<!--QuoteBegin-MMZ>Torak+Feb 25 2004, 01:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Feb 25 2004, 01:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Raw Evil+Feb 25 2004, 06:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Raw Evil @ Feb 25 2004, 06:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Savant+Feb 25 2004, 02:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Savant @ Feb 25 2004, 02:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't consider jetpackers to be 'jumping', I consider them to be flying.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I hope you know that the HL engine considers people 'jumping' to be the same as 'flying' - the player is governed by the same physics either way. There's no way to detect it unless there was a variable somewhere that remembered the last time you executed a +jump. It simply isn't possible without a lot of extra code. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The game already differentiates between jumping and flying, otherwise there would be no need for jetpacks. If you have a jetpack, you can fire while "in the air" if not, you cannot.
I do not think this is a necessary nerf. Removing knockback would solve the problem much better. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not true, you can quite happily jump and fire at the same time.
<!--QuoteBegin-RSMemphis+Feb 25 2004, 01:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RSMemphis @ Feb 25 2004, 01:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-MMZ>Torak+Feb 25 2004, 01:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Feb 25 2004, 01:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Raw Evil+Feb 25 2004, 06:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Raw Evil @ Feb 25 2004, 06:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Savant+Feb 25 2004, 02:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Savant @ Feb 25 2004, 02:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't consider jetpackers to be 'jumping', I consider them to be flying.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I hope you know that the HL engine considers people 'jumping' to be the same as 'flying' - the player is governed by the same physics either way. There's no way to detect it unless there was a variable somewhere that remembered the last time you executed a +jump. It simply isn't possible without a lot of extra code. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The game already differentiates between jumping and flying, otherwise there would be no need for jetpacks. If you have a jetpack, you can fire while "in the air" if not, you cannot.
I do not think this is a necessary nerf. Removing knockback would solve the problem much better. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not true, you can quite happily jump and fire at the same time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You missed the point.
You know how Flayra makes some balance sacrifices because the alternative is more fun? Jumping is fun. And guess what, it's not that imbalanced. Aliens with a bit of skill or knowledge can kill a jumping marine. Also, believe it or not, it's harder to shoot a skulk when you're jumping all over the place. Adding in an accuracy penalty would just be overkill.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sarisel+Feb 26 2004, 06:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sarisel @ Feb 26 2004, 06:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why not just replace marines with Alies/Axis from DoD? Bring back the turtle while we're at it? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why dont we just have random moron posters throw in useless, sarcastic solutions in a serious thread....
Oh wait, sas has that one covered already.
Torak, think of how quickly marines die in two consecutive chomps. At start game when you manage to get in two rapid consecutive chomps (ie just hold down the mouse button for as long as it takes to bite twice) on a marine most of them will type "omg pwned" or something similar, because you have absolutely no chance and the whole battle takes less than a second.
I think that removing knockback is going to be a huge balance change, and marines are going to need something pretty special to counter it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Marine01+Feb 26 2004, 02:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marine01 @ Feb 26 2004, 02:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Torak, think of how quickly marines die in two consecutive chomps. At start game when you manage to get in two rapid consecutive chomps (ie just hold down the mouse button for as long as it takes to bite twice) on a marine most of them will type "omg pwned" or something similar, because you have absolutely no chance and the whole battle takes less than a second.
I think that removing knockback is going to be a huge balance change, and marines are going to need something pretty special to counter it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> We already have a knockback thread so I will make this short. Marines have a ranged advantage, aliens are supposed to have the melee advantage. Knockback lessens the aliens melee advantage, through no fault of the alien. Marines can counter act the loss of knockback by making sure they move in groups of at least two or more, so as to not allow the skulk to get into melee range. This is a beta, I say lets try it.
I don't mind knockback in general. It just gets a bit annoying when it throws my target across the whole room while it still empties its hmg at me with deadly accuracy. But this crackweaseljumping annoys me like hell. It simply kills the atmosphere. Marines should survive by means of teamwork, coverfire and coution. not superhuman athletic skills. I would rather increase armour or weapon damadge for balance and eliminate repetetive jumping, either with a stamina bar or (my favorite) by preventing the rine from firering the weapon while jumping.
Lets face it. It is a flaw in the game mechanics. It was possibly a cheap way to bypass the common "how do I reach that vent" problem common in older FPS engines. It was a simple solution to replace a climbing ability. Noting more.
To declare it as nessesary part of the game, and as important skill is IMO just a way to justify the exploitation of this flaw (for players) and to avoid probably a large amout of planning, programming and testing for the developers.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Something needs to be done more than already has been about bouncy marines. Especially with a fade, hitting a marine who is rapidly tapping his jump key can be an exercise in tedium. I do realize that bhopping has been removed. I just feel that Marine jumping should be for getting over obstacles and nothing more.
Just imagine sitting in training for the military and having you instructor say "And if your enemy ever tries to melee attack you, just jump around like hell and you'll be fine."
Jumping should just not be a valid defensive tactic. I'd say something as drastic as instituting CS jumping may be necessary. Discuss.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Marine01+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marine01)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why dont we just have random moron posters throw in useless, sarcastic solutions in a serious thread....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're an idiot if you consider this as a serious thread.
What are you basically doing if you're going to restrict marine jumping? a) You're taking out a major part of the excitement of playing as a marine - that rush you experience when you can jump over that skulk or sideways from that fade, see them look around frantically before realizing what had happened, or the satisfaction as an alien keeping up with the marine who is jumping around in panic, then killing them with a deep chortle? b) Turning NS into a different type of game, something along the lines of *gasp* DoD? or CS? or Medal of Honour? All you do mostly is point and shoot. Even then, at least you have some ability to make dives or side-jumps in knife/bayonet battles. Why do you want to turn a dynamic game like NS into a mind-numbing variation of these other games I listed?
There's a reason I quit DoD. It was too dull, too mind-numbing to keep playing a game with the realistic element of fatigue that greatly restricted vertical mobility, with the obvious conclusion to all battles - you pointed and shot, he (they) pointed and shot. Whoever's bullet hit first won. Now, translate that kind of gameplay into NS.
"Marine walks into a room, skulk jumps down, marine shoots but cannot put enough bullets in before the skulk chomps him to pieces."
"Group of marines walk into a room, shoot aliens as they huff and puff, running left and right - some live and some don't."
"Fade blinks in, gets close up to a marine, hits him three times and kills the marine."
The fun of hand-to-hand close quarter combat would be gone. The unpredictibility of close quarter combat would be gone. Figure out the consequences of this for pubs and scrims, and add to that the element of boredom which you plan to produce. Then tell me how 'serious' this topic is.
<!--QuoteBegin-BlueNovember+Feb 24 2004, 07:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BlueNovember @ Feb 24 2004, 07:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> OT: On the subject of meeting a skulk that "has not heard of looking up" I remember playing a quake LAN where mouse look was off, and you could only aim with cursors and A-Z (move up-move down.)
My team totally owned the other team by permanently crouching; we could not be shot. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> was awesome, if a little tedious for the other team. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> that's impossible. you can't crouch in quake D:
Leave knockback, but I would like to see what you actually think of these changes.
Marine is still able to crackhop like usual, and able to fire. HOWEVER, when the alien deals damage while he is in midair, he can't fire until he lands. This does not apply for jetpacks.
Should help ease the odds a small bit. After all, those who crackhop are usually firing when they are knocked back, and is the main issue AFAIK.
<!--QuoteBegin-briDge+Feb 25 2004, 01:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (briDge @ Feb 25 2004, 01:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And where does the acid for acid rocket come from? Does it just magically materialize? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The human body creates acid naturally to break down food. So you're point here is moot.
<!--QuoteBegin-MMZ>Torak+Feb 27 2004, 03:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Feb 27 2004, 03:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Marine01+Feb 26 2004, 02:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marine01 @ Feb 26 2004, 02:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Torak, think of how quickly marines die in two consecutive chomps. At start game when you manage to get in two rapid consecutive chomps (ie just hold down the mouse button for as long as it takes to bite twice) on a marine most of them will type "omg pwned" or something similar, because you have absolutely no chance and the whole battle takes less than a second.
I think that removing knockback is going to be a huge balance change, and marines are going to need something pretty special to counter it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> We already have a knockback thread so I will make this short. Marines have a ranged advantage, aliens are supposed to have the melee advantage. Knockback lessens the aliens melee advantage, through no fault of the alien. Marines can counter act the loss of knockback by making sure they move in groups of at least two or more, so as to not allow the skulk to get into melee range. This is a beta, I say lets try it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I pretty much agree and would like to try it, but my point is that now with a skulk 75% of the battle is closing the distance. Take out kb, and 100% of the battle is closing, cause once you are beside him, he is as dead as if he had typed kill in console 3 seconds ago. Thats not necessarily a bad thing, but Im just trying to show how huge a balance change it would be.
<!--QuoteBegin-Last.+Feb 23 2004, 07:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Last. @ Feb 23 2004, 07:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is just an example of people trying to suggest ideas to make the game easier for them. Think of it this way, if marines couldn't dodge, how in the world are they expected to survive if they're ambushed? Dodging is a balance factor, but with practice a good skulk can counter it. On the other hand, dodging is a skill, and how good you are also effects your marine skill. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> /agree
This is rediculous. It might get me in trouble, but from the posts, I've concluded you people are morons. Complete and utter morons. If I've offended you, I'm sorry, I honestly don't mean that as a flame (as in 'I hate you you moron!'), but it's just the only conclusion *I* can come to after reading these posts.
Case:
1) In every post against this, you say how 'not fun' it'd be to remove it. Really? You know how freaking <b>'not fun'</b> it is to have to run around swinging your arms willynilly trying to hit one marine while he empties a shotgun into you? Man, I mean, who thought the aliens should 'have fun' too? This game is ONLY about marines, isn't it? Right? I mean, it's so damn COOL to <b>suck so much at freaking aiming</b> that you can LET a skulk get within two inches of you and STILL have a chance at blowing it away.
Now without sarcasm: It's even <b>less fun</b> to have gotten within closing range of a marine, to have landed beside him after dropping off the ceiling like a spider, and begin to bite him, watching him bounce around while you fly past and around him as he empties bullets into you, to FINALLY get a bite and watch him fly across the room, reload, and put you down. Yeah, that's real freaking fun. It's so fun, it's the only reason I play NS: So I can watch my **** melee weapons put the enemy at not one, but TWO advantages.
Why should anyone care about marine fun? It's fun to Chow Yun Fat a skulk? Oh oh, you know what? Almost <b>every single feature on the alien team</b> has been <b>nerfed</b> since 3.0, and almost every single nerf was done for absolutely no frickin' reason.
2) Oh oh, marines that get ambushed are going to die? Good. Why should marines, a group of stupid marines, so blind and stupid, that walk into a freaking <b>ambush</b>, have a chance at surviving? This has to have been the most <b>abysmally weak</b> point I've ever heard for game balance. Man, I mean, a skulk should have a chance at surviving LMG fire. Give him automatic redemption. It's not fair when a skulk is charging at a marine face first down a wide open hallway that he gets shot to death.
Wait. Marines have ranged guns. Aliens that get caught at range have little chance of surviving.
Aliens have teeth. But you guys say that marines caught at melee with a skulk SHOULD have a chance at surviving.
If a marine encounters a skulk in close range, the marine should die, and only HA should be the ultimate protection from such. The ultimate solution? Learn to freaking aim. Once again, it sounds like marines are never EVER going to get hit with the nerf bat.
That's not a fair bet, because it's been proven time and time again since 2.0 was released that nothing you ever say on these forums, in IRC, to him in-game will ever make a damned difference.
<!--QuoteBegin-EEK+Mar 9 2004, 06:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ Mar 9 2004, 06:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is rediculous. It might get me in trouble, but from the posts, I've concluded you people are morons. Complete and utter morons. If I've offended you, I'm sorry, I honestly don't mean that as a flame (as in 'I hate you you moron!'), but it's just the only conclusion *I* can come to after reading these posts.
Case:
1) In every post against this, you say how 'not fun' it'd be to remove it. Really? You know how freaking <b>'not fun'</b> it is to have to run around swinging your arms willynilly trying to hit one marine while he empties a shotgun into you? Man, I mean, who thought the aliens should 'have fun' too? This game is ONLY about marines, isn't it? Right? I mean, it's so damn COOL to <b>suck so much at freaking aiming</b> that you can LET a skulk get within two inches of you and STILL have a chance at blowing it away.
Now without sarcasm: It's even <b>less fun</b> to have gotten within closing range of a marine, to have landed beside him after dropping off the ceiling like a spider, and begin to bite him, watching him bounce around while you fly past and around him as he empties bullets into you, to FINALLY get a bite and watch him fly across the room, reload, and put you down. Yeah, that's real freaking fun. It's so fun, it's the only reason I play NS: So I can watch my **** melee weapons put the enemy at not one, but TWO advantages.
Why should anyone care about marine fun? It's fun to Chow Yun Fat a skulk? Oh oh, you know what? Almost <b>every single feature on the alien team</b> has been <b>nerfed</b> since 3.0, and almost every single nerf was done for absolutely no frickin' reason.
2) Oh oh, marines that get ambushed are going to die? Good. Why should marines, a group of stupid marines, so blind and stupid, that walk into a freaking <b>ambush</b>, have a chance at surviving? This has to have been the most <b>abysmally weak</b> point I've ever heard for game balance. Man, I mean, a skulk should have a chance at surviving LMG fire. Give him automatic redemption. It's not fair when a skulk is charging at a marine face first down a wide open hallway that he gets shot to death.
Wait. Marines have ranged guns. Aliens that get caught at range have little chance of surviving.
Aliens have teeth. But you guys say that marines caught at melee with a skulk SHOULD have a chance at surviving.
If a marine encounters a skulk in close range, the marine should die, and only HA should be the ultimate protection from such. The ultimate solution? Learn to freaking aim. Once again, it sounds like marines are never EVER going to get hit with the nerf bat.
That's not a fair bet, because it's been proven time and time again since 2.0 was released that nothing you ever say on these forums, in IRC, to him in-game will ever make a damned difference. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> To sum up your post: I get owned as alien, so please nerf the marines even more.
<!--QuoteBegin-Gold Leader+Mar 9 2004, 12:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gold Leader @ Mar 9 2004, 12:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Some alien players have no problems hitting jumping marines with bite/slash. Some marine players have no problems hitting bunnyhopping aliens.
You can't balance player skill. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah you can, by not balancing for the exceptions. That's... sortof a given... Most players hate the bouncing and knockback. Some players have no problem.
<!--QuoteBegin-Align+Mar 9 2004, 03:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Mar 9 2004, 03:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Most according to "random pub". Since the public servers outweigh the non-pub, it's still the majority, even if the non-pub all vote 100% no. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It is true that public servers represent the majority of NS servers. This is a fact that I can see in my server browser.
I have not seen any complaining about marine jumping in the pub servers that I have played on.
You have argued that the majority of players on "random pubs" dislike bunnyhopping or marine jumping yet the only evidence we have is your personal experience or belief.
I can conclude from these posts that definitely some people do not like bunnyhopping. I cannot conclude that MOST people do not like bunnyhoppying because that does not follow from the evidence presented.
Gold Leader, since people generally don't like whining, what with intarweb reputation and all, they won't mention it. If you ask any of the aliens currently playing in a game(preferably one where they have all experienced, for example, marine dodging)[personally I have no problem with this, I'm just arguing for the sake of spreading logic], you can be pretty sure that most will respond either "omg ****" or "it's annoying, but necessary for balance".
Of course, if you ask the marines if "is the GL annoying and/or overpowered?", then most will say no to both. Just like xenocide/cloakus isn't overpowered or annoying at all when you're a skulk.
<!--QuoteBegin-Align+Mar 9 2004, 04:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Mar 9 2004, 04:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you ask any of the aliens currently playing in a game(preferably one where they have all experienced, for example, marine dodging)[personally I have no problem with this, I'm just arguing for the sake of spreading logic], you can be pretty sure that most will respond either "omg ****" or "it's annoying, but necessary for balance". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If the alien player responds "it's annoying, but necessary for balance", that isn't definitive enough. The alien player must state that they feel that "it is unbalanced".
I could (for the sake of logic) argue that getting killed is annoying, but necessary for balance.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
Do you want to balance NS to the point where it only consists of two identical concrete bricks crashing into each other at the same time and breaking at the same time? If it is impossible to be better or worse at something than somebody else is, then where is the fun? Or would you rather have it so that the point of NS is to keep repeating the same motion over and over again until you end up with carpal tunnel syndrome?
<!--QuoteBegin-Align+Mar 9 2004, 04:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Mar 9 2004, 04:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You dodged his point very nicely there gopher, not a single argument against him, except a blatant insult. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well I'm sorry, but I didn't see any suggestions in his posting. He was just whining & complaining about how he couldn't kill anything, and the marines should die from shock when he gots too close, etc. pp.
<!--QuoteBegin-EEK+Mar 8 2004, 09:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ Mar 8 2004, 09:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is rediculous. It might get me in trouble, but from the posts, I've concluded you people are morons. Complete and utter morons. If I've offended you, I'm sorry, I honestly don't mean that as a flame (as in 'I hate you you moron!'), but it's just the only conclusion *I* can come to after reading these posts.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> EEK, all I have to say is this. I've seen your posts, and not ONCE have you even considered anyone else's ideas or suggestions. Understand that YOUR game experience is not EVERYONE's game experience. You are not GOD, and we are not your MORONs. Until you've learned to respect everyone else's opinions, or at least make a post without insulting someone, please refrain from posting. Also, Flayra does listen to the masses. He does not of course say, "Due to community pressure, I have decided to change..." Take for example, when redemption was teh own back in early 2.0. Flayra IMMEDIATELY changed this with the first 2.01 build. People would get redempt onos, NEVER die, devour someone, redeem, and finish him off. Finally, who are you to say that the majority of people believe in something? Did you take a survey of some sort? If you were to make an unsupported claim such as "most" "few" or "everyone" in a real debate, you would be laughed out of the room.
Align: considering nearly all your posts are one liners yourself... i wouldn't talk.
Comments
I hope you know that the HL engine considers people 'jumping' to be the same as 'flying' - the player is governed by the same physics either way. There's no way to detect it unless there was a variable somewhere that remembered the last time you executed a +jump. It simply isn't possible without a lot of extra code. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The game already differentiates between jumping and flying, otherwise there would be no need for jetpacks. If you have a jetpack, you can fire while "in the air" if not, you cannot.
I do not think this is a necessary nerf. Removing knockback would solve the problem much better. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not true, you can quite happily jump and fire at the same time.
I hope you know that the HL engine considers people 'jumping' to be the same as 'flying' - the player is governed by the same physics either way. There's no way to detect it unless there was a variable somewhere that remembered the last time you executed a +jump. It simply isn't possible without a lot of extra code. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The game already differentiates between jumping and flying, otherwise there would be no need for jetpacks. If you have a jetpack, you can fire while "in the air" if not, you cannot.
I do not think this is a necessary nerf. Removing knockback would solve the problem much better. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not true, you can quite happily jump and fire at the same time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You missed the point.
Why dont we just have random moron posters throw in useless, sarcastic solutions in a serious thread....
Oh wait, sas has that one covered already.
Torak, think of how quickly marines die in two consecutive chomps. At start game when you manage to get in two rapid consecutive chomps (ie just hold down the mouse button for as long as it takes to bite twice) on a marine most of them will type "omg pwned" or something similar, because you have absolutely no chance and the whole battle takes less than a second.
I think that removing knockback is going to be a huge balance change, and marines are going to need something pretty special to counter it.
I think that removing knockback is going to be a huge balance change, and marines are going to need something pretty special to counter it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
We already have a knockback thread so I will make this short. Marines have a ranged advantage, aliens are supposed to have the melee advantage. Knockback lessens the aliens melee advantage, through no fault of the alien. Marines can counter act the loss of knockback by making sure they move in groups of at least two or more, so as to not allow the skulk to get into melee range. This is a beta, I say lets try it.
But this crackweaseljumping annoys me like hell.
It simply kills the atmosphere.
Marines should survive by means of teamwork, coverfire and coution. not superhuman athletic skills.
I would rather increase armour or weapon damadge for balance and eliminate
repetetive jumping, either with a stamina bar or (my favorite) by preventing the rine from firering the weapon while jumping.
Lets face it. It is a flaw in the game mechanics. It was possibly a cheap way to bypass the common "how do I reach that vent" problem common in older FPS engines.
It was a simple solution to replace a climbing ability. Noting more.
To declare it as nessesary part of the game, and as important skill is IMO just a
way to justify the exploitation of this flaw (for players) and to avoid probably a large amout of planning, programming and testing for the developers.
Just imagine sitting in training for the military and having you instructor say "And if your enemy ever tries to melee attack you, just jump around like hell and you'll be fine."
Jumping should just not be a valid defensive tactic. I'd say something as drastic as instituting CS jumping may be necessary. Discuss.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Marine01+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marine01)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why dont we just have random moron posters throw in useless, sarcastic solutions in a serious thread....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're an idiot if you consider this as a serious thread.
What are you basically doing if you're going to restrict marine jumping? a) You're taking out a major part of the excitement of playing as a marine - that rush you experience when you can jump over that skulk or sideways from that fade, see them look around frantically before realizing what had happened, or the satisfaction as an alien keeping up with the marine who is jumping around in panic, then killing them with a deep chortle? b) Turning NS into a different type of game, something along the lines of *gasp* DoD? or CS? or Medal of Honour? All you do mostly is point and shoot. Even then, at least you have some ability to make dives or side-jumps in knife/bayonet battles. Why do you want to turn a dynamic game like NS into a mind-numbing variation of these other games I listed?
There's a reason I quit DoD. It was too dull, too mind-numbing to keep playing a game with the realistic element of fatigue that greatly restricted vertical mobility, with the obvious conclusion to all battles - you pointed and shot, he (they) pointed and shot. Whoever's bullet hit first won. Now, translate that kind of gameplay into NS.
"Marine walks into a room, skulk jumps down, marine shoots but cannot put enough bullets in before the skulk chomps him to pieces."
"Group of marines walk into a room, shoot aliens as they huff and puff, running left and right - some live and some don't."
"Fade blinks in, gets close up to a marine, hits him three times and kills the marine."
The fun of hand-to-hand close quarter combat would be gone. The unpredictibility of close quarter combat would be gone. Figure out the consequences of this for pubs and scrims, and add to that the element of boredom which you plan to produce. Then tell me how 'serious' this topic is.
On the subject of meeting a skulk that "has not heard of looking up" I remember playing a quake LAN where mouse look was off, and you could only aim with cursors and A-Z (move up-move down.)
My team totally owned the other team by permanently crouching; we could not be shot. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> was awesome, if a little tedious for the other team. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
that's impossible. you can't crouch in quake D:
Leave knockback, but I would like to see what you actually think of these changes.
Marine is still able to crackhop like usual, and able to fire. HOWEVER, when the alien deals damage while he is in midair, he can't fire until he lands. This does not apply for jetpacks.
Should help ease the odds a small bit. After all, those who crackhop are usually firing when they are knocked back, and is the main issue AFAIK.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The human body creates acid naturally to break down food. So you're point here is moot.
I think that removing knockback is going to be a huge balance change, and marines are going to need something pretty special to counter it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We already have a knockback thread so I will make this short. Marines have a ranged advantage, aliens are supposed to have the melee advantage. Knockback lessens the aliens melee advantage, through no fault of the alien. Marines can counter act the loss of knockback by making sure they move in groups of at least two or more, so as to not allow the skulk to get into melee range. This is a beta, I say lets try it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I pretty much agree and would like to try it, but my point is that now with a skulk 75% of the battle is closing the distance. Take out kb, and 100% of the battle is closing, cause once you are beside him, he is as dead as if he had typed kill in console 3 seconds ago. Thats not necessarily a bad thing, but Im just trying to show how huge a balance change it would be.
/agree
Case:
1) In every post against this, you say how 'not fun' it'd be to remove it. Really? You know how freaking <b>'not fun'</b> it is to have to run around swinging your arms willynilly trying to hit one marine while he empties a shotgun into you? Man, I mean, who thought the aliens should 'have fun' too? This game is ONLY about marines, isn't it? Right? I mean, it's so damn COOL to <b>suck so much at freaking aiming</b> that you can LET a skulk get within two inches of you and STILL have a chance at blowing it away.
Now without sarcasm: It's even <b>less fun</b> to have gotten within closing range of a marine, to have landed beside him after dropping off the ceiling like a spider, and begin to bite him, watching him bounce around while you fly past and around him as he empties bullets into you, to FINALLY get a bite and watch him fly across the room, reload, and put you down. Yeah, that's real freaking fun. It's so fun, it's the only reason I play NS: So I can watch my **** melee weapons put the enemy at not one, but TWO advantages.
Why should anyone care about marine fun? It's fun to Chow Yun Fat a skulk? Oh oh, you know what? Almost <b>every single feature on the alien team</b> has been <b>nerfed</b> since 3.0, and almost every single nerf was done for absolutely no frickin' reason.
2) Oh oh, marines that get ambushed are going to die? Good. Why should marines, a group of stupid marines, so blind and stupid, that walk into a freaking <b>ambush</b>, have a chance at surviving? This has to have been the most <b>abysmally weak</b> point I've ever heard for game balance. Man, I mean, a skulk should have a chance at surviving LMG fire. Give him automatic redemption. It's not fair when a skulk is charging at a marine face first down a wide open hallway that he gets shot to death.
Wait. Marines have ranged guns. Aliens that get caught at range have little chance of surviving.
Aliens have teeth. But you guys say that marines caught at melee with a skulk SHOULD have a chance at surviving.
If a marine encounters a skulk in close range, the marine should die, and only HA should be the ultimate protection from such. The ultimate solution? Learn to freaking aim. Once again, it sounds like marines are never EVER going to get hit with the nerf bat.
Forlorn:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bet you 500 bucks FLayra doens't remove KB<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's not a fair bet, because it's been proven time and time again since 2.0 was released that nothing you ever say on these forums, in IRC, to him in-game will ever make a damned difference.
Case:
1) In every post against this, you say how 'not fun' it'd be to remove it. Really? You know how freaking <b>'not fun'</b> it is to have to run around swinging your arms willynilly trying to hit one marine while he empties a shotgun into you? Man, I mean, who thought the aliens should 'have fun' too? This game is ONLY about marines, isn't it? Right? I mean, it's so damn COOL to <b>suck so much at freaking aiming</b> that you can LET a skulk get within two inches of you and STILL have a chance at blowing it away.
Now without sarcasm: It's even <b>less fun</b> to have gotten within closing range of a marine, to have landed beside him after dropping off the ceiling like a spider, and begin to bite him, watching him bounce around while you fly past and around him as he empties bullets into you, to FINALLY get a bite and watch him fly across the room, reload, and put you down. Yeah, that's real freaking fun. It's so fun, it's the only reason I play NS: So I can watch my **** melee weapons put the enemy at not one, but TWO advantages.
Why should anyone care about marine fun? It's fun to Chow Yun Fat a skulk? Oh oh, you know what? Almost <b>every single feature on the alien team</b> has been <b>nerfed</b> since 3.0, and almost every single nerf was done for absolutely no frickin' reason.
2) Oh oh, marines that get ambushed are going to die? Good. Why should marines, a group of stupid marines, so blind and stupid, that walk into a freaking <b>ambush</b>, have a chance at surviving? This has to have been the most <b>abysmally weak</b> point I've ever heard for game balance. Man, I mean, a skulk should have a chance at surviving LMG fire. Give him automatic redemption. It's not fair when a skulk is charging at a marine face first down a wide open hallway that he gets shot to death.
Wait. Marines have ranged guns. Aliens that get caught at range have little chance of surviving.
Aliens have teeth. But you guys say that marines caught at melee with a skulk SHOULD have a chance at surviving.
If a marine encounters a skulk in close range, the marine should die, and only HA should be the ultimate protection from such. The ultimate solution? Learn to freaking aim. Once again, it sounds like marines are never EVER going to get hit with the nerf bat.
Forlorn:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bet you 500 bucks FLayra doens't remove KB<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's not a fair bet, because it's been proven time and time again since 2.0 was released that nothing you ever say on these forums, in IRC, to him in-game will ever make a damned difference. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
To sum up your post: I get owned as alien, so please nerf the marines even more.
You can't balance player skill.
You can't balance player skill. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah you can, by not balancing for the exceptions. That's... sortof a given... Most players hate the bouncing and knockback. Some players have no problem.
Most > Some
'Majority rule, don't work in mental institution'
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It is true that public servers represent the majority of NS servers. This is a fact that I can see in my server browser.
I have not seen any complaining about marine jumping in the pub servers that I have played on.
You have argued that the majority of players on "random pubs" dislike bunnyhopping or marine jumping yet the only evidence we have is your personal experience or belief.
I can conclude from these posts that definitely some people do not like bunnyhopping. I cannot conclude that MOST people do not like bunnyhoppying because that does not follow from the evidence presented.
Of course, if you ask the marines if "is the GL annoying and/or overpowered?", then most will say no to both. Just like xenocide/cloakus isn't overpowered or annoying at all when you're a skulk.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the alien player responds "it's annoying, but necessary for balance", that isn't definitive enough. The alien player must state that they feel that "it is unbalanced".
I could (for the sake of logic) argue that getting killed is annoying, but necessary for balance.
Well I'm sorry, but I didn't see any suggestions in his posting. He was just whining & complaining about how he couldn't kill anything, and the marines should die from shock when he gots too close, etc. pp.
EEK, all I have to say is this. I've seen your posts, and not ONCE have you even considered anyone else's ideas or suggestions. Understand that YOUR game experience is not EVERYONE's game experience. You are not GOD, and we are not your MORONs. Until you've learned to respect everyone else's opinions, or at least make a post without insulting someone, please refrain from posting. Also, Flayra does listen to the masses. He does not of course say, "Due to community pressure, I have decided to change..." Take for example, when redemption was teh own back in early 2.0. Flayra IMMEDIATELY changed this with the first 2.01 build. People would get redempt onos, NEVER die, devour someone, redeem, and finish him off. Finally, who are you to say that the majority of people believe in something? Did you take a survey of some sort? If you were to make an unsupported claim such as "most" "few" or "everyone" in a real debate, you would be laughed out of the room.
Align: considering nearly all your posts are one liners yourself... i wouldn't talk.
Sarisel: I love you.