Focus Discussion
Roger_Dodger
Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14392Members
Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14392Members
<div class="IPBDescription">PT's, Vets and consties plz</div> From alot of what i have been reading about for focus and three things seem to stand out, the fact that it seems a bit more nub unfriendly having to learn timing etc for weapons not to mention fade slashing aswell...
The fact that focus doesnt essentially achieve what it was meant to be able to do, that was to make the SC a more attacking chamber rather than the current defensive role it plays (yes i know there are exceptions but im talking generally for breaking a 2 hive lockdown).
And finally the problem of it losing its use near end game.
Now my question is, how is it holding up compared to DC? With ease of use, the fact that DC's are cheaper to put down than SC's as DC networks arent required.
K now my suggestion is what if focus was made so that it could be fired like normal in a fighting situation, but only once you connect with your attack does the cooldown timer kick in? This would make melee fighting more forgiving, not to mention the fact that gorge spit would be very restricted with focus, lerk fly by's would be easier and fades slashing mid air wouldnt be such a killer especially for nubbehs.
The unblancing factor is early game bite would be much stronger as missing would be infrequent then?
I would suggest a longer cooldown timer but its the fact that the first bite is the killer. How about if the faster bites used at the start to try to connect used up alot more energy than usual until you connect with a bite will the cooldown kick in?
The benefits of my suggestion are ease of use for new players as they would get the benefit of the upgrade without feeling lost because they just can't get the crucial hit in.
And it would help late game and for hive lockdowns as fast quick attacks on hive lockdowns and late game rines will be easier to achieve as timing wont become a large part of it.
Finally i would like to say I HAVE NOT PLAYED V3.0 and that all my information comes from my own personal opinions, opinions of forum users and basic 3.0 facts from PT's, Vets and Consties.
Feel free to point out im wrong or that the upgrade works fine as is and it fits the situations no problems (this includes ease of use for new players). I am bored and thought i would offer up some new topics other than whens 3.0 gonna be released.
I wanted this to be a discussion with PT's, Vets and Consties so i didnt want it to go in I&S if you feel it must be moved feel free but it seems PT's/V/C dont end up in I&S very often and I want people with contact to 3.0 to discuss. Members feel free to post but remember you dont have any more info than what we've been told.
- RD
The fact that focus doesnt essentially achieve what it was meant to be able to do, that was to make the SC a more attacking chamber rather than the current defensive role it plays (yes i know there are exceptions but im talking generally for breaking a 2 hive lockdown).
And finally the problem of it losing its use near end game.
Now my question is, how is it holding up compared to DC? With ease of use, the fact that DC's are cheaper to put down than SC's as DC networks arent required.
K now my suggestion is what if focus was made so that it could be fired like normal in a fighting situation, but only once you connect with your attack does the cooldown timer kick in? This would make melee fighting more forgiving, not to mention the fact that gorge spit would be very restricted with focus, lerk fly by's would be easier and fades slashing mid air wouldnt be such a killer especially for nubbehs.
The unblancing factor is early game bite would be much stronger as missing would be infrequent then?
I would suggest a longer cooldown timer but its the fact that the first bite is the killer. How about if the faster bites used at the start to try to connect used up alot more energy than usual until you connect with a bite will the cooldown kick in?
The benefits of my suggestion are ease of use for new players as they would get the benefit of the upgrade without feeling lost because they just can't get the crucial hit in.
And it would help late game and for hive lockdowns as fast quick attacks on hive lockdowns and late game rines will be easier to achieve as timing wont become a large part of it.
Finally i would like to say I HAVE NOT PLAYED V3.0 and that all my information comes from my own personal opinions, opinions of forum users and basic 3.0 facts from PT's, Vets and Consties.
Feel free to point out im wrong or that the upgrade works fine as is and it fits the situations no problems (this includes ease of use for new players). I am bored and thought i would offer up some new topics other than whens 3.0 gonna be released.
I wanted this to be a discussion with PT's, Vets and Consties so i didnt want it to go in I&S if you feel it must be moved feel free but it seems PT's/V/C dont end up in I&S very often and I want people with contact to 3.0 to discuss. Members feel free to post but remember you dont have any more info than what we've been told.
- RD
Comments
At level 3 it does double damage with a 66% reduction in speed(I think)
No matter where you are biting or who its that slow but that strong. Focus is terrific in regular ns, however in combat 1 skulk with focus can wait in marine spawn till they spawn and totally deicmate them before they can move(Assuming they do not have level 1 armor, with level 1 armor it takes 2 bites w/focus) I've suggested something similar to a cool down time, and whenever anyone suggests a change to focus we get flamed <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Personally I think it should be toned down for Combat and left alone as it currently is in NS classic.
If given a choice I'd take focus over carapace or regen.
Any other questions?
Any other questions? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So is there no chance of making it noob friendly? Or more importantly, PUB friendly?
I think anybody with a few skill would eventually get used to it, or simply ignore it <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
EDIT: typo
They shouldent adjust the game so its made for people who dont play it as its supposed to be played.
Its like if the VALVe-team would add a built-in aimbot in cs just because it would be more noob-friendly. Drop it.
They shouldent adjust the game so its made for people who dont play it as its supposed to be played.
Its like if the VALVe-team would add a built-in aimbot in cs just because it would be more noob-friendly. Drop it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For the sake and sanctity of this thread I will not respond in like terms. You are entitled to your own opinion.
But if you have no armour, it's still only two bites. And those two bites come in quick, and if the skulk has landed the first one, chances are you're dead anyway.
CWAG Does have a valid point about an early focus skulk dominating marines as they spawn, but that can be done with any lifeform, focus or not. That's a seperate point completely, trying to stop skulks from spawn camping the marines in combat. It's not focus' fault, there's got to be an incentive for the players NOT to do it.
As for build orders I still see a lot of defense first. Most games I'v played had Def, followed by a quick hive drop to get sensory next. Nothing is in stone however.
Another thing to keep in mind is that Consties and Vets play the game a little differently. Most of us are testing/breaking the game. It maybe that gameplay won't change at all in pubs if people believe that "Focus" is not for them. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I wouldn't expect big changes in the Pub scene in chamber placement. (You may see a lot more Lerks as they are a lot of fun to play.)
and how much damage does parasite do? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> (can you bite once, switch to para, and kill them?)
I think armor 1 without focused skulks takes two bites, and one para.
But that may be armor 2, I can't remember.
Focus is going to help me so much.
Normally I can get in at least one bite before I die, and before I have went into weakened groups of three marines or four, and got one hit kills on them all <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> (they had all been bitten once already)
Edit:
Does a focused lerk bite after a few seconds of sporing kill them? I don't know the damage amounts, so I have no idea, but it seems like if yu gas them as you get close, bite, and fly away, they should die from the gas.
And does focused onos kill any light marine in one hit?
and focused fade has got to be deadly... hit and run with one hit kills.
Focus is one upgrade I just can't wait for <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Focus Oni do not instagib LA for some reason. That really should be changed imo.
Any other questions? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So is there no chance of making it noob friendly? Or more importantly, PUB friendly? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Focus IS noob/pub friendly. Quite often pub/nubs tend to get the first bite in but not the second, and this is perfect for that.
I hated Focus at the Beginning, it seemed like a lame AWP for NS, but its okay, i dont use it, cause with lvl1 Armor it sucks, you need luck or a noob Enemy to get the second bite.
And a Focus Onos is very weak, i did one in Combat once, i couldnt kill one Rino <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I hated Focus at the Beginning, it seemed like a lame AWP for NS, but its okay, i dont use it, cause with lvl1 Armor it sucks, you need luck or a noob Enemy to get the second bite.
And a Focus Onos is very weak, i did one in Combat once, i couldnt kill one Rino <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are you talking about, Focus Onos dishes out 180dmg a whack.
That can take out most LA marine's in one flat hit!
Focus + Onos is the best thing you can get for Onos next to Carapace and Regeneration.
They shouldent adjust the game so its made for people who dont play it as its supposed to be played.
Its like if the VALVe-team would add a built-in aimbot in cs just because it would be more noob-friendly. Drop it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you believe clans just form out of nothing? If you do stop reading.
Clans are formed by pubbers who find the game fun. If it's not fun because they're not playing in a special way people simply won't continue to play and thus no clans will be formed. That's why a game with many different elements which can be played in many ways is more fun than a linnear game.
I love focus. It means people will drop sens early, so I can cloack early, and ambush marine after marine.
I devour them half the time, but its about 4-5 hits.
Also does the lack of the ability to kill buildings effectively effect res intake for a lifeform with focus as opposed to one without? Or does it even up with the fact focus aliens get kills more often?
- RD
Why?
First of all, it's great for Skulks and Lerks and Fades(gimp for Gorges and Onoses, IMHO) but it doesn't address the largest problem with sensory chambers in Classic. Sensories have been a skulk/gorge/lerk chamber since 2.0. The cloaking and now Focus are great for lower life forms, but once you get Fades and Onoses and suddenly find that you're without movements at hive 2(putting Ds off till hive 3 is still impossible) it loses its luster. Both Fades and Onoses, especially in their currently sorry state, rely on D and M upgrades. Focus is great for Fades but I don't think it's good enough to compensate for no Regen or Adrenaline, and most Onoses still take SoF which most definitely isn't worth the sacrifice. In general, Sensories are a decent if not superior choice in the beginning of the game, but if you can't skulkrush them to death early on or get all 3 hives you'll usually regret the choice later.
Also, Focus is one more thing which drives a big wedge between Combat and Classic balance, which causes balancing one(pretty much always Combat) to hurt the other(Classic). In Combat, Focus is an early upgrade choice for most anyone who intends to Bite/Swipe stuff. In Classic, Focus often never even becomes available during the game, and if it does then it's not as powerful(L1 and L3 armor much more common). It's not the biggest problem between the two versions but it's the only upgrade that really is that way.
Why? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You'll see.
I love focus. It means people will drop sens early, so I can cloack early, and ambush marine after marine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I haven't tried it, but from what I have heard, eventually it is beneficial for taking down buildings. Unless you have the adrenaline upgrade, you will run out of adrenaline taking down a building, which means your attacks are slower anyway. With focus, you will take longer to run out of adrenaline, and once you do, you will deal more damage in the exact same amount of time, since focus attacks use the same amount of adrenaline as a normal attack (right? If I am wrong about that, then simply disregard this post).
They shouldent adjust the game so its made for people who dont play it as its supposed to be played.
Its like if the VALVe-team would add a built-in aimbot in cs just because it would be more noob-friendly. Drop it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you believe clans just form out of nothing? If you do stop reading.
Clans are formed by pubbers who find the game fun. If it's not fun because they're not playing in a special way people simply won't continue to play and thus no clans will be formed. That's why a game with many different elements which can be played in many ways is more fun than a linnear game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you.
Oh and CWAG, you have a point, I usually get the first hit and miss the second, then have to whip around and get the third...
Why? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You'll see. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stop being a(n) (insert choice insult here) and tell him. It's no use you participating in the thread if you don't back up your statements.
Focus is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it can dominate early game in both combat and classic. To be honest, I feel it is more suited to classic than combat (without hambone mode) becasue once the marines start getting armour upgrades, it quickly loses it's potency. Then skulks just get cloaking or sof and change thier play tactics and carry on dominating. I hardly use it in combat because, while it may allow me to get the next few upgrades really quickly, it is a slower attack than without focus, so everything requiring more than one hit takes longer to die. With hambone mode (lose upgrades, respend points on respawn) it is userful because you can get focus, get a few more upgrade points then get rid of it once you are not getting the one hit kills anymore.
With being able to pick new upgrades when you want, it's possible to clear out a bunch of camping marines (Top of the tram in Daimos.. Grr) with cloakus, then prepare for a base assault with celerity/regen or something.