Why Are The Aliens Always Nerfed?
EL_CHUPACABRA
Join Date: 2003-12-13 Member: 24324Members
Join Date: 2003-12-13 Member: 24324Members
In the new 3.0c..........
"O Lowered stomp stun duration from 2 seconds to 1 second"
Why? its perfect now, onos has "just" enough time to stomp and quickly swich to devour. Now using them together is nearly impossible, making devour almost useless for 95% of NS players. This just takes away more alien anti-HA power.
"O Reduced web potency by reducing min/max ensnare times from 4/10 to 2/5"
If so this needs to come back to 2nd hive and BB go to the lerk(so lerk can be a bomber maybe?)
This is just another example of how the aliens are continually made weaker and marines made stronger, <b>This is not the way to get balance!!!</b>
There are soooo many other things that can be done to balance the game other than nerfing aliens and helping the marines!!!!
Like for one making marines slightly more resistant to alien attacks at the higher armor levels, then add new HA and JP "seciallty suits. Then, you can get 4 different marine upgrades, regular HA and JP, and HA/GL and JP/GL. No longer having GL avalabe indvidually makes a Huge difference. Also, with specialty suits come different attributes. Regular HA and JP should come more resistant to bite, leap, slash, gore, and devour. And the HA/GL and JP/Gl should be more resistant to long range attacks. Blalancing this way tweeks the game instead of kicking it around.
Sorry for ranting but NS is a GREAT IDEA and I'm sick of good players leaving because of these reasons, please think more carefully in refining the game and don't just add/cut things without serious consideration first.
"O Lowered stomp stun duration from 2 seconds to 1 second"
Why? its perfect now, onos has "just" enough time to stomp and quickly swich to devour. Now using them together is nearly impossible, making devour almost useless for 95% of NS players. This just takes away more alien anti-HA power.
"O Reduced web potency by reducing min/max ensnare times from 4/10 to 2/5"
If so this needs to come back to 2nd hive and BB go to the lerk(so lerk can be a bomber maybe?)
This is just another example of how the aliens are continually made weaker and marines made stronger, <b>This is not the way to get balance!!!</b>
There are soooo many other things that can be done to balance the game other than nerfing aliens and helping the marines!!!!
Like for one making marines slightly more resistant to alien attacks at the higher armor levels, then add new HA and JP "seciallty suits. Then, you can get 4 different marine upgrades, regular HA and JP, and HA/GL and JP/GL. No longer having GL avalabe indvidually makes a Huge difference. Also, with specialty suits come different attributes. Regular HA and JP should come more resistant to bite, leap, slash, gore, and devour. And the HA/GL and JP/Gl should be more resistant to long range attacks. Blalancing this way tweeks the game instead of kicking it around.
Sorry for ranting but NS is a GREAT IDEA and I'm sick of good players leaving because of these reasons, please think more carefully in refining the game and don't just add/cut things without serious consideration first.
Comments
Of course, if you're alone, which you shouldn't be, you're in trouble if you stun someone.
and don't worry. Flayra has the things under control <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
you don't need to stomp to use devour. relax
Trust us: It will be balanced by the time its released.
As it stands if you have 2 good teams, the marines will win 90% of the time. Most of the time this is not so and it appears that the aliens always have the upper hand because that is where all the good players play to get away from the n00bs that usually go marines. But I am interested in the game being trully balanced and I have seen that bungled time and time again.
ns 2.1/3.0 went through a lot of changes, that's why there's no way you'll understand the balance changes happening today, until you actually play the game.
every change is done for a reason. and after all it's beta, that means it can change back before the game released, and again, you will never understand why before you actually play it.
Of course, if you're alone, which you shouldn't be, you're in trouble if you stun someone. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My question is: When and why the hell did aliens suddenly turn into the team that requires all the teamwork? 1.04 was marine teamwork alien solo and teamwork. It was always STRESSED that that was EXACTLY how Flayra wanted it.
2.0 Gave all these goofy-**** 'support' abilities to the aliens and screwed up the marines so they both required teamwork and could solo.
Now in 3.0 everything is getting nerfed, marines have grenades and catpacks, aliens are easier to hit and kill now, so it's Marine Solo / Teamwork and aliens NEED teammates all the time.
What a freaking load of ****.
For example, I have never understood the logic behind moving acid rocket from 2 to 4. Aliens alread had a ranged attack disadvantage. Now I heard it is proposed to <i>remove</i> spike from the lerk alltogether, this leaves only pathetic spit!!!
The lack of acid rocket force the relatively expensive fade to almost always have to use slash. To stay alive against HMG at say lvl2, the fade has to dodge 90% of the time verus attack, this is not effective at all.
/edit: the lerk has new flying system which makes him a long range weapon. Why do u guys need long range weapons anyways.
the addtion of onos 900/500 was due to a much more realistic hitbox, its not a bonus to the aliens, its compenstaion for the new hit box, the onos will probably die in about the same amount of time under fire as it does now.
Considering the onos is now 6x larger and easier to hit...
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/edit: the lerk has new flying system which makes him a long range weapon. Why do u guys need long range weapons anyways.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ever hear of those overpowered things called 'Level 3 upgrades'? Shotguns?
Yeah, that's the ticket...
Furthermore, does anyone in here have reliable records of the statistical changes of win-loss ratios throughout the betas? I'm not surprised.
What I'm getting at here - you are not the holder of the bright torch of knowledge, you merely have an opinion, as everyone of us. This doesn't mean that you have no right of voicing it, on the contrary, but it means that you should consider the possibility that your opinion isn't the correct one, especially if the only basis to it is your personal playing experience, which is bound to be biased, if only by the servers you play on.
So, please, no matter what side of the fence you are on, switch one gear down, read through the other sides arguments again, and consider them before telling everyone how wrong they are.
Furthermore, does anyone in here have reliable records of the statistical changes of win-loss ratios throughout the betas? I'm not surprised.
What I'm getting at here - you are not the holder of the bright torch of knowledge, you merely have an opinion, as everyone of us. This doesn't mean that you have no right of voicing it, on the contrary, but it means that you should consider the possibility that your opinion isn't the correct one, especially if the only basis to it is your personal playing experience, which is bound to be biased, if only by the servers you play on.
So, please, no matter what side of the fence you are on, switch one gear down, read through the other sides arguments again, and consider them before telling everyone how wrong they are. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nerfs or not, <b>no one</b> wants to have to re-learn how to play the game. If it isn't broken, why fix it? Webs are hive 3 DEFENSIVE measure. They SHOULD be overpowered. Nerfing it doesn't really solve anything except makes hive 3 even more underpowered then it already is. These bizarre nerfs just serve to irritate more then anything.
Also, instead of aliens being a mix of over/underpowered crap like the marines are, it seems for some reason an absolute priority to completely nerf-balance aliens FIRST, so that everything they have is weak on the same level, then completely ignore the various issues such as: Aliens have little to no counters to HA. (Webs... uh... onos (Both of which have been nerfed) and suicidal skulks en masse) They have no ranged attacks that are effective until end-game. Level 3 weapons completely overwhelm carapace (As in: Level 3 weapons vs. level 3 carapace means the alien still takes more damage then with level 0 upgrade and level 0 carapace). There's plenty of ways to fix the game that include such things as: Oh I don't know, making watered-down advanced weapons appear in the game earlier?
It's not a fraction, it's a range:
changed min/max (min slash max) time from 4/10 to 2/5 (four slash ten to two slash five).
What I would like is a thread or forum that explains the reasoning behind some of these changes and then let the players give input on it.
For instance I see no benifit to the stomp reduction time, but there must have been a reason to change it so what was the reason?
What I would like is a thread or forum that explains the reasoning behind some of these changes and then let the players give input on it.
For instance I see no benifit to the stomp reduction time, but there must have been a reason to change it so what was the reason? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know *WHY* stomp time was reduced (Too many whiney marines got their way, frankly), but 1 second isn't enough to devour a marine. A much better fix would have been to simply reduce stomp ROF. Stomp would be less spammy to use against groups of marines, and it would still be effective for a solonus. With the nerfed webs, they REALLY need to come back to hive 2. There's no sense in balancing what is meant to be unbalanced.
I dont know, this idea probably has a flaw in it somewhere, but I just dont think that acid rocket should be a third hive move. doesnt feel right.
I was just commenting on what someone said earlier in this topic about acid rocket shouldnt be a third hive ability, I was agreeing with him, and saying why, basically.
Please stop nerfing the aliens.
Thanks,
Bad HAL
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It is also great if you have skulks with you, because you stomp stomp, and they go in and destroy the marines. 2 seconds was way too long, 1 second seems realy short, but it gets the job done.
What I would like is a thread or forum that explains the reasoning behind some of these changes and then let the players give input on it.
For instance I see no benifit to the stomp reduction time, but there must have been a reason to change it so what was the reason? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe you don't fully grasp the concept of "playtesting." There are several ways to do playtesting and balancing. One way is to examine how often each side wins, when each side is populated by generally evenly-matched players skill-wise.
So you take the totality of abilities and powers for each side. For instance, a small subset of these for each side might be:
Marines - HA, HMG, motion-tracking, shared res, structure cost
Aliens - Stomp, umbra, hive-sight, skulk walking sound, hitbox
So if, say, Marines are winning 58.21% of the time, one of those abilities should be nerfed or tweaked to bring the win percentage down to 50%. So maybe they go about fixing this by making 4 of the structures cost 10% more. Or making HA walk slower by 7.5%. Or making res-for-kill 1 point less, maximum.
Or, say Aliens are winning 41.2% of the time. So maybe instead of making the marines less powerful, they enhance some alien abilities. Make stomp last longer, make umbra block 18.2% more bullets, or make the skulk's tail take locational double damage -- it doesn't matter, but the point is that they have a pool of attributes for each team to select from when making the game more even.
Without knowing the specific situation, I'm guessing that Aliens were winning a bit too much in the previous 3.0 beta patch. So the developers and playtesters probably isolated a few factors that were causing the skewed wins and tried to adjust them accordingly, which leads to.....
<b>MORE PLAYTESTING!</b>
See the pattern? You can't just say on general principle that team attributes X, Y, and Z are the holy grail of the team, untouchable by anyone. Because that's how games become unbalanced and stale. It's the willingness to fundamentally and subtley alter the game for balance's sake that makes NS so damn good.
Ever tried hitting a flying lerk with a shotty?
Ever tried hitting a flying lerk with a shotty? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It has spread, I'm a good shot, and lerks now have to fly straight at me. I can't say it'd be much harder then it is already. Furthermore, lerks are 1 evolution out of 5 with 4 weapons out of 20, considering they only had the relatively decent ranged attack, it's been removed and spores are useless against HA that leaves hive 3 acid rocket, a difficult to use, and ineffective weapon. So saying the lerk is the end-all solution against range is just stupid, because I'm not going to waste a 60 res fade to turn into a 30 res lerk so that I might kill A marine carrying a 10 res shotgun. The other way, a 10 res shotgun toting marine doesn't have to worry about anything, because every alien has to get within 5 feet of Ol' Painless whereupon he gives them a facefull of overpowered buckshot.
Trust us: It will be balanced by the time its released. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can't use the teamwork hax in 3.0, they removed the <b>wait;</b> command in macros....bwhahah I'm so funny.