Best Of
Re: Why is everyone so upset?
Chimichanga wrote: »What if i told you... That MAYBE it is not UWE's fault ALL the time. MAYBE some hardware or software upgrades of your OWN is required. Because frankly? I do not have these so called performance issues everyone is talking about. I read alot about people who say their FPS sucks and frankly... Get a job... Earn money and then buy and freshen up your hardware and while you are at it, freshen up your drivers and software. You can find good parts for good prices all around the web.
Quick, someone replace the tech support forums with this golden nugget of pure knowledge. You heard it here folks, if the game doesn't work, buy a new PC. If it still doesn't work, its your fault anyway.
If you're fortunate enough not to be affected by some of the big performance issues people are having problems with then good for you. Giving the "buy a new PC" speech is one of the worst things you can bring up.
Re: Why is everyone so upset?
F0rdPrefect wrote: »No, I'm not.
I'm only trying to find out if there is more behind it.
Fair enough. Also, there is.
In that case let me give you some insight into why some people are upset.
Imagine, if you will, that you wanted buy a tomato. You saw this tomato in a catalog, it said the tomato would be nice, ripe and ready to eat. So you get to the store, pay up front and are then told that there was a mistake in the catalog and the tomato isn't there yet. In fact, it turns out that they only just planted the seeds. So you wait and wait, and you finally get told that your tomato has arrived. Unfortunately, you also get informed that your tomato isn't ripe yet. So after some more waiting, you finally get your tomato. You make your way to the checkout, but once you get there it turns out that somewhere along the way your tomato has turned into a banana. Now, some people like bananas, some people don't. But when the store manager makes you take a bite just to see weather its good for consumption, because he suspects it might be rotten, you may end up a little upset.
Re: Why are gorge webs on such a high techtree?
I think they're cautiosly introduced...no doubt, they will be tweaked soon, when more results are available..
Why I Love Vortex [Fade Video]
Here's me using vortex. Disliked the typical way people used it which was... 1) Vortex around corner 2) Run in 3) Swipe 4) Get vortex'd out 5) Repeat
I needed a way to effectively stay in combat and here's what I've come up with.
Note: Nothing is sped up. Recorded with fraps and rendered with Sony Vegas.
youtube.com/watch?v=Y4FLODk5Ukc (YouTube Link)
I'm still looking for comp team if anyone's interested (Link below)
forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/130983/gosu-looking-for-team#latest
I needed a way to effectively stay in combat and here's what I've come up with.
Note: Nothing is sped up. Recorded with fraps and rendered with Sony Vegas.
youtube.com/watch?v=Y4FLODk5Ukc (YouTube Link)
I'm still looking for comp team if anyone's interested (Link below)
forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/130983/gosu-looking-for-team#latest
Re: Biodome first impressions
Great map, there are some great spots. What iam missing about this map is a "garden-area" where skulks lerks can hunt marine in grass.
The assets are already there. Hunting marines in between of bamboo or something like this. (Maybe for the next map
)
Yeah vents, i think aliens need some more on this map. A example of a great vent system is veil so many vents where aliens can go in. In the north there could be 1-2 more vents.
Btw. had a bug 2min ago where some textures of biodome where black (seems that they weren´t loaded)
All in one great patch. Really like vortex for the fade.
The assets are already there. Hunting marines in between of bamboo or something like this. (Maybe for the next map
)Yeah vents, i think aliens need some more on this map. A example of a great vent system is veil so many vents where aliens can go in. In the north there could be 1-2 more vents.
Btw. had a bug 2min ago where some textures of biodome where black (seems that they weren´t loaded)
All in one great patch. Really like vortex for the fade.
Biodome first impressions
It's summit. 4 techs surrounding a center tech point in a strict wagon-wheel or hub-and-spoke design. You have an outer circle connecting all of the res nodes so you either travel on that outer line or through the center, no going around. Here's what I mean:
My biggest complaints ATM are too much glass, and the names of the important rooms take too long to say. Usually you want to bring it down to one syllable, like "flight" "pipe" "comp" "cross" or "sub". That's not always the case but it's definitely preferable. Many of the names in Biodome can't be broken down that simply. The glass issue just comes down to being able to reliably tell whether or not you have a clear line of fire, the simple fix is to discontinue use of windex and dirty up the glass a bit.
My biggest complaints ATM are too much glass, and the names of the important rooms take too long to say. Usually you want to bring it down to one syllable, like "flight" "pipe" "comp" "cross" or "sub". That's not always the case but it's definitely preferable. Many of the names in Biodome can't be broken down that simply. The glass issue just comes down to being able to reliably tell whether or not you have a clear line of fire, the simple fix is to discontinue use of windex and dirty up the glass a bit.
....... GORGE.......... Plush............
Found this on facebook.... Im gonna have to get one for my lil girl
Re: ....... GORGE.......... Plush............
No girl will ever step foot in my bed again
Gorge is all I ever really needed
Re: The current development strategy for NS2 prevents it from growing
No one is benefiting when the game is overhauled every few months. Developers lose because they are spending time refactoring existing content. Players lose because they have to relearn the game, balance is thrown out the window etc. It is obviously for the better of the game, but lets be honest, the general design should have been right the first time. Yes balance will obviously come later, but when I see things such as the basic alien tech tree have two overhauls in the past few months you have to wonder if there are even any high level visions going on.
Build 254 / Biodome Technical Issues (Updated for Build 255)
The Reinforced Update looks great although I have to admit that I haven't actually "played" it yet because I've been too busy testing the new render modes and looking for bugs in Biodome. There are a number of separate issues I'd like to raise so here's a table of contents:
1. Disappearing props
Sometimes, certain props will disappear when you look at them from a certain angle. Typically, it happens when you look at them straight on and it seems to be associated with props placed in "alcoves" (or indented parts of the map geometry). This is not an issue that's new in the Reinforced Update but there are a couple of instances of it in Biodome so it's probably about time I reported it.
Instance 1 (Fixed in build 255):
Instance 2 (Fixed in build 255):
Instance 3 (Remains in build 255):
In Docking, in "Stability Monitoring", some of the wall props disappear if you face that wall perfectly straight on. In the left screenshot, one wall prop has disappeared. In the right, two props have disappeared. (Side note: the pipes don't connect with the wall properly.)
There was another instance in Biodome with one of the vent/air-con units in "Bio Reactors" near "Main Hall" but that seems to have been fixed in build 254.
2. Mapping mistakes in Biodome
Both of the issues I want to report here were actually partially fixed in build 254.
Issue 1 (Remains in build 255):
The power node in "Access Tunnels" is not connected properly with the wall. In build 253, it was embedded in the wall. It probably needs a piece of geometry built behind it in order to look right.
Issue 2 (Remains in build 255):
The water sprinkler effects around "Bridge" come through the glass in places. In build 253, it came through really obviously, right next to the power node. In build 254, it's only coming through below the walkway.
3. Shadow rendering differences
In the D3D11 and OpenGL render modes, the shadows look grainy. In D3D9, the shadows look quite smooth.
The appearance of the shadows in D3D11 and OpenGL reminds me of how shadows used to look a long time ago. I don't think this grainy look represents an improvement in visual quality.
Comparison screenshots:
Scene 1: D3D9 / D3D11
Scene 2: D3D9 / D3D11
4. Performance observations with new renderers
Before I begin, here are my system specs:
The GTX 690 is a dual-GPU graphics card so I've tested each render device with multi-GPU enabled and disabled.
Have a look at the following 6 screenshots:
The purple text is provided by MSI Afterburner's "On Screen Display". The percentages indicate the GPU usage. Below the purple text is the output from NS2's r_stats command. All of the screenshots were taken of this scene in Biodome.
The first thing to note is that multi-GPU is not working in D3D11. However, the performance appears to be a tiny bit better than D3D9 in single-GPU mode. I suspect that it's NVIDIA's responsibility to update the SLI profile in their drivers so that multi-GPU works in D3D11 mode.
Multi-GPU appears to be working in OpenGL but the performance is worse than in single-GPU mode. There is something very wrong with OpenGL in both single and multi-GPU modes. You'll see that, in both cases, the GPU is not being fully utilized. Notice how long the "waiting for render thread" time is.
While testing this stuff, I noticed that mouse input lag became much more perceptible at lower frame rates. When using D3D11 (as well as D3D9 in single-GPU mode), I could feel a bit of mouse lag at times. With OpenGL in single-GPU mode, the mouse lag was really bad and, in multi-GPU mode, it was absolutely diabolical.
(Side note: This update seems to have messed up the r_stats command because it shows zeros for many of the stats. I can see values occasionally flicking to something other than zero.)
5. Frame rate anomalies (Fixed in build 255)
6. PhysX GPU acceleration doesn't work
The NVIDIA Contol Panel provides a way to see if PhysX is being run on the GPU or the CPU. In the menu bar at the top of the Control Panel, open the "3D Settings" menu and click the "Show PhysX Visual Indicator" to check it.
In NS2, the indicator shows that PhysX is running on the CPU, despite having the "PhysX GPU acceleration" set to "On" in the General Options menu. I even tried forcing one of my GPUs to be dedicated to PhysX but it didn't help.
I verified that this visual indicator actually works using Borderlands 2. In that game, you can set the "PhysX Effects" to "Low", "Medium" or "High". In "Medium" and "High" modes, the visual indicator shows that it's running PhysX on the GPU.
My PhysX version is 09.12.1031
Well, making this post has taken far longer than I had anticipated. I hope y'all appreciate it. :P
- Disappearing props (Some instances fixed in build 255)
- Mapping mistakes in Biodome
- Shadow rendering differences
- Performance observations with new renderers
- Frame rate anomalies (Fixed in build 255)
- PhysX GPU acceleration doesn't work
1. Disappearing props
Sometimes, certain props will disappear when you look at them from a certain angle. Typically, it happens when you look at them straight on and it seems to be associated with props placed in "alcoves" (or indented parts of the map geometry). This is not an issue that's new in the Reinforced Update but there are a couple of instances of it in Biodome so it's probably about time I reported it.
Instance 1 (Fixed in build 255):
In Biodome, in "Condensators" - The grass plantation under the thick blue pipe. In the left screenshot, the grass is visible. In the right, it disappears.
Instance 2 (Fixed in build 255):
In Biodome, in "CO2 Scrubbers", right next to the entrance to "Exchange" - The pipes on the wall disappear when faced straight on.
Instance 3 (Remains in build 255):
In Docking, in "Stability Monitoring", some of the wall props disappear if you face that wall perfectly straight on. In the left screenshot, one wall prop has disappeared. In the right, two props have disappeared. (Side note: the pipes don't connect with the wall properly.)
There was another instance in Biodome with one of the vent/air-con units in "Bio Reactors" near "Main Hall" but that seems to have been fixed in build 254.
2. Mapping mistakes in Biodome
Both of the issues I want to report here were actually partially fixed in build 254.
Issue 1 (Remains in build 255):
The power node in "Access Tunnels" is not connected properly with the wall. In build 253, it was embedded in the wall. It probably needs a piece of geometry built behind it in order to look right.
Issue 2 (Remains in build 255):
The water sprinkler effects around "Bridge" come through the glass in places. In build 253, it came through really obviously, right next to the power node. In build 254, it's only coming through below the walkway.
3. Shadow rendering differences
In the D3D11 and OpenGL render modes, the shadows look grainy. In D3D9, the shadows look quite smooth.
The appearance of the shadows in D3D11 and OpenGL reminds me of how shadows used to look a long time ago. I don't think this grainy look represents an improvement in visual quality.
Comparison screenshots:
Scene 1: D3D9 / D3D11
Scene 2: D3D9 / D3D11
4. Performance observations with new renderers
Before I begin, here are my system specs:
- MSI Big Bang MPower Z77 Motherboard
- Intel Core i7-3770K @ 4.5GHz
- Corsair Dominator Platinum 8GB DDR3 1866Mhz RAM
- NVIDIA Geforce GTX 690
- NVIDIA driver version 320.49
- Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
- In NS2: 1920 x 1080 @ 120 Hz fullscreen, v-sync off, texture streaming off, all graphics settings maxed, PhysX GPU acceleration on
The GTX 690 is a dual-GPU graphics card so I've tested each render device with multi-GPU enabled and disabled.
Have a look at the following 6 screenshots:
The purple text is provided by MSI Afterburner's "On Screen Display". The percentages indicate the GPU usage. Below the purple text is the output from NS2's r_stats command. All of the screenshots were taken of this scene in Biodome.
The first thing to note is that multi-GPU is not working in D3D11. However, the performance appears to be a tiny bit better than D3D9 in single-GPU mode. I suspect that it's NVIDIA's responsibility to update the SLI profile in their drivers so that multi-GPU works in D3D11 mode.
Multi-GPU appears to be working in OpenGL but the performance is worse than in single-GPU mode. There is something very wrong with OpenGL in both single and multi-GPU modes. You'll see that, in both cases, the GPU is not being fully utilized. Notice how long the "waiting for render thread" time is.
While testing this stuff, I noticed that mouse input lag became much more perceptible at lower frame rates. When using D3D11 (as well as D3D9 in single-GPU mode), I could feel a bit of mouse lag at times. With OpenGL in single-GPU mode, the mouse lag was really bad and, in multi-GPU mode, it was absolutely diabolical.
(Side note: This update seems to have messed up the r_stats command because it shows zeros for many of the stats. I can see values occasionally flicking to something other than zero.)
5. Frame rate anomalies (Fixed in build 255)
While exploring Biodome, I came across a spot in the map that reliably triggers really bizarre frame rate fluctuations.
Behind the tech point in "Exchange", there are some pipes. When I go close to these pipes and look at them, my frame rate soon becomes very low and jittery. The strange thing is that NS2 still reports that I'm getting 100+ FPS despite the fact that I feel like I'm getting about 20 FPS. FRAPS also indicates that I'm getting 100+ FPS in that spot.
If I turn around and leave the area, it takes a while for the jitteriness to go away. I can often walk all the way out of "Exchange" before smoothness returns.
The fact that both NS2 and FRAPS continue to report normal frame rates while this is going on suggests to me that the frames are being lost after they get passed over to the rendering API. I don't know if the frames are being completely dropped or if they're being displayed as "runt" frames. If you don't know what I mean by "runt" frames, please watch the following video where Tom Petersen from NVIDIA talks with Ryan Shrout from PC Perspective about Frame Rating and FCAT. There's also discussion about SLI metering, v-sync and input latency. It's an hour-and-a-half long but it's fascinating and very useful information.
I opened up the profiler in NS2 and I noticed that this anomaly correlates with some unusual frame times. Check out this screenshot:
As you can see, every odd frame takes longer than every even frame. I wonder if this is messing up the SLI metering system or something like that.
I'd really love to run this scenario through the Frame Rating methodology but you need a video capture card. The one mentioned in the video ("Datapath VisionDVI-DL") is unfortunately quite expensive.
Behind the tech point in "Exchange", there are some pipes. When I go close to these pipes and look at them, my frame rate soon becomes very low and jittery. The strange thing is that NS2 still reports that I'm getting 100+ FPS despite the fact that I feel like I'm getting about 20 FPS. FRAPS also indicates that I'm getting 100+ FPS in that spot.
If I turn around and leave the area, it takes a while for the jitteriness to go away. I can often walk all the way out of "Exchange" before smoothness returns.
The fact that both NS2 and FRAPS continue to report normal frame rates while this is going on suggests to me that the frames are being lost after they get passed over to the rendering API. I don't know if the frames are being completely dropped or if they're being displayed as "runt" frames. If you don't know what I mean by "runt" frames, please watch the following video where Tom Petersen from NVIDIA talks with Ryan Shrout from PC Perspective about Frame Rating and FCAT. There's also discussion about SLI metering, v-sync and input latency. It's an hour-and-a-half long but it's fascinating and very useful information.
I opened up the profiler in NS2 and I noticed that this anomaly correlates with some unusual frame times. Check out this screenshot:
As you can see, every odd frame takes longer than every even frame. I wonder if this is messing up the SLI metering system or something like that.
I'd really love to run this scenario through the Frame Rating methodology but you need a video capture card. The one mentioned in the video ("Datapath VisionDVI-DL") is unfortunately quite expensive.
UPDATE: Obraxis posted a potential fix for FPS issues and input latency in his thread (Microstuttering/Input Delay Fixes to try). It involves disabling "visual themes" and "desktop composition" in the compatibility settings for the NS2 executable.
Whilst there was no discernible change to input latency, it did seem to fix this frame rate anomaly. I tested it reasonably thoroughly (twice with compatibility settings applied and twice without - alternating between the two cases) and in both cases where compatibility settings were applied, I couldn't reproduce the frame rate anomaly whereas, in both cases where the compatibility settings were not applied, I could.
Whilst there was no discernible change to input latency, it did seem to fix this frame rate anomaly. I tested it reasonably thoroughly (twice with compatibility settings applied and twice without - alternating between the two cases) and in both cases where compatibility settings were applied, I couldn't reproduce the frame rate anomaly whereas, in both cases where the compatibility settings were not applied, I could.
6. PhysX GPU acceleration doesn't work
The NVIDIA Contol Panel provides a way to see if PhysX is being run on the GPU or the CPU. In the menu bar at the top of the Control Panel, open the "3D Settings" menu and click the "Show PhysX Visual Indicator" to check it.
In NS2, the indicator shows that PhysX is running on the CPU, despite having the "PhysX GPU acceleration" set to "On" in the General Options menu. I even tried forcing one of my GPUs to be dedicated to PhysX but it didn't help.
I verified that this visual indicator actually works using Borderlands 2. In that game, you can set the "PhysX Effects" to "Low", "Medium" or "High". In "Medium" and "High" modes, the visual indicator shows that it's running PhysX on the GPU.
My PhysX version is 09.12.1031
UPDATE: Tested with newer PhysX version 09.13.0604 and it still doesn't run on the GPU.
Well, making this post has taken far longer than I had anticipated. I hope y'all appreciate it. :P
