<!--QuoteBegin--Zek+Jan 4 2004, 07:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Jan 4 2004, 07:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't really understand the purpose of a "discussion" thread hosted in General, but I'll play along... I think Focus creates as many problems as it solves. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Umm... maybe the fact that it's called "General Discussion?" Where else is it supposed to go?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Focus IS noob/pub friendly. Quite often pub/nubs tend to get the first bite in but not the second, and this is perfect for that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
umm what are you thinking? thers always someone on the other side of the gun, in this case Bite. either way lets assume both guys are noobs, you say it helps the alien nub get his first and only accurate bite in and win.. is the marine not entitled to jack ****? which dictates what an even fight is? "first bite in but not the second" guess the rine noob uber noobed the noob alien right? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Z.X. Bogglesteinsky+Jan 5 2004, 05:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Z.X. Bogglesteinsky @ Jan 5 2004, 05:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> marines can get shotguns. they kill all skulks in one hit. Focus is the Alien shotgun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Which is true, but Shotties are buggy at times, and focus is useless once they get lvl1 armour. Personally i can kill marines faster without using focus.
Maybe we forget that marines have a range advantage.
Besides if the skulk gets to close the marine is most of the time already dead. I don't see how Focus helps or gives a disadvantage.
Either way, a marine should keep his distance and be alert. It will always be the inevitable that marines will die, wether 60 seconds into the game or 60 minutes.
<!--QuoteBegin--{TFF}Scout+Jan 5 2004, 05:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ({TFF}Scout @ Jan 5 2004, 05:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Focus IS noob/pub friendly. Quite often pub/nubs tend to get the first bite in but not the second, and this is perfect for that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
umm what are you thinking? thers always someone on the other side of the gun, in this case Bite. either way lets assume both guys are noobs, you say it helps the alien nub get his first and only accurate bite in and win.. is the marine not entitled to jack ****? which dictates what an even fight is? "first bite in but not the second" guess the rine noob uber noobed the noob alien right? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeh but its the pub/nub that has to get the timing right, with cloak they get a far better and nub friendly benefit. I feel it is the timing which is going to be the issue but as people have already pointed out that it will become a skill people need to learn and practise with.
So will that make the upgrade a strictly experienced player chosen upgrade that wont be chosen for mid to late stage games?
Marines don't have a range advantage with shotguns. At long range, it is about as useful as parasite. There are 17 pellets in a shotty, each dealing 10 damage. Nearly everyone of those pellets has got to hit a skulk to take it out in one shot. they spread far fast. At anything more than a couple of meters, you wold be better off with a LMG.
With the rest of the guns, marines have the range. Alines have got the speed to get rid of that range. Focus is the thing you use early game to make sure you didn't waste your time closing the gap.
<!--QuoteBegin--Z.X. Bogglesteinsky+Jan 5 2004, 04:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Z.X. Bogglesteinsky @ Jan 5 2004, 04:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Focus is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it can dominate early game in both combat and classic. To be honest, I feel it is more suited to classic than combat (without hambone mode) becasue once the marines start getting armour upgrades, it quickly loses it's potency. Then skulks just get cloaking or sof and change thier play tactics and carry on dominating. I hardly use it in combat because, while it may allow me to get the next few upgrades really quickly, it is a slower attack than without focus, so everything requiring more than one hit takes longer to die. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Did I not say that exact same thing in the 'Forced balance doesn't work' thread? Which you then proceeded to flame me about and say I knew nothing because I wasn't a vet?
Here we are:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So what does Flayra do to 'fix' the balance? Give sensory a great upgrade. Replace pheremones with a damage-increasnig attack that pretty much nerfs the alien when he faces anything that takes more then 2 bites to kill. (Think about it, reduced damage output over time due to reduced ROF means a non focus skulk can kill a level 3 armor marine faster then a focused one)
So what's this mean? This means that the build order will STILL be D - M - S. Except, like shotgun rushes, every few games will crop up a S first in an 'all or nothing' attack. I've read the testimonials about how focus completely DESTROYS early game marines, but I've not read anything that suggests it's even worth the time gestating to it in late game, which leads me to believe it's totally worthless. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A little less refined then what you said but essentially the same thing. And your well-thought-out reply:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What right does everybody else have to comment on 3.0? Absolutely b****r all! NS is a game created by 1 guy, released to the public for free. He can do what he bloody well likes with it. It's his game for pete's sake. If you don't like it, don't play it. Now maybe if you had had a hand in it's development, you may just be justified in saying "I don't think this is working" but, AFAIK, you are just some guy who d/l this game from fileplanet, found the forums and stated flaming the guy who created it. Sorry, but that's not right.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Becareful Super Teflon, I can imagine his response to this won't be good. Neither will most of the other people's responses in here. You are after all reviving a supposedly dead arguement.
After 3 pages its all been said. I'm adding my 2 Cents now though.
Focus = Good, once you practise with it. The Best thing about Focus is the fact that you get more of a chance to get that kill with less effort. You don't need to bounce around 6 times BHing around the marine trying to get 4 more bites. You Move in, Bite once and than Bite twice if the first isnt enough Of course once the Armor starts getting higher it loses its luster. Lerks are DEADLY with Focus now that the flight has been fixed so much. Swoop in BITE, flap away, Swoop in KILL! I must say I love Focus but I didn't always like it, it took a long tiome to get good at it for me and I am still not great.
Think of it as a FADE for every class. Ppl who are really good with the fade seem like they have been taken over by Hambone, Shampoo, and Romano when they use it. Focus is the same way. When you get good with it, I mean really good, you can PWN everyone!
Comments
Umm... maybe the fact that it's called "General Discussion?" Where else is it supposed to go?
umm what are you thinking? thers always someone on the other side of the gun, in this case Bite.
either way lets assume both guys are noobs, you say it helps the alien nub get his first and only accurate bite in and win..
is the marine not entitled to jack ****? which dictates what an even fight is? "first bite in but not the second"
guess the rine noob uber noobed the noob alien right? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Which is true, but Shotties are buggy at times, and focus is useless once they get lvl1 armour. Personally i can kill marines faster without using focus.
Besides if the skulk gets to close the marine is most of the time already dead. I don't see how Focus helps or gives a disadvantage.
Either way, a marine should keep his distance and be alert. It will always be the inevitable that marines will die, wether 60 seconds into the game or 60 minutes.
umm what are you thinking? thers always someone on the other side of the gun, in this case Bite.
either way lets assume both guys are noobs, you say it helps the alien nub get his first and only accurate bite in and win..
is the marine not entitled to jack ****? which dictates what an even fight is? "first bite in but not the second"
guess the rine noob uber noobed the noob alien right? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeh but its the pub/nub that has to get the timing right, with cloak they get a far better and nub friendly benefit. I feel it is the timing which is going to be the issue but as people have already pointed out that it will become a skill people need to learn and practise with.
So will that make the upgrade a strictly experienced player chosen upgrade that wont be chosen for mid to late stage games?
- RD
With the rest of the guns, marines have the range. Alines have got the speed to get rid of that range. Focus is the thing you use early game to make sure you didn't waste your time closing the gap.
Did I not say that exact same thing in the 'Forced balance doesn't work' thread? Which you then proceeded to flame me about and say I knew nothing because I wasn't a vet?
Here we are:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So what does Flayra do to 'fix' the balance? Give sensory a great upgrade. Replace pheremones with a damage-increasnig attack that pretty much nerfs the alien when he faces anything that takes more then 2 bites to kill. (Think about it, reduced damage output over time due to reduced ROF means a non focus skulk can kill a level 3 armor marine faster then a focused one)
So what's this mean? This means that the build order will STILL be D - M - S. Except, like shotgun rushes, every few games will crop up a S first in an 'all or nothing' attack. I've read the testimonials about how focus completely DESTROYS early game marines, but I've not read anything that suggests it's even worth the time gestating to it in late game, which leads me to believe it's totally worthless.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A little less refined then what you said but essentially the same thing. And your well-thought-out reply:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What right does everybody else have to comment on 3.0? Absolutely b****r all! NS is a game created by 1 guy, released to the public for free. He can do what he bloody well likes with it. It's his game for pete's sake. If you don't like it, don't play it. Now maybe if you had had a hand in it's development, you may just be justified in saying "I don't think this is working" but, AFAIK, you are just some guy who d/l this game from fileplanet, found the forums and stated flaming the guy who created it. Sorry, but that's not right.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm adding my 2 Cents now though.
Focus = Good, once you practise with it.
The Best thing about Focus is the fact that you get more of a chance to get that kill with less effort. You don't need to bounce around 6 times BHing around the marine trying to get 4 more bites. You Move in, Bite once and than Bite twice if the first isnt enough Of course once the Armor starts getting higher it loses its luster.
Lerks are DEADLY with Focus now that the flight has been fixed so much.
Swoop in BITE, flap away, Swoop in KILL!
I must say I love Focus but I didn't always like it, it took a long tiome to get good at it for me and I am still not great.
Think of it as a FADE for every class. Ppl who are really good with the fade seem like they have been taken over by Hambone, Shampoo, and Romano when they use it. Focus is the same way. When you get good with it, I mean really good, you can PWN everyone!