Bunnyhopping!
Haze
O RLY? Join Date: 2003-07-07 Member: 18018Members, Constellation
O RLY? Join Date: 2003-07-07 Member: 18018Members, Constellation
I'm going to say that I'm probably biased as I say this, because I'm a terrible shot as a marine and can't bunnyhop for the life of me on aliens. I'm a decent commander, but only when marines follow my orders to an extreme point, and often mid way through the game I accumulate an abundance of res and forget what I'm doing. My proto lab never sees the light of day when I'm sitting on a mound of cash.
Anyways - <b>Bunnyhopping.</b> It's something thats widely regarded as a requirement in order to play aliens effectively, and for the most part, its true. I don't disagree with it. My main view on bunnyhopping is that its simply annoying to learn, and everyone keeps telling me that I need to bind all my keys differently to do it. Its annoying to have to come from another FPS and switch around all of my controls just so I can move a little quicker and be harder to hit where the majority of the game functions relatively the same as any other FPS (from a very basic controls standpoint, if you catch my drift here).
Either remove bunnyhopping, or remove this incredibly frustrating amount of practice it takes just to be able to do it. From my understanding, the great majority of the community can bunnyhop in their sleep. There is no 'middle ground' from what I've seen, and there are only two sides: Those who <i>can,</i> and those who <i>can't.</i>
If bunnyhopping truely is such a <b>central</b> part of this game's operation then integrate it fully and make it easy for new players to pick up. If it was something that wasn't a requirement of the game and didn't have such a huge impact on gameplay then I'd think differently, but the fact is that its not something incredibly easy for someone who comes home from work or school every day and plays for a few hours tops. They get turned away from the game quickly. Its just an unnecessary complication that NS throws in the face of players that needs to be removed or made easy to do.
I'm not here to tell you to remove skill entirely. I'm not telling you to make skulks 25% impervious to bullets so we don't have to dodge them. I'm not telling you to make us 50% invisible all the time to make it so we don't have to hide. I'm not asking for one shot kills or a huge bite radius so we don't have to aim. <u><b>I'm asking for a skill deemed <i>basic</i> to only require <i>basic</i> skill to operate,</u> or to be taken out fully and aliens' speed adjusted accordingly.</b>
Anyways - <b>Bunnyhopping.</b> It's something thats widely regarded as a requirement in order to play aliens effectively, and for the most part, its true. I don't disagree with it. My main view on bunnyhopping is that its simply annoying to learn, and everyone keeps telling me that I need to bind all my keys differently to do it. Its annoying to have to come from another FPS and switch around all of my controls just so I can move a little quicker and be harder to hit where the majority of the game functions relatively the same as any other FPS (from a very basic controls standpoint, if you catch my drift here).
Either remove bunnyhopping, or remove this incredibly frustrating amount of practice it takes just to be able to do it. From my understanding, the great majority of the community can bunnyhop in their sleep. There is no 'middle ground' from what I've seen, and there are only two sides: Those who <i>can,</i> and those who <i>can't.</i>
If bunnyhopping truely is such a <b>central</b> part of this game's operation then integrate it fully and make it easy for new players to pick up. If it was something that wasn't a requirement of the game and didn't have such a huge impact on gameplay then I'd think differently, but the fact is that its not something incredibly easy for someone who comes home from work or school every day and plays for a few hours tops. They get turned away from the game quickly. Its just an unnecessary complication that NS throws in the face of players that needs to be removed or made easy to do.
I'm not here to tell you to remove skill entirely. I'm not telling you to make skulks 25% impervious to bullets so we don't have to dodge them. I'm not telling you to make us 50% invisible all the time to make it so we don't have to hide. I'm not asking for one shot kills or a huge bite radius so we don't have to aim. <u><b>I'm asking for a skill deemed <i>basic</i> to only require <i>basic</i> skill to operate,</u> or to be taken out fully and aliens' speed adjusted accordingly.</b>
Comments
Also I don't know about the great majority being able to do it. I hardly EVER see it from non-clanners.
<b>So if you learn it, good for you. If you don't, rely more on ambush and strategy.</b>
Bind jump to mousewheel or use my 90000 jump script because I am too lazy to make it shorter.
alias "jumper" "+jump; wait; -jump; wait"
alias "hop" "jumper; jumper; jumper; jumper; jumper; jumper; jumper; jumper"
Now it is your turn to figure out what mouse movement works out for you.
Bhopping isn't that difficult to get started. The basic rule is to minimize the contact to the ground and to maximize the smooth turning while you're touch the ground. There are some tutorials around to explain it better.
Anyway, after you understand the very basic mechanics, you can train bhop almost any time. Every time you're running a long hallway, try bhopping it instead. It doesn't force you to spend more time on ns or anything, just use your gaming time a bit better. I haven't seen that many people that have tried to learn it but are unable to do it, so its probably just a matter of getting started.
E:
If you want to try bhopping out:
I recall some players recommending <a href="http://fidosrevenge.com/bhop/" target="_blank">this one.</a>
I probably learned most by creating a lan server and hopping between the marine start and c12 on veil while keeping an eye on speed ratings. Create a lan server and type sv_cheats 1 and then cl_showspeed 1 in your console and start experimenting with the ground speed rating.
Oh yeh and since quite a few servers do instigate bs_1 it's best to learn to bhop using +jump bound to your mousewheel. <a href="http://www.levitacus.com/?p=39" target="_blank">http://www.levitacus.com/?p=39</a> there's a good guide about bhopping/skulking in general (was trying to find the flash video but nslearn seems to be down).
That said, it's pretty easy. And you shouldn't have to change your controls, haze. If you're a skulk, hold crouch so you don't wall-walk. String together strafe jumps left and right, move your mouse with them, and find a way to spam a bunch of jumps right as you land so you don't cling to the ground, either a script or the mousewheel, usually.
It can't really be made easier. It's an artifact of how the HL engine lets you move while in the air and how it caps your speed on the ground.
That said, it's pretty easy. And you shouldn't have to change your controls, haze. If you're a skulk, hold crouch so you don't wall-walk. String together strafe jumps left and right, move your mouse with them, and find a way to spam a bunch of jumps right as you land so you don't cling to the ground, either a script or the mousewheel, usually.
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well, the mod science and industry has a much easier bhop; I'm pretty sure they coded default jump to be akin to a +3jump script where you don't need to be as accurate in timing the jumps
personally I love bhopping and can acheive slightly decent speeds, but haven't checked numbers in a while.
You do not <i>need</i> special controls to bhop. Some people can't do it on their own, and need extra help, and that's their issue. I've known people who could do it amazingly w/o any scripts/special binds.
If bhopping were removed from NS, I would stop playing.
Stop being so stubborn, there's a reason why everyone does it a different way to you :]
Bunnyhopping itself is a useful skill but not necessary, what learning bunnyhopping however signifies is that you can grasp HL air control, making it easier to maximise the potential of all the classes.
The fact that you think bunnyhopping is required to be an effective alien shows me that you don't know a thing about it. Bunnyhopping is not a requirement to play alien. It's a helpful boost to travel speeds and occasionally helps on the approach to attack marines, but it's not going to make or break your game. If you're bad at alien it's not because you can't bunnyhop. Nobody gets an uber kill ratio as a skulk by bunnyhopping all over the place and killing everybody. Any marine worth his salt will kill you regardless if you charge them from a long distance. Aiming and good judgement are 90% of being a good skulk.
If anything I think the lifeform that benefits most from bunnyhopping is the Gorge.
That's beside the point anyway. Bunnyhopping for aliens no longer requires you to hold down crouch(it used to be required because the skulk wallwalking system screwed it up). Your controls will work fine.
There are plenty of guides around that show you how to bunnyhop. You'd probably find it easier if you just found someone to hop on a server with you and show you how. It's a lot easier to learn if someone's showing you what you're doing wrong.
Bunnyhopping itself isn't really required for playing aliens anyway. It's useful for attacking entrenched marines, but you can get more kills from ambushing if you do it right.
@zek-I don't know, a bunnyhopping onos might top it.
I'd say the lifeform that benefits most is the fade, your knowledge of air control from bunnyhopping when fading will save your life countless times. It's what gets you out of the room 2 seconds earliar, it's what stops you hitting random obstacles, it's what keeps your movement flowing and allows you to respond quickly to incidents across the map. It will have a profound effect on your ability.
Well you dont have to hold crouch anymore with the new wallwalking stuff.
I'd say the lifeform that benefits most is the fade, your knowledge of air control from bunnyhopping when fading will save your life countless times. It's what gets you out of the room 2 seconds earliar, it's what stops you hitting random obstacles, it's what keeps your movement flowing and allows you to respond quickly to incidents across the map. It will have a profound effect on your ability.
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Air control is another thing entirely, if you don't know how to control yourself in mid-air then you can't play Skulk or Fade effectively at all. Bunnyhopping is a much more specific trick.
It's unlikely you'll have <b>good</b> aircontrol if you can't bunnyhop. The two aren't mutually exclusive, but my experience suggests air control generally follows on from learning to bunnyhop.
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I learned it the other way around.
Bhopping is probably most useful for traveling from point to point - being able to respond faster really helps aliens defend.
I learned it in a empty server with a buddy in a long hallway in eclipse. Indeed, when you get past the 'I need to use forward to move' it aint to hard.
a few things:
* swing mouse left while strafing left
* swing mouse right while strafing right
* press jump each time you hit the ground
* switch on time between strafes and swings. (when you hit the ground, switch)
If you can hit your jump and both strafe keys with easy, you can bunnyhop. The swing will be done by mouse.
I learned it the other way around.
Bhopping is probably most useful for traveling from point to point - being able to respond faster really helps aliens defend.
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Well it depends per person but i definately saw a giant increase in my fade blinking accuracy once I learned to skulk well. Sure i've known how to bhop for a long time, but i've only really been able to bhop properly with v. good air control (people still claim I tank) for just over a year now. And i'm sure Ben can vouch for my wall blinking antics back in semper fi <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Mastering air control takes time, now I honestley haven't seen anyone besides pantsu (who I believe has quit NS to play cs in a pro clan) who can control a fade more accurately than me (in air movement and swipe accuracy) and i've been main fading in comp NS since 2.0 (getting on 3 years now i'd guess).
But continuing my earlier comment and agreeing with underwhelmed, bhopping mainly is used for quickly travelling across maps to respond to marine pressure as well as rushing rine mantrains. As i'm sure many of you have noticed a skulk cleverly strafing across a floor is 3x harder to hit than a bhopping skulk.
Best way i found to learn bhopping was the long corridor between Gen hive and Aux Gen on ns_caged, the corridor is long and wide, what more could you need <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
As far as the speed meter, what is a speed range that indicates a good hop?
The best I could do was 629 with celerity. But I still can't keep it going more than a few times if even that.
I've tried to learn to hop a few times, but I always just get too frustrated.
As far as the speed meter, what is a speed range that indicates a good hop?
The best I could do was 629 with celerity. But I still can't keep it going more than a few times if even that.
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Without celerity your groundspeed should be around 500. Every time you touch the ground it will drop to 492.
I found that bunnyhopping is easiest to learn using gorge. For some reason its easier to time the jumps even without using a script.
But, im very good at the single-shot Bhop; i can pretty much gain the maximum amount of increase speed off of a single jump, including marines. This is also due to the fact that i use completely vanilla ns.
Meaning i use the spacebar to jump. Repeat: spacebar to jump.
Even as such, when i'm on my game and have cel, players sometimes comment on the insane speed i can reach as a skulk. Hitting the spacebar for the extreme speeds takes a lot, and is unreliable in practice, but for generally good-to-high speeds, it works.
ALL YOU HAVE TO REALLY KNOW about bunnyhopping, is that when you jump, you're turning AND STRAFING in the same direction. People give angles and all that, screw that. You'll get a feel for it, starting the instant you 'realize' how it works.
Note: its much easier to bhop as a skulk when you have Cel. MUCH easier.
So just start running, and jump... but instantly start moving your mouse to, say, the left. Also, strafe left (hold A). You'll naturally be doing a ) motion, and to compensate, people usually look to the right first (so that, after the ')' motion, you're aimed forward). Try to time it so you jump the instant you land, or get a jump script. And then do it the opposite way, or keep doing it the same way.
And practice.
I never checked my speed in numbers, but a non celerity bunnyhopping gorge CAN outrun a marine. (corners adviced, rine is a long range fighter)
I can sorta bhop, but I can only get the full speed increase less than 5 percent of the time. Having a notn trackball mouse and a real mousepadhelps.
BHOP is for speed, but I prefer ambushing
How would lerks glide? How would jps "cruise" along?
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It would probably be pretty easy to exclude jps and lerks if they were to alter how jump worked.
I would love to have easier bhopping, but I'd prefer if I was able to press more than 2 keys at a time. The keypad (the number keypad where you need numberlock to activate the numbers) has straightly aligned keys at the price of 2 keys max at a time. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
I move by:
forward g
backwards h
strafeleft f
straferight j
jump space
duck m
last used weapon alt gr
use key u
reload r
chat y
teamchat t
voice c
walk k
never had trouble with hitting more then one key. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />