Combat Sensor Sweep...
NEO_Phyte
We need shirtgons! Join Date: 2003-12-16 Member: 24453Members, Constellation
We need shirtgons! Join Date: 2003-12-16 Member: 24453Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">...lame</div> im going to go right to the point <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
in combat, the sensor sweep upgrade is the ultimate lame
when a person has it, it is physically impossible to cloak anywhere near him, because the moment an alien cloaks within the radius of that player, a sensor sweep occurs.
it also doesnt fit the game very well (see below)
how does the "commander" know there is a cloaked alien nearby??
how doesnt the "commander" run out of obs energy??
so i say:
either give that person the ability to scan on command (with a recharging 100 energy limit)
or
make it scan once every 1-5 minutes
this is an honest problem with possible solutions listed, but even so...
*grabs fire extinguisher*
in combat, the sensor sweep upgrade is the ultimate lame
when a person has it, it is physically impossible to cloak anywhere near him, because the moment an alien cloaks within the radius of that player, a sensor sweep occurs.
it also doesnt fit the game very well (see below)
how does the "commander" know there is a cloaked alien nearby??
how doesnt the "commander" run out of obs energy??
so i say:
either give that person the ability to scan on command (with a recharging 100 energy limit)
or
make it scan once every 1-5 minutes
this is an honest problem with possible solutions listed, but even so...
*grabs fire extinguisher*
Comments
Don't waste your upgrades on cloaking, also cloaking is 100x more lame than scanner sweep will ever be
without cloaking, how do you get near a marine without dieing???
(predicted response::: something about not being a n00b)
@sarisel
good point with SoF, but silence::: try walking, you <b>can</b> sneak <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
to solve SoF, how about <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=60756&hl=fear+meter' target='_blank'>the fear meter</a>
also, the aliens are SUPPOSED to be sneaky little B**tards, so why do we need counters for every form of alien sneakiness (MT to counter moving) (obs to counter cloaking while NOT moving)??
:edit: on the subject of lame, how about this one?? (due to emoticon limit, imagine a farm here) <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' /><!--endemo--> |wall here| (hive)
without cloaking, how do you get near a marine without dieing???
(predicted response::: something about not being a n00b)
also, the aliens are SUPPOSED to be sneaky little B**tards, so why do we need counters for every form of alien sneakiness (MT to counter moving) (obs to counter cloaking while NOT moving)??
:edit: on the subject of lame, how about this one?? (due to emoticon limit, imagine a farm here) <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' /><!--endemo--> |wall here| (hive) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='color:white'>Did you accomplish anything by posting that huge image? No. Don't.</span>
You answered your own question in your reply. Be a sneaky ****.
For the love of god, DON'T RUSH MARINES IN COMBAT AS A SKULK. You give them experience, then come here and **** that the game isn't balanced. Your not supposed to take the marines head on. Ambush. Wait. <b>Make them come to you</b>
Every Combat game I've played where the Kharaa team is smart and <b>forces</b> the marine team to leave their spawn by not rushing them has been a win. Getting that first 'free' bite in before they even know you are there is crucial.
Otherwise, ways to close with a marine quickly: Clerity, Leap, and later evolutions, Lerk flight and Fade Blink. Its all very possible.
in combat, the sensor sweep upgrade is the ultimate lame
when a person has it, it is physically impossible to cloak anywhere near him, because the moment an alien cloaks within the radius of that player, a sensor sweep occurs.
it also doesnt fit the game very well (see below)
how does the "commander" know there is a cloaked alien nearby??
how doesnt the "commander" run out of obs energy??
so i say:
either give that person the ability to scan on command (with a recharging 100 energy limit)
or
make it scan once every 1-5 minutes
this is an honest problem with possible solutions listed, but even so...
*grabs fire extinguisher* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not everyone gets scanner sweep because it means giving up another upgrade that would be more useful; weapons 3, hmg/gl, or jp/ha. If they're willing to give up one of those upgrades just to uncloak aliens, the least it could do is not suck. So, I see nothing wrong with scanner sweep as it is now.
i dont rush them as a skulk, i am complaining that the way combat sensor sweep upgrade is set up, it gets to the point where you could be ready to ambush a marine that is walking towards you, but a marine that is behind a wall can walk closer to your location and suddenly you get a lead facelift. also, there arent enough shadowy corners in a map to hide, and a halfways decent marine will check those spots with their flashlight
ambushing doesnt work very well once they start to get armor upgrades (skulk takes more time to make a kill, and just TRY hiding a fade without cloaking
also, how do you keep from being noticed?
if you are in a spot where he cant see you, odds are you arent close enough to bite him
and like I said; marines have permacounters against sneakiness
:edit:
@saberx
the current combat sensor sweep is the equivilent of carrying an observatory that TELLS YOU when it decloaks something
:/edit:
and either way, its about time they <b>stopped</b> nerfing aliens (acid rocket, slower skulks, web limit, OCs, healspray)
AMBUSH damnit!
I dont know how many nubs have killed me a haxxor cause i shoot at all the regular cloaked-skulk places (or when i actually see the cloaked skulk) <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
AMBUSH damnit!
I dont know how many nubs have killed me a haxxor cause i shoot at all the regular cloaked-skulk places (or when i actually see the cloaked skulk) <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh, agreed. I don't need Sensor Sweep, if you know what your looking for you can see cloaked Kharaa anyway. I'd much rather have Weapons 3 or something similar than Sweep. The only time I've used Sweep is in very small games (3 or less per side) when all the Kharaa go cloakus whoring.
It pisses me off even more when I see freaking FADES cloak walking around the map. Ok guys, fades really suck when you use them that way. they're meant to be played a hit and runners using blink, not ambushers.
@saberx
the current combat sensor sweep is the equivilent of carrying an observatory that TELLS YOU when it decloaks something
:/edit: <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So? You still have to kill the Alien. Cloaking is garbage late game anyways, scanner sweep or not. If a Marine wastes a level on scanner sweep, that's better than him having a GL (or any of the other far more powerful upgrades that will be useful vs. ALL the aliens - not just the cloaked skulks.)
what is easier to kill??
(a skulk in the middle of a room that catches you by surprise)
OR...
(a skulk in the middle of a room that just became visible from at least 25' away)
also, a marine can get Scan & a GL
w1->shotgun->GL/HMG
unless it changed, that is 3 points. that leaves 6
a1->a2->HA/JP
4 points, leaving 2
resupply
1, leaving 1
that leaves 1 points that could go into Scan, even with all that stuff
@daxx and coris
im goind to give you some trust and assume you dont turn up your gamma to see cloakers <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
@bobdolol
how else do you use a skulk, rushing straight at them??
im goind to give you some trust and assume you dont turn up your gamma to see cloakers <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
@bobdolol
how else do you use a skulk, rushing straight at them?? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
My gamma is set so I can see, not to any washed out setting. Thats just stupid, I don't like playing in a pastel world <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> A cloaked moving Kharaa <b>is</b> visible, just difficult to see. I've been ambushed by a good cloaker, but more often then not people seem to think that cloak will render them invincible or something, and walk straight down a hallway with it. Quite often depending on whats behind that player, its relatively easy to spot the cloaker. And the cry of "Hax!" follow soon after <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
A good ambusher will be much more deadly than one with cloak, since he wont be seen anyway and can spend his EXP on better upgrades (carapace, anyone?)
without cloaking, how do you get near a marine without dieing???
(predicted response::: something about not being a n00b) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, there aren't too many ways, but I figure you could try a few of the following ideas, none of which you are limited to but I can see why you must take cloaking when the only other ways to approch marines are this:
- Bhop
- Leap
- Ambush
- Go lerk and spore them
- Go lerk and take celerity, get umbra and charge
- Fades can take some abuse and therefore can rush
- Fades can blink
- Onos
But I can see why you feel you need cloaking every game, I mean how else could you possibly approch marines, even when you have the 8 reasons I provided, it obviously isn't anything compared to cloaking which can only help the skulk at the very start of the game, I think I'm starting to see your point
how else do you use a skulk, rushing straight at them?? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
HAHA
Ugh, you just proved my point. You don't need cloaking to be a good skulk, try AMBUSHING, BUNNYHOPPING, or LEAPING.
@saber
what is easier to kill??
(a skulk in the middle of a room that catches you by surprise)
OR...
(a skulk in the middle of a room that just became visible from at least 25' away)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why are you standing in the middle of the room? If I'm cloaked I always stand to the sides, out of the way, in order to avoid them walking directly into me.
Just because the sweep goes off doesn't mean the Marine is always gonna be looking directly at the skulk. The Marine still has to find him and kill him. Also, the Alien knows his cover is blown by the obvious sweep that shoots out across the room, so the Alien has time to run away or rush at the Marine.
<!--QuoteBegin-error 404 name not found+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (error 404 name not found)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
also, a marine can get Scan & a GL
w1->shotgun->GL/HMG
unless it changed, that is 3 points. that leaves 6
a1->a2->HA/JP
4 points, leaving 2
resupply
1, leaving 1
that leaves 1 points that could go into Scan, even with all that stuff
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know you can get GL with scanner sweep, but I just picked it as an example. Point being, the Marine can't have a more important upgrade if he picks scanner sweep.
Resupply, Weapon 1 & 2, Armor 1 & 2, Shotgun = 6 levels. You only get 9 total, so picking scanner sweep means you are gonna be lacking something more useful.
For example, at level 3 you get focus and cloaking and become a SERIOUS pain in the **** to the lvl 0 armor marines running around. They eventually get frustrated and 2 or so waste a point on scanner sweep.
F4, rejoin aliens and re-level up the non cloaking route. You've basically handicapt the marine team by forcing them into wasting an upgrade that doesn't serve a purpose anymore (since there are no more cloaking aliens).
Yes, I have used cloak quite a bit, but as I played combat more, I found that other options are better. Silence + SOF allows for all the sneaking you'll need as long as marines don't get motion hacking -- and luckily most don't in combat. Combine those with celerity and focus (if you are a skulk) and you have a pretty lethal ambushing combination.
Anyway Combat is supposed to be a fast paced game so no need to sit around and camp.
Anyways , the scanner sweep doesn't explicitely tell you where the alien is - you have to notice it. As a cloaked skulk I don't stand in the way of the marines , but rather on walls / ceilings. The moment I'm uncloaked , I can drop on them.
Not sure if 3 sensory upped skulk are lame - they're needed when JP GLs visit the hive on a regular basis. The focused bite removes their armor completely , making them killable by focus lerks or fades.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Anyway Combat is supposed to be a fast paced game so no need to sit around and camp.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tell that to the marine campers who don't leave the base for the whole freaking game...
Now, I agree that the entire marine team not leaving spawn is lame. But I'm getting annoyed at everyone who thinks somebody guarding the CC, armory, or more importantly in the newest beta, spawning marines, are "camper marines". I guess we should just all leave base so it's easy for you to be the hero and kill the CC, and spawncamp marines long enough for your reinforcments.
Sure you can always get cloaking to get the marine guards, but you do it enough and they get annoyed and get scanner sweep. If you are silence killing me alot, I'll get annoyed and get motion tracking. Simple as that. Just parts of the game... evolving to fit different situations. I think the scanner sweep in combat is fine.
And scanning (in combat) is a bit odd. It scans immediately when a cloaked unit is nearby. I think there should be a certain time between scans (just like the original post said)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Try this against (skilled) cloaking skulks. By the time you go around the corner a cloaked skulk can be on the opposite side of the room. <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> *chomp* *chomp* <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
It's pretty hard to see a cloaked skulk as long as it doesn't move close to lights or different textures. Most (99%) of the marines won't see it.
your post doesnt really make that much sense (the first part), as he is talking about MT (he would "see" the skulk moving across the room (unless walking doesnt show up))
@retales
you seem to be the first to truely grasp what i said
(its not that i want to get rid of sensor sweep, its just lame/not making sense that it pings the instant there is a cloaked alien nearby)
(BTW i dont use focus, so im not complaining that i cant get focus kills because they scan me)
(im not a spawncamping lamer)
Cloak is an all or nothing skill. Unlike other skills, it becomes <b>entirely worthless</b> when there is an enemy around with the counter to it. It takes just one marine with sweep in their base to make cloak a wasted point. MT doesn't nullify the effectiveness of speed or silence upgrades, but sweep totally shoots down cloak, because one marine can make the alien visible to EVERYONE.
I've seen my entire marine team molested by a few cloaked aliens; after which I got sweep and the problem was suddenly taken care of. One marine spending one point can nullify the cloak skill of MULTIPLE aliens, mean one point overrides multiple points by multiple individuals :) This is a fairly unique occurance in the game as far as I know.
It's not unreasonable to suggest that Sweep be triggered manually by the marine, or at least that the sweep takes longer to recharge.
That's like saying focus makes resupply a wasted point, since resupply doesn't get a chance to kick in. It's a counter. Given the limited number of points a marine doesn't have to spend on "required" upgrades like armor to JP/HA and heavy weapon, scan is usually only taken if cloaking is a severe problem. Those points are better spent on mines, resupply and welders in my opinion.
I almost never use cloaking unless I'm going to be superskulk in combat. I certainly don't use it for higher lifeforms. Onos are too big and lerks and fades aren't well suited for camping. You can camp, but if you do, you're not taking advantage of their extreme mobility.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Walking doesn't show on motion tracking when the alien is cloaked. Indeed this was my point <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> (At least it was this way in beta 2 and I don't think they changed it but many alien players haven't yet realized it works that way now).
On topic: I think there should be a hard counter to cloaking or it would be the ultimate super skill. An alien spends one upgrade points, a marine spends one upgrade points. Cloaking isn't made for attacking the marine base so just stay away from that one marine who got scanner sweep if you want to be a sneaky cloaking skulk.