I checked out the Hostile Intent detail textures in photoshop. I think some of them are edited photos, which is probably why they look so incredibly awesome and realistic.
The mapper doesnt want them used for any other map so I guess I'll get my camera, and take some high res screenies of nice shiny metal textures.
Hmm, Flayra left for his two week vacation nearly four weeks ago, if he's still gone I hope he's having a good time <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Out of curiosity, what other mods have detail texture packs available? Surely the NS community can't be the only one working on this. Any links to other packs would be great.
I must admit that I really don't like what Mendasp has done. Whereas Hostile Intent's method result is to create the illusion of much higher res textures, Mendasp's screenshot shows that his textures just look like they have higher contrast. I submit that Mendasp did something different from how Hostile Intent did.
Looks good mendasp, but if you would use a higher-res image for the detail-texture, it could look even better. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Actually, no. If you read the detailed texture text file that is included with Hostile Intent (That one map at least), the detailed textures are repeated several times per regular texture. They're also not the original textures, they appear to be high detail photographs and textures.
I would just like to add that the Hostile Intent screenshots aren't edited or anything (a guy that have a better card than me - Pharcae is his intarweb name - checked it out, and I have a whole bunch of screens that he sent me: it's true, it looks godly good). I guess most of you have already seen what Hostile Killer did with his map hi_alandalus, but here it comes again (140 kB):
I think for ns we'll most likely be seeing detail textures created in the following way:
1)extract regular texture from the wad. 2)turn it into a black and white image. 3)adjust the levels to reduce/increase contrast as necessary 4)minor scratching/etc to add some character to the textures
Also I see the "detail textures to eliminate the need for an overlay" as a big plus for NS.
Another cool feature i'd like to see implemented: an array for infodecal from which a random entry is selected on map loading. It might be of marginal use but it would be kind of a cool touch for scratches and etc to change each time you load the map.
<!--QuoteBegin-Reese+Mar 9 2004, 04:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Reese @ Mar 9 2004, 04:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1)extract regular texture from the wad. 2)turn it into a black and white image. 3)adjust the levels to reduce/increase contrast as necessary 4)minor scratching/etc to add some character to the textures <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 1) Or you could take a picture of it (Print Screen) in the texture selection screen in Hammer <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> 2) Out of all the times ive tried from TFC (canyonssand3), it makes the colors .. icky. 3) Guess I might try that 4) Add broken shards of glass/metal shavings to grass <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
There is no point in taking the original texture and using it as a 1:1 detailed texture; all that does is increase texture contrast, and you can do that WITHOUT detailed textures.
Here's an interesting idea: Why not treat the detailed texture as a luminosity channel?
Think about it; Half-Life limits us to 8-bit textures... but now we've got a method to affect the darkness of a texture on a per-pixel level. For example, say your original 24-bit texture has 16 different shades of red, but when it's turned into an 8-bit indexed texture, there's only enough room in the palette for 1 shade of red... Using a detailed texture, that shade of red can be changed to any of 256 different shades of red!
This means that we can store 16-bits of colour data for any texture, even though Half-Life only supports 8-bit textures!
Also, an idea I'm not considering because it becomes too complex, is that detailed textures support colour, just nobody uses them. Apparently you could make a RED scratch as opposed to just a scratch. This further increases the posibilities for increasing the perceived texture colour level.
Somebody should write up a program that takes a 24-bit texture and turns it into an 8-bit texture and a detail texture. Or at the very least, an easier program to code, take and 8-bit texture, and the original high-colour version of that texture, and calculate the detail texture required to make the in-game texture appear closer to the 24-bit original.
Norn, I like that third one. There's a flooring in hera that looks pretty bad right now and i think that it would work well on that.
I agree with the no 1:1 because it really doesn't accomplish much. You can increase the resolution slightly but in the end it doesn't look all that great, whereas a small detailed texture that's repeated can look really good.
Just a bump to ask Soylent if he needs any help for that texturing task <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If anyone wants to make textures, I recommend that they do what they can and just attach the TGA file to a post here. That way, mappers or Soylent alike can just find what they need and use it for what they can.
Well, how about making a "detail texture pack"? Something that can be used by all the mappers (and NS gamers) so that there's somewhat of a standard detail texture set until we get an official answer on them?
<a href='http://www.mayang.com/textures/' target='_blank'>Here</a>'s an excellent photo-texture site that might help in creating detail textures... Seems to be running a little slow today for some reason, but they have a lot of stuff there that would make for some good overlays.
I work a little now and then when I have time. For the best experience I think it would be a good idea if mappers made detail textures for their own maps in time for final ns 3.0 release.
wow Mendasp, nice work good to see you working on this dudes, it's something great for HL mapping can't wait to see all the official NS maps with this technology <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Soylent green+Mar 12 2004, 03:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent green @ Mar 12 2004, 03:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I work a little now and then when I have time. For the best experience I think it would be a good idea if mappers made detail textures for their own maps in time for final ns 3.0 release. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Than maybe you could write a tutorial on how to do this. You rock by the way, really looks sweet ingame.
Comments
The mapper doesnt want them used for any other map so I guess I'll get my camera, and take some high res screenies of nice shiny metal textures.
Using the same method as Hostile Intent.
I must admit that I really don't like what Mendasp has done. Whereas Hostile Intent's method result is to create the illusion of much higher res textures, Mendasp's screenshot shows that his textures just look like they have higher contrast. I submit that Mendasp did something different from how Hostile Intent did.
I tried the same with two NS textures... I guess it's simply not the same kind of textures, and that's why it doesn't look as good as it is on HI.
And about HI:
hkitfloor2 detail/hkitfloor2 1.0 1.0
hko_floor8 detail/hkfloor3 1.0 1.0
hk_it_wall009 detail/hk_it_wall009 1.0 1.0
hroof3 detail/hkrooftrim 1.0 1.0
cdetail001256 detail/hkdetail 1.0 1.0
hkitpillar detail/hkpillar 1.0 1.0
I'm talking about those detailtextures. They use a copy of the original texture in b/w.
Taken with my kodak Digital Camera, uploaded to Photoshop and edited.
These were just rush jobs, but if you like them I'll make some more.
edit: I'll tell you what they were.
1) grass!
2) A brick (with the lines cloned in photoshop)
3) A paving stone
4) the pavement outside the house
<img src='http://www.halflife.nu/images/hlnu_nyheter/HI/andalus_det_1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
1)extract regular texture from the wad.
2)turn it into a black and white image.
3)adjust the levels to reduce/increase contrast as necessary
4)minor scratching/etc to add some character to the textures
Also I see the "detail textures to eliminate the need for an overlay" as a big plus for NS.
Another cool feature i'd like to see implemented: an array for infodecal from which a random entry is selected on map loading. It might be of marginal use but it would be kind of a cool touch for scratches and etc to change each time you load the map.
2)turn it into a black and white image.
3)adjust the levels to reduce/increase contrast as necessary
4)minor scratching/etc to add some character to the textures <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) Or you could take a picture of it (Print Screen) in the texture selection screen in Hammer <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
2) Out of all the times ive tried from TFC (canyonssand3), it makes the colors .. icky.
3) Guess I might try that
4) Add broken shards of glass/metal shavings to grass <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Here's an interesting idea: Why not treat the detailed texture as a luminosity channel?
Think about it; Half-Life limits us to 8-bit textures... but now we've got a method to affect the darkness of a texture on a per-pixel level. For example, say your original 24-bit texture has 16 different shades of red, but when it's turned into an 8-bit indexed texture, there's only enough room in the palette for 1 shade of red... Using a detailed texture, that shade of red can be changed to any of 256 different shades of red!
This means that we can store 16-bits of colour data for any texture, even though Half-Life only supports 8-bit textures!
Also, an idea I'm not considering because it becomes too complex, is that detailed textures support colour, just nobody uses them. Apparently you could make a RED scratch as opposed to just a scratch. This further increases the posibilities for increasing the perceived texture colour level.
Somebody should write up a program that takes a 24-bit texture and turns it into an 8-bit texture and a detail texture. Or at the very least, an easier program to code, take and 8-bit texture, and the original high-colour version of that texture, and calculate the detail texture required to make the in-game texture appear closer to the 24-bit original.
I agree with the no 1:1 because it really doesn't accomplish much. You can increase the resolution slightly but in the end it doesn't look all that great, whereas a small detailed texture that's repeated can look really good.
good to see you working on this dudes, it's something great for HL mapping
can't wait to see all the official NS maps with this technology <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Than maybe you could write a tutorial on how to do this. You rock by the way, really looks sweet ingame.