Commander mode thoughts

Scythe · September 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">Blown me away</div>I've been pondering Commander Mode (CM) a lot of late and I've come to realise that this has never been done in any game <b>ever</b>. This is breaking new ground the gaming industry. People may say "RTSs have been around for ages! You're a fool!" but not in this way. There is no interaction between you and your little blobs of pixels other than your mouse. There is no sense of kinsmanship with your troops, they obey your orders unflinchingly and if you slaughter hundreds of them they’ll keep on marching to their doom.

Never in any game has one person needed to gain the moral support of many others, no level of interaction between any two players has been so complex. The commander must not only have good tactics up his/her sleeve, but must also be a good leader of men/woman, be able to motivate and support their troops. You must maintain an aura of knowledge and confidence at all times.

In short, I hope to be commanding a fair bit in NS.

--Scythe--

Legionnaired · September 2002

And it took you this long to realize this? wow.

Yup, i'm looking forward to commanding a lot too.

F_o_RStorm · September 2002

Actually, me and PacMan (My older brother) Had thought of how cool it would be to combine an RTS, FPS, and MMORPG all in one game. Mind you, this was all about a year before we had even heard of NS. We had practically the same idea: That there would be a leader who commanded everyone else, who had a FPS view of the world. The leader would get them to assault dragons, build castles and whatnot, and they would get lvl ups killing stuff and such. Kudos to the NS people for actually making a similar idea into a game, though. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

Jops · September 2002

Actually the closest game I could ever think of that comes close to NS is the Dungeon Keeper series, but when you went first person in that game you were sourounded by mindless blobs (except when I played with my sis over the network)

Scythe · September 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Jops @ Sep. 29 2002,09:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Actually the closest game I could ever think of that comes close to NS is the Dungeon Keeper series, but when you went first person in that game you were sourounded by mindless blobs (except when I played with my sis over the network)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Ehh, if it had have been my sister, the mindless blob description would fit perfectly. She once put two CDs into her walkman unawares and was confused as to why it was playing music that wasn't on the CD she could see through the little window.

I think you totally misinterpreted me Jops, there are plenty of games you can get down and dirty with the troops, but none of which the troops have as many subtleties as humans do.

--Scythe--

Jops · September 2002

What other games are there that you can get down and dirty in it? Could you list off a few?

Scythe · September 2002

Battlezone 1 and 2
Dungeon Keeper 1 and 2
Evolva
Tribes 1 and 2 (ish, not as good implementation as NS)
That new one that I can't remember the name of.

And probably a few I've forgotton/never heard of.

--Scythe--

PseudoKnight · September 2002

Global Operations also had a sort of commander position, but still nothing to the extent of NS. (and it's a rare thing to actually see it used in the game)

HBNayr · September 2002

When I bought my force-feedback Sidewinder joystick from Microsoft, there was a RTS game from Microsoft bundled with it. You could order your troops around, and then take a FPS view from one of the troops and control them from there. There was a reason they were giving it away, though...it was fairly crap.

There was also a really sweet, underrated game about a year ago that let you order troops around like a RTS game, then hope into one of the vehicles in a FPS POV. I can't remember the name of it, but it had a ship (as in a water-bound ship) full of nanites, and ten or so soldiers you brought back to life through memory chips. Man, I wish I could remember the game. The demo was spectacular, and I played through a bit more at a friend's house. Can anyone else remember the game? Hostile Waters was the name, I think, emphasis on think.

-Ryan!

"Too often we...enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
-- John F. Kennedy

Miles_Teg · September 2002

Yeah this is really the first time where someone actually plays the game like an RTS and the units are in FPS. I mean tribes you could set waypoints and use the cameras, but NS has the added fact that the commader has to be aware of the logistics as well. This is going to be a great mod for organized play.

SNAFU · September 2002

Ahhhh... real simulated leadership. It is quite a concept; one which I will be most amused to see as I join my first server, and find that everyone wants to be the Commander, but nobody wants to follow orders. It will be amusing to behold; too many chiefs, and not enough indians.

I can already picture in my mind of how there shall be much bickering amongst the masses, as many Commanders come and go as they are elected, then dropped, as everyone realizes that Commanders are, indeed, the few and the proud. But they won't win popularity contests; "mobacracy" in a simulated environment...

Interesting indeed. I think I'll play aliens until they figure it out...

BTL · September 2002

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but <b>Team Fortess 2</b> from Valve was the first as far as I know to have a true commander mode. In TF2's case it was an actual class you could choose. There was only one commander per side as in NS. If anyone is curious: <a href="http://tf2.sierra.com/" target="_blank">TF2 Web Site.</a> <b>It has been in development for over 5 years!!</b> But there has been no updates on the site for almost 2 years.

Inexorable · September 2002

And you know what, TF2 will also probably be the last game with a commander view. I'ld say last game of all time, but I think DNF will beat it by a few eons.

BTL · September 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Inexorable @ Sep. 28 2002,21:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And you know what, TF2 will also probably be the last game with a commander view. I'ld say last game of all time, but I think DNF will beat it by a few eons.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Your right, we will never see TF2 anytime soon. No one knows what happened to it, Valve seems to have just forgotten about it.

loofbote · September 2002

Ive played Hostile waters:anteneaus rising, and It was pretty cool and fun but still no "finished" game has amounted to what this game will in with commander mode and REAL troops. Other games have similar but you are the commander then you take control of a guy but all the other guys are still the same but in NS you CANT force anyone to do something, unlike in other games. Thats what people are talking about, that all the people are real, the commander is real, and they all make their own desicions. (any remember starcraft you try to move a guy somewhere but theres 1 guy blokcing his way so he goes all the way around the map to reach it well people are smarter then that theyll just cuss and cuss until the person move(also knife them))

Flayra · September 2002

Yep, this was the reason to make NS. You're leading real people, and it's both a technical and a social role. The commander mode can be both a frustrating and exhilirating experience. I hope that the times that it's good will be so good as to make the overall experience enjoyable.

SuperSammo · September 2002

I agree... in the end its the commander and his tactics that really make up NS. I mean aliens and marines have been done 100 times before. However I also agree that at least for the first couple of rounds I will play aliens because the commander is likely to be inexperienced and sluggish, but then hey what else would you expect on a public server. Clan games are where NS is at and they will make counterstrike games look like an average game of checkers opposed to a great game of chess.

Bobs rule, Marines drool <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

SNAFU · September 2002

It would be nice if NS was the first gaming community ever to have at least half intelligible games on the majority of public servers. But that's up to the people that play it.

Hey, all of a sudden, I feel that maybe that training map should be left out, if only to keep away those laming SOB's from "Joe Blow's 'n Baths pubic server", since if we don't hand it to them on a silver platter, hopefully their low IQ's will ward them away from something so complex...

But I digress...

SuperSammo · September 2002

the only problem with that would be the sudden lack of interest in NS as people have no idea whats going on, which in turn would lead to less people playing, less servers and the mod would end up like Science and industry, great mod but unheard of and underplayed.

Venmoch · September 2002

There was a FPS with a hell of a lot of stratagy (althought no aliens) Good old Operation Flashpoint! Man that game rocked!

Necro · September 2002

ofp sucked. big time.

Sgt_X · September 2002

I think that it's so cool for a # of reasons. I mean firstly there's the fact that you actuly have to interact with your troops and gain their respect. But you also have the reverse, your troops can actuly report back to you and they have initiative. If they see a builder setting up an offence chamber near a base they're not going to wait for you to notice them fall under attack, they'll inform you (hopefuly) and then start shotting. Of coarse you could also have the problem of a full blown mutiny (a rare occasion I hope) but after you get down yelling profanities at your men for costing the game you can have a chuckle. Finaly you remember those conspiricy theorists saying that RTS games are really a plot to train a whole bunch of perfect commanders, NS could actuly do that, not only do you have to have strats and tactics, to be a good commander you'll have to have leadership skills to. In short NS CM r0x0r5 ur b0x0r5!

SentrySteve · September 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> ([F.o.R]Storm @ Sep. 28 2002,23:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Actually, me and PacMan (My older brother) Had thought of how cool it would be to combine an RTS, FPS, and MMORPG all in one game. Mind you, this was all about a year before we had even heard of NS. We had practically the same idea: That there would be a leader who commanded everyone else, who had a FPS view of the world. The leader would get them to assault dragons, build castles and whatnot, and they would get lvl ups killing stuff and such. Kudos to the NS people for actually making a similar idea into a game, though. <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Holy crap its storm! Storm pwns CS.

Annywayy - Tribes <i>sorta</i> has a commander mode. You cant give health/weapons but you can assign waypoints. Its just that no one ever listens :-/

Archimago · September 2002

Actually this idea of a commander controlling live people, having to earn their respect, ect. has been done once before. The game was called Allegiance, it was made by microsoft, and it never really became all that popular (space sims were kind of dieing at the time). Although it was a space combat sim as opposed to a FPS, the idea was almost exactly the same.

You had 1 commander who would order people around, had to build outposts at key places, collect rescources. It was a really cool game, its a shame it never got really popular.

Surge · September 2002

Umm.... I think you're forgetting Battlezone, Giants, and a couple other games...

Oh, and I think Allegiance never got popular because it was Pay2Play... I think.

Oh and Necro, I find it hard to deny facts. OFP was teh r0xx0r, and the reviews and populace say so.... unless you just <i>hate</i> FPS's and realistic games.

Necro · September 2002

btw ofp i didnt play a lot cause the gfx were just horrible i couldnt stand tme (geforce 1)

SNAFU · September 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Necro- @ Sep. 29 2002,14:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">btw ofp i didnt play a lot cause the gfx were just horrible i couldnt stand tme (geforce 1)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Then you should of upgraded or something. You missed out on a very good game. For shame Necro...

StormFist9016 · September 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Scythe @ Sep. 28 2002,23:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Battlezone 1 and 2
Dungeon Keeper 1 and 2
Evolva
Tribes 1 and 2 (ish, not as good implementation as NS)
That new one that I can't remember the name of.

And probably a few I've forgotton/never heard of.

--Scythe--</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Were you thinking of the new game savage? It doesnt look bad <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Sebly · September 2002

OFP rules and so does all it's addons! It's one the best FPS I've ever played and it will never be deleted from my HD <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> and Giants doesnt really have that much commanding I mean its pretty basic but it's a fun game I can't finish the last Sea Reaper level! They attack you real fast and I can't find enough smarties! <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

Scythe · September 2002

After I hit that "Add Reply" button I remembered allegiance but I didn't bother to edit it in. I downloaded the demo of that a while back and it looked kinda cool.

Operation Flashpoint was a very very fine game with an immersive storyline and great graphics. I loved it. You should really have another look at it Necro, it would be worth it.

--Scythe--

Silver_Fox · September 2002

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
but in NS you CANT force anyone to do something ...
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Say that to the people <b>I</b> command ...

<img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> <img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

Commander mode thoughts

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