Well, the one thing that the aliens both lack and have an advantage of is the fact they don't have a commander. In the majority of games I've played, the marines get totalled due to a poor team. If you have some guy bonking his head inside the vents as an alien, you can still pull together and completely forget him. (In fact, I've spent several games where I've heard nothing or seen no words from my fellow team mates as an alien. It sucked.) Marines have no such luck, most of the time. And I imagine most people are kind of sick of the solo work that the aliens end up doing. A guy goes onos and then goes off by himself, instead of making a teamed attack that is truly fierce. Flaya probably made the game so the aliens could go solo, and I imagine you still can with an onos if you try hard enough. But I also imagine he wanted the marines to have a fighting chance, and they end up getting waxed across the ground when they can't get organized. Some of these elements would be nice for the aliens to do, to have some kind of need for team work that is even a strand like what the marines are forced to have.
Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.... I honestly dont think the reasons the NS team is changing things in the game is because you say so... Sure the input helps the team know what the players think, but I really honestly dont believe they would change somthing if they didn't think it was beneficial.
You need to remember... the NS team PLAYS the game probably MORE than you do. <edit>So most likely they are changing things because they see it fit for gameplay. I really think there is a possibility that you will play NS 3.0 and say... heyyy, this is better. When you think about it, the change from NS 1.0 to 2.0 brought around a whole lot of gameplay changes, so I wasn't surprised when there were problems in balancing. Remember back to the days of 1.04.. the only thing that seemed to make the game unbalanced was too many gorges and the fade acid rocket? Well that was most likely because the NS team was .04 notches down the tweaking path. Right now we are looking at 2.<b>01</b>. Think about it <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> </edit>
Im getting really tired of all these people whining about NS 3.0 balance when they havent even played it yet. I dont know if you read my locked topic, but I hate when people do this.
<!--QuoteBegin--XeroSlayer+Dec 13 2003, 11:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XeroSlayer @ Dec 13 2003, 11:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Im getting really tired of all these people whining about NS 3.0 balance when they havent even played it yet. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> *glares at the flamers* <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Have faith my good friend.... have faith. I know for sure flay flay wont give in to the darkside, the release of the 3.0 shall be unaffected by teh flamers.
<!--QuoteBegin--XeroSlayer+Dec 13 2003, 09:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XeroSlayer @ Dec 13 2003, 09:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Im getting really tired of all these people whining about NS 3.0 balance when they havent even played it yet. I dont know if you read my locked topic, but I hate when people do this. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Is anyone FORCING you to read this thread? Didn't think so. K thx bai. If it irritates you so much...
<b>OMG DONT CLICK THE LINK!</b> Just like that, the topics you don't like YOU DON'T END UP READING! HOLY GOD IMAGINE THAT!
<!--QuoteBegin--Ashaman Joe+Dec 13 2003, 04:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ashaman Joe @ Dec 13 2003, 04:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Or try using Teamwork Hax v 3.0c: Stomp the HA and let <b>your teammates</b> kill them.
Trust us: It will be balanced by the time its released. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> From my glorious memories as an Onos on 2.x pertaining to teamwork.
This one is set in ns_tanith, trying to finish the game. Marines are holed up at marine start and doing the regular spam. I run in, hearing pfft, pfft behind me from the heal-spraying gorge. I stomp rines, manage to notice an expensive weapon, devour the marine. Eeep, HP is dropping fast, because the heal-spray from the gorge is a drop in the ocean when it comes to off-setting level 3 HMG's and other weapons, even with regen. Stomp again, turn towards the other rine entrance and run out. Aaaah! Another Oni on the way in, where's the other door? Frantically turning, running towards the exit. Jump over the gorge, damn, I'm actually going to make it out this time.... And suddenly the sound of a xenociding skulk comes from in front of me. he runs into my hitbox, the 3 ton Onos stops dead in its tracks and is promptly killed. Go teamwork!
And I've lost count of how many times I've died because there's been another Oni just behind me rushing forward. 2+ marines in a hallway = twice the firepower. 2+ Oni in a hallway = lining up for the slaughter.
Compared to the marines it is, at best, difficult to have any proper teamwork. Marines need teamwork killing aliens? They all aim and shoot in the same direction, problem solved. Aliens want teamwork between different evolutions? Oftentimes it'll cause more problems than it solves.
Teamwork for marines is easy. Teamwork for aliens is akward.
Where was your lerk? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh.. nevermind, umbra doesn't work in 2.0x. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--EL CHUPACABRA+Dec 13 2003, 09:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EL CHUPACABRA @ Dec 13 2003, 09:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have not made my reasons for this thread clear enough, this is just the latest of many changes that favor marines in the game more than anything.
As it stands if you have 2 good teams, the marines will win 90% of the time. Most of the time this is not so and it appears that the aliens always have the upper hand because that is where all the good players play to get away from the n00bs that usually go marines. But I am interested in the game being trully balanced and I have seen that bungled time and time again. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Maybe the point in weakening stun is that they want to weaken stun? Aliens ARE overpowered in 2.01.
In 2.x, it takes less than a second to stun then devour. If you're too far, stomp again until you get close. Lowering stomp duration is a great change imo.
uranium, I disagree that aliens are supposed to lack teamwork. Both teams should require teamwork - they just have different types. Marines stick in groups and follow orders. Aliens can work well alone AND work well together. After all, what's the point of the 2.01 lerk - it's definitely not a solo-er.
The stomp change is good. Lots of people think stomp is too annoying (compared to its fun level), and the same thing applies with lerks. It doesn't really affect stomp that much. Stomp allows the onos to get to the enemy. By the time stomp wears off, the onos is too close.
However, I do agree that aliens need more counters to HA, electricity, and IMO lerks aren't good enough at killing JPs. Still, features that are more annoying than fun have to ditched or revised. Balance may be important, but so is gameplay.
Aside from my earlier post, my general knowledge of imbalancing is when two forces have too great of powers. There then becomes a very thin line to mediate them both. If you want to have a better balance between the two, remove the huge gap between the powers.
It's a lot more complicated than balance. Everything also must be diverse and provide fun in some way. Sides (e.g. marine), ability and ability usage (e.g. catalysts not being used), and tech trees all have to be <i>balanced, diverse, and fun (i.e. dynamic gameplay, fun abilities, strategic depth)</i>.
<!--QuoteBegin--Tresth+Dec 14 2003, 08:53 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tresth @ Dec 14 2003, 08:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In 2.x, it takes less than a second to stun then devour. If you're too far, stomp again until you get close. Lowering stomp duration is a great change imo. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is very related to what I wanted to say. To me, one of the few good onos in public servers(not that I ever get to be one nowadays...), this stomp reduction will have no effect whatsoever on my devouring. It will, however, reduce the teamwork capability to scrap, unless you have skulks patrolling you or riding on your back. So I don't see it as a nerf to my onos, I see it as a nerf to my teammates. Oh well.
It's like there are no mid tiers. Marines go from beeing owned in half a sec to uber cow killers that can easily take an ono 1 on 1. Doesn't play right <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Then again, it's beta so who am i to give my opinion.
<!--QuoteBegin--lagger+Dec 14 2003, 02:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lagger @ Dec 14 2003, 02:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Maybe the point in weakening stun is that they want to weaken stun? Aliens ARE overpowered in 2.01. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm all for nerfing stun, but I think the duration of stun is good. What really needs to be nerfed is the bloody long range of stun, its annoying when you get stunned from the other side of the room.
Still, I'm willing to wait until 3.0 is released before I hand out judgement.
The aliens are always nerfed because Flayra's dad was killed twenty years ago by a skulk. That's why he's so damn bitter!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Extreme wrote: If the aliens suck, then the marines usually win, and vise versa.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Isn't that what balance is all about? The better team winning, regardless of being kharaa or TSA?
The Aliens have been in no way Nerfed. Certain abilities have been weakened, While other aspects have been strengthened. The worst that will happen is that you might have to change your strategy somewhat, and If thats too much effort, then just dont download 3.0, stick with 2.01 and be happy.
I believe that in 2.0 the marines were given too much dependency on automated defences (ie aim bot turrets <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->), inpenetrable heavy armour (with immunity to spore) and electrified turrets and res towers. Now it seems this trend is being reinforced by making aliens almost completely melee style attacks, forcing aliens to try to attack the marine's turret farms with melee, and making HA trains even more rediculously overpowered by reducing stomp. I had my doubts when 2.0 was in beta (from the changelogs) and they were confirmed when it was released (aliens were severely overpowered). 2.0 changed the style of play from using tactics and strategy to quick hive lockdowns and irritating spore spam and bilebombing. It appears this trend is being continued in 3.0.
<!--QuoteBegin--Edgecrusher+Dec 14 2003, 10:53 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Edgecrusher @ Dec 14 2003, 10:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I had my doubts when 2.0 was in beta (from the changelogs) and they were confirmed when it was released (aliens were severely underpowered). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Of course, thats the reason why aliens pwned in pubs and clan matches. It makes so much sense now!
<!--QuoteBegin--Umbraed Monkey+Dec 14 2003, 10:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Dec 14 2003, 10:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Edgecrusher+Dec 14 2003, 10:53 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Edgecrusher @ Dec 14 2003, 10:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I had my doubts when 2.0 was in beta (from the changelogs) and they were confirmed when it was released (aliens were severely underpowered). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Of course, thats the reason why aliens pwned in pubs and clan matches. It makes so much sense now! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Apologies, that typo has been corrected now.
<!--QuoteBegin--EL CHUPACABRA+Dec 13 2003, 09:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EL CHUPACABRA @ Dec 13 2003, 09:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In the new 3.0c..........
"O Lowered stomp stun duration from 2 seconds to 1 second"
Why? its perfect now, onos has "just" enough time to stomp and quickly swich to devour. Now using them together is nearly impossible, making devour almost useless for 95% of NS players. This just takes away more alien anti-HA power.
"O Reduced web potency by reducing min/max ensnare times from 4/10 to 2/5"
If so this needs to come back to 2nd hive and BB go to the lerk(so lerk can be a bomber maybe?)
This is just another example of how the aliens are continually made weaker and marines made stronger, <b>This is not the way to get balance!!!</b>
There are soooo many other things that can be done to balance the game other than nerfing aliens and helping the marines!!!!
Like for one making marines slightly more resistant to alien attacks at the higher armor levels, then add new HA and JP "seciallty suits. Then, you can get 4 different marine upgrades, regular HA and JP, and HA/GL and JP/GL. No longer having GL avalabe indvidually makes a Huge difference. Also, with specialty suits come different attributes. Regular HA and JP should come more resistant to bite, leap, slash, gore, and devour. And the HA/GL and JP/Gl should be more resistant to long range attacks. Blalancing this way tweeks the game instead of kicking it around.
Sorry for ranting but NS is a GREAT IDEA and I'm sick of good players leaving because of these reasons, please think more carefully in refining the game and don't just add/cut things without serious consideration first. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Tards like you annoy me, you come along after playing NS for 2 seconds and moan about changes that are made saying they are effectivly rubbish while you come up with bone head ideads of your own that you think are great.
First off aliens aren't always the ones to get nerfed in the early versions it was always the marines because they were to powerful.
Second stomp IS LAME as it is at the moment anyone who has see 1 onos spamming stomp all over a HA train will understand what I mean taking the stun time down to 1 second is a welcome change.
Thirdly not allowing people to have a GL unless they have a JP or HA? <==== class idea stupid! Making HA and JP more resistant to attack <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> well, HA is already more resistant to attack because it has more ARMOUR and so is a JP because it increases your manuverability.
The game in my opinion is evenly matched right now (from when I play, I win as marine 50% of the time). They shortened stun, but uped the hp. They corrected hitbox, they gave umbra. The list goes on. Every nerf has a counter. It sounds like it will be as evenly matched as it is now.
Moral of the story: s7fu untill you play 3.0 for 2 weeks, then see what you think. When I saw the change list when 2.0 came out, I was like... omg this is so g4y. After I played it I loved it, and realized it is balanced.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Tards like you annoy me, you come along after playing NS for 2 seconds and moan about changes that are made saying they are effectivly rubbish while you come up with bone head ideads of your own that you think are great.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have been playing NS since the introduction of 1.04 and every thing you said I have considered. So what if 5 HA's are stuned for 2 sec, that onos has 1 chance to take out 1 and retreat or hope he's skilled enough to keep all five pinned down. One is going to get free and chase him off, don't **** about stomp because it annoys you. HOWEVER, I think that stomp does have too much range, if it needs to be nerfed any the range is what should be changed. But lowering the duration will make devour almost useless(some will still be able to use it but for the people that have poorer PCs or just aren't that good it will be useless).
Secondly, regaurdless of who we think gets nerfed more I think that aliens have always had a disadvantage and to see a nerf like this to the primary anti-HA attack (stomp/devour) is outragous.
Finally my armor suit idea was very seriously thought through before I posted it. I hope the poeple reading this forum will give it more thought than just seeing that I am a new member and by that right I an a noob that knows nothing. I think my idea would help diversify marine stratagies by needing to specifically plot who can do what. I would prefer this over the move up and siege it plan.
<!--QuoteBegin--EL CHUPACABRA+Dec 14 2003, 02:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EL CHUPACABRA @ Dec 14 2003, 02:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Finally my armor suit idea was very seriously thought through before I posted it. I hope the poeple reading this forum will give it more thought than just seeing that I am a new member and by that right I an a noob that knows nothing. I think my idea would help diversify marine stratagies by needing to specifically plot who can do what. I would prefer this over the move up and siege it plan. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You can have your HA/JP once i get my blinking onos <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Maybe as an alien you can vote for some type of higher being, or leader? like, you can click some button on the command menu, the scoreboard pops up, and you click who you think should be the leader. it says on everyone else's screen that a vote is going on, and they vote as well. the winner is then told that he has won, and he has a choice to become a leader. what a leader would do, I do not know, but even if it was just a word, and did nothing, if someone was ranked leader, that person would be motivated to start directing his team. and also, since the aliens VOTED for the best one for leader, they would proudly follow his orders and probably fight a little harder when they see him around. maybe he looks different in all forms....a little tweak to show that he is the leader. Maybe the leader could be stronger and faster than all the rest, but if this was true, then he would have to prove himself in someway before he can evolve into the leader's form again. Ex: the leader is commanding his aliens for a rush, and leads it himself, to motivate his teammates to push harder, and dies in the attempt. he respawns as a normal skulk, and although he is still leader to the players, he has to stay alive for a certain amoutn of time, or kill a certain amount of enemies, and then it would flash on the screen that he is eligable for leadership again, and it would flash the same on everyone else's screen. they would then vote whether he should lead again, and if so, he immediately goes into an egg and evolves to the leader form. I dont know, but even without him being stronger or faster or anything, if someone was considered a leader, pubs would have more teamwork in aliens.
<!--QuoteBegin--SjN+Dec 13 2003, 04:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SjN @ Dec 13 2003, 04:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--EL CHUPACABRA+Dec 13 2003, 04:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EL CHUPACABRA @ Dec 13 2003, 04:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Stun by it self is fine as you have pointed out, but as I said it kills the use for devour for 95% of NS players thus weakaning aliens by giving less anti-HA support <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> you don't need to stomp to use devour. relax <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> riiigh...
<!--QuoteBegin--EL CHUPACABRA+Dec 14 2003, 02:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EL CHUPACABRA @ Dec 14 2003, 02:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Tards like you annoy me, you come along after playing NS for 2 seconds and moan about changes that are made saying they are effectivly rubbish while you come up with bone head ideads of your own that you think are great.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have been playing NS since the introduction of 1.04 and every thing you said I have considered. So what if 5 HA's are stuned for 2 sec, that onos has 1 chance to take out 1 and retreat or hope he's skilled enough to keep all five pinned down. One is going to get free and chase him off, don't **** about stomp because it annoys you. HOWEVER, I think that stomp does have too much range, if it needs to be nerfed any the range is what should be changed. But lowering the duration will make devour almost useless(some will still be able to use it but for the people that have poorer PCs or just aren't that good it will be useless).
Secondly, regaurdless of who we think gets nerfed more I think that aliens have always had a disadvantage and to see a nerf like this to the primary anti-HA attack (stomp/devour) is outragous.
Finally my armor suit idea was very seriously thought through before I posted it. I hope the poeple reading this forum will give it more thought than just seeing that I am a new member and by that right I an a noob that knows nothing. I think my idea would help diversify marine stratagies by needing to specifically plot who can do what. I would prefer this over the move up and siege it plan. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Since I play marine mostly my views are biased, but nonetheless I see the other side of things. What I see is an onos come and stun practically our whole team. He then devours one. He stuns again. Kills one. Stuns again, then runs, and while he's running away he stuns a few more times. I agree that the range should be nerfed, but they didn't, and instead nerfed the time. Onos still can spam it (as far as I'm aware of) so they time shouldn't really matter.
Edit: Forgot to mention the first onos was doing that all by himself. Add a gorge, lerk and xeno or fade. GG.
Comments
You need to remember... the NS team PLAYS the game probably MORE than you do.
<edit>So most likely they are changing things because they see it fit for gameplay. I really think there is a possibility that you will play NS 3.0 and say... heyyy, this is better. When you think about it, the change from NS 1.0 to 2.0 brought around a whole lot of gameplay changes, so I wasn't surprised when there were problems in balancing. Remember back to the days of 1.04.. the only thing that seemed to make the game unbalanced was too many gorges and the fade acid rocket? Well that was most likely because the NS team was .04 notches down the tweaking path. Right now we are looking at 2.<b>01</b>. Think about it <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> </edit>
*glares at the flamers* <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Have faith my good friend.... have faith.
I know for sure flay flay wont give in to the darkside, the release of the 3.0 shall be unaffected by teh flamers.
<!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo--> = flamers
Is anyone FORCING you to read this thread? Didn't think so. K thx bai. If it irritates you so much...
<b>OMG DONT CLICK THE LINK!</b> Just like that, the topics you don't like YOU DON'T END UP READING! HOLY GOD IMAGINE THAT!
Trust us: It will be balanced by the time its released. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From my glorious memories as an Onos on 2.x pertaining to teamwork.
This one is set in ns_tanith, trying to finish the game. Marines are holed up at marine start and doing the regular spam. I run in, hearing pfft, pfft behind me from the heal-spraying gorge. I stomp rines, manage to notice an expensive weapon, devour the marine. Eeep, HP is dropping fast, because the heal-spray from the gorge is a drop in the ocean when it comes to off-setting level 3 HMG's and other weapons, even with regen. Stomp again, turn towards the other rine entrance and run out. Aaaah! Another Oni on the way in, where's the other door? Frantically turning, running towards the exit. Jump over the gorge, damn, I'm actually going to make it out this time.... And suddenly the sound of a xenociding skulk comes from in front of me. he runs into my hitbox, the 3 ton Onos stops dead in its tracks and is promptly killed. Go teamwork!
And I've lost count of how many times I've died because there's been another Oni just behind me rushing forward. 2+ marines in a hallway = twice the firepower. 2+ Oni in a hallway = lining up for the slaughter.
Compared to the marines it is, at best, difficult to have any proper teamwork. Marines need teamwork killing aliens? They all aim and shoot in the same direction, problem solved. Aliens want teamwork between different evolutions? Oftentimes it'll cause more problems than it solves.
Teamwork for marines is easy. Teamwork for aliens is akward.
Oh.. nevermind, umbra doesn't work in 2.0x. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
As it stands if you have 2 good teams, the marines will win 90% of the time. Most of the time this is not so and it appears that the aliens always have the upper hand because that is where all the good players play to get away from the n00bs that usually go marines. But I am interested in the game being trully balanced and I have seen that bungled time and time again. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe the point in weakening stun is that they want to weaken stun? Aliens ARE overpowered in 2.01.
Lowering stomp duration is a great change imo.
The stomp change is good. Lots of people think stomp is too annoying (compared to its fun level), and the same thing applies with lerks. It doesn't really affect stomp that much. Stomp allows the onos to get to the enemy. By the time stomp wears off, the onos is too close.
However, I do agree that aliens need more counters to HA, electricity, and IMO lerks aren't good enough at killing JPs. Still, features that are more annoying than fun have to ditched or revised. Balance may be important, but so is gameplay.
Make whatever you want out of that =)
Lowering stomp duration is a great change imo. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is very related to what I wanted to say.
To me, one of the few good onos in public servers(not that I ever get to be one nowadays...), this stomp reduction will have no effect whatsoever on my devouring. It will, however, reduce the teamwork capability to scrap, unless you have skulks patrolling you or riding on your back. So I don't see it as a nerf to my onos, I see it as a nerf to my teammates. Oh well.
It's like there are no mid tiers.
Marines go from beeing owned in half a sec to uber cow killers that can easily take an ono 1 on 1.
Doesn't play right <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Then again, it's beta so who am i to give my opinion.
I'm all for nerfing stun, but I think the duration of stun is good. What really needs to be nerfed is the bloody long range of stun, its annoying when you get stunned from the other side of the room.
Still, I'm willing to wait until 3.0 is released before I hand out judgement.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Extreme wrote:
If the aliens suck, then the marines usually win, and vise versa.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Isn't that what balance is all about? The better team winning, regardless of being kharaa or TSA?
Of course, thats the reason why aliens pwned in pubs and clan matches. It makes so much sense now!
Of course, thats the reason why aliens pwned in pubs and clan matches. It makes so much sense now! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Apologies, that typo has been corrected now.
"O Lowered stomp stun duration from 2 seconds to 1 second"
Why? its perfect now, onos has "just" enough time to stomp and quickly swich to devour. Now using them together is nearly impossible, making devour almost useless for 95% of NS players. This just takes away more alien anti-HA power.
"O Reduced web potency by reducing min/max ensnare times from 4/10 to 2/5"
If so this needs to come back to 2nd hive and BB go to the lerk(so lerk can be a bomber maybe?)
This is just another example of how the aliens are continually made weaker and marines made stronger, <b>This is not the way to get balance!!!</b>
There are soooo many other things that can be done to balance the game other than nerfing aliens and helping the marines!!!!
Like for one making marines slightly more resistant to alien attacks at the higher armor levels, then add new HA and JP "seciallty suits. Then, you can get 4 different marine upgrades, regular HA and JP, and HA/GL and JP/GL. No longer having GL avalabe indvidually makes a Huge difference. Also, with specialty suits come different attributes. Regular HA and JP should come more resistant to bite, leap, slash, gore, and devour. And the HA/GL and JP/Gl should be more resistant to long range attacks. Blalancing this way tweeks the game instead of kicking it around.
Sorry for ranting but NS is a GREAT IDEA and I'm sick of good players leaving because of these reasons, please think more carefully in refining the game and don't just add/cut things without serious consideration first. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tards like you annoy me, you come along after playing NS for 2 seconds and moan about changes that are made saying they are effectivly rubbish while you come up with bone head ideads of your own that you think are great.
First off aliens aren't always the ones to get nerfed in the early versions it was always the marines because they were to powerful.
Second stomp IS LAME as it is at the moment anyone who has see 1 onos spamming stomp all over a HA train will understand what I mean taking the stun time down to 1 second is a welcome change.
Thirdly not allowing people to have a GL unless they have a JP or HA? <==== class idea stupid! Making HA and JP more resistant to attack <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> well, HA is already more resistant to attack because it has more ARMOUR and so is a JP because it increases your manuverability.
never heard this before! is it true?
Moral of the story: s7fu untill you play 3.0 for 2 weeks, then see what you think. When I saw the change list when 2.0 came out, I was like... omg this is so g4y. After I played it I loved it, and realized it is balanced.
Edited like 23525 times because I can't type.
I have been playing NS since the introduction of 1.04 and every thing you said I have considered. So what if 5 HA's are stuned for 2 sec, that onos has 1 chance to take out 1 and retreat or hope he's skilled enough to keep all five pinned down. One is going to get free and chase him off, don't **** about stomp because it annoys you. HOWEVER, I think that stomp does have too much range, if it needs to be nerfed any the range is what should be changed. But lowering the duration will make devour almost useless(some will still be able to use it but for the people that have poorer PCs or just aren't that good it will be useless).
Secondly, regaurdless of who we think gets nerfed more I think that aliens have always had a disadvantage and to see a nerf like this to the primary anti-HA attack (stomp/devour) is outragous.
Finally my armor suit idea was very seriously thought through before I posted it. I hope the poeple reading this forum will give it more thought than just seeing that I am a new member and by that right I an a noob that knows nothing. I think my idea would help diversify marine stratagies by needing to specifically plot who can do what. I would prefer this over the move up and siege it plan.
You can have your HA/JP once i get my blinking onos <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
EDIT: <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> typos
you don't need to stomp to use devour. relax <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
riiigh...
I have been playing NS since the introduction of 1.04 and every thing you said I have considered. So what if 5 HA's are stuned for 2 sec, that onos has 1 chance to take out 1 and retreat or hope he's skilled enough to keep all five pinned down. One is going to get free and chase him off, don't **** about stomp because it annoys you. HOWEVER, I think that stomp does have too much range, if it needs to be nerfed any the range is what should be changed. But lowering the duration will make devour almost useless(some will still be able to use it but for the people that have poorer PCs or just aren't that good it will be useless).
Secondly, regaurdless of who we think gets nerfed more I think that aliens have always had a disadvantage and to see a nerf like this to the primary anti-HA attack (stomp/devour) is outragous.
Finally my armor suit idea was very seriously thought through before I posted it. I hope the poeple reading this forum will give it more thought than just seeing that I am a new member and by that right I an a noob that knows nothing. I think my idea would help diversify marine stratagies by needing to specifically plot who can do what. I would prefer this over the move up and siege it plan. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since I play marine mostly my views are biased, but nonetheless I see the other side of things. What I see is an onos come and stun practically our whole team. He then devours one. He stuns again. Kills one. Stuns again, then runs, and while he's running away he stuns a few more times. I agree that the range should be nerfed, but they didn't, and instead nerfed the time. Onos still can spam it (as far as I'm aware of) so they time shouldn't really matter.
Edit: Forgot to mention the first onos was doing that all by himself. Add a gorge, lerk and xeno or fade. GG.