moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-SlayerPL+Apr 10 2005, 11:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SlayerPL @ Apr 10 2005, 11:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Shiva server down? noes!? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry, my comp just crashed. The capacitors on my motherboard are leaking and every few weeks it does that. I've already got it underclocked. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It's about time I post the pictures I have taken to give the necessary feedback.
* awesome feedback * <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks a lot. I fixed those two turret factory spots and the sinking structure issues. I'll get working on the stuck issues. I'm still thinking about the ramp in coolant but other things are taking priority at the moment.
i thought about that weldable dbl... a hasty comm can loose 15 res if he will try to put a rt right after welding the point. well i lost my life in such way. any way to workaround it?
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Gah, took loads of screenies of various little bits and bobs, mainly onos stuck points and such and now having just reformatted my computer i am now photoshop less. Will get it installed, probably not till next weekend tho, then post the screens that i took with slayer.
Hello again, <!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Apr 10 2005, 07:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Apr 10 2005, 07:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Xtof+Apr 9 2005, 11:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xtof @ Apr 9 2005, 11:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hello everyone (and especially moultano), It's about time I post the pictures I have taken to give the necessary feedback. * awesome feedback *<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Thanks a lot. I fixed those two turret factory spots and the sinking structure issues. I'll get working on the stuck issues. I'm still thinking about the ramp in coolant but other things are taking priority at the moment.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks mate, I'm doing the best I can in helping to mak this wonderful map even better, and to iron out the little problems (that - in reality -can take a lot of work).
<b>Well</b>, again I have done some research and here are the results of my findings: <span style='color:green'><ul><li><u>Airlock Hive</u></li></ul></span> I have searched for the furthest postion where I could place a turret factory in order to be able to siege the <span style='color:green'>Airlock Hive</span>. As you can see I have put a turret-factory up there at <span style='color:orange'>'Cryochambers'</span>. As there is a difference of heigth it is very difficult for the aliens to take that turret-factory down, and it also takes a long way to go from the <span style='color:green'>Airlock hive</span>. In <span style='color:red'>red</span> I have indicated the <span style='color:red'>sieges</span> and in <span style='color:blue'>bleu</span> the <span style='color:blue'>turrets</span>. As you already know, that hallway where I have put the sieges is already narrow for the oni, but with the sieges it becomes almost impossible to move throught that hallway for an oni. Earlier I have given you a suggestion to change or to add an entance at the Airlock Hive, I'm just telling you that as a possible suggestion. <img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/5161/airlockcryochambersiegespotms2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> A possible solution to this 'problem' is to move the position of the Hive (as indicated in white) within <span style='color:green'>Airlock</span> so that it is not siegeable anymore from so far away. You really don't have to move it that much I think. Another thing you can see in this picture is that it is hard for an ono to hit-and-run, because of the layout and placement of the crates: - The first thing you might want to alter is to move that <u>hanging crate</u> up a bit, so that the ono can 'run' under it instead of having to crouch. I think you don't have to move it that much upwards, so that the right exit still is 'covered' by the crate from the back of the hive (which is a good thing). Perhaps you can make the zone on top of the crate a no-build zone (if a turret-factory is placed up there it might be difficult to take it down). - I would move the other <u>crate at the left</u> that is also marked in bleu in the direction that is indicated (you will see why two pictures down from here). <img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/1193/airlockonoissuems29bq.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> This picture is still related to the previous picture (which is the lack of mobility the ono has within the <span style='color:green'>Airlock Hive</span>). If you manage to move that hanging crate up a bit, so that the Ono can run under it, then this will not be much of an issue. But when you don't do it, the Ono has to move around that crate and he can get a littlebit stuck in the spot indicated by the red box, as the pipes block a smooth passage. <img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/9813/airlockrightexitms8mw.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> I know that someone else has already mentioned that the texture indicated in the red triangle blocks the ono's passage. But if you move the hive, that problem will be resolved. If you don't want to move the hive, then fix that 'alien texture'. As that texture blocks an Ono (and Fades), the passage gets narrowed and it can get hard to move fast in and out (to hit-and-run). Moving the crate (from this point of view) that I have mentioned earlier backwards makes it easier for an Ono to manoeuvre between the crates. <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>You can of course reposition other crates to obtain the same result.</span> <img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/4042/airlockonoalientextureblockms8.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> Again, if you decide to move that <u>hanging crate</u> up, so that the Ono can walk/run under it, then this issue will be more or less resolved. But if you want to follow the red arrow it is very difficult to go through that passage (I couldn't do it). <img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/5350/airlockonopassthroughms3ce.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <span style='color:green'><ul><li><u>Coolant Exchange Hive</u></li></ul></span> Again, I have searched for the furthest postion where I could place a turret factory in order to be able to siege the <span style='color:green'>Coolant Exchange Hive</span>. There are 'two' spots that are really too far away (imho): - The first one has already been mentioned by someone else and is the <span style='color:orange'>'Steam Tunnels'</span> location. From that hallway you can siege it from <u>both sides</u> of that hallway. So in fact, it is one and the same issue. In my opinion it is hard to get to those spots, because - coming from the <span style='color:green'>Coolant Exchange Hive</span> you have to climb the ladders (as a higher lifeform) in order to attack that spot, and that unfortunatly takes to much effort and time. <img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/2705/coolantexchangesiegespotleftms.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> - The second spot is (I have that feeling) even further away then the first spot I have mentioned, namely at <span style='color:orange'>'Generator'</span>. All the <span style='color:red'>sieges</span> indicated in <span style='color:red'>red</span> are in range to dammage the <span style='color:green'>Coolant Exchange Hive</span>. Again when coming from that Hive it is easy for the marines to hold that position because there is a ramp that goes down, which gives the marines all the time to shoot a lot of ammo into the aliens (also assuming an Ono has to go back up that ramp to retreat after a hit-and-run situation). <b>IF</b> you share the same opinion as I do about those two siege spots at <span style='color:green'>Coolant Exchange Hive</span>, I would suggest to change the Hive a bit, so that it is (just) out of <b>those</b> Siege-spots reach. I have an idea, if you are interested in it then please let me know, then I will work it out in a picture. <img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/9716/coolantexchangesiegespotunderm.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> I think it is more logic to move that switch to where I have indicated it. If you are going to where that switch is now, you might just want to take the ladder. The new (indicated spot) is more logic, because it is in the 'walking path' towards the elevator. I also think that because of the fact that the landing spot (indicated in <span style='color:blue'>bleu</span>) of the elevator is embedded in the ground, it is hard to get out of that spot => when you are under the elevator and the elevator is hitting your head and is actually causing dammage. <img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/6682/shivacoreelevatorstuckissuems4.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <span style='color:orange'><ul><li><u>Shiva Core</u></li></ul></span> The next two pictures are actually not a problem (^^), but rather a good thing, because of the changes you have done with ns_shivab3. Before you made those changes (you changed the hallway and some other stuff around there) it was not easy to siege <span style='color:orange'>'Shiva Core'</span>, so I came up with the idea to add a <span style='color:red'>Siege room</span> as indicated in <span style='color:red'>red</span> in the next picture. <img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/776/shivacoresiegeroomms9cr.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> But thanks of the changes you have made there is now plenty of room to siege it properly I think: <img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/1056/shivacoresiegespotms1dc.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> The next pictures are really minor issues. As you can see in <span style='color:red'>red</span>, the structure of the elevator doesn't match the floor underneath all the elevators. But it is just a minor issue. <a href='http://img22.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img22&image=shivacoreelevatorms7hd.jpg&bgc=666699&fgc=EE1144&bor=DDDD77' target='_blank'><img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/1938/shivacoreelevatorms7hd.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a><a href='http://img22.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img22&image=cryochamberselevatorms0hx.jpg&bgc=666699&fgc=EE1144&bor=DDDD77' target='_blank'><img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/9195/cryochamberselevatorms0hx.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a><a href='http://img22.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img22&image=maintenancebayelevatorleftms4s.jpg&bgc=666699&fgc=EE1144&bor=DDDD77' target='_blank'><img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/2671/maintenancebayelevatorleftms4s.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a><a href='http://img22.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img22&image=maintenancebayelevatorrightms5.jpg&bgc=666699&fgc=EE1144&bor=DDDD77' target='_blank'><img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/2651/maintenancebayelevatorrightms5.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Apr 10 2005, 05:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Apr 10 2005, 05:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Edit: @Xtof, I'll put a ladder in that area near maintenance for the next version, and fix that grate.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What grate you mean?
Gees, I'm glad I can go to sleep now.
I hope you are not overwhelmed by all the feedback I have been giving you, and that it can actually help you in the long run.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
well, sad news folks. My comp is dead. Don't worry, i've got backups of the map source from at least the released version (probably later, I can't remember) and the hard disk is probably fine anyways, but this means that the testing server is down and I can't work on the map for a while.
Here's a description of my issues. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=91717' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....showtopic=91717</a>
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Apr 11 2005, 05:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Apr 11 2005, 05:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->well, sad news folks. My comp is dead. Don't worry, i've got backups of the map source from at least the released version (probably later, I can't remember) <u>and the hard disk is probably fine anyways</u>, but this means that the testing server is down and I can't work on the map for a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->, so technically he is in coma but there is a very good chance of survival. I hope you didn't lose to much of your work you have put into it after the last ns_shivab3 release, that would be a shame me thinks. So sad <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
But hey, let's look at it from the good side, you actually have backups ... and that is a good thing, now isn't it? Hope you can fix this without too much hustle doc. Strength, XtOf
wonderful map. the corridors may be a little irritating at first but after some minutes you know where you are going to.
you should get rit of these edges in the doorways and you should think about how to allow an onos to pass a doorway because atm it just a small path the onos fits trough without crouching. very bad for escaping.
to get rit of errors before anyone mentions it you should place MUCH MORE clipbrushes. hadnt been stucked but may be problem later on.
btw: where is the weldpoint / activation point to pump the water out of generator? couldnt find it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Lt Gravity+Apr 11 2005, 02:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt Gravity @ Apr 11 2005, 02:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->btw: where is the weldpoint / activation point to pump the water out of <span style='color:red'>generator</span>? couldnt find it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The weldpoint is at Sublevel Control, If you take a staight line from MS to <b>Datacore</b> it is just above Datacore (but a long way in walking distance).
<!--QuoteBegin-Viper two nine A+Apr 11 2005, 01:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Viper two nine A @ Apr 11 2005, 01:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><a href='http://www.teleservice-koper.de/xkc/nswiki/index.php?title=Shiva' target='_blank'>http://www.teleservice-koper.de/xkc/nswiki...php?title=Shiva</a> ip collection of servers running shiva<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At your website I have read this statement: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ENGLISH Shiva might be the map with the best chances to get released as an official map. Because moultanos server is currently down (see: [1] (http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=91717)) im putting up a liste of all servers that have shiva installed. If youre running such a server or know about it feel free to add it to the list. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But I didn't see a possibility to add it to the list.
I know surftown runs an older version of the map. I have written them an e-mail and asked them to update it.
editing the page works similar to the wikipedia (www.wikipedia.org)
(ok my pages got a german gui)
- just click "bearbeiten" at the top - make your changes - click "artikel speichern"
or just tell me the ip here or via pm <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2005
Today is a very sad day for me. Today i must sit here and say something terrible about this map, and it really pains me as i have been so enoying following the development and being involved with beta testing, but these are a few points that must be made, and hopefully they will be able to be resolved.
Unfortunately due to a small disagreement between photoshop the screens i took and my hard drive, i have no SS to post with this, but please bear with me and as you obviously know your map very well moultano, hopefully you will be able to visualise what i am saying.
I have been playing this map on a variety of public servers, and got some people together for a game recently, we are not PRO, nor some of us very good, but it gave me the chance to test out the map in actual gameplay scenarios, and this is where this beautiful map falls down.
Without doubt this looks the most like a spaceship of any map out there at the moment, and this is it's downfall. Realism needs to be balanced with gameplay, taking into account the types of strategies/abilities of the various teams you need to have areas in a map that balance for both teams. This means small confined spaces that are pro alien - the whole map, and open wider space to give the marines a chance with their ranged weapons.
And that is the downfall, marines have nowhere on this map to fight on their terms which sadly has equated to an alien win on EVERY game i have played on this map (nearly 20 so far). I know that is not ahuge number of games, but the point has still been made. Let me start at thebeginning - Namely marine start....
MS should be defensible for marines, it needs to have open spaces, preferably with all marine spawn points inside it, and enough room for the marines to manouver and not shoot each other (remember FF on). The comm should be able to have a direct line of site at the RT when he hops out of the chair to clear any solo skulks.
Currently as soon as aliens get into MS and start attacking the Rines are virtually incapable of gettting them back out, the biggest exageration of this is when i was playing as Alien and hit marine start solo about 3 mins into the game.
The first advantage i was able to exploit was the 4 entrances to marine start. Although there are only 2 halls to it the 4 entrances dramatically help the lone skulk or indeed any alien. I walked into marine start at the far end by the rt and began eating the RT. Due to the fact the comm had to build in front of the comm chair, when he jumped out he was unable to get a clean shot at me, especially as i was half in the dip behind the rt. As he came towards the rt i was able to scoot around it and out one of the very close exits. As he began to follow me i carried on around and back in the original entrance behind him and killed him. That left the base virtually defenceless. I began eating the IP while waiting for the other rines to come back. As the comm spawned in i killed him and finished off the IP.
Game over, alien win. The trouble is the aliens can hop in and out of the marine spawn without any danger of getting killed, even as a 1hive vanilla skulk.
This can be corrected, but would require the MS to be approx twice as wide and about half as high again as it currently is. This story is repeated all around the map. There are no areas where the marines can fight on their own terms, fades, oni, and skulks appear around corners and are on you before you have a chance, a good blinking fade on this map is virtually unstoppable. Turtles in MS, which happen very soon after the second hive is up because of the alien advantage, last for 4-5 mins then it's game over, there is no chance of a fightback, in fact there is no real chance of a fight at all.
It saddens me to write this because this is one of the most beautiful maps ever made, yes it can be corrected, by adding height and width at various points around the map, but it will be at the cost of the intimacy and beauty that has put this map where it is now.
You have a choice to make moultano, continue with this beautiful map as is, realism at the expense of gameplay, or you are going to have to make a few changes and sacrifice some of the realism for improved gamplay.
The trouble will be once you start to make things higher and wider, you will experience higher r-speeds. Higher r-speeds will cause you to have to lose some of the beauty and detail in the map to bring them back down. This will be the sacrifice. I hate to say this, and hope that people can prove me wrong, especially in the CAL pre-season, but i fear this map may get a thumbs down from the competitive community as it really isn't as playable as it needs to be.
I now go and hang my head in shame at having to put this down in words. I am sorry if i haven't articulated this very well, please don't start flaming me for saying this but it is the truth as i see it. If i can do anything to help with the changes and problems, just ask and i will give you all the detailed info i can. I would love for nothing more than this to suceed, i hope it does.
[EDIT] One other thing, when i fell down draft shafts as an onos, i couldnt get out as the ladder isn't wide enough <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> [/EDIT]
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Glad to hear some concrete feedback. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
People have been complaining of an overall alien bias in 3.1, so I suspect some of it can be attributed to that, but there certainly is work to be done. I need feedback like this <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So far in the version that I've got on my hard disk, I've widened up the hallway in maintenance above the elevator that leads to the steam tunnels to approximately twice its width, widened the entrances to the marine start, widened the hallway in the steam tunnels with the breakable grate up top to about twice its width, widened databurst transmission to 1.5 times its length (in the area with the consoles). I've also enlarged the hallway between the marine start and maintenance on the east side, and took out the big vis blocking brush that was only needed for r_speeds when cryochambers were south of the marine start. (it looks much better now too)
I've only run into one r_speeds issue so far that only comes up if you place yourself creatively in shiva core, so I'm not too worried about those in general. I'm handy with hint brushes.
I've modified the marine start some, but it clearly needs more work. How would you reccommend I do it? I'd really like to keep the consoles that I have in there, but those lead to r_speed issues if I make the entrances more visible. I'm thinking I may just have to bite the bullet and either take them out, or separate them into the hallways exiting, or something like that. Do you think I could fix the issues with the marine start by only enlarging the area with the spawn points and comm chair, or are the entrances the real issue? I designed the marine start the way I did mostly cause I was really sick of the long endgames on eclipse, but it seems I swung too far in the opposite direction.
My hope is that the spaceship feeling has more to do with the placement of the rooms, the visuals, and the views through the hull than simply the narrowness of the corridoors, but we'll see.
I have more polygons to play with for this than you might think, I've done a pretty good job of optimising, so I think I should be able to keep the detail, but what I really need to know is what to focus on.
Where should I start? What hallways need the most lovin?
Here's my take on the areas in the map. Tell me where I'm wrong. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>Fun for both teams, balanced appropriately:</b> Mess hall and the hallway leading out of it. Chemical storage. Shipment processing. Sublevel Control. Generator. Tunnel. Datacore Hive. Lower levels of Maintenance. (?) Draft Shafts (?)
<b>Awkward for aliens:</b> Airlock hive. (****ty east side entrance, vent movement issues, very campable) Hallway on east side of Maintenance with the elevator to coolant.
<b> Awkward for marines:</b> Shiva core Marine Start Many areas of steam tunnels Hallways around top level of Maintenance
<b> Not sure what to make of yet:</b> Coolant hive. Cryochambers. Databurst transmission
Help me prioritize things. As a marine, where do you hate to fight and why? As an alien where do you hate to fight and why?
My design goal at the moment is to make it fun to fight everywhere in the map, and then even if there are layout issues people will still have fun while they are playing on it.
<a href='http://img98.echo.cx/my.php?image=hallwayono9tp3ki.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img98.echo.cx/img98/7114/hallwayono9tp3ki.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a> here is the first sugestion. close the left side in the up pass and close the below pass in the right side and short a bit the right wall. a second way is: get the controls stuff rotate 90 degrees anddelete the over top area and glue the com chair in the middle near the controls stuff making a brush conection to look like ppl just conect the cc at the main controls of shiva. <a href='http://img98.echo.cx/my.php?image=hallwayono9tp5de.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img98.echo.cx/img98/5349/hallwayono9tp5de.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
What about adding two (automatic opening and closing) doors at marine start to slow down alien movement, so that basically there are only two open entrances?
I have to say that I like the first suggestion Carrioca made (with only two entrances).
well in my opinion the small and narrow corridors create the spaceship feeling ... the thing on mineshaft (rip)
but thats just my opinion
we really need to find the balance between "onos wide" corridors and the atmosphere <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
edit: i like the second entry proposal better ... i think running zigzag out of rine start every time will get pretty annoying
@some posts above (dont remember your name): what do you think about mines? those five res are really worth it <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
well moult when youre enlarging ms you could maybe raise the rt a little so that the line of sight isnt blocked by the consoles
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Mines don't really do a lot when gorges are bile bombing into ms from the hall ways at the side <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
uhm yeah but i think he is talking about early game when he was able to rambo into ms alone wo bile gorges <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I have never played this map, well I downloaded it and had a quick scan like months ago, im guessing the ms is still the same, The moment I saw MS I cried cause it was so crammed (aka Alien haven). <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I really hate that I don't promote this map more because the new WAD files won't download overtop of the old...
Anyone else have this problem (if you've used the other versions, and then just updated the files)?
Can this be fixed...pretty please? (name them the same as the beta they come with...ns_shivab3.wad)
Hope this gets fixed, I like this map!
EDIT: Just to add, I'm talking from a dedicated server standpoint. If the server had an older shiva version, and the clients downloaded the map already, when they download the new shivab3 they don't get the new wad file because it is the SAME name as the older versions...therefore textures are missing!
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--QuoteBegin-Boris+Apr 16 2005, 07:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Boris @ Apr 16 2005, 07:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Is the WAD file issue going to be sorted out!?
I really hate that I don't promote this map more because the new WAD files won't download overtop of the old...
Anyone else have this problem (if you've used the other versions, and then just updated the files)?
Can this be fixed...pretty please? (name them the same as the beta they come with...ns_shivab3.wad)
Hope this gets fixed, I like this map!
EDIT: Just to add, I'm talking from a dedicated server standpoint. If the server had an older shiva version, and the clients downloaded the map already, when they download the new shivab3 they don't get the new wad file because it is the SAME name as the older versions...therefore textures are missing! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'll wadinclude it for the next version. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Unfortunately I haven't been able to work on the next version at all. New egg was supposed to ship my new motherboard on monday, and it hasn't left their facilities yet . . . Last time I use them for anything time sensitive.
<!--QuoteBegin-Soul Rider+Apr 16 2005, 11:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soul Rider @ Apr 16 2005, 11:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Mines don't really do a lot when gorges are bile bombing into ms from the hall ways at the side <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> agreed. the ms is little packed for my taste. when aliens start rushing in there isnt enough space for marines to get out. "w3 g0t tha ornos roadbl0ck ffs!!!1111" <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Apr 17 2005, 09:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Apr 17 2005, 09:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'll wadinclude it for the next version. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Unfortunately I haven't been able to work on the next version at all. New egg was supposed to ship my new motherboard on monday, and it hasn't left their facilities yet . . . Last time I use them for anything time sensitive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No problem, as long as you are aware of it, and something is done about it because I love this map and so do a lot of my regulars!
This is a very cool map with many cool features. I like the light on this map, and i think you (the ceator of the map) should use more orange light... because that looks very cool in hl1 ....
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
I've replaced my motherboard <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> work can begin again <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Apr 23 2005, 05:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Apr 23 2005, 05:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've replaced my motherboard <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> work can begin again <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh Joy of Joy's. I really hope everything gets sorted and this becomes the map it deserves to. If you want to meet up and have a walk around the map on your server so we can go over the points i made, i feel it would be easier to explain that way, then i will have a go at suggesting some of my ideas to counter the problems i brought up.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
new build is on its way. I completely redid the marine start. There might be some delay in releasing it while I fix bugs. I also want to make sure that the new version fixes all the big problems that I know about from the last before I release it, but I think in general, people will be happy with it.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited April 2005
A preview of the much more defensible new marine start. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
Sorry, my comp just crashed. The capacitors on my motherboard are leaking and every few weeks it does that. I've already got it underclocked. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It's about time I post the pictures I have taken to give the necessary feedback.
* awesome feedback * <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks a lot. I fixed those two turret factory spots and the sinking structure issues. I'll get working on the stuck issues. I'm still thinking about the ramp in coolant but other things are taking priority at the moment.
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Apr 10 2005, 07:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Apr 10 2005, 07:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Xtof+Apr 9 2005, 11:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xtof @ Apr 9 2005, 11:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hello everyone (and especially moultano),
It's about time I post the pictures I have taken to give the necessary feedback.
* awesome feedback *<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Thanks a lot. I fixed those two turret factory spots and the sinking structure issues. I'll get working on the stuck issues. I'm still thinking about the ramp in coolant but other things are taking priority at the moment.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks mate, I'm doing the best I can in helping to mak this wonderful map even better, and to iron out the little problems (that - in reality -can take a lot of work).
<b>Well</b>, again I have done some research and here are the results of my findings:
<span style='color:green'><ul><li><u>Airlock Hive</u></li></ul></span>
I have searched for the furthest postion where I could place a turret factory in order to be able to siege the <span style='color:green'>Airlock Hive</span>. As you can see I have put a turret-factory up there at <span style='color:orange'>'Cryochambers'</span>. As there is a difference of heigth it is very difficult for the aliens to take that turret-factory down, and it also takes a long way to go from the <span style='color:green'>Airlock hive</span>. In <span style='color:red'>red</span> I have indicated the <span style='color:red'>sieges</span> and in <span style='color:blue'>bleu</span> the <span style='color:blue'>turrets</span>. As you already know, that hallway where I have put the sieges is already narrow for the oni, but with the sieges it becomes almost impossible to move throught that hallway for an oni. Earlier I have given you a suggestion to change or to add an entance at the Airlock Hive, I'm just telling you that as a possible suggestion.
<img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/5161/airlockcryochambersiegespotms2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
A possible solution to this 'problem' is to move the position of the Hive (as indicated in white) within <span style='color:green'>Airlock</span> so that it is not siegeable anymore from so far away. You really don't have to move it that much I think.
Another thing you can see in this picture is that it is hard for an ono to hit-and-run, because of the layout and placement of the crates:
- The first thing you might want to alter is to move that <u>hanging crate</u> up a bit, so that the ono can 'run' under it instead of having to crouch. I think you don't have to move it that much upwards, so that the right exit still is 'covered' by the crate from the back of the hive (which is a good thing).
Perhaps you can make the zone on top of the crate a no-build zone (if a turret-factory is placed up there it might be difficult to take it down).
- I would move the other <u>crate at the left</u> that is also marked in bleu in the direction that is indicated (you will see why two pictures down from here).
<img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/1193/airlockonoissuems29bq.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
This picture is still related to the previous picture (which is the lack of mobility the ono has within the <span style='color:green'>Airlock Hive</span>). If you manage to move that hanging crate up a bit, so that the Ono can run under it, then this will not be much of an issue. But when you don't do it, the Ono has to move around that crate and he can get a littlebit stuck in the spot indicated by the red box, as the pipes block a smooth passage.
<img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/9813/airlockrightexitms8mw.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I know that someone else has already mentioned that the texture indicated in the red triangle blocks the ono's passage. But if you move the hive, that problem will be resolved. If you don't want to move the hive, then fix that 'alien texture'.
As that texture blocks an Ono (and Fades), the passage gets narrowed and it can get hard to move fast in and out (to hit-and-run). Moving the crate (from this point of view) that I have mentioned earlier backwards makes it easier for an Ono to manoeuvre between the crates. <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>You can of course reposition other crates to obtain the same result.</span>
<img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/4042/airlockonoalientextureblockms8.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Again, if you decide to move that <u>hanging crate</u> up, so that the Ono can walk/run under it, then this issue will be more or less resolved. But if you want to follow the red arrow it is very difficult to go through that passage (I couldn't do it).
<img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/5350/airlockonopassthroughms3ce.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<span style='color:green'><ul><li><u>Coolant Exchange Hive</u></li></ul></span>
Again, I have searched for the furthest postion where I could place a turret factory in order to be able to siege the <span style='color:green'>Coolant Exchange Hive</span>.
There are 'two' spots that are really too far away (imho):
- The first one has already been mentioned by someone else and is the <span style='color:orange'>'Steam Tunnels'</span> location. From that hallway you can siege it from <u>both sides</u> of that hallway. So in fact, it is one and the same issue. In my opinion it is hard to get to those spots, because - coming from the <span style='color:green'>Coolant Exchange Hive</span> you have to climb the ladders (as a higher lifeform) in order to attack that spot, and that unfortunatly takes to much effort and time.
<img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/2705/coolantexchangesiegespotleftms.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
- The second spot is (I have that feeling) even further away then the first spot I have mentioned, namely at <span style='color:orange'>'Generator'</span>. All the <span style='color:red'>sieges</span> indicated in <span style='color:red'>red</span> are in range to dammage the <span style='color:green'>Coolant Exchange Hive</span>. Again when coming from that Hive it is easy for the marines to hold that position because there is a ramp that goes down, which gives the marines all the time to shoot a lot of ammo into the aliens (also assuming an Ono has to go back up that ramp to retreat after a hit-and-run situation).
<b>IF</b> you share the same opinion as I do about those two siege spots at <span style='color:green'>Coolant Exchange Hive</span>, I would suggest to change the Hive a bit, so that it is (just) out of <b>those</b> Siege-spots reach. I have an idea, if you are interested in it then please let me know, then I will work it out in a picture.
<img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/9716/coolantexchangesiegespotunderm.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I think it is more logic to move that switch to where I have indicated it. If you are going to where that switch is now, you might just want to take the ladder. The new (indicated spot) is more logic, because it is in the 'walking path' towards the elevator.
I also think that because of the fact that the landing spot (indicated in <span style='color:blue'>bleu</span>) of the elevator is embedded in the ground, it is hard to get out of that spot => when you are under the elevator and the elevator is hitting your head and is actually causing dammage.
<img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/6682/shivacoreelevatorstuckissuems4.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<span style='color:orange'><ul><li><u>Shiva Core</u></li></ul></span>
The next two pictures are actually not a problem (^^), but rather a good thing, because of the changes you have done with ns_shivab3. Before you made those changes (you changed the hallway and some other stuff around there) it was not easy to siege <span style='color:orange'>'Shiva Core'</span>, so I came up with the idea to add a <span style='color:red'>Siege room</span> as indicated in <span style='color:red'>red</span> in the next picture.
<img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/776/shivacoresiegeroomms9cr.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
But thanks of the changes you have made there is now plenty of room to siege it properly I think:
<img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/1056/shivacoresiegespotms1dc.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
The next pictures are really minor issues. As you can see in <span style='color:red'>red</span>, the structure of the elevator doesn't match the floor underneath all the elevators. But it is just a minor issue.
<a href='http://img22.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img22&image=shivacoreelevatorms7hd.jpg&bgc=666699&fgc=EE1144&bor=DDDD77' target='_blank'><img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/1938/shivacoreelevatorms7hd.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a><a href='http://img22.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img22&image=cryochamberselevatorms0hx.jpg&bgc=666699&fgc=EE1144&bor=DDDD77' target='_blank'><img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/9195/cryochamberselevatorms0hx.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a><a href='http://img22.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img22&image=maintenancebayelevatorleftms4s.jpg&bgc=666699&fgc=EE1144&bor=DDDD77' target='_blank'><img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/2671/maintenancebayelevatorleftms4s.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a><a href='http://img22.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img22&image=maintenancebayelevatorrightms5.jpg&bgc=666699&fgc=EE1144&bor=DDDD77' target='_blank'><img src='http://img22.exs.cx/img22/2651/maintenancebayelevatorrightms5.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Apr 10 2005, 05:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Apr 10 2005, 05:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Edit: @Xtof, I'll put a ladder in that area near maintenance for the next version, and fix that grate.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What grate you mean?
Gees, I'm glad I can go to sleep now.
I hope you are not overwhelmed by all the feedback I have been giving you, and that it can actually help you in the long run.
Greetz,
XtOf
Here's a description of my issues. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=91717' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....showtopic=91717</a>
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->, so technically he is in coma but there is a very good chance of survival. I hope you didn't lose to much of your work you have put into it after the last ns_shivab3 release, that would be a shame me thinks. So sad <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
But hey, let's look at it from the good side, you actually have backups ... and that is a good thing, now isn't it? Hope you can fix this without too much hustle doc.
Strength,
XtOf
ip collection of servers running shiva
you should get rit of these edges in the doorways and you should think about how to allow an onos to pass a doorway because atm it just a small path the onos fits trough without crouching. very bad for escaping.
to get rit of errors before anyone mentions it you should place MUCH MORE clipbrushes. hadnt been stucked but may be problem later on.
btw: where is the weldpoint / activation point to pump the water out of generator? couldnt find it.
The weldpoint is at Sublevel Control, If you take a staight line from MS to <b>Datacore</b> it is just above Datacore (but a long way in walking distance).
<!--QuoteBegin-Viper two nine A+Apr 11 2005, 01:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Viper two nine A @ Apr 11 2005, 01:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><a href='http://www.teleservice-koper.de/xkc/nswiki/index.php?title=Shiva' target='_blank'>http://www.teleservice-koper.de/xkc/nswiki...php?title=Shiva</a>
ip collection of servers running shiva<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At your website I have read this statement:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ENGLISH
Shiva might be the map with the best chances to get released as an official map.
Because moultanos server is currently down (see: [1] (http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=91717)) im putting up a liste of all servers that have shiva installed.
If youre running such a server or know about it feel free to add it to the list. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But I didn't see a possibility to add it to the list.
I know surftown runs an older version of the map. I have written them an e-mail and asked them to update it.
Greetz,
XtOf
editing the page works similar to the wikipedia (www.wikipedia.org)
(ok my pages got a german gui)
- just click "bearbeiten" at the top
- make your changes
- click "artikel speichern"
or just tell me the ip here or via pm <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Unfortunately due to a small disagreement between photoshop the screens i took and my hard drive, i have no SS to post with this, but please bear with me and as you obviously know your map very well moultano, hopefully you will be able to visualise what i am saying.
I have been playing this map on a variety of public servers, and got some people together for a game recently, we are not PRO, nor some of us very good, but it gave me the chance to test out the map in actual gameplay scenarios, and this is where this beautiful map falls down.
Without doubt this looks the most like a spaceship of any map out there at the moment, and this is it's downfall. Realism needs to be balanced with gameplay, taking into account the types of strategies/abilities of the various teams you need to have areas in a map that balance for both teams. This means small confined spaces that are pro alien - the whole map, and open wider space to give the marines a chance with their ranged weapons.
And that is the downfall, marines have nowhere on this map to fight on their terms which sadly has equated to an alien win on EVERY game i have played on this map (nearly 20 so far). I know that is not ahuge number of games, but the point has still been made. Let me start at thebeginning - Namely marine start....
MS should be defensible for marines, it needs to have open spaces, preferably with all marine spawn points inside it, and enough room for the marines to manouver and not shoot each other (remember FF on). The comm should be able to have a direct line of site at the RT when he hops out of the chair to clear any solo skulks.
Currently as soon as aliens get into MS and start attacking the Rines are virtually incapable of gettting them back out, the biggest exageration of this is when i was playing as Alien and hit marine start solo about 3 mins into the game.
The first advantage i was able to exploit was the 4 entrances to marine start. Although there are only 2 halls to it the 4 entrances dramatically help the lone skulk or indeed any alien. I walked into marine start at the far end by the rt and began eating the RT. Due to the fact the comm had to build in front of the comm chair, when he jumped out he was unable to get a clean shot at me, especially as i was half in the dip behind the rt. As he came towards the rt i was able to scoot around it and out one of the very close exits. As he began to follow me i carried on around and back in the original entrance behind him and killed him. That left the base virtually defenceless. I began eating the IP while waiting for the other rines to come back. As the comm spawned in i killed him and finished off the IP.
Game over, alien win. The trouble is the aliens can hop in and out of the marine spawn without any danger of getting killed, even as a 1hive vanilla skulk.
This can be corrected, but would require the MS to be approx twice as wide and about half as high again as it currently is. This story is repeated all around the map. There are no areas where the marines can fight on their own terms, fades, oni, and skulks appear around corners and are on you before you have a chance, a good blinking fade on this map is virtually unstoppable. Turtles in MS, which happen very soon after the second hive is up because of the alien advantage, last for 4-5 mins then it's game over, there is no chance of a fightback, in fact there is no real chance of a fight at all.
It saddens me to write this because this is one of the most beautiful maps ever made, yes it can be corrected, by adding height and width at various points around the map, but it will be at the cost of the intimacy and beauty that has put this map where it is now.
You have a choice to make moultano, continue with this beautiful map as is, realism at the expense of gameplay, or you are going to have to make a few changes and sacrifice some of the realism for improved gamplay.
The trouble will be once you start to make things higher and wider, you will experience higher r-speeds. Higher r-speeds will cause you to have to lose some of the beauty and detail in the map to bring them back down. This will be the sacrifice. I hate to say this, and hope that people can prove me wrong, especially in the CAL pre-season, but i fear this map may get a thumbs down from the competitive community as it really isn't as playable as it needs to be.
I now go and hang my head in shame at having to put this down in words. I am sorry if i haven't articulated this very well, please don't start flaming me for saying this but it is the truth as i see it. If i can do anything to help with the changes and problems, just ask and i will give you all the detailed info i can. I would love for nothing more than this to suceed, i hope it does.
[EDIT] One other thing, when i fell down draft shafts as an onos, i couldnt get out as the ladder isn't wide enough <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> [/EDIT]
People have been complaining of an overall alien bias in 3.1, so I suspect some of it can be attributed to that, but there certainly is work to be done. I need feedback like this <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So far in the version that I've got on my hard disk, I've widened up the hallway in maintenance above the elevator that leads to the steam tunnels to approximately twice its width, widened the entrances to the marine start, widened the hallway in the steam tunnels with the breakable grate up top to about twice its width, widened databurst transmission to 1.5 times its length (in the area with the consoles). I've also enlarged the hallway between the marine start and maintenance on the east side, and took out the big vis blocking brush that was only needed for r_speeds when cryochambers were south of the marine start. (it looks much better now too)
I've only run into one r_speeds issue so far that only comes up if you place yourself creatively in shiva core, so I'm not too worried about those in general. I'm handy with hint brushes.
I've modified the marine start some, but it clearly needs more work. How would you reccommend I do it? I'd really like to keep the consoles that I have in there, but those lead to r_speed issues if I make the entrances more visible. I'm thinking I may just have to bite the bullet and either take them out, or separate them into the hallways exiting, or something like that. Do you think I could fix the issues with the marine start by only enlarging the area with the spawn points and comm chair, or are the entrances the real issue? I designed the marine start the way I did mostly cause I was really sick of the long endgames on eclipse, but it seems I swung too far in the opposite direction.
My hope is that the spaceship feeling has more to do with the placement of the rooms, the visuals, and the views through the hull than simply the narrowness of the corridoors, but we'll see.
I have more polygons to play with for this than you might think, I've done a pretty good job of optimising, so I think I should be able to keep the detail, but what I really need to know is what to focus on.
Where should I start? What hallways need the most lovin?
Here's my take on the areas in the map. Tell me where I'm wrong. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<b>Fun for both teams, balanced appropriately:</b>
Mess hall and the hallway leading out of it.
Chemical storage.
Shipment processing.
Sublevel Control.
Generator.
Tunnel.
Datacore Hive.
Lower levels of Maintenance.
(?) Draft Shafts (?)
<b>Awkward for aliens:</b>
Airlock hive. (****ty east side entrance, vent movement issues, very campable)
Hallway on east side of Maintenance with the elevator to coolant.
<b> Awkward for marines:</b>
Shiva core
Marine Start
Many areas of steam tunnels
Hallways around top level of Maintenance
<b> Not sure what to make of yet:</b>
Coolant hive.
Cryochambers.
Databurst transmission
Help me prioritize things.
As a marine, where do you hate to fight and why?
As an alien where do you hate to fight and why?
My design goal at the moment is to make it fun to fight everywhere in the map, and then even if there are layout issues people will still have fun while they are playing on it.
here is the first sugestion.
close the left side in the up pass and close the below pass in the right side and short a bit the right wall.
a second way is:
get the controls stuff rotate 90 degrees anddelete the over top area and glue the com chair in the middle near the controls stuff making a brush conection to look like ppl just conect the cc at the main controls of shiva.
<a href='http://img98.echo.cx/my.php?image=hallwayono9tp5de.jpg' target='_blank'><img src='http://img98.echo.cx/img98/5349/hallwayono9tp5de.th.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>
What about adding two (automatic opening and closing) doors at marine start to slow down alien movement, so that basically there are only two open entrances?
I have to say that I like the first suggestion Carrioca made (with only two entrances).
Greetz,
XtOf
but thats just my opinion
we really need to find the balance between "onos wide" corridors and the atmosphere <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
edit: i like the second entry proposal better ... i think running zigzag out of rine start every time will get pretty annoying
@some posts above (dont remember your name):
what do you think about mines? those five res are really worth it <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
well moult when youre enlarging ms you could maybe raise the rt a little so that the line of sight isnt blocked by the consoles
I really hate that I don't promote this map more because the new WAD files won't download overtop of the old...
Anyone else have this problem (if you've used the other versions, and then just updated the files)?
Can this be fixed...pretty please? (name them the same as the beta they come with...ns_shivab3.wad)
Hope this gets fixed, I like this map!
EDIT: Just to add, I'm talking from a dedicated server standpoint. If the server had an older shiva version, and the clients downloaded the map already, when they download the new shivab3 they don't get the new wad file because it is the SAME name as the older versions...therefore textures are missing!
I really hate that I don't promote this map more because the new WAD files won't download overtop of the old...
Anyone else have this problem (if you've used the other versions, and then just updated the files)?
Can this be fixed...pretty please? (name them the same as the beta they come with...ns_shivab3.wad)
Hope this gets fixed, I like this map!
EDIT: Just to add, I'm talking from a dedicated server standpoint. If the server had an older shiva version, and the clients downloaded the map already, when they download the new shivab3 they don't get the new wad file because it is the SAME name as the older versions...therefore textures are missing! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll wadinclude it for the next version. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Unfortunately I haven't been able to work on the next version at all. New egg was supposed to ship my new motherboard on monday, and it hasn't left their facilities yet . . .
Last time I use them for anything time sensitive.
agreed.
the ms is little packed for my taste. when aliens start rushing in there isnt enough space for marines to get out. "w3 g0t tha ornos roadbl0ck ffs!!!1111" <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Unfortunately I haven't been able to work on the next version at all. New egg was supposed to ship my new motherboard on monday, and it hasn't left their facilities yet . . .
Last time I use them for anything time sensitive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No problem, as long as you are aware of it, and something is done about it because I love this map and so do a lot of my regulars!
Thanks moultano, keep up the great work!
nice one
<!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo--> zone.Blackwolf™
work can begin again <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
work can begin again <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh Joy of Joy's. I really hope everything gets sorted and this becomes the map it deserves to. If you want to meet up and have a walk around the map on your server so we can go over the points i made, i feel it would be easier to explain that way, then i will have a go at suggesting some of my ideas to counter the problems i brought up.
<img src='http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/~rmoulton/ms1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/~rmoulton/ms2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/~rmoulton/mslayout.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />