Commanders Need To Stop Being Stupid

ApolloGX · February 2004

<div class="IPBDescription">Let your marines play the game</div> One time we were sneaking a phase gate at a hive and i heard an egg evolving

i was like SWEET

and i ran into the hive only to see the egg turn into a gorge and then the skulks followed and saw our pg

luckily we didnt lose the position but our comm flamed me

OMG APOLLO!!1111 WTH ARE YOU DOING I SAID DONT MOVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

yeah ok

you are going to tell me that the aliens would have never known about the phase gate? you think that the 5 seconds of undetected time i wasted would have helped us? you never know what the egg could have been

COMMANDERS: TRUST YOUR MARINES JUDGEMENT SOMETIMES HE KNOWS MORE THAN YOU IF YOU ARE STUPID!

done and done

Apocalypse · February 2004

That commander had every right to be mad at you. He asked you not to move, and you disobeyed his direct order. He has a plan, he knows how many people are where, and what everyone else is doing. A good commander knows far more than the player does, and especially in a pub, you must follow your commander. It isn't easy commanding pubs and it just makes it harder when people don't follow orders. I have lost plenty of games due to the fact that I completely underestimated my player's ability to follow orders. Its people like you who think they are the best, and know how to play the game much better than the commander. I won't deny that sometimes the marine does know more than the commander at times, but 99% of the time the commander knows more, even more true in 3.0b2.

BigMadSteve · February 2004

I agree ^^. Though I sometimes go ramboing with the permission of the comm. On my regular server the comm usually knows I can be trusted. Yesterday, for example: Me and another marine crawled all the way through the vent that goes from Power Silo to Via and we crawled into Via. It was active. He dropped a pg and we shotgunned the poor hive to death in seconds before the aliens even had a chance to respond. That would not been possible if I didn't go rambo.

Summary: Ramboing is bad but there are exceptions.

hashar · February 2004

You just ramboed <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /> where you could have been a good <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /> and listen to your comm. He is responsible for the tactic, the 5 seconds you are talking about could have been enough to finish the phasegate and get a squad <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /> coming to kill that <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /> and the <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /> !!!

1st rule as marine: listen & obey your commander

Destroyer · February 2004

precisely.
I get so frustrated with disobeyers that when i hand out weapons i say "ok everybody stand still so you get youre weapons and armor"
i give everybody HMG HA Welder combos and the marine that was being disobedient earlier i give a welder and tell him to guard, because i cant trust him to use the equipment effectively.

SpyderShadow · February 2004

Commanders don't think. But im not complaining about that, they get the job done at times...

One thing I hate the most is when N00bs get in the CC and 'TRY' to do somethin. but in the long run they ruined the whole game for the marines and even the aliens.
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' />

Fat_Man_Little_Coat · February 2004

Why do I get the sense that ApolloGx is the same type of player who annoys the com throughout the game for a shotgun, and if they lose, blames the fact he never got one as the reason they didn't win.

The com shouldn't have over-reacted too much, but you deserved what you got.
If he tells you not to move, don't move.

Why is that so hard to understand?

sawce · February 2004

ApolloGx, next game you play, you enter the chair, and show those people what a real commander is made of! Who needs orders, a plan, or much less, a strategy!?

Special_K · February 2004

I agree with ApolloGX. The risk was acceptable, although leading the skulks straight back to the pg wasn't all that bright.
Everyone always says to 'follow orders no matter what', but the fact is that most (or many at least) pub commanders aren't all that great, and depend heavily on skilled marines to make critical decisions that decide the outcomes of games. If you know what you're doing don't be afraid to run off a bit and get the job done.

BOBDolol · February 2004

Meh I just rambo around and ask for meds while going rt hunting and such and such.

Sandrock · February 2004

Sounds awefully similar to a game I commed this evening...

DC_Darkling · February 2004

When i commander I give few orders. Near nothing. I start building a IP, sending rines out to get RTs. (travel in groups, go alone I don't care)

I only give some orders like find RTs, go to WP (when trouble) etc. I leave most work on the rines.

This has 2 concequences.
A. rines don't trust me. I get lotsa eject requests. Never succeeded.
B. few min ingame and rines DO see it works and listen
C. they can do alot themselves and listen to the rare WPs I give.

Turkey2 · February 2004

Rushing an egg in a hive is an acceptable risk as long as other people are through the phase and have secured it. Btw if the phase is close enough to the hive that you can hear an egg more than likely they can hear you phase gate so there really is no risk. Now if you have little or no backup and the comms trying to get a tf down I would suggest staying back and guarding.

chis1 · February 2004

I always rambo <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

i never take marines seriously

since i never go them

and if im forced onto the team i will just rambo off to explore

altho i will follow orders such as, build a resource tower etc..

taboofires · February 2004

Disobeying is fine as long as you justify it beforehand, not after or never. Saying "hey I hear an egg" gives the commander the chance to determine what is more important.

Doobie_Dan · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SpyderShadow @ Feb 6 2004, 01:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> One thing I hate the most is when N00bs get in the CC and 'TRY' to do somethin. but in the long run they ruined the whole game for the marines and even the aliens.
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I don't mind that at all - I try to give them pointers. What I DO hate is people either rushing the chair or asking permission during the countdown, comming for 4-5 minutes, then getting out "I don't want to anymore" or "I suck, sorry". If you're going to comm, do it the whole game. Even if you've already lost, spend that time practicing the controls or trying to evaluate what it is you did wrong. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' />

Paranoia2MB · February 2004

I think they where both right and both wrong. What if that was an Onos and if he did get the egg before it hatched? Even though cover was blown, but that PG is one loud mofo so not like it mattered much.

kiwi · February 2004

the funny thing about that is, if it had been an onos eggy the comm would have loved you

Gecko_God_Of_Dooom · February 2004

I comm alot of games, if my reens listen, and can actualy shoot something, I usualy win. When the reens dont listen, die constantly and ammo hump. I just jump out of the comm chair. and say. You guys don't need a commander. Yall going rambo and not following orders, your a team that likes to do things bythemselves. Have fun as a rambo team. And then i just go around an kill alians.

Now if they are listening to orders, and thye just suck (ie. they all die in a room wiht just one skulk, without cloaking.) ill still finish the game as a comm.

When a reen isn't following orders, I just shout out there name and tell the team what thier doing..they usualy begin to listen.

Magical_Mongoose · February 2004

There's NOTHING more frustrating in a game than a whining 6-year-old demanding "I want a jetpack" 30 seconds in the game. I forget what server this was on (I think bean.net), but this child was so irritating that the whole team was laughing their **** off, especially at me. I was swearing at the kid, saying "Holy crap, SUYF you stupid child", "Follow your waypoints or I'm going to call your Dad to come and spank you", and "The jetpack is at the bottom of that pit".
Despite this seemingly retarded *cough* "mentally handicapped" individual, he became an asset for our team. Here's why:

1) Extremely easy to motivate (to do ANYTHING) with the lure of a jetpack/shotgun/HMG. I told him to stand in a doorway for 3 minutes once I gave him a gun, and surely enough, he blocked not only 2 fades, but a running onos as well. I doubt he even hit them, but he delayed their retreat long enough for them to be obliterated.
2) Functioned as the team's decoy. He would simply (unknowingly) run out in an open area, often freestyling a rendition of "The Wheels on the Bus", while the whole team just stood back spotting him. The cloaked aliens would reveal themselves, and in short-order get blasted to giz as he frantically tried to knife them.
3) Comic relief. In a game of snivelling smacktards with extreme nasal-voices saying "Cumander, I'd like to ask you on the behalf of my team mates the aquirement of several heavy machine gun units..."etc., It was extremely refreshing to have a moment to release my pent-up COMMRAGE on this unsuspecting child.

Maybe I emotionally scarred this infant for life. Maybe he'll end up a crack-head cannibal due to my profane language, and my domineering attitude. But what he'll go down in my history books is how one individual, through complete incompetence and ignorance was able to, essentially, lead a team to victory.

Have faith in the weak.

Cheese · February 2004

ok there are comms who give vanialla rines waypoints through a WOL. you tell them that you cant move througha fter 2 of your comrades died. well he doesn´t listen. that suxx. its the commanders job to listen to the marines too. they know what exactly happens at the front. the comm jst has an overview.

of course it is important to obey orders.
of course it is important not to rambo.
of course it is important to ask your commander before you take actions that could influence or change his plan.

but it is also the comms job to protect the mariens and to listen to them. He is the commander. He gives orders. But he has to change his orders if the rines tell him that there are problems they can´t handle.

Communication guys!

thats important. thats the way to succeed.
and thats important for marines and the commander

DC_Darkling · February 2004

yeh, such naggers are a mess.

What I hate though, is commanding a team who can't aim. Blaiming the comm about it.

I for one, got a strange way of comming, which works. If the darn team can aim. yesterday I had a team which couldn't. They couldhave HMG, JP, shotty, GL, had armor3 and weapon3 and still go to the point that they died of skulks.

True, a comm has to listen and think. But that also counts for the team. Asking yet again for a shotgun while you just wasted one by dieing cause you are crap really is a res drain most comms don't need.

Cookeh · February 2004

i agree with acopalypse on his earlier post. you shouldn't ran to that egg, why did the comm stationed you there ? to build the pg and tf and turrets etc ..

and when the team comes through the PG, i'm agreeing that THEN would be a good time to hunt down that egg..(or the hatched-egg or .. whatever.. )

just listen to the comm <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

Keyser · February 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ApolloGX @ Feb 5 2004, 10:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> COMMANDERS: TRUST YOUR MARINES JUDGEMENT SOMETIMES HE KNOWS MORE THAN YOU IF YOU ARE STUPID!  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>o.0</span>

Cheese · February 2004

hmm
since my last post i played a game and the rines started shouting for another IP. The told the comm 5 times in 15 seconds. so I, as a rine told them to shut up cause the comm knows it now. the actually did. and the comm built the IP. ah i love happy ends

Anderval · February 2004

actually it just depends imo. Most the of the time the comm has other things on his mind, so it's upto you as a marine to use your initiative, going for that egg was an acceptable risk.

Commanders may have a plan but often the marine knows more about what's going on around him and has to act on that in the best way possible regardless of the comms orders.

I often think of my orders as generalguidelines e.g. "Anderval, go get me some rts" "Anderval go annoy theat hive" "Anderval build this mini-base/guard it etc"

now, there are many ways i could go about any of these, and the one i choose is best decided by me, the guy on the ground concentrating solely on my own situation rather than looking after 6-or so other little guys.

Basically it just relies on using your common sense as a marine to achive a victory, the comm who gives waypoints and expect them to be followed the letter isn't comming properly imo - i find comms (including me) have much more success if they give general objectives etc over voice-comm, and most importantly TRUST their marines judgement.

And yes i realise that isn't always possible on pubs :/ - the only thing you can do is find yourself a good regular server <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Navck · February 2004

Comms should take suggestions sometimes or listen to marines...
Marine:I SEE THE HIVE!!! *Looks at grenade launcher to see no ammo and aliens on motion sensor approching*
Comm:SUYF!! I'm building sentry guns.
Marine:But I have the hive, drop me a few ammo and we can win!
Comm:Waste of resources, go back to base and make more, those onos can't even get thru this farm of turrets
*Aliens suddenly kill the lone marine who found the hive, then they rush and kill the base as they were setting turrets up*
Now sometimes comms are stupid
Marines get slaughted
Marine:Comm, we need HMGs, those fades are hard
Comm:Saving resources, besides you can take them out with your LMGs
Marines:We don't stand a chance
Comm:Ok, how about we build a siege gun and rush their hive or farm turrets
Marine:Thats stupid
Comm:It isn't, go and rush the hive now
Aliens:Look a bunch of marines with LMGs, hehe
Marines get slaughtered going to hive obeying comm
Comm chair is destoryed as marines spawn
Comm:YOU *insert lots of swearing etc here*s!!! You LET ME DIE !!! N00BS!!!

You can clearly see sometimes you should listen to your fellow players...

Alien Skulk:I see a resource, I'm gona go gorge
Gorge nearby:Wait I'm close

See the resources saved? See less combat loss?

Listen to your team, take suggestions from them.

Edit:Made funny mistake
Alien Skulk:I see a resource, I'm gona go skulk
Gorge nearby:Wait I'm close
Notice what he was going to turn into... My bad

Gecko_God_Of_Dooom · February 2004

REEN: COMM, we need SG to take out the Fade!
COMM: No you don't you just need one pack of mines
REEN: Are you stupid or something
COMM: No, goto your waypoint here and Ill kill the fade (drops mines, gets outa comm chair. Goes out side of base, where fade was herasing. Makes a stack of mines below him, stands up top. Fade comes to kill him, both die from mines)
REENS: LOL, LOL, LOL
COMM: see, and thats how its done

REEN: COMM, we need SG to take out fades!
COMM: We don't have the rez for SGs
REEN: we got 150 what are you talking about
COMM: they are for teh HMGs and heavies (drop drop drop)
REEN: OOOOO

COMM: onm the left side of base, you have your choice of heavy armor, or Jps, which automaticly welders already there for your conviane; adn on the right side of base, you have your SGs, HMGs, and a few GLs, and near the front of base Some mines for you PLesure
REEN: (spawns in) Now what do I want to get this time....

REEN: Research LVL 3 weapons!
COMM: already done
REEN: get armor then
COMM: done
REEN: what about -
COMM: I have everything already research, and stock piles of equpment, I have every resorces node on the map, electrified, turreted farmed, and phase gated. O, I don't ahve the last hive rez node though
REEN: On My way to get you the last rez node
COMM: Good, I could use more rez (stock pile 340) <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' />

personal accounts of comming <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

Buggy · February 2004

Navck's post is hilarious tbh <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />
and its sometimes hopeless to see comms put turrets..and turrets...and turrets...more turrets...some turrets over there too....then see an onos walk over them, gore the tf/pg a bit, and mashes what could have been a full rine team with HMG.

DC_Darkling · February 2004

like I always comm.. i give orders, but who handles them and how I couldn't care less. Aslong as its done.

This is more enjoyable for the comm and his rines indeed

Scylla · February 2004

As several stated communication is the way ... if you keep your commander and team informed is a big bonus for the team.

If i hear a egg in the hive i would also attack it immidiate but i would also inform my commander about it so he knows why i disobeyed his order.

As rine you have to make your own decisions. But keep others informed.

Communication kills Fades. Inform your team about escape routes of a Fade and if you're lucky a teammate is near the escape route and can finish off the fade.

War is won by Information.

Commanders Need To Stop Being Stupid

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