NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
I must be really, really bad at this game. I think I've been playing the second level for like, I don't know, three hours, and I haven't made any progress at all. I'm not <i>losing</i>, but I'm certainly not winning (insert Iraq war joke here).
<!--quoteo(post=1604616:date=Feb 7 2007, 08:35 PM:name=Quaunaut)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Quaunaut @ Feb 7 2007, 08:35 PM) [snapback]1604616[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Futhermore, the rock-paper-scissors format is more painful here than ever before- a single anti-ground turret managed to take my 40 assault-vehicle force down to 25 before they could mass it down- yet, they were able to take 80(!) of the light assault vehicles without losing 10 of themselves! Its a little crazy there. Really, at a point, effectiveness needs to have a limit. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are saying that how many of a unit you have should decide whether you win or not? Uh huh.
This game scales up VERY high with better tier vehicles and buildings. You shouldn't expect to be able to destroy a tech 2 or 3 turret with a bunch of tech 1 vehicles. And there is a reason they have so many long ranged artillery units, use them.
Also, if you want your forces to move together evenly, don't just click directly where you want them to go. Set waypoints for them so they don't try to walk over obstacles. This game is fairly slowly paced, you don't have to rush in your units right that second. Take the time to move them together by hand. Tell your artillery to fire for awhile. When you are sure things are dead send in your short range stuff. Don't tell them all to attack and expect everything to go over well.
Building lots of structures is incredibly easy as well. Just click and drag, instant line of buildings.
<!--quoteo(post=1604652:date=Feb 8 2007, 02:50 PM:name=Xyth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Xyth @ Feb 8 2007, 02:50 PM) [snapback]1604652[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You are saying that how many of a unit you have should decide whether you win or not? Uh huh. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Water beats fire. I attack forty hectares of burning bush with my bucket of water. Water wins!
You need <i>some</i> sense of scale, mate. I haven't played the game, but blanket statements like that are nobody's friends.
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
Yeah, I have to agree here. I understand there are hard counters, but it's so extreme as to be almost unfun. When I play Company of Heroes I know if I zerg one machine gun nest with enough crappy volksgrenadiers I'll kill it eventually, especially if I use more than one brain cell and hit it from the side. With Supreme Commander it doesn't seem to matter much how many units I send at a turret unless the number is so overwhelming as to be downright absurd. Defending my own base was also obscenely easy, even on hard difficulties - just bomb crap right as it hits your turret line and it'll be vaporized in seconds, no matter how many units they throw at you.
Turtling != fun. Anyway, I'll go back to never using this forum again (not sure why I'm here anyway . . . ).
My experience with the beta is that it gets a lot better once you stick at it for a little while. Get to know the nuances of stuff and stuff. It picks up a lot in the fun factor once you get your mind around the basics.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1604684:date=Feb 7 2007, 10:52 PM:name=emperor_awesome)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(emperor_awesome @ Feb 7 2007, 10:52 PM) [snapback]1604684[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Water beats fire. I attack forty hectares of burning bush with my bucket of water. Water wins!
You need <i>some</i> sense of scale, mate. I haven't played the game, but blanket statements like that are nobody's friends. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or, in lamens terms: Eventually, that water's gonna evaporate.
<!--quoteo(post=1604629:date=Feb 7 2007, 09:21 PM:name=DOOManiac)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DOOManiac @ Feb 7 2007, 09:21 PM) [snapback]1604629[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I wanted to like this game. I really did. It was hyped so well, the previews looked so good.
It's way too complicated, and I have no idea WTH I'm supposed to be doing besides the generic stuff you do in every RTS, which I thought the whole point of the game was to get away from. It seems like pure micromanagement hell too, which makes me sad.
And it runs absolutely terrible even on the lowest settings, even on my not-rock-bottom-of-the-requirements-list PC. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You realized you can queue orders right?
I've been hearing mostly the opposite, that the game is too braindead. It's like TA, but there's only 1 path to victory, teching up and getting the huge stuff. The defence structures are apparently way too powerful, preventing early game combat from being decisive, and the high level stuff is so economically under priced that it completely invalidates everything lower on the tech chain.
I think you guys still aren't understanding the scale of this game correctly. Alot of units in this game isn't 2-3 times a normal army of higher tech units like in starcraft or C&C, it's 15-20 times as many. it's VERY easy to run 20 factories non-stop if indeed that's what you want to do. It's an exponential growth in power between different techs of units, so your army size will have to increase exponentially as well. You could win a game in C&C with 1 well placed unit, that isn't the case in this game.
The game is about macro-management on a scale that I haven't seen before in any other games. If you set your mind to it you can get to the point where you can make experimentals (lol monkeybot lol) at the same rate you could create tech 2 units. Even when the game reaches that point you can bust out the nukes and wipe them out with ease. Even THEN you can build the experimental artillery and use that to totally destroy the enemies base from clear across the map.
You win not be having the most of 1 type of unit, but you win by using everything you have to it's full potential, destroy their big units with tech 3 bombers, soften their defense with artillery inside your base, bombard the soft parts of their base with ships, wipe out their reserve units with a nuclear inferno.
So after a couple of times haveing it handed to my by their mother fugging Soul Raper ship (which loves to go straight for the ACU) I decided to be superior on the naval side. I teched it up to 2 and 3 then built 8 big boats and 5 submarines, the enemys own navy was way inferior BUT as I reach their harbours I notice a huage thing in the water, their monkey bot. Why in hell is that thing even allowed to go under water then missile rape my battleships while my puny subs try to make it flinch?
Everything went chaos when I first built the experimental artillery, each shot sucks 30.000 power or so which made the plus/minus economy thing go nuts and not displaying something concrete.
Oh and the radar/visual cloaking is annoing as ###### hell, my base started exploding randomly but nothing had made it trough my barricade on both sides of the middle map, and nothing showed up on the radar, not even the tech 3 radar. My own artillery didnt seem to know what it was doing as their base was almost unharmed after several minutes of bombarding.
The best way, I've found, to take care of people who put their experimentals underwater is just to get 40 or so torpedo bombers. Since it's underwater it isn't allowed to use it's anti-air weapons, so it will die in short order vs some air deployed torpedoes.
<!--quoteo(post=1604877:date=Feb 8 2007, 09:01 PM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Feb 8 2007, 09:01 PM) [snapback]1604877[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Xyth = mastah strategist <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->or just stating the bleedin' obvious :X At least with the torpedo bombers vs. monkeylord :X
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
I played the beta and the game certainly felt rather strong. Great graphics, humongous unit and building selection and interesting gameplay. Much like TA, but at the same time a little different.
I'll DL and play the demo and see if it's worth buying the full game (for the multiplayer experience of course. SP with TA? bite me.)
<!--quoteo(post=1604624:date=Feb 7 2007, 08:53 PM:name=Zig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zig @ Feb 7 2007, 08:53 PM) [snapback]1604624[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> i'm pretty much in the same boat. it's very fancy, yes.. but it seems like there are certain features that are so much more polished than others.
i built a force of about 100 dudes, one part heavy assault guys, one part artillery, and one part AA. i massed them at that central pass, and they all got into a sprawling but orderly formation, which looks super impressive.
however..
i order them to advance, and they sluggishly begin, one by one and row by row, to move in the general direction of where i clicked. why not stay in rows and just advance? eventually they had to turn a corner around a hillside. i order them to move to the other side and about 70% of the force gets hung up on the hillside and gives up even trying to get around, while the 10% that have already made it there are engaging the enemy!!
you'd figure that if the whole force moves in formation to cross the pass east, and then moves in formation south to attack the enemy, you'd be devoting that whole formation to the battle! apparently not.
they'll probably fix these kinds of things, but altogether i think it's just not for me.
on the other hand, i have very, very high hopes for CnC3. i'm super psyched. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ctrl-click to formation move. You, lose. Also, alt-click makes them stop immidiately when in range of an attackable target, combining the two, does both. Also, whoever was angry about having to build Power-Gens, you can que up as many as you want in a single line drag, how is that massive micromanagement? o_O O_o
Finally I freackin won. The AI was flawed though, I just took his the north beach from the middle with 3 tech 2 missile units, a couple of repair bots and held it. He dosnt seem to be able to build anywhere else then there, in the main base he had only 2 factories, a couple tech 2 power gens and some tech 1 structures.
Damn nukes takes time to build, first about 20 min for the structure then 10min for each nuke, geez. Talking about long build times, I have never seen the Plan B sub get finished, the build time must be, 40 minutes or something.
It's actually getting fun though <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1604914:date=Feb 8 2007, 11:26 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Feb 8 2007, 11:26 PM) [snapback]1604914[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Finally I freackin won. The AI was flawed though, I just took his the north beach from the middle with 3 tech 2 missile units, a couple of repair bots and held it. He dosnt seem to be able to build anywhere else then there, in the main base he had only 2 factories, a couple tech 2 power gens and some tech 1 structures.
Damn nukes takes time to build, first about 20 min for the structure then 10min for each nuke, geez. Talking about long build times, I have never seen the Plan B sub get finished, the build time must be, 40 minutes or something.
It's actually getting fun though <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You aren't just letting it build slowly by itself are you?
<!--quoteo(post=1604926:date=Feb 8 2007, 11:43 PM:name=Rover)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rover @ Feb 8 2007, 11:43 PM) [snapback]1604926[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You aren't just letting it build slowly by itself are you? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They were mean not to include a tutorial in the demo...
Yes Iam letting it build by itself, I tried speeding it up with a engineer but it couldn't do anything :/ . The Plan B sub and the actual nukes that is. What's your tip?
Ugh, I haven't played it since the last beta, which I didn't like, but engy's should be able to speed building up. Try engineers of different levels? Also: make sure to stick several on each job.
<!--quoteo(post=1604900:date=Feb 8 2007, 01:17 PM:name=Khaim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Khaim @ Feb 8 2007, 01:17 PM) [snapback]1604900[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Ctrl-click to formation move. You, lose. Also, alt-click makes them stop immidiately when in range of an attackable target, combining the two, does both. Also, whoever was angry about having to build Power-Gens, you can que up as many as you want in a single line drag, how is that massive micromanagement? o_O O_o <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow there is a attack move option. Thanks for the tip. I like this game the more I play it.
<!--quoteo(post=1604929:date=Feb 9 2007, 08:49 AM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Feb 9 2007, 08:49 AM) [snapback]1604929[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> They were mean not to include a tutorial in the demo...
Yes Iam letting it build by itself, I tried speeding it up with a engineer but it couldn't do anything :/ . The Plan B sub and the actual nukes that is. What's your tip? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Surround your shipyard with dozens of T3 engineers then right click on your ship yard with them selected. They'll all assist the building of the sub and increase your matter and energy consumption fifty-fold. If you've got the infrastructure you can build as fast as you want.
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
Gah, I just discovered that the supcom demo does NOT have any multiplayer component?! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1604914:date=Feb 8 2007, 05:26 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Feb 8 2007, 05:26 PM) [snapback]1604914[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Damn nukes takes time to build, first about 20 min for the structure then 10min for each nuke, geez. Talking about long build times, I have never seen the Plan B sub get finished, the build time must be, 40 minutes or something. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They do take forever, but ooooh god they are worth it.
I forget where it says, but I remember there being a build-time listed in the information of each unit. That could give you a pretty good idea of how long to expect. I think the nuke launcher is 40 minutes, the Plan B sub is 80 minutes, the experimental artillry is 140 minutes, and most of the experimental robots are 20-30 minutes.
Comments
AMD 64-bit X4200+
NVidia GeForce 7900 256mb
2gb DDR400 RAM
Audigy X-Fi Fatal1ty
So...yeah. I'm running at full settings, max resolution, with an average FPS of 25. If I turn shadows down a notch, I jump up to 40 fps.
Oh, hi.
Futhermore, the rock-paper-scissors format is more painful here than ever before- a single anti-ground turret managed to take my 40 assault-vehicle force down to 25 before they could mass it down- yet, they were able to take 80(!) of the light assault vehicles without losing 10 of themselves! Its a little crazy there. Really, at a point, effectiveness needs to have a limit.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are saying that how many of a unit you have should decide whether you win or not? Uh huh.
This game scales up VERY high with better tier vehicles and buildings. You shouldn't expect to be able to destroy a tech 2 or 3 turret with a bunch of tech 1 vehicles. And there is a reason they have so many long ranged artillery units, use them.
Also, if you want your forces to move together evenly, don't just click directly where you want them to go. Set waypoints for them so they don't try to walk over obstacles. This game is fairly slowly paced, you don't have to rush in your units right that second. Take the time to move them together by hand. Tell your artillery to fire for awhile. When you are sure things are dead send in your short range stuff. Don't tell them all to attack and expect everything to go over well.
Building lots of structures is incredibly easy as well. Just click and drag, instant line of buildings.
You are saying that how many of a unit you have should decide whether you win or not? Uh huh.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Water beats fire. I attack forty hectares of burning bush with my bucket of water. Water wins!
You need <i>some</i> sense of scale, mate. I haven't played the game, but blanket statements like that are nobody's friends.
Turtling != fun. Anyway, I'll go back to never using this forum again (not sure why I'm here anyway . . . ).
Oh, hi.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What the hell? Who the hell?!
My experience with the beta is that it gets a lot better once you stick at it for a little while. Get to know the nuances of stuff and stuff. It picks up a lot in the fun factor once you get your mind around the basics.
--Scythe--
Water beats fire. I attack forty hectares of burning bush with my bucket of water. Water wins!
You need <i>some</i> sense of scale, mate. I haven't played the game, but blanket statements like that are nobody's friends.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or, in lamens terms: Eventually, that water's gonna evaporate.
I wanted to like this game. I really did. It was hyped so well, the previews looked so good.
It's way too complicated, and I have no idea WTH I'm supposed to be doing besides the generic stuff you do in every RTS, which I thought the whole point of the game was to get away from. It seems like pure micromanagement hell too, which makes me sad.
And it runs absolutely terrible even on the lowest settings, even on my not-rock-bottom-of-the-requirements-list PC.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You realized you can queue orders right?
I've been hearing mostly the opposite, that the game is too braindead. It's like TA, but there's only 1 path to victory, teching up and getting the huge stuff. The defence structures are apparently way too powerful, preventing early game combat from being decisive, and the high level stuff is so economically under priced that it completely invalidates everything lower on the tech chain.
The game is about macro-management on a scale that I haven't seen before in any other games. If you set your mind to it you can get to the point where you can make experimentals (lol monkeybot lol) at the same rate you could create tech 2 units. Even when the game reaches that point you can bust out the nukes and wipe them out with ease. Even THEN you can build the experimental artillery and use that to totally destroy the enemies base from clear across the map.
You win not be having the most of 1 type of unit, but you win by using everything you have to it's full potential, destroy their big units with tech 3 bombers, soften their defense with artillery inside your base, bombard the soft parts of their base with ships, wipe out their reserve units with a nuclear inferno.
Why in hell is that thing even allowed to go under water then missile rape my battleships while my puny subs try to make it flinch?
Everything went chaos when I first built the experimental artillery, each shot sucks 30.000 power or so which made the plus/minus economy thing go nuts and not displaying something concrete.
Oh and the radar/visual cloaking is annoing as ###### hell, my base started exploding randomly but nothing had made it trough my barricade on both sides of the middle map, and nothing showed up on the radar, not even the tech 3 radar. My own artillery didnt seem to know what it was doing as their base was almost unharmed after several minutes of bombarding.
So much to learn, ugh.
Xyth = mastah strategist
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You bettah habeeb it.
Xyth = mastah strategist
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->or just stating the bleedin' obvious :X At least with the torpedo bombers vs. monkeylord :X
I'll DL and play the demo and see if it's worth buying the full game (for the multiplayer experience of course. SP with TA? bite me.)
i'm pretty much in the same boat. it's very fancy, yes.. but it seems like there are certain features that are so much more polished than others.
i built a force of about 100 dudes, one part heavy assault guys, one part artillery, and one part AA. i massed them at that central pass, and they all got into a sprawling but orderly formation, which looks super impressive.
however..
i order them to advance, and they sluggishly begin, one by one and row by row, to move in the general direction of where i clicked. why not stay in rows and just advance? eventually they had to turn a corner around a hillside. i order them to move to the other side and about 70% of the force gets hung up on the hillside and gives up even trying to get around, while the 10% that have already made it there are engaging the enemy!!
you'd figure that if the whole force moves in formation to cross the pass east, and then moves in formation south to attack the enemy, you'd be devoting that whole formation to the battle! apparently not.
they'll probably fix these kinds of things, but altogether i think it's just not for me.
on the other hand, i have very, very high hopes for CnC3. i'm super psyched.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ctrl-click to formation move. You, lose. Also, alt-click makes them stop immidiately when in range of an attackable target, combining the two, does both. Also, whoever was angry about having to build Power-Gens, you can que up as many as you want in a single line drag, how is that massive micromanagement? o_O O_o
Damn nukes takes time to build, first about 20 min for the structure then 10min for each nuke, geez. Talking about long build times, I have never seen the Plan B sub get finished, the build time must be, 40 minutes or something.
It's actually getting fun though <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
Finally I freackin won. The AI was flawed though, I just took his the north beach from the middle with 3 tech 2 missile units, a couple of repair bots and held it. He dosnt seem to be able to build anywhere else then there, in the main base he had only 2 factories, a couple tech 2 power gens and some tech 1 structures.
Damn nukes takes time to build, first about 20 min for the structure then 10min for each nuke, geez. Talking about long build times, I have never seen the Plan B sub get finished, the build time must be, 40 minutes or something.
It's actually getting fun though <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You aren't just letting it build slowly by itself are you?
You aren't just letting it build slowly by itself are you?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They were mean not to include a tutorial in the demo...
Yes Iam letting it build by itself, I tried speeding it up with a engineer but it couldn't do anything :/ . The Plan B sub and the actual nukes that is.
What's your tip?
Ctrl-click to formation move. You, lose. Also, alt-click makes them stop immidiately when in range of an attackable target, combining the two, does both. Also, whoever was angry about having to build Power-Gens, you can que up as many as you want in a single line drag, how is that massive micromanagement? o_O O_o
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow there is a attack move option. Thanks for the tip. I like this game the more I play it.
They were mean not to include a tutorial in the demo...
Yes Iam letting it build by itself, I tried speeding it up with a engineer but it couldn't do anything :/ . The Plan B sub and the actual nukes that is.
What's your tip?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Surround your shipyard with dozens of T3 engineers then right click on your ship yard with them selected. They'll all assist the building of the sub and increase your matter and energy consumption fifty-fold. If you've got the infrastructure you can build as fast as you want.
--Scythe--
Damn nukes takes time to build, first about 20 min for the structure then 10min for each nuke, geez. Talking about long build times, I have never seen the Plan B sub get finished, the build time must be, 40 minutes or something.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They do take forever, but ooooh god they are worth it.
I forget where it says, but I remember there being a build-time listed in the information of each unit. That could give you a pretty good idea of how long to expect. I think the nuke launcher is 40 minutes, the Plan B sub is 80 minutes, the experimental artillry is 140 minutes, and most of the experimental robots are 20-30 minutes.