cloaks?

theodoulos

So I may get some flack for this but its an idea for a means of defense vs. hostiles without guns. The cloak would be only workable on the subs (personally I think both mini and cyclops), and combine this with the suggested gathering arm attachment would make subs vital for gathering resources in dangerous areas without the need for weapons. Only concern is to have certain situations which going out and personally swimming is better/only option while still maintaining some level of strategy to keep yourself safe to a certain degree, such as a rare and valuable resouce found in deep water caves.

edit: also as a second thought you cant leave sub while its cloaked either forcfully or you cant find it again (until it runs out of power). Sure you can place beacon but since you can't see it you can't climb in.

InogoodatUsername

This seems like a good idea! But you shouldn't be allowed to be cloaked for a long time or it would be overpowered. Maybe 15 second would give you enough time to get away and keep you from sticking around for long. This should only be on the bigger sizes of subs and exploration vehicles in general (shorter time for these). If you honk your horn the creatures should notice you. There should also be some big sized predators that can cloak themselves only giving away a telltale shimmer and some other ones that can see through your cloak (although there shouldn't be very many of them).

FrostyFish

But how do you compensate for the diffraction and diffusion issues inherent in using a cloaking device underwater!? :O The madness!

sayerulz

FrostyFish wrote: »

But how do you compensate for the diffraction and diffusion issues inherent in using a cloaking device underwater!? :O The madness!

I would think that one could use diffraction and diffusion to ones advantage when making a cloak....

FrostyFish

sayerulz wrote: »

FrostyFish wrote: »

But how do you compensate for the diffraction and diffusion issues inherent in using a cloaking device underwater!? :O The madness!

I would think that one could use diffraction and diffusion to ones advantage when making a cloak....

It's mostly a thing about how in most SciFi games/anime/movies ect. water is shown to have disruptive effects on cloaking. I believe a lot of the general reasons is that the cameras/reflective coating/ect. used in fictional cloaking devices end up diffracting light weirdly as a result of water/rain and they freak out.

FrostyFish

FrostyFish wrote: »

sayerulz wrote: »

FrostyFish wrote: »

But how do you compensate for the diffraction and diffusion issues inherent in using a cloaking device underwater!? :O The madness!

I would think that one could use diffraction and diffusion to ones advantage when making a cloak....

It's mostly a thing about how in most SciFi games/anime/movies ect. water is shown to have disruptive effects on cloaking. I believe a lot of the general reasons is that the cameras/reflective coating/ect. used in fictional cloaking devices end up diffracting light weirdly as a result of water/rain and they freak out.

theodoulos

I would think that a cloak lasting 5 minutes would be good (for exploration in hostile areas vs. means of escape...plus it would help you enjoy the beuty of the creatures when your not running from them), but with a few things that would help balance it: hostiles will be alerted to your presence from sounds (i.e. AI alerting you to low food levels or crashing into the enviroment), the cloak would go from 100% to 20% in about 5 minutes (perhaps 2 or 3 minutes if that is too long)(at 20% power the cloak will automatically deactivate), and the cloak will not work in high temperature areas. In refernence to water diffraction maybe that's another balancing idea such as getting too close and they will sense you (perhaps at first bumping into you in curiosity at the anomaly and then going hostile)

SuburbanCamo

Great concept, but i think you're forgetting something. Most aquatic animals have terrible sight. they use alternative means of sniffing out prey, such as sonar, actual smell, feelers, etc. so to be a gigantic cloaked sub going past a crab snakes antennae, you'd most likely have problems. However, im not an idiot, and im aware that this game is purely fictional, so perhaps it could work still, but you do have to keep those factors in mind.

sayerulz

SuburbanCamo wrote: »

Great concept, but i think you're forgetting something. Most aquatic animals have terrible sight. they use alternative means of sniffing out prey, such as sonar, actual smell, feelers, etc. so to be a gigantic cloaked sub going past a crab snakes antennae, you'd most likely have problems. However, im not an idiot, and im aware that this game is purely fictional, so perhaps it could work still, but you do have to keep those factors in mind.

I would note that most of the creatures in this game have MASSIVE eyes, so maby on this planet evolution has favored eyesight more for aquatic creatures.

SuburbanCamo

@sayerulz a lot of our aquatic life have massive eyes too, yet they arent always dominant. also, most creatures with larger eyes in subnautica are passive, so cloaking against passive creatures is a little silly. still, it IS a fictional game, so anything truly does go, provided the devs see fit.

tarek

i have a simpler solution ... add torpedoes to subs to kill hostile creatures

theodoulos

you guys have made good points about sea creatures using other means of detection, but I do see the creatures in shallow waters (above 200 meters) using eyesight, so perhaps the cloak will work on creatures found above 200 meters, but for deep water you need to somehow capture and study some of them to discover details on how they detect other creatures so you can enhance your sub o compensate, such as sonar absorbtion (which you will need to discover the frequencies that the hostiles use in order to avoid them). Going back to diffraction as a balancing thing after thinking about it personally I don't like it since it defeats the purpose of the cloak, though perhaps certain intelligent creatures thats how it can work.

FrostyFish

Well the reality is that the developers probably didn't create an equivalent system to "electroreception" that seems to be used by many real world aquatic life creatures. Which I suppose would outright negate any cloaking device...

SuburbanCamo

In this game, me, tarek, sayerulz, and a few others seem like the minority, where 9/10 times we would LOVE to kill that creature ready to tear our sub in 2. However, that isn't what the devs are going to do, nor is it what the majority wants for this game's sort of survival, where people are suggesting to use more defensive strategies. I have an idea to intertwine the 2 ideas, so that it doesnt kill the big hulk of a crab, but it also doesn't give it much incentive to come back after us. Perhaps an electromagnetic field on the sub would do trick, or some sort of "sonar scream" where if the creature gets too close, you emit a high (and high powered) frequency straight into its face to hopefully send it scurrying. this is slightly more realistic than the electromagnetic field, considering then that the surrounding area of your sub would be turbo-charged with death if you leave it. Again, these are ideas, so while i'd still love for people to challenge them/agree or disagree, I'd rather not hear thee "for coral's sake" people start bashing other survival games for having or using weapons.

Seldkam

You're not understanding why we are bashing weapons it seems

Yes, one reason i's that killing is unnecessary... But the main reason is just that we want to see a different type of game, that5 looks at how it handles death in a different way

That being said, I like the banshee scream idea

SuburbanCamo

@Seldkam i understand perfectly why the majority of people dont want it, and what you say is the second reason is basically a reiteration of the first, and i respect that whim. I gave a defensive idea, but while the majority doesn't want a game about kill this, kill that, i would very much like to see it, because i would like to engage these creatures. i dont care if i lose 100% of the time, but id like it to at least seem like a fighting chance (this is to ward the "run at it with your knife then idiot" posts that would follow that comment). and even though i most likely won't get what i want, im still (mostly) happy with this game and will definitely continue to play, and give feedback for it to grow.

InogoodatUsername

If you want to brutally kill things rather than explore the unique and beautiful world then there will be mods for that. Now lets all shut up about this and let the devs build their game while we give helpful suggestions LIKE WE ARE SUPPOSED TO!

theodoulos

@InogoodatUsername I think you misunderstood SuburbanCamo's previous comment...yes he is interested in weapons but is willing to submit to the devs (and the majority of others) of nonlethal options. However he would be interested in seeing the banshee scream type of implementation since it has more of an "active aggression" feel to it (for the life of me I can't name that word that's on the tip of my tongue) without the lethal force. Hope this helps clarify and forgive me if I mucked it up. (And who knows maybe I misunderstood the comment)

Seldkam

SuburbanCamo wrote: »

@Seldkam i understand perfectly why the majority of people dont want it, and what you say is the second reason is basically a reiteration of the first, and i respect that whim. I gave a defensive idea, but while the majority doesn't want a game about kill this, kill that, i would very much like to see it, because i would like to engage these creatures. i dont care if i lose 100% of the time, but id like it to at least seem like a fighting chance (this is to ward the "run at it with your knife then idiot" posts that would follow that comment). and even though i most likely won't get what i want, im still (mostly) happy with this game and will definitely continue to play, and give feedback for it to grow.

you really are missing the point lol: "doesn't want a game about kill this, kill that, i would very much like to see it, because i would like to engage these creatures"

That's exactly what the game ISN"T about dude

InogoodatUsername

Wasn't this forum for talking about the cloaks idea. :-/ There is another forum for weapons.

SuburbanCamo

@Seldkam so by your logic, because the game doesn't include weapons/killing, im not allowed to state that i would like to see it? isnt that almost directly the point of a forum, to provide feedback on what you would like to see happen to the game? and again, im not saying it has to be done. and just because the majority wants something, doesnt mean i have to concede my opinions. trust me, you'll have your game, and ill play it too according to the dev's directions. but i think that despite how futile my ideas and comments may be, i can still voice them, im not being toxic or over the top about it. and @InogoodatUsername Yes the title and main theory of this forum thread was about cloaks, but because certain flaws with that idea were stated, people gave suggestions to change the execution while still having a similar effect, mine being the "sonar scream" that some are actually taking a bit of a liking to. it seems i need to point out 2 things:
1. This is NOT a weapon. its a defensive mechanism to get the beast off your sub before you get eaten alive, and NO it wont kill it. so while you could potentially run after this thing blaring your screech on cooldown, theres not much reason to do so.
2. this is an IDEA. just like the cloaks theory was an idea. so why should only one thought be allowed on a post, especially if people find theory-breaking flaws with it? they all circle around the main point of an "active camofluage" which is that its a defensive action.
Not trying to hurt or bash, but please read the full comment rather than skim and say "nope he's just another guy who wants to turn this into a dumb underwater fps hes ignorant"

Seldkam

putting words and thoughts into my mouth isn't gonna help the situation

On the internet I generally think its best to take things both literally and with a grain of salt LOL, so when I said you're missing my point I didn't mean you CAN'T say anything, just that if you are stating you want weapons then you should realize that's not what the games about, that's all

theodoulos

I din't think there were that many issues with the cloak idea...sure there were thoughts about diffraction and other means of detection but could easily use them to make the game more interesting.