Lerk Purpose - Timid

SlithersSlithers Join Date: 2010-07-30 Member: 73368Posts: 121Members
The Lerk is a class that I favour a lot and would "want" to play a lot more if it wasn't so weak. I understand you can get kills on it, you use the chem trail to blind Marines, but other than that, the class even compared to a skulk is kind of weak.

In my honest opinion, I enjoyed the spray gas from the distant over the chem trail, but that's just me. My question is, will there be any more changes and implementations for the Lerk to be a more useful class that people will "want" to play as a key role for the game?
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Comments

  • internetexplorerinternetexplorer Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Posts: 1,369Members
    Just chiming in to say I agree with you.

    I played some really satisfying games as lerk tonight, but whenever someone really tried to shotgun me, the outcome was pretty saddening.
  • JFryJFry Join Date: 2004-09-25 Member: 31910Posts: 5Members
    I miss the old gas model too. I wish we could have both actually. Dunno if that is planned tho.
  • TrueVeritasTrueVeritas Join Date: 2006-10-20 Member: 58082Posts: 348Members
    they wanted people who played the lerk to "get up close and be a part of the action".

    too bad they gave the entire marine team shotguns
  • RockyMarcRockyMarc Join Date: 2009-11-24 Member: 69519Posts: 473Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Maybe with 2nd and 3rd hive we could get some extras :)
    Like umbra, or what not.
  • SlithersSlithers Join Date: 2010-07-30 Member: 73368Posts: 121Members
    I think the original Gas Spray they had was a lot more effective and interesting, it's a ranged glass cannon type of class. I am sure they could tweak the gas itself so it's not overpowered and make it useful again.

    What about being able to pick up the Gorge off the ground and bringing him up high in to vents and other locations on the map aswell?

  • StarkwindStarkwind Join Date: 2011-07-26 Member: 112394Posts: 41Members
    i miss the old gas model... perhaps it wouldnt be so bad if the gas fell even like a crop duster (this has been brought up before i know)
  • olisisolisis Join Date: 2003-02-01 Member: 12944Posts: 311Members
    QUOTE (Slithers @ Feb 27 2012, 01:29 AM) »
    What about being able to pick up the Gorge off the ground and bringing him up high in to vents and other locations on the map aswell?


    I <3 Lerklift. Was so much fun
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  • MajinMajin Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16829Posts: 2,448Members, Constellation
    edited February 2012
    I think the Lerk needs to be adjusted to be sure.. its a class that seems to only be used for dropping spore clouds as he flies through the room.. not really useful anymore.
    The Lerk needs something more than spike.. or spike needs to become more powerful.
    Maybe look at NS1 Lork to get ideas.. it always seemed to be used back in NS1
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • MajinMajin Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16829Posts: 2,448Members, Constellation
    I just thought of something.. What if you gave the Lerk webs?

    That way he can set up traps for jet packers???

    I always thought web was a great gorge ability, but maybe the Lerk can do more with it...

    just an idea...
    Original NS bad ass
  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Posts: 1,566Members
    Lerk can certainly use some love, a Hive 2 ability perhaps...

    Would be neat if Lerk could buff fellow aliens with an Umbra Spray, which also lets them carry a small Umbra cloud with them.
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  • Laosh'RaLaosh'Ra Join Date: 2011-12-09 Member: 137232Posts: 897Members
    tbh i like the gas as it is. you can also use it to irritate sentry guns, something a shoot-gas-lerk is probably not going to have.
    in 1v1 it might actually be quite inferior to a skulk if you go for an all-in.
    i think gas only really makes sense to keep marines away from certain locations (e.g. destroyed powernodes) or to prepare an assault for your teammates.
    it is also possible to stop a marine rush without even getting into melee range: start the gas while flying away from them. if you were roosted and/or cloaked before, they usually cannot react fast enough, if you fly a straight line they might still hit you through the gas though.
    i also saw someone flying in a circle around my marine, nowhere to escape for me without losing any health or waiting for the gas to disappear.

    overall the lerk could use some minor buff, yes. 30 is really not that cheap... but i like their gas-concept in general.
    maybe it could just deal a bit more damage? bypassing the armor does not help that much unless you go all the way reducing their health without scratching the armor. and that somehow contradicts the idea of using gas combined with other kharaa types.
  • twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Posts: 1,804Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited February 2012
    Maybe all Lerk needs is a cost reduction (20?). In term of raw combat power, Lerks are weaker vs Marines, compared to Shotguns vs Hive 1 Kharaa.

    Overall, the cost of 30 PRes seems quite steep for a "support" class that has a short expectancy.

    Wider spore cloud trail would also help a lot.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • ZootZoot Join Date: 2011-01-21 Member: 78469Posts: 26Members
    edited February 2012
    I love playing Lerk but they definitely need some love. The flight mechanics are perfect imo and the spores are fine (until there are multiple shotguns) but the spikes need some work. I feel the spike rate of fire should be slower and the damage much higher...Also it would be awesome if the spike single shot was on like a 30 sec cooldown and if it hit a marine he would take damage over time and also start leaking lerk spores for like 5 seconds or so..would make the people wanting the old lerk gas happy without being overpowered while adding an element of skill :)
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • SlithersSlithers Join Date: 2010-07-30 Member: 73368Posts: 121Members
    See, everyone here loves to play the Lerk, but we all avoid it for the most part, due to the simple fact that the Fade, Skulk, Gorge, Onos always offer something way more and useful.
    The Lerk needs something, I don't know what it is myself, but it definately needs to pack a bit more of a punch and be put more to use then it is now, I am sure UWE will figure something out, or people can help them.
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Posts: 1,731Members
    edited February 2012
    I'm not sure a significant buff is the solution, we had a couple of builds where the lerk was very strong and it wasn't so fun, specially because the whole alien team can go lerk. One of the problem is the shotgun, marines can get it right away for free with the starting ip, and it's a bit too strong I think.

    The flight mechanics is nice but a bit simple, there is not much you can do to gain speed or avoid bullets.

    For the spores it would be really cool to give them the speed of the lerk on creation, and a bit of gravity and friction. But I imagine It would be pretty bad for performances.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Posts: 1,892Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited February 2012
    QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Feb 27 2012, 05:40 AM) »
    Just chiming in to say I agree with you.

    I played some really satisfying games as lerk tonight, but whenever someone really tried to shotgun me, the outcome was pretty saddening.

    I think the real reason that lerks feels so weak is because of the shotgun buff.
    And the fact that shotguns are almost able to 1shot lerks(5hp after 1 full hit), with no weapon upgrades.
    Against shotgunners, gassing is usually suicide, unless you're sneaky, or have carapace(survives 1 full sg hit, weapon 0, with 53hp and a bit of armor).

    The shotgun currently work as a sniper, too much damage on range, and maybe a bit too much damage in general.
    Post edited by Unknown User on

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    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 28 2012, 08:41 PM) »
    it's always a good idea to kill swalk or he will kill you.
  • countbasiecountbasie Join Date: 2008-12-27 Member: 65884Posts: 820Members
    The NS1-Lerk was perfect. Get out for gasing, get shortly in for killing (grab one human after wearing him down with poison like a mean little predator).
    Now it's the other way around. Get in for gasing, get out for killing (fart and throw things like a mean old grandpa).

    Not that every class should be like in NS1, but yes, the lerk needs tweaking. Would like him to bite again..
  • assbdaassbda Join Date: 2011-05-02 Member: 96737Posts: 253Members
    If the lerk had an extra 50 health and 25 armor then survival will be fine.

    As for the gassing i like the new method cause its so intense flying through a corridor with marines left and right.
    Im not too fond of his spikes tho, he should be a biter.
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  • FlounderFlounder Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31656Posts: 177Members
    Spikes are just so useless. Any 0 res lmg will win vs 30 res lerk in a long range fight. Ditch the spikes and give him his bite back and try it for a build or two. Just try it. It's beta.
  • SmasherSmasher Join Date: 2005-03-06 Member: 43732Posts: 268Members
    The new gas trail doesn't really offer a way to force marines out of a room/an area like the old cloud-spores did.. now, marines just have to either stand still or just walk to somewhere where there is no gas (as a Lerk can't really gas the entire room, no matter how small it is due to corners and stuff.. not a good idea to fly into a corner and get stuck there:P)
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  • Salraine_ChiSalraine_Chi Join Date: 2011-07-03 Member: 107669Posts: 158Members, Reinforced - Shadow

    I thought I was the only person who preferred the old spore attack. I always saw the lerk as the support class. Hiding in the vents and roofs shooting the spores at entrances to hive or exits to marine areas as area denial and only using the spikes as self defence, and the one shot alt firing as long distance sniper. Spores from distance to support fade and Skulk attacks was fun too. The spores as they are don't frighten Or deter the marines and I personally never worry about being in a cloud of spores and rarely see marines die from it. Flying among even one or two marines is a game of chance. One good hit and you are down, 30 res gone. Its especially annoying when as a Lerk you drop to the ground the instant you just touch an object, or as happened to me last night, flying over a marines head I glanced the tip of his head and fell at his feet.

    The option to shoot spores at distance as they were could be a choice on second hive maybe? Giving the Lerk a chance against marines who by then normally have armour upgrades and shotguns/GL's etc.

    sal
  • VolccisVolccis Join Date: 2011-12-11 Member: 137452Posts: 32Members
    So far I have liked playing Lerk. The current gas is imo better than projectile gas. Anyway the current lerk is a bit weak against good players but strong against decent players.

    Spikes are just too unaccuracy and needs huge buff. Same with "shotgun" spikes and also should cost alot less energy.
    Make spikes alot more accuracy and increase "shotgun" damage, accuracy and reduce energy cost.

    Current gas is fine imo but it would have an addition effect to make marines dizzy.

    Lerk should have third ability. Perhaps umbra, some kind of super speed for 10 seconds, projectile gas, bite, sticky bomb which would cost 75% energy and would immobilize marines for 5 seconds in large area, knock back with head which wouldnt do damage, and so on. It just depends how people would want to play lerk, more as support or offensive?
  • _Necro__Necro_ Join Date: 2011-02-15 Member: 81895Posts: 1,903Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I like the spore mechanic too. Not only does it give me area control, so I can stop incoming marines. It is one of the best parts to encourage teamplay on the alien side. Because sporing a room with marines and than let in the dogs, to chew some a.. while you are hanging on the ceiling and assisting with spike is a priceless feeling.

    Ok, this would be possible too with shooting spore clouds. But than it would be overpowered. The only real problem is, that the shotgun is balanced for rambo-marines. One good shotgunner is enough to kill a lerk. So why should this shotgunner move with others of his team. And when he does, how overpowered is this? With 3 or more people with shotgun, you can expect someone to be able to hit you and than there are 30res gone.
  • NakorsonNakorson Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140253Posts: 554Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Maybe there should be a ranged gas which is weaker then the normal gas. But it would be nice to harass and keep the marines from camping positions all the time.
  • lunsluns Join Date: 2010-12-05 Member: 75502Posts: 805Members
    QUOTE (TrueVeritas @ Feb 27 2012, 06:13 AM) »
    too bad they gave the entire marine team shotguns


    the problem behind this is the current armory, and personal resources. Rather then depend on the commander to supply the marines, marines depend more the armory for weapons. the relationship between commander and marines is broken, they act far more independent. The armory must be tied better to the commander.

    this game is now made like CoD or counter-strike, marines have their own personal resources, and nice buy menu. All is missing is adding exp for leveling honestly. This is one of those combat ideas charlie got, and still has not changed/improved the idea of while it has been actually big problem. been said before, and been ignored before.

    now to the lerk issue

    if you want to keep the current broken gas trail, keep it but make simple tweak to it.

    holding it would release gas trail behind the lerk as he flying but tapping it would release it as projectile.

    if you want the lerk to actually be useful in combat;

    1.bring back lerk bite
    2.give him umbra
    3.add the old gas modal back
  • MiniH0wieMiniH0wie Join Date: 2007-11-25 Member: 63013Posts: 526Members
    I really hate the new gas spore trail, especially now with early shotguns. It's definitely a suicide run.
    The spore trail is just too easy for Marine to avoid it. Marine - Well I see there's a smoke trail here, I'll just step to the side. Problem solved...
    Lerk is too weak to be "Up close and in direct combat" and it's a high price to pay for a short lived life form.

    I too prefer the old NS1 style where you could keep your distance but still force out the Marines from area.


    Oh and lerk lift would be awesome to have again. Even the possiblity to lift a marine and drop him off a cliff. ;)
    Skulks to the left of the me, Fades to the right, here I am, Stuck in the middle with noobs.

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  • Ph0enixPh0enix Join Date: 2002-10-08 Member: 1462Posts: 1,513Members, Constellation
    My problem with spore trail is its high risk, meh reward, only truely worth it if a bunch of skulks/fades are jumping on a bunch of marines. And then Kharaa have to know to switch to hive sight.

    Spike also needs tweaking, specifically they need to be more accurate. Lower damage and/or RoF to compensate if needed but they can't hit the broad side of barn at mid range and above and its really frustrating.
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  • KrizzenKrizzen Join Date: 2011-12-16 Member: 138181Posts: 100Members
    I think

    1) Spore radius should be a bit larger. Marines just have to duck and sidestep about the length of a marine and they're out of the gas.
    2) Lerk health/armor should be boosted slightly. I like assbda's 50 health / 25 armor suggestion.
    3) Perhaps spore gas could "settle", taking up more surface area over time before disappearing, thus increasing the likelihood that any marines in a gassed room will be gassed. This could totally alleviate the spore radius problem.

    Those changes would probably make the lerk a lot better.
  • 2sBlind2sBlind Join Date: 2011-11-08 Member: 131738Posts: 35Members
    I too liked the old gas model. Would be fun to try out ranged spores and bite.
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Posts: 730Members, Reinforced - Gold
    I like the current gas model, but the lerk needs a little more armor and another useful ability for the late game

    I guess the lerk will get some love eventually.
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