Why Fps Is Better Then Armor At Start.
DarkYeti
Join Date: 2003-11-15 Member: 22886Members
Join Date: 2003-11-15 Member: 22886Members
If there was a topic like that before then I'm sorry, but I didnt see one....any way:
Well lets start by saying why we usually do take armor first...
The idea is to give players an extra bite before they die.
But, if the players are good enough, they can aim better and dodge some bites...That means if they will have FP first they will kill faster and probably wouldnt even need to dodge the skulk.
Armor is actually needed vs onos and fade, maybe even vs lerk, so at start FP will be better.
The continuation is the commanders choise, to mkae second level FP or first level armor, etc.
If you play in public find out if your players are good, cause they might need armor at start cause they cant aim.... <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well lets start by saying why we usually do take armor first...
The idea is to give players an extra bite before they die.
But, if the players are good enough, they can aim better and dodge some bites...That means if they will have FP first they will kill faster and probably wouldnt even need to dodge the skulk.
Armor is actually needed vs onos and fade, maybe even vs lerk, so at start FP will be better.
The continuation is the commanders choise, to mkae second level FP or first level armor, etc.
If you play in public find out if your players are good, cause they might need armor at start cause they cant aim.... <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
I prefer having armor first for those sneaky skulks that get real close, that extra bite can make alot of difference.
I vote armor. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=51996' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...ST&f=20&t=51996</a>
yep
and on-topic: armor1 is better than weapon1, it can be PROVEN statistically. end of <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Then what use is armour 1?itll be arm 1-2, wpn1-3 , arm3 isntead...
To sum up that other thread: get both armor 1 and weapons 1! The first levels of both are cheap, fast to research, and most importantly of all permanant. The time between armor 1 and weapons 1 completions (or vice versa) is about a whole minute.
As long as you don't wait longer than weapons 1 to get armor 1 (because armor 1 is incredible given its cost) you'll be just fine.
In terms of NS:C - I always go weapons 1 -> shotgun with my first two upgrades, because no level of armor is going to save you if you can't kill anything!
BUT
i think we al will get to understand this one, once we figure out the numbers
I prefer having armor first for those sneaky skulks that get real close, that extra bite can make alot of difference. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you have to assume that. Most pub players that I have run into cannot aim very well, so they need medspam to take down 1 skulk. Armor 1 makes it so those people will the slow reflexes have a chance. Weapon 1 drops the ammount to kill a skulk by 1 LMG bullet, weeeeeee.
The armor grants you an extra bite, however lvl1 depletes after getting bitten twice.
If they are good they will hit with a high % of bullets so the small number of bullets difference from weapons 1 won't matter.
It doesn't matter how good a player is the skulks are going to get to them sooner or later, and when they do that extra bite from armor 1 means they have a chance to dodge and fight back, a few extra seconds to get a health pack, extra time for a wingman to shoot the skulk.
With the introduction of focus this debate becomes even easier, there is no contest. Focus kills 0 armor marine in 1 bite, even the best marine in the galaxy has no chance to fight back if he dies before he knows he is under attack.
A1-W3-A3 is no longer the SET upgrade order, though most will still usually go for A1 first. The order might now be A1-W1-A2-W2-A3-W3... or it could be A1-W1-W2-A2-A3-W3... or you could go A3-W3... all kinds of possibilities are viable now.
In terms of 2.01, a1,w3,a3 is the way to go, however. think about this- live 50% longer, or deal 10% more? Well, providing the enemy skulks arn't... mentally challenged, the 50% life gain is worth it. Weapons 1 first is only worth it if... you make a contract telling the skulks to rush you in long hallways rather than intelligantly engage you. And even then, you're saving 1 bullet. Woopie.
Armor 1 is essential to marines because of focus. (It's essential anyways, actually.) Most aliens don't use sensory as the first chamber, even with focus. But, if they do, the extra bite will compensate for focus, and since they can't get that one hit kill, and they refire slowly, u can kill them that much easier. Helps against cloakers too. Plus, with knockback in 3.0 again, if u jump when u get bitten, the skulk is farther away, and it gives you another chance to shoot it up.
I've heard lots of reason why weap 1 is better than armor 1, but they're all bullcrap. (No offense.) One bullet won't save ur life 99% of the time, and the 50% more lifespan your marines will have is much more useful.
I don't know how it works, but I do know that it was changed to make welding more effective than medpacks, so it is supposed to run out quickly.
To sum up that other thread: get both armor 1 and weapons 1! The first levels of both are cheap, fast to research, and most importantly of all permanant. The time between armor 1 and weapons 1 completions (or vice versa) is about a whole minute.
As long as you don't wait longer than weapons 1 to get armor 1 (because armor 1 is incredible given its cost) you'll be just fine.
In terms of NS:C - I always go weapons 1 -> shotgun with my first two upgrades, because no level of armor is going to save you if you can't kill anything! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It actually can be proven statistically.
Here it is:
A weapons upgrade first means you kill the skulk faster by 1 bullet, right? Why do you need this? One bullet is NOTHING in the long run of killing skulks, whereas one bite more to kill a marine is a ton.
On top of this, lets say you are attacked by a skulk. In the time it takes for a skulk to get out 3 bites over 2, you will DEAL MORE DAMAGE to the skulk because you live longer. The extra time you get before the 3rd bite lands is enough to land 3-5 more bullets (not sure exactly how much). Therefore armor is actually more powerful in terms of killing power, as you are able to dish out more damage.
I do not know the terms usually used by the forums or technical terms used across all HL mods of this type, so let me define armor absorbtion and armor negation.
Armor absorbtion is the amount of damage that goes to your armor instead of your HP. It is usually represented as a % of the damage. More damage now goes to the armor that before went to the HP. In previous version of NS, many marines would still die with armor. This gave the comm an insentive to medpack them (remeber, a skulk bites 75, a medpack only heals 50, so if a marine has no armor left, and gets bitten once by a skulk, he is down to 25 HP, and if the comm only give him one medpack, to bring it up to 75, one bite will STILL kill him.) So now, medpack spamming was nerfed: you need more medpacks to keep marines out of armor alive. Armor is now worn away VERY quickly by skulk bites, so you lose ALL your armor before your HP (like a heavy usually does).
Armor negation is the amount of damage ignored due to armor. Armor negation in this mod now appears to be appromxiately 50% of absorbtion. Meaning whatever was absorbed, 50% damages your armor 50% of it is completely ignored [negated] (meaning it just disappears).
I believe this is how the system works, although I can't of hte negation Percentage, that is just my estimate.
As a result in this system change: you must have noted that marine armors are now significant less (25 at level0, 45 at level 1)
why w3 before a3?
marines with ha/jp/hmg/gl/shotty should be very effective against smaller aliens, so they shouldn't be taking huge amounts of damage, so armor 3 is a secondary concern.
against an onos? gore owns light marines regardless of their armor level, and stomp + devour negates any armor upgrade for heavies. The best hope for dealing with onos is level 3 weapons, when you have level 3 weapons a group of light marines can gang up and have a good chance to kill an onos. With low level weapons you will just get picked apart 1 by 1 because you cant kill tougher aliens fast enough.
I will have to learn more about the new armor though, maybe next time I comm I will try a1, w1, a3, w3