so if aliens slowly die because of a "absence of hive", then why don't marines die if there is a "absence of comm chair"? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If we are getting into that level of detail, since when did bunnyhopping become SOP for marine combat? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As for a reason, maybe with no hives fighting back the marines are able to assume near complete control of the nanogrid and begin to "flush" it out of the baterium/kharaa thus hurting the kharaa? That explains why defs still work as they can keep the flushing nanites effectively over a much smaller area.
As for the suggestion, I like it. Sooner or later, I am going to write "The Biology of the Kharaa" and this idea would help greatly.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-Hybridclaw+Mar 23 2004, 09:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hybridclaw @ Mar 23 2004, 09:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A hive, specially cultivated in the biodome, began giving birth to immense numbers of the gargantuan Onos Kharaa<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> hmmm..... if the hive is used to spawn in aliens after one has been lost in battle, that would mean that aliens didn't always have a hive since the hive was only made to spawn in replacements, which mean an indivuisual alien does not need a hive to survive. So why would aliens slowly die when all the hives are destroyed? <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Give a man a wheelchair and he will use it, take a wheelchair from a man and he will fall over; however if the man has no concept of a wheelchair he will never need one.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Same concept here with the hives. The aliens can survive without a hive if they can't build one, but they if they have their hive taken away from them their health begins to suffer because they have become dependant on the hive's existence. Because of this a large number of the aliens that were captured with intent of being stored and studied in Biodome probably died before they got to the facility.
Re: Alien resource towers. Alien nodes work like giant lungs, they suck the nanites into their large sack, but instead of pumping the nanites about in their rawr form, the resource towers crush the invidual nanites and the heat (from the friction caused by the nanites' destruction) is then released into the bacterial network.
<!--QuoteBegin-Plaguebearer+Mar 22 2004, 10:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Plaguebearer @ Mar 22 2004, 10:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Bistro, the Kharaa don't use the nanomachines their resource collectors gather as rps to evolve/build/etc. They use the bacterium for that, bacterium that is freed up from fighting the nanomachines that are collected by the resource towers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Where did you read this? Not only does that not really make any sense to me, but I specifically recall reading something in the fluff about the res towers "digesting" the nanosludge.
<!--QuoteBegin-@nthony+Mar 22 2004, 02:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (@nthony @ Mar 22 2004, 02:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> *snip lab scene* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Right, that makes sense. I s'pose if I'm working under the assumption that we made the Kharaa somehow, origin is as good a place as any to start. I just like the idea of it being a malfunction rather than a planned thing, I guess.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
I doubt ns_origin was the start of the infestation, for one the name was decided upon entirely by the mapper and 2 the kharra already have a homeworld which was visited in the heavily researched fanfic Unknown Enemy written by Rob.
As for the resource towers Bistromath, refer to my post above yours
<!--QuoteBegin-Mouse+Mar 23 2004, 02:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mouse @ Mar 23 2004, 02:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> fanfic <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Keyword. If information about maps included with the game aren't canon, (though it's arguable whether that name means anything) then fanfic shouldn't be, either.
As for the RTs, you're talking about the thing where it transmits the heat, right? I don't remember anything like that in the old-school memory, but it seems reasonable, and my memory is crap, so fair enough. I would ask though, what <i>does</i> the Kharaa organism feed on, if this is true? Does it just live off the heat? That is possible, I'll grant, but the idea that it could become so complex with an energy source like that seems rather far-fetched, both because of the lack of chemical intake, and because of the fact that, with an energy source as abundant and easy to process as heat, there would be no <i>need</i> to evolve beyond the simple microbial/fungal/plant stages. So such a thing is possible, but very highly unlikely.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
edited March 2004
yes, I am aware that UE being a fanfic degrades its credability on this matter somewhat, but I know for a fact that the information Rob got on the Kharra homeworld was direct from Jeff Paris. To back this up I'll draw reference to a section of the mapping guidelines, <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/Mapping_Guidelines.html#Depict_Alien_Infestation' target='_blank'>Style Guide - Atmosphere - Depict Alien Infestation</a>. The first bullet point clearly mentions the aliens having come from a homeworld.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for the RTs, you're talking about the thing where it transmits the heat, right? I don't remember anything like that in the old-school memory, but it seems reasonable, and my memory is crap, so fair enough. I would ask though, what does the Kharaa organism feed on, if this is true? Does it just live off the heat?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not exactly, it's the airborne bacteria which lives of the heat; the aliens themselves are sustained by and recieve resources from the airborne bacteria, similar to how a fish harvests oxygen from water. All the heat from the resource towers does is encourage bacterial growth (ie. the visible infestation).
[EDIT] I just located some official info to back this up. <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/manual/alien_healing.html' target='_blank'>Alien healling</a>
I like the original idea (man accidentally creates evil through the desire to become more powerful). It's pretty cool. All this discussion about alien lifeforms, however, makes my head hurt <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Hybridclaw+Mar 22 2004, 06:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hybridclaw @ Mar 22 2004, 06:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> hmmm..... if the hive is used to spawn in aliens after one has been lost in battle, that would mean that aliens didn't always have a hive since the hive was only made to spawn in replacements, which mean an indivuisual alien does not need a hive to survive. So why would aliens slowly die when all the hives are destroyed? <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> As I understand it, the Alien combat species don't exist at all before the hive comes into play. Up until that point it's simply bacteria that infests the ship; the hive, which subsequently begins spawning aliens, is created in response to a threat.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hives do more than contain this information, they act as the birthing zone for Skulks.<b> It is unlikely Skulks have always birthed this way</b> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> this means that aliens weren't always just bactrium before the hive <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Hybridclaw+Mar 23 2004, 06:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hybridclaw @ Mar 23 2004, 06:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hives do more than contain this information, they act as the birthing zone for Skulks.<b> It is unlikely Skulks have always birthed this way</b> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> this means that aliens weren't always just bactrium before the hive <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Look at it like the Zerg. The zerglings weren't always zerglings. They were a seperate race entirely. But they were absorbed by the zerg themselves, and transformed on a DNA-level to suit the Zerg's needs.
That's how I see skulkies. And lerks. And fades. And gorgies. And oni.
Ahh, now this is the kind of twist-ending that would make a great film... I wish I thought of this when I was writing the Infestation screenplay <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Mouse+Mar 23 2004, 01:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mouse @ Mar 23 2004, 01:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Give a man a wheelchair and he will use it, take a wheelchair from a man and he will fall over; however if the man has no concept of a wheelchair he will never need one.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Same concept here with the hives. The aliens can survive without a hive if they can't build one, but they if they have their hive taken away from them their health begins to suffer because they have become dependant on the hive's existence. Because of this a large number of the aliens that were captured with intent of being stored and studied in Biodome probably died before they got to the facility. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> the only reason they became depandent on the hive is because they at at war, they need the hive to spawn in reinforcements and give them upgrades. So the species may not survive without the hive, but an indivisual alien can. Other than that there is no other way they are depandent on the hive.
Well, since you brought Starcraft into, I will mention that in the manual there are some suggestions that the bacterium has a similiar effect on lifeforms as the Zerg do. (Ie: Assimilation.) For example, in the description of the fade, it says something along the lines of the creature possibly developing thumbs, but instead being willed by the Kharaa to evolve scythe-like claws.
Also, I also read some of Flayra's notes on the concept of NS that are on his website, and from the conceptual viewpoint it is most likely that the aliens are, most definitely, biological.
Nonetheless, it would make an interesting story twist for a movie.
<!--QuoteBegin-Delphi+Mar 23 2004, 08:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Delphi @ Mar 23 2004, 08:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Look at it like the Zerg. The zerglings weren't always zerglings. They were a seperate race entirely. But they were absorbed by the zerg themselves, and transformed on a DNA-level to suit the Zerg's needs.
That's how I see skulkies. And lerks. And fades. And gorgies. And oni.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> this is true for the fade since as TranquilChaos said <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->in the description of the fade, it says something along the lines of the creature possibly developing thumbs, but instead being willed by the Kharaa to evolve scythe-like claws. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> and in the old manuel <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->speculation is that the gun-like growths on Fade's shoulders are actually symbiotic organisms, that the Fades joined forces with long ago. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this means that the fade was some creature that bacterium took and turned into a soldier. Anouther peice of evidence, that shows that the fade was taken by the bactrium and <i>turned</i> in to the kharaa, is that it is a <b>differnt color</b> than the other aliens. (as for the other aliens.... they could just be mutated bacterium, i dunno can't think of anything right now... i need sleep......)
The only aliens that look remotely similar are the Skulk and lerk. The gorge doesn't look like anything else. Same with the fade and onos. So if this is true, wouldn't the bacterium try in some way, to assimilate a human?
If humans had mastered the "nano-machine" world, then wouldnt the next logical step be to master the biological world? To produce biological machines instead of metal ones? They sure could have come from nano tech, even used nano tech to create every aspect of the bacteria, from the intricate strands of DNA to the membrane oraganells.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-Fr05t+Mar 24 2004, 02:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fr05t @ Mar 24 2004, 02:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The only aliens that look remotely similar are the Skulk and lerk. The gorge doesn't look like anything else. Same with the fade and onos. So if this is true, wouldn't the bacterium try in some way, to assimilate a human? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah, that's right, however the multitudes of nanites in and around the marines effectively prevents the marines from being 'assimilated'
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-Hybridclaw+Mar 24 2004, 12:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hybridclaw @ Mar 24 2004, 12:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mouse+Mar 23 2004, 01:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mouse @ Mar 23 2004, 01:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Give a man a wheelchair and he will use it, take a wheelchair from a man and he will fall over; however if the man has no concept of a wheelchair he will never need one.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Same concept here with the hives. The aliens can survive without a hive if they can't build one, but they if they have their hive taken away from them their health begins to suffer because they have become dependant on the hive's existence. Because of this a large number of the aliens that were captured with intent of being stored and studied in Biodome probably died before they got to the facility. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> the only reason they became depandent on the hive is because they at at war, they need the hive to spawn in reinforcements and give them upgrades. So the species may not survive without the hive, but an indivisual alien can. Other than that there is no other way they are depandent on the hive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I disagree, even on their homeworld a hive would still provide the aliens with healling and somewhere to respawn if they died somehow. On that note, assuming a hive also creates new aliens as well as respawning old ones; the aliens would multiply at an exponential rate, which could explain how they have expanded throughout the Adriane Arm.
Ehhhh about NS_Origin, the map has a backstory, you can read it in the fan fiction forums. IIRC, origin is the index infestation, the first ship which encountered the kharaa. The TSA went in, sterilised it and then converted it into a research lab, however, things went fubar with their experiments and again the TSA have to clear it out.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Backstory: Although the origin of the Kharaa is shrouded in mystery, one of the very first human colonies to succumb to the alien scourge was a mining facility on a moon known as Freya IV. Perhaps the miners dug a little too deep, and released the Kharaa from their ancient sleep; none shall ever know, for those unlucky miners never lived to tell their tales. This lonely outpost became enshrined in TSA literature as "Colony Zero", the epidemiological epi-centre of the alien plague which soon ensued, as a result of bacterial contagion caused by the rash evacuation of the miners without due quarantine controls.
Within weeks, six other planets and moons in the same quadrant as Freya IV became contaminated by the Kharaa; facing the serious possibility of uncontrollable bacterial spread, the TSA unwillingly placed a cordon sanitaire around the affected planets. No-one in, no-one out. The inhabitants of these accursed colonies were condemned to infested tombs.
One year on, unmanned probes, sent in by the TSA to monitor the situation, found something extremely strange - with the human "threat" vanquished, the Kharaa had apparently disappeared - no trace of them, other than organic infestation remains, could be found. Tentatively sending in a human scouting party, the TSA soon realised that the Kharaa were not gone, merely dormant; in the presence of humans, the Kharaa once again awoke. Reporting "chuckling creatures, skulking in the shadows", the scouting party beat a hasty retreat.
For the next 50 years, Freya IV was a strict no-go area. in the intervening time, however, the TSA had not been idle. Having identified the Bacterium as the basis for the Kharaa life-form, the TSA developed a bio-chemical weapon to combat it, dubbed "Nano-Penicillin". This weapon worked on the principle of destroying the Bacterium, and hence the Kharaa. In a symbolic act, Freya IV was chosen as the first infestation site to be cleansed with Nano-Penicillin, blanket-dropped upon the site by aerial probes. The mission was a success - the TSA's monitoring equipment could detect no signs of Bacterium.
As part of the TSA's ongoing Kharaa research, Freya IV became manned once more, as part of efforts to unravel the secrets of the Kharaa by investigating the source. A new science annex was constructed to study the Kharaa and Bacterium under laboratory conditions, safe in the knowledge that Nano-Penicillin could always be used in emergency situations.
Things did not go according to plan, however...
A hive, specially cultivated in the biodome, began giving birth to immense numbers of the gargantuan Onos Kharaa, whose angry roars echoed about the entire station. En masse, they began charging at the containment doors, denting it, buckling it, straining it to its limits. Panicking, the scientists manning the biodome released Nano-Penicillin into the biodome...to no effect. The Bacterium had evolved once more, and had become resistant. At last, the containment doors gave way, and the corridors of the complex on Freya IV seethed with angry Kharaa...
Once more, Freya IV was over-run. The TSA vowed never again to be so foolhardy and reckless as to believe they could confine and contain the Kharaa on human terms. Nevertheless, the scientists on Freya IV made unprecedented headway in Kharaa research, but this research stood to be lost if it could not be retrieved from Freya IV. One last foray was needed - one last journey to the origin of species, this time with a clear objective: search and destroy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Never having read the ns_origin backstory, I have to say I like it, but I've got one small problem with it.... Where did the hive magically get all this res to produce multitudes of oni? Were the scientist being utterly foolish and feeding it massive amounts of "energy" (whether physical or otherwise)? Or is this simply something we're not supposed to think about? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Jodo_Kast+Mar 25 2004, 06:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jodo_Kast @ Mar 25 2004, 06:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Were the scientist being utterly foolish and feeding it massive amounts of "energy" (whether physical or otherwise)?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> scientists probably constructed the biodome with the hopes that they could observe and how the aliens use their resources. Thats why there is a res node in biodome. They had no idea the the aliens could make a hive, gestate to onos and build up immunity to "nano-penicillin".
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Things did not go according to plan, however...
A hive, specially cultivated in the biodome, began giving birth to immense numbers of the gargantuan Onos Kharaa, whose angry roars echoed about the entire station. En masse, they began charging at the containment doors, denting it, buckling it, straining it to its limits. Panicking, the scientists manning the biodome released Nano-Penicillin into the biodome...to no effect. The Bacterium had evolved once more, and had become resistant. At last, the containment doors gave way, and the corridors of the complex on Freya IV seethed with angry Kharaa... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Where did the hive magically get all this res to produce multitudes of oni? Were the scientist being utterly foolish and feeding it massive amounts of "energy" (whether physical or otherwise)?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From what I can gather from the manual (any my own theory), the nano-sludge that aliens supposedly use for contruction is nothing more than a source of energy to them. The nanomachines contained in the "sludge" (possibly a means of easily delivering a high concentration of nanomachines to any and all regions of the area) are said to draw energy from their environment; I believe that Resource Chambers have the ability to draw the energy that the nanomachines have themselves drawn from the environment and harvest it. The energy, contained within the bacterium that construct the Resource Chambers, is transmitted through the bacterial mat that is ever-present as long as the Kharra's presence is active, and the bacterium that contain the newly harvested energy is delivered to any existing evolutions of Kharra (the Hive Mind would have priority over the flow of resouces, as they must spawn Skulks when the loss of any evolutions is experienced). These "energy charged" bacteria are themselves resources; they allow for the contsruction of chambers (the "resources" act as templates, complete with blueprints of their future designation, and other bacteria are directly added to the construction to allow for the process to be sped up) and for the evoltuion of new species (the energy in the bacteria allow for the existing bacteria that create the basis of the lifeform in question to rapidly reproduce and take on new designations).
I'm guessing to aid in their research, the scientists wanted to speed up the growth of the hive, and thus gave it enough "resources" for the bacterium that create it to rapidly reproduce and thus grow in a shorter amount of time (it's possible that they simply used light and water as sources of energy for their sample, seeing as there are "alien" plants present as well as windows in the cieling; perhaps the bacterium can produce its energy by photosynthetis as well as other forms of respiration?). Perhaps they had no idea that the Hive Mind they inadvertingly aided into existance could utilize the resouces...and in response to human presence the Hive Mind placed priority on producing advanced lifeforms to eliminate what it believed to be a threat. Although, the production of several Oni in a short period of time is still somewhat preposterous.
<!--QuoteBegin-Mouse+Mar 24 2004, 12:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mouse @ Mar 24 2004, 12:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Fr05t+Mar 24 2004, 02:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fr05t @ Mar 24 2004, 02:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The only aliens that look remotely similar are the Skulk and lerk. The gorge doesn't look like anything else. Same with the fade and onos. So if this is true, wouldn't the bacterium try in some way, to assimilate a human? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah, that's right, however the multitudes of nanites in and around the marines effectively prevents the marines from being 'assimilated' <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But if the Kharaa eliminate the human pressence, and the hive minds want to assimilate a human, wouldn't they just leave one alive, drag it back to the hive, pop off all it's armor and start the process of destroying their nanos and absorbing them?
Imagine though, human Kharaa that work as spies. They can communicate with both teams, but have to pick up a dead marine's weapons? That would be an interesting addition to game play.
Infested Human: "Commander, need a PG here." "Sure thing soldier. Everyone, get ready to phase." "It's done." "Phase through." Marine: "What the hell! It's an ambush sir! AAAHHHH...." "What in the hell!"
<!--QuoteBegin-Al_Kaholic+Mar 25 2004, 04:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Al_Kaholic @ Mar 25 2004, 04:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Although, the production of several Oni in a short period of time is still somewhat preposterous. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually the story never said how long the aliens were being observed before the oni appered. Although it said <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> began giving birth to immense numbers of the gargantuan Onos Kharaa <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It could have happened over the period of a few weeks or months. That should be more than enough time to prepare several oni. The scientists must not have thought that the oni could get through the doors. or there could have been sensory chambers, since a lot was still not much known about the kharaa they might not have known about sensory chambers yet. It was also somewhat safe, for the aliens, since the only weapon the scientists had was "nano-penicillin" and the aliens have already built up immunity to it.
Or.... (theory 2)
since the hive can only spawn skulks. anouther hive could have been constructed, somewhere else on the planet, and the oni came over with movement chambers.
I'd think something might have been mentioned if the Oni had been appearing over a longer period of time. It says: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A hive, specially cultivated in the biodome, began giving birth to immense numbers of the gargantuan Onos Kharaa, whose angry roars echoed about the entire station. En masse, they began charging at the containment doors, denting it, buckling it, straining it to its limits.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This suggests that the Oni had appeared more rapidly than what you suggest. I doubt they would wait (or be allowed to wait uninterrupted) to charge the containment doors; and if something had been attempted at their first appearance (if what you say is true), I'd think something would be mentioned.
<!--QuoteBegin-Fr05t+Mar 25 2004, 06:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fr05t @ Mar 25 2004, 06:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But if the Kharaa eliminate the human pressence, and the hive minds want to assimilate a human, wouldn't they just leave one alive, drag it back to the hive, pop off all it's armor and start the process of destroying their nanos and absorbing them? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The fade is a creature that could have developed aposible thumbs and walks on it's hind legs. It could have eventually develop very similar to humans, if it wasn't turned into a kharaa. I think that the hive mind does not need to assimilate humans because it already has something similar to us.
Comments
As for a reason, maybe with no hives fighting back the marines are able to assume near complete control of the nanogrid and begin to "flush" it out of the baterium/kharaa thus hurting the kharaa? That explains why defs still work as they can keep the flushing nanites effectively over a much smaller area.
As for the suggestion, I like it. Sooner or later, I am going to write "The Biology of the Kharaa" and this idea would help greatly.
hmmm.....
if the hive is used to spawn in aliens after one has been lost in battle, that would mean that aliens didn't always have a hive since the hive was only made to spawn in replacements, which mean an indivuisual alien does not need a hive to survive.
So why would aliens slowly die when all the hives are destroyed? <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Give a man a wheelchair and he will use it, take a wheelchair from a man and he will fall over; however if the man has no concept of a wheelchair he will never need one.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same concept here with the hives. The aliens can survive without a hive if they can't build one, but they if they have their hive taken away from them their health begins to suffer because they have become dependant on the hive's existence. Because of this a large number of the aliens that were captured with intent of being stored and studied in Biodome probably died before they got to the facility.
Re: Alien resource towers.
Alien nodes work like giant lungs, they suck the nanites into their large sack, but instead of pumping the nanites about in their rawr form, the resource towers crush the invidual nanites and the heat (from the friction caused by the nanites' destruction) is then released into the bacterial network.
Where did you read this? Not only does that not really make any sense to me, but I specifically recall reading something in the fluff about the res towers "digesting" the nanosludge.
Right, that makes sense. I s'pose if I'm working under the assumption that we made the Kharaa somehow, origin is as good a place as any to start. I just like the idea of it being a malfunction rather than a planned thing, I guess.
As for the resource towers Bistromath, refer to my post above yours
Keyword. If information about maps included with the game aren't canon, (though it's arguable whether that name means anything) then fanfic shouldn't be, either.
As for the RTs, you're talking about the thing where it transmits the heat, right? I don't remember anything like that in the old-school memory, but it seems reasonable, and my memory is crap, so fair enough. I would ask though, what <i>does</i> the Kharaa organism feed on, if this is true? Does it just live off the heat? That is possible, I'll grant, but the idea that it could become so complex with an energy source like that seems rather far-fetched, both because of the lack of chemical intake, and because of the fact that, with an energy source as abundant and easy to process as heat, there would be no <i>need</i> to evolve beyond the simple microbial/fungal/plant stages. So such a thing is possible, but very highly unlikely.
To back this up I'll draw reference to a section of the mapping guidelines, <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/Mapping_Guidelines.html#Depict_Alien_Infestation' target='_blank'>Style Guide - Atmosphere - Depict Alien Infestation</a>. The first bullet point clearly mentions the aliens having come from a homeworld.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for the RTs, you're talking about the thing where it transmits the heat, right? I don't remember anything like that in the old-school memory, but it seems reasonable, and my memory is crap, so fair enough. I would ask though, what does the Kharaa organism feed on, if this is true? Does it just live off the heat?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not exactly, it's the airborne bacteria which lives of the heat; the aliens themselves are sustained by and recieve resources from the airborne bacteria, similar to how a fish harvests oxygen from water. All the heat from the resource towers does is encourage bacterial growth (ie. the visible infestation).
[EDIT] I just located some official info to back this up. <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/manual/alien_healing.html' target='_blank'>Alien healling</a>
I like the original idea (man accidentally creates evil through the desire to become more powerful). It's pretty cool. All this discussion about alien lifeforms, however, makes my head hurt <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
if the hive is used to spawn in aliens after one has been lost in battle, that would mean that aliens didn't always have a hive since the hive was only made to spawn in replacements, which mean an indivuisual alien does not need a hive to survive.
So why would aliens slowly die when all the hives are destroyed? <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I understand it, the Alien combat species don't exist at all before the hive comes into play. Up until that point it's simply bacteria that infests the ship; the hive, which subsequently begins spawning aliens, is created in response to a threat.
this means that aliens weren't always just bactrium before the hive <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
this means that aliens weren't always just bactrium before the hive <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look at it like the Zerg. The zerglings weren't always zerglings. They were a seperate race entirely. But they were absorbed by the zerg themselves, and transformed on a DNA-level to suit the Zerg's needs.
That's how I see skulkies. And lerks. And fades. And gorgies. And oni.
Same concept here with the hives. The aliens can survive without a hive if they can't build one, but they if they have their hive taken away from them their health begins to suffer because they have become dependant on the hive's existence. Because of this a large number of the aliens that were captured with intent of being stored and studied in Biodome probably died before they got to the facility. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
the only reason they became depandent on the hive is because they at at war, they need the hive to spawn in reinforcements and give them upgrades. So the species may not survive without the hive, but an indivisual alien can. Other than that there is no other way they are depandent on the hive.
Also, I also read some of Flayra's notes on the concept of NS that are on his website, and from the conceptual viewpoint it is most likely that the aliens are, most definitely, biological.
Nonetheless, it would make an interesting story twist for a movie.
That's how I see skulkies. And lerks. And fades. And gorgies. And oni.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is true for the fade since
as TranquilChaos said
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->in the description of the fade, it says something along the lines of the creature possibly developing thumbs, but instead being willed by the Kharaa to evolve scythe-like claws.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and in the old manuel
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->speculation is that the gun-like growths on Fade's shoulders are actually symbiotic organisms, that the Fades joined forces with long ago. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this means that the fade was some creature that bacterium took and turned into a soldier. Anouther peice of evidence, that shows that the fade was taken by the bactrium and <i>turned</i> in to the kharaa, is that it is a <b>differnt color</b> than the other aliens.
(as for the other aliens.... they could just be mutated bacterium, i dunno can't think of anything right now... i need sleep......)
yeah, that's right, however the multitudes of nanites in and around the marines effectively prevents the marines from being 'assimilated'
Same concept here with the hives. The aliens can survive without a hive if they can't build one, but they if they have their hive taken away from them their health begins to suffer because they have become dependant on the hive's existence. Because of this a large number of the aliens that were captured with intent of being stored and studied in Biodome probably died before they got to the facility. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the only reason they became depandent on the hive is because they at at war, they need the hive to spawn in reinforcements and give them upgrades. So the species may not survive without the hive, but an indivisual alien can. Other than that there is no other way they are depandent on the hive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree, even on their homeworld a hive would still provide the aliens with healling and somewhere to respawn if they died somehow. On that note, assuming a hive also creates new aliens as well as respawning old ones; the aliens would multiply at an exponential rate, which could explain how they have expanded throughout the Adriane Arm.
Within weeks, six other planets and moons in the same quadrant as Freya IV became contaminated by the Kharaa; facing the serious possibility of uncontrollable bacterial spread, the TSA unwillingly placed a cordon sanitaire around the affected planets. No-one in, no-one out. The inhabitants of these accursed colonies were condemned to infested tombs.
One year on, unmanned probes, sent in by the TSA to monitor the situation, found something extremely strange - with the human "threat" vanquished, the Kharaa had apparently disappeared - no trace of them, other than organic infestation remains, could be found. Tentatively sending in a human scouting party, the TSA soon realised that the Kharaa were not gone, merely dormant; in the presence of humans, the Kharaa once again awoke. Reporting "chuckling creatures, skulking in the shadows", the scouting party beat a hasty retreat.
For the next 50 years, Freya IV was a strict no-go area. in the intervening time, however, the TSA had not been idle. Having identified the Bacterium as the basis for the Kharaa life-form, the TSA developed a bio-chemical weapon to combat it, dubbed "Nano-Penicillin". This weapon worked on the principle of destroying the Bacterium, and hence the Kharaa. In a symbolic act, Freya IV was chosen as the first infestation site to be cleansed with Nano-Penicillin, blanket-dropped upon the site by aerial probes. The mission was a success - the TSA's monitoring equipment could detect no signs of Bacterium.
As part of the TSA's ongoing Kharaa research, Freya IV became manned once more, as part of efforts to unravel the secrets of the Kharaa by investigating the source. A new science annex was constructed to study the Kharaa and Bacterium under laboratory conditions, safe in the knowledge that Nano-Penicillin could always be used in emergency situations.
Things did not go according to plan, however...
A hive, specially cultivated in the biodome, began giving birth to immense numbers of the gargantuan Onos Kharaa, whose angry roars echoed about the entire station. En masse, they began charging at the containment doors, denting it, buckling it, straining it to its limits. Panicking, the scientists manning the biodome released Nano-Penicillin into the biodome...to no effect. The Bacterium had evolved once more, and had become resistant. At last, the containment doors gave way, and the corridors of the complex on Freya IV seethed with angry Kharaa...
Once more, Freya IV was over-run. The TSA vowed never again to be so foolhardy and reckless as to believe they could confine and contain the Kharaa on human terms. Nevertheless, the scientists on Freya IV made unprecedented headway in Kharaa research, but this research stood to be lost if it could not be retrieved from Freya IV. One last foray was needed - one last journey to the origin of species, this time with a clear objective: search and destroy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Close Zerobyte
scientists probably constructed the biodome with the hopes that they could observe and how the aliens use their resources. Thats why there is a res node in biodome. They had no idea the the aliens could make a hive, gestate to onos and build up immunity to "nano-penicillin".
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Things did not go according to plan, however...
A hive, specially cultivated in the biodome, began giving birth to immense numbers of the gargantuan Onos Kharaa, whose angry roars echoed about the entire station. En masse, they began charging at the containment doors, denting it, buckling it, straining it to its limits. Panicking, the scientists manning the biodome released Nano-Penicillin into the biodome...to no effect. The Bacterium had evolved once more, and had become resistant. At last, the containment doors gave way, and the corridors of the complex on Freya IV seethed with angry Kharaa...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From what I can gather from the manual (any my own theory), the nano-sludge that aliens supposedly use for contruction is nothing more than a source of energy to them. The nanomachines contained in the "sludge" (possibly a means of easily delivering a high concentration of nanomachines to any and all regions of the area) are said to draw energy from their environment; I believe that Resource Chambers have the ability to draw the energy that the nanomachines have themselves drawn from the environment and harvest it. The energy, contained within the bacterium that construct the Resource Chambers, is transmitted through the bacterial mat that is ever-present as long as the Kharra's presence is active, and the bacterium that contain the newly harvested energy is delivered to any existing evolutions of Kharra (the Hive Mind would have priority over the flow of resouces, as they must spawn Skulks when the loss of any evolutions is experienced). These "energy charged" bacteria are themselves resources; they allow for the contsruction of chambers (the "resources" act as templates, complete with blueprints of their future designation, and other bacteria are directly added to the construction to allow for the process to be sped up) and for the evoltuion of new species (the energy in the bacteria allow for the existing bacteria that create the basis of the lifeform in question to rapidly reproduce and take on new designations).
I'm guessing to aid in their research, the scientists wanted to speed up the growth of the hive, and thus gave it enough "resources" for the bacterium that create it to rapidly reproduce and thus grow in a shorter amount of time (it's possible that they simply used light and water as sources of energy for their sample, seeing as there are "alien" plants present as well as windows in the cieling; perhaps the bacterium can produce its energy by photosynthetis as well as other forms of respiration?). Perhaps they had no idea that the Hive Mind they inadvertingly aided into existance could utilize the resouces...and in response to human presence the Hive Mind placed priority on producing advanced lifeforms to eliminate what it believed to be a threat. Although, the production of several Oni in a short period of time is still somewhat preposterous.
yeah, that's right, however the multitudes of nanites in and around the marines effectively prevents the marines from being 'assimilated' <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
But if the Kharaa eliminate the human pressence, and the hive minds want to assimilate a human, wouldn't they just leave one alive, drag it back to the hive, pop off all it's armor and start the process of destroying their nanos and absorbing them?
Imagine though, human Kharaa that work as spies. They can communicate with both teams, but have to pick up a dead marine's weapons? That would be an interesting addition to game play.
Infested Human: "Commander, need a PG here."
"Sure thing soldier. Everyone, get ready to phase."
"It's done."
"Phase through."
Marine: "What the hell! It's an ambush sir! AAAHHHH...."
"What in the hell!"
Actually the story never said how long the aliens were being observed before the oni appered. Although it said
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
began giving birth to immense numbers of the gargantuan Onos Kharaa
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It could have happened over the period of a few weeks or months. That should be more than enough time to prepare several oni. The scientists must not have thought that the oni could get through the doors. or there could have been sensory chambers, since a lot was still not much known about the kharaa they might not have known about sensory chambers yet. It was also somewhat safe, for the aliens, since the only weapon the scientists had was "nano-penicillin" and the aliens have already built up immunity to it.
Or.... (theory 2)
since the hive can only spawn skulks. anouther hive could have been constructed, somewhere else on the planet, and the oni came over with movement chambers.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A hive, specially cultivated in the biodome, began giving birth to immense numbers of the gargantuan Onos Kharaa, whose angry roars echoed about the entire station. En masse, they began charging at the containment doors, denting it, buckling it, straining it to its limits.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This suggests that the Oni had appeared more rapidly than what you suggest. I doubt they would wait (or be allowed to wait uninterrupted) to charge the containment doors; and if something had been attempted at their first appearance (if what you say is true), I'd think something would be mentioned.
The fade is a creature that could have developed aposible thumbs and walks on it's hind legs. It could have eventually develop very similar to humans, if it wasn't turned into a kharaa. I think that the hive mind does not need to assimilate humans because it already has something similar to us.