Blog update - Marine concepts

MaxMax Technical Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment Join Date: 2002-03-15 Member: 318Posts: 1,649Super Administrators, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, Subnautica Developer admin
It's been a little while since we've had a blog update, so here you go. It's not because we don't have cool stuff to show off, just that we've been so darn busy that it's hard to get the time to write some of it up. Expect a lot more visual stuff to be coming your way.
Max McGuire
Technical Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment
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Comments

  • ScytheScythe Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 46Posts: 4,369NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation, Reinforced - Silver mod
    edited August 2007
    It's nice to see some more concept art. It seems that the art direction seems to be mostly along the same lines as the original NS, a good thing to be sure. I also like that real-life practical considerations are being made to lend an air of authenticity to the concepts. Nothing's more jarring than seeing a sci-fi space marine holding a piece of equipment that looks downright uncomfortable to use.

    One thing I'm not so sure about is the merit of giving the players avatar customisation options beyond choice of sex. It would all depend on the pacing of the combat. Take Quake 3 on one end of the spectrum. Your player character choices are vastly different. You've got eyeballs on legs and insectoids. These are appropriate avatar choices only because of the speed of the combat. In order to stand out in a game of that speed you need something that's radically different from the other players. At the other end of the spectrum you could look at a game like Swat 4. The differences in your team-mates might be down to the insignia they've chosen or some equipment they have on their back. This is suitable because of the much slower pace of the game. You've got time to take stock and notice smaller details in a slower-paced game.

    I guess what I'm getting at is this: Are these cosmetic differences going to be noticeably worthwhile given the pace of the combat of NS?

    --Scythe--
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • J!J! NS2 Artist Join Date: 2004-11-14 Member: 32788Posts: 422Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester
    edited August 2007
    Yes, of course. Just how fast do you think the pace of NS combat is? I get plenty of time to look at aliens and marines when I play. I don't think it is going to be an issue at all.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • MasterPTGMasterPTG Join Date: 2006-11-30 Member: 58780Posts: 283Members
    I'm so choosing the girl avatar b/c she looks hot. =D.
  • CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Join Date: 2003-02-07 Member: 13249Posts: 1,010Members
    I find this to be a very interesting blog! Especially since a number of discussions in NS2 Ideas & Suggestions, like this one: http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=101828 have been discussing just this!

    I am glad for the decision to integrate the GUI/HUD and an "open" face design. This direction should be a ton of fun.

    When it comes to the "modular" intent of the armor, could this mean that with an ugrade to armor, there would be a slightly different look? Same with carapace?

    And when it comes to a custom look, could this also mean there will be medals, badges, or grafitti on a marines armor?

    And with the intent of custom look to some degree, would there be different skins the Kharaa might use? Like variations in color? Perhaps tiger stripes, mottled camouflage, leopard spots? Just to take some inspiration from possibly cool looking predator skins...

    Again, thank you for the blog, very interesting and very encouraging!
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu Anememone Join Date: 2002-03-23 Member: 345Posts: 10,501Members
    Man, those all look awesome. I like #8, too bad it got rejected biggrin-fix.gif

    I can't wait to see more of NS2. Everything you guys drop is solid gold. Keep up the absolutely amazing work!
    QUOTE (MOOtant @ Sep 21 2012, 11:06 AM) »
    What is wrong with being a racist?

  • MaxMax Technical Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment Join Date: 2002-03-15 Member: 318Posts: 1,649Super Administrators, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, Subnautica Developer admin
    QUOTE(Scythe @ Aug 3 2007, 09:47 PM) »
    I guess what I'm getting at is this: Are these cosmetic differences going to be noticeably worthwhile given the pace of the combat of NS?

    The (somewhat) fast paced combat is only one piece of the game, although I think the level of customization we're talking about would be visible. The real goal for adding avatar customization is to enhance the teamplay aspect of the game which is actually the main focus of NS2. The way we see it, if you can easily identify your buddies, it's easier to work together.

    Max McGuire
    Technical Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment
  • aeroripperaeroripper Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42471Posts: 1,992NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation mod
    edited August 2007
    Would it be possible to have these helmets get knocked\torn off during intense combat? Nothing would be neater than seeing a xeno going off in a group of marines only to see all their helmets get knocked off from the shockwave. This would also show off the different avatars of the different players.

    I like the idea of customization, as long as its it not too extreme, or over the top. It would take away from the atmosphere of the game if somebody's helmet popped off only to reveal a giant blue afro.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • ChocolateChocolate The Team Mascot Join Date: 2006-10-31 Member: 58123Posts: 404Members
    edited August 2007
    QUOTE(aeroripper @ Aug 3 2007, 11:30 PM) »

    I like the idea of customization, as long as its it not too extreme, or over the top. It would take away from the atmosphere of the game if somebody's helmet popped off only to reveal a giant blue afro.

    I would laugh so hard if I ever saw that happen tounge.gif.

    Besides that, great stuff guys! Me likes the updates. I think #5 is the best, followed by #4, then #6 and then #7. It still shows the most important part of the human body (the face) while still looking somewhat technological. Also personally, I wouldn't want a too elaborate helmet anyway, ever heard of the quote "less is more"?

    I don't think I like #8 tho, the helmet looks like it it would belong more in the Kharaa rather than the Marines. I dunno why, the design just feels more Alien than Marine. Tho the idea of removable parts would be pretty cool and unique (I haven't seen a game implement that yet).

    QUOTE(MasterPTG @ Aug 3 2007, 10:03 PM) »
    I'm so choosing the girl avatar b/c she looks hot. =D.

    Much agreed tounge.gif, but I would also choose it because I like the slick slenderness of the female character smile-fix.gif.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    QUOTE
    Friendly fire - isn't


    Ingame Name: Chocolate

    Creator of:
    The Art of Dropping
  • KungFuDiscoMonkeyKungFuDiscoMonkey Creator of ns_altair Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14555Posts: 2,587Members, NS1 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos mod
    Is there any consideration to what will happen if multiple people select the same options? Will you have a team of clones or will there be some randomness involved to further distinguish players?
    毎日勉強したら上手になるよ
  • J!J! NS2 Artist Join Date: 2004-11-14 Member: 32788Posts: 422Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester
    edited August 2007
    There's a number of ways we could do that KFDM, but we haven't discussed any of our options in detail. I would love to see no two players ever look alike, but that may be unreasonable given our limited resources.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • JediYoshiJediYoshi The Cupcake Boss Join Date: 2002-05-27 Member: 674Posts: 4,831Members
    Bring back the facepaint!
    zGVPR2v.gif
  • AlcapwnAlcapwn "War is the science of destruction" - John Abbot Join Date: 2003-06-21 Member: 17590Posts: 1,965Members
    QUOTE(Scythe @ Aug 3 2007, 09:47 PM) »

    I guess what I'm getting at is this: Are these cosmetic differences going to be noticeably worthwhile given the pace of the combat of NS?

    --Scythe--


    I think it will be; how many times have you been crouched in a corner defending your TF while its uprading with an HMG in hand, and several companions by your side? There are lulls in the action where you can take in the coolness of the art. Its happened several times to me when i first got into NS.



    QUOTE(JJJ1 @ Aug 4 2007, 12:27 AM) »

    There's a number of ways we could do that KFDM, but we haven't discussed any of our options in detail. I would love to see no two players ever look alike, but that may be unreasonable given our limited resources.


    Perhaps it could be like Rainbow Six: Vegas character customization.

    Also, you can make a small set when you first ship the game, and then just patch in more later. You do have steam...you can just throw em on there when you like.
    *IMAGE BALEETED.* Sigs may not exceed 400x75 and/or 40KB. No exceptions. -Talesin
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Posts: 1,435Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver
    Boobs and NS !!
    Finally my two favorites come together biggrin-fix.gif

    No, seriously, this looks great.
    NS2 Map in progress, ns2_summit

    Spark tutorial for curved floors/corridors (included in the map thread in the last section of the 1st post)
  • RadixRadix Join Date: 2005-01-10 Member: 34654Posts: 964Members, Constellation
    Very nice, and very nice to see that the community input is being noticed and picked up on (if that is indeed where this idea, at least partially, is stemming from).

    One note, which is only my opinion, is that you should keep the visor as it is a heavily distinctive element for the NS art style. Make it removable? Sure. Sleekify it? Definitely. Heck, make it slightly larger and transparent, to expose the great facial expressions available in the Source engine.

    The first concept is my favorite.
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  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Posts: 3,175Members, Constellation
    edited August 2007
    This topic makes x5 very happy! biggrin-fix.gif

    QUOTE
    We're not committed to character customization yet since we're not sure if we'll have the art resources to do full customization of your avatar's appearance. But at the most basic level, we'd like to at least provide gender selection, which is why we decided to work with a female model in the concept stage. Hopefully we'll be able to go beyond that for Natural Selection 2 or a future add-on, so we wanted our new design to allow for that.
    Aw come on Max, commit! tounge.gif Ok name your price, how many cookies is it going to take to get modular customization guaranteed?

    QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Aug 3 2007, 10:29 PM) »

    I find this to be a very interesting blog! Especially since a number of discussions in NS2 Ideas & Suggestions, like this one: http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=101828 have been discussing just this!
    Hey! Don't forget this and this too! biggrin-fix.gif

    Customization acknowledges both issues, making NS more unique and allow for a bit more of that social, individuality.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • KisleKisle Join Date: 2006-12-25 Member: 59229Posts: 73Members
    It looks great.

    I like 3 and 7.
  • NentisysNentisys Join Date: 2007-03-08 Member: 60287Posts: 5Members
    Wow, I love the slick look of the female concepts. wow.gif

    Speaking of the helmet concepts im really impressed with all of them, and im especially pleased you went with the sealed neck concept. It doesn't only look really slick but it feels practical also.

    How about the HUD (the holographics over the eyes) be over only one side? That would be neat.
    Also, what about the flashlight? Is it on the helmet or on the gun? it would be really cool ,imo, if it was shown to be on the side of the helmet, for example the area between the top of the ear and the temple.

    Overall = HAWT. marine.gif
    "I like women, men have allways been attracted to evil."
  • ChromeAngelChromeAngel Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 14Posts: 2,677Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    QUOTE(Nentisys @ Aug 4 2007, 09:04 AM) »

    Also, what about the flashlight? Is it on the helmet or on the gun?

    The flashlight appears to be in the middle of the chest plate, shining out a big ol' SHOOT ME HERE. I guess that aspect wasn't designed for marine vs marine combat. Does this mean that NS2 wargear is designed to combat the NS aliens specifically?
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  • NentisysNentisys Join Date: 2007-03-08 Member: 60287Posts: 5Members
    QUOTE(ChromeAngel @ Aug 4 2007, 10:25 AM) »

    The flashlight appears to be in the middle of the chest plate, shining out a big ol' SHOOT ME HERE.


    If that really is the flashlight then isnt it a bit impractical? I mean if I was in that armour and shooting a skulk thats leaping in my face at 40mph, I would assume that my arms / weapon would block most of the light from the flashlight, effectively making it only a, like you said, "big ol' shoot me here".
    "I like women, men have allways been attracted to evil."
  • sherpasherpa stopcommandermode Join Date: 2006-11-04 Member: 58338Posts: 1,043Members
    a lot of thought has gone into this by the devs- but i can't help but feel that perhaps a ittle too much thought.

    i.e.

    QUOTE
    While the original design is distinctive, masking half of the face weakens our connection with the character's humanity


    i first picked up NS on release day, and i can't say i've ever stopped to think "i don't have much of a human connection with my video game marine teammate". perhaps the more intellectual of you have thought that, but surely that's a tiny minority?

    regardless, it's good to see that every stage is looked at seriously. at least we know NS2 isn't going to be half-baked.

    and cory keeps making quality stuff.
    [Fanarama] you're like kryptonite to electronics, sherpa
  • SupernornSupernorn Best. Picture. Ever. Made. Ever. Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7608Posts: 4,412Members, Constellation
    QUOTE(sherpa @ Aug 4 2007, 10:49 AM) »

    a lot of thought has gone into this by the devs- but i can't help but feel that perhaps a ittle too much thought.

    i.e.
    i first picked up NS on release day, and i can't say i've ever stopped to think "i don't have much of a human connection with my video game marine teammate". perhaps the more intellectual of you have thought that, but surely that's a tiny minority?


    I think they are doing the right thing here by taking advantage of the technology available to them.
    Subtle features like how friendly NPCs (or online team-mates) are coded to turn their heads to look at you when you stop to stare make the characters in source really look human. Eye contact does help give you a connection to that person.

    It seems likely that 'submodels' are going to be featured in the way customisation works here, so I'm wondering if this will be expanded on things like armour and weapon upgrades. With the use of submodels, It would be possible for Level 3 weapons to have a very different look to level 1 weapons.
  • ScytheScythe Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 46Posts: 4,369NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation, Reinforced - Silver mod
    I'd always assumed the chest light was for assisting in fine-motor tasks like cleaning your gun or reloading, kind of a utility light. I assumed the flashlight was a separate thing.

    --Scythe--
    image
    "Show me an operation that is running smoothly and I'll show you someone who's covering up mistakes. Real boats rock." - Frank Herbert
    image PAPT
  • aeroripperaeroripper Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42471Posts: 1,992NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation mod
    QUOTE
    Subtle features like how friendly NPCs (or online team-mates) are coded to turn their heads to look at you when you stop to stare make the characters in source really look human. Eye contact does help give you a connection to that person.


    I remember suggesting this a long time ago, hopefully its still an option for the game as it really adds immersion to the characters. If you're looking to add avatar customization anyways, this would definitely help to achieve the effect that you're playing with a human. That was one of the biggest things I loved about hl2dm was when you were near a teammate they looked over at you, very cool effect (along with them blinking like a normal person would).

    Also I think the chest flashlight should stay as it really gives distinction to the art style. If its made more noticeable in NS2, it'd be a sight to see a bunch of marines in a darkened room with their chest lights glowing subtly. It really wouldn't give them away, since the aliens can probably see in the dark anyways.
  • NEX9NEX9 Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44299Posts: 1,642Members
    wow i realy like it and she pulles off the short haired look as well.

    seriously props guys for haveing wicked taste, and well done cory keep at it.
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  • exoityexoity Join Date: 2003-03-17 Member: 14620Posts: 608Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    I really liked helmet design five the best out of all of them but the blue halo around the eyes is amazing.

    Should be able to have helmet come off and used as a weapon, Jason Bourne style.
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  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Posts: 2,742Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2007
    QUOTE(MasterPTG @ Aug 3 2007, 09:03 PM) »

    I'm so choosing the girl avatar b/c she looks hot. =D.


    Me to, but for different reasons.

    Hey Max, will you add some cleavage so annoying 12 year olds can weld me as an excuse to looking at boobies? It's better that than running off and dieing to a skulk.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • NiebelungNiebelung Join Date: 2006-11-12 Member: 58565Posts: 75Members, Constellation
    QUOTE(ChromeAngel @ Aug 4 2007, 01:25 AM) »

    The flashlight appears to be in the middle of the chest plate, shining out a big ol' SHOOT ME HERE. I guess that aspect wasn't designed for marine vs marine combat. Does this mean that NS2 wargear is designed to combat the NS aliens specifically?
    Have you ever used the flashlight in ns? all it does is light up your model . . . now we know why, lol.
    bay-oh-wolf
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu Anememone Join Date: 2002-03-23 Member: 345Posts: 10,501Members
    QUOTE(Niebelung @ Aug 4 2007, 12:30 PM) »

    Have you ever used the flashlight in ns? all it does is light up your model . . . now we know why, lol.


    That's how the flashlight works in every HL mod. In first person it lights up where you look, and in third person it lights you up.
    QUOTE (MOOtant @ Sep 21 2012, 11:06 AM) »
    What is wrong with being a racist?

  • KassingerKassinger Shades of grey Join Date: 2002-02-20 Member: 229Posts: 923Members, Constellation
    QUOTE(Max @ Aug 4 2007, 09:10 AM) »
    The way we see it, if you can easily identify your buddies, it's easier to work together.

    In the armed forces of the real world, we all carry the same uniforms and look to identify more strongly with each other.

    But with this still in mind, on the usually so anonymous internet identifying traits on your teammates will make them seem more realistic as human individuals, and yes might very well promote teamplay.
    "Every absurdity has a champion who will defend it."
  • MaxMax Technical Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment Join Date: 2002-03-15 Member: 318Posts: 1,649Super Administrators, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, Subnautica Developer admin
    QUOTE(Kassinger @ Aug 4 2007, 06:30 PM) »

    In the armed forces of the real world, we all carry the same uniforms and look to identify more strongly with each other.

    But with this still in mind, on the usually so anonymous internet identifying traits on your teammates will make them seem more realistic as human individuals, and yes might very well promote teamplay.

    That's a different meaning of the word 'identify' than how I intended it. I meant it in the sense "John has a red bandanna and I'm supposed to be sticking with John so that I can cover him while he builds". Of course it's also great if players can identify with each other as well!
    Max McGuire
    Technical Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment
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