launcher
3. Fire your GL around randomly
4. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
5. PROFIT
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Please don't ever join my team.
On a more serious note...
Strategy depends heavily on whether you are on an extra levels server or not. The vast majority are, and in that case your build order is not quite as critical. Here's what I usually do as alien, cut off accordingly if its only 10 levels:
<b>FADE:</b>
Leap
Focus
Fade
Celerity
Carapace
Scent of Fear
Addren
Silence
Regen
<b>LERK:</b>
Lerk
Celerity
Carapace
Addren
Scent of Fear
Silence
Regen
<b>Super Skulk:</b>
Same as fade pretty much
<b>Onos:</b>
I pretty much never go onos, but when I do:
Celerity
Onos
Redemption
Carapace
Scent of Fear
Stomp
Regen
Silence
For <b>Marine</b> its almost always the same:
Weapons 1
Shotgun
Armor 1
Armor 2
Jetpack
Resupply
Weapons 2
Motion hacking
Weapons 3
HMG if I start seeing a lot of higher lifeforms and my team already has other players hitting the hive
The vast majority of good players take resupply right off the bat. I find that by skipping right to shotty and JP I usually end up doing better than players who I know are more skilled than me. If you have just a few good streaks you can have JP in an amazingly quick timespan to start nailing the hive.
Don't use xmenu, buildmenu, or nvg
Don't double up on upgrades on aliens(ie regen and cara at the same time)
Experiment with different upgrades. I prefer silence to celerity so I'm a silence/cara fade for a good 5, 10, 15 minutes depending on the skill level and xp level of the marines. I'm not very good so I'll usually have to break down in get focus sooner or later, but I used to get SoF all the time.
Kain's builds are good but find what you like. I used to get resupply first now I rush mt into shotgun. Just play around because there really isn't an "ultimate build", it all depends what you like, what you're good at, etc.
This is (usually) my build on aliens:
ability 2 (leap)
silence (sometimes replaced for celerity, which is what I would get if I were playing NS)
cara
fade
focus
ability 3(acid rocket)
Bulldog, I think Underwhelmed was joking. Please don't take those suggestions <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
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I was kidding, but that doesn't make my comments any less true. What I described is about what 80% of the combat playing population does. Can't skulk/lerk/fade worth a damn? No problem, just go onos and you become a huge meatshield that can plow through several marines before redeeming back to the hive!
First they made combat for people who couldn't play NS very well. Then Depot made xmenu for people who couldn't play NS at all.
First they made combat for people who couldn't play NS very well. Then Depot made xmenu for people who couldn't play NS at all.
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Thanks, but I cannot take credit for something I did not create. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Is there a specific question you have about combat? I'd start with that. Figure out what exactly it is that you want to know. General questions don't engender intelligent discussion (generally speaking).
EDIT: The most important thing to remember in combat is -- your kills don't matter as much as how many times THEY kill YOU. It doesn't matter where your name is on the scoreboard -- if your deaths are higher then your kills (ignoring xeno) -- then you need to be more careful or try a different tactic.
I also always play combat as classic. aka.. one upgrade a chamber. If I got cara.. I am never gona get another DC upgrade. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
it helps. extra leves make it even better since ya train against insane odds
hive 2
hive 3
adren
celerity
silence
Now you can stay xeno skulk, go AR Fade, do some web-gorging or assist your oni with primal-scream as lerk.
Going Onos is usually not such a good idea with this build.
Marines:
Kill hive in 2 minutes or prepare to get beaten, until at least half of your team has GLs.
This is (usually) my build on aliens:
ability 2 (leap)
silence (sometimes replaced for celerity, which is what I would get if I were playing NS)
cara
fade
focus
ability 3(acid rocket)
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oO
Thats 10 points to my knowledge.
silence, cara, hive 2 are 1 points each
hive 2 and focus are 2 points each
fade is 3 points
Thats 10 points overall with 9 available. Did they change the focus cost back to 1 (Dont use focus in combat, so I dont know <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />)
I'm not sure if co has made a better or worse lerk, since i get plenty of points, but it also gives a false sense of security on ns_ maps. Even when i limit myself to only a few upgrades, marines are more interested in shooting the onoses and fades so the lerk gets shot at less, where in ns_, the higher lifeforms are more rare and the lerk ends up being the prize kill in most cases. If i ns lerked like I colerk i would die instantly.
if you arent interested in ns_, i would go celerity -> silence / hive2 -> save for lifeform -> whatever works best for the lifeform you choose
As for marines <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> i guess rush a lvl 3 shottie (resupply somewhere along the way) and pwn whatever the hell flies at you. then go for a jetpack to finish them off.
You're right. I was thinking about that as I was posting but I almost never run into vanilla co servers. If I were to find one I would definitely go celerity instead of silence and skip focus for hive three. I'd then either save the extra point to go onos or get SoF if I felt like it.
weapon 1
shotgun
cybernetics 1
cybernetics 2
cybernetics 3
cybernetics 4
cybernetics 5
weapon 2
weapon 3
My response to the OP is to play ns maps and forget combat. You'll learn more (especially considering how many combat servers run game-altering plugins) and in my personal opinion enjoy it more than combat.
I can't really say much more, I try to avoid CO because I don't have much fun with more than 6 vs 6 to 8 vs 8 and because I stink at it. I stink at aiming, and I like being gorge <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />.
Marine:
Respply
Damage 1
Shotgun
Armor 1
Armor 2
Save
Jetpack
Dmg 2
Dmg 3
a very standard, enjoyable upgrade set. I'd recommend it.
Alien:
Leap
Save
Lerk
Fade
Save
Focus
Celerity
Regen
Carapce
Very flexible order, very solid upgrade set if you like to fade IMHO.
The topic is 'Combat discussion'. Why do you insist on 'pruning' selective comments that negatively reflect on combat. How exactly is making a statement that combat was intended to fill servers to foster ns_* games instead of training new players worthy of being removed?
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The topic started was directed towards tips, builds, etc... and I'm not removing posts based on CO bias, only on content and topic discussion. A post of "LOL combat SUX" isn't going to stick around.
Actually I'm pretty sure Leon said that, and what he actually said was " We don't discuss irrelevant gameplay modes " which is co bashing even if you consider the wording flowery. I understand your intention digz, I just think you should have left everything except Leon's first comment.
Another tip for combat(or NS) is play both sides. Keep trying to figure out how to beat yourself on the other team with strategy and timing.
I think you're attributing this point retroactively but regardless I disagree. I've managed to get use out of combat and I think the average new player could too as long as they're curious enough and encouraged to try new things. Not everyone who plays combat will play NS; this point has been made. Still <i>no</i> new comabt players will get training use out of combat if we don't answer questions like this.
Can someone also post their keyboard layouts, the only major change I've made is turned on fast switch and bound +movement to mouse2 for aliens.