Lets see, the most obvious, is there can only be ONE commander for marines. On aliens, every team member can become a gorge at once, without any ill effect, as in 1.x, more gorges meant less res income per gorge. In 2.0, being the only one able to drop strucutures, and taking advantage of it, by dropping whatever you please, (the point of this thread.......) is considered bad manners, and CAN get you banned from the server. If pretty much everyone agrees that consulting your team about what should be dropped is mandatory, then the gorge is merely a tool of the team, not the leader of the team. If the gorge drops DCs and everyone agreed on it, then the gorge can't be blamed if the team loses because that chamber was dropped. The commander of the marines doesn't have to ask his team what needs to be done. Thats not the point of being the commander. The commander is supposed to know what needs to be done, and is the only person who can drop the structures needed to do it. Every marine on the team can't decide to put down defenses wherever they want, unlike the aliens. They can merely suggest it to the commander, and if he sees fit, he'll do so. This is not the case with any one alien on the team.
There is not a need to ask if it's ok to drop offense chambers or "more" of the upgrade chamber that has already been chosen at any place on the map. The only things the gorge is in serious charge of is dropping the hive, and dropping the upgrade chambers for any hive. You are not being a good teamplayer if you just drop a hive, or drop some chamber that you see fit. Dropping some upgrade chamber you want is a big no no, but dropping a hive can be an even bigger one. On top of asking what chamber your team wants, you should also ask which hive to drop next. You don't want to drop the hive furthest from the one you have unless there is no other choice, as in the marines have the closest hive locked down. Even then you shouldn't just drop the hive anyway, your team might want to reclaim the closest hive.
1.) True
2.) F A L S E
3.) Yes, and No. Both can assist in saving an RT, but neither can really do it alone.
4.) Yes on the commander, no on the gorge. A gorge can drop whatever he wants there, but if any other alien on the team wants to come and spam crap around whatever you already placed, theres nothing you can do about it but ask him not to. Another marine can't come and do as he pleases to add to more defenses where the commander dropped them, he can only make suggestions.
Let me explain that my argument is not so much that the gorge is just like the comm but moreso that he is similiar in enough aspects that he can control the flow of the game. You said yourself no one questions the comm because he knows what needs to be done. That meaning that if he wants JP/SG instead of HA/HMG then he gets it regardless if his team wants it or not. He won't get in trouble for this because that's the way things are. My argument is why is it not like that for the gorge?
It's like this: A good comm might ask what his team wants so that they can be most effective. A good gorge might ask as well what can help his team most. As has been argued, any chamber first is pretty much okay, although personally I like MC first. (what the hell will a skulk do with D??? MAYBE one extra kill? please.) I've seen games where someone has said "I can gorge and drop SC ok?" And everyone says NO! So he says "Fine then gorge and drop what you want yourself." I like those people. If I want to use my res, I should put what I want. If you don't like it, gorge yourself. Aliens are not so much a team aspect as marines are, although teamwork will save the game if need be.
I just dont understand where the stereotype came from that the gorge is the b!tch of the team. No one would EVER say that about a commander.
Well the thing is, the commander is team leader, the gorge is not. Both have similar abilities, but one of them does not tell the team what to do. IMO a commander that asks what his team wants to do is nice sometimes, but it also makes me feel uncomfortable. The commander is supposed to be reassuring, and at least SOUND <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> like he knows what he's doing and and what he plans to do. It's not up to the gorge to direct teamates to places, but like any other alien, request assistance, or tell people the marines are up to something at point "x".
[I've seen games where someone has said "I can gorge and drop SC ok?" And everyone says NO! So he says "Fine then gorge and drop what you want yourself." I like those people. If I want to use my res, I should put what I want. If you don't like it, gorge yourself. Aliens are not so much a team aspect as marines are, although teamwork will save the game if need be. ]
This statement really saddens me. Somebody not wanting to spend their res for the good of the team is not only chilidish, but shows that person doesn't have much of an interest in helping his/her team win either. Even the res hoarding bastid, in their own messed up little way, is in their mind doing it because they want to kill marines for the good of the team. Thats 100 times better than, "I can't have what I want, then I'll save all my res for myself" state of mind. If you want to spend your res, you can put what you want. But something thats going to affect the entire team, as in upgrade chambers or a hive, does not fall into that category. You can drop all the resource towers, offences chambers and "MORE" of the upgrade chambers already dropped all you want. I honestly hope I never have to play with the kind of person who won't spend their res for the team solely because they can't have the upgrade chamber they want. . . .
[I just dont understand where the stereotype came from that the gorge is the b!tch of the team. No one would EVER say that about a commander.]
Sorry, didn't see this until I submitted my post. As far as that statement goes, I don't understand either, in fact, I don't think anyone considers the gorge that, and no, nobody would ever say that about the commander and don't. Neither do they say that about the gorge.
i agree with that.. everybody wants to evolve as fast as possible.. wasnt ns to be meant to be to have a flexible,everytime different gaming experience? wasnt it meant to be winable in many different ways? ok.. hardcore evolvers,and researchers have already a fixed procedure to play this game,its linear,and always the same. its almost a law to build the technology tree and chambers in this given order, because the teams are not flexible enough to master new tactics in new situations... ns is played just offensive.. no defensive tacics are required or tolerated.. attack is the best defense.. have it to be that way? did flayra meant this game to be playd like that.... ns is such a complex game,with so many abilitys for every species , but why is ns gettin to that linear gameplay it got today? this is a question is buggin me for a long time now. the only thing that differs is the location where the buildings are located.. thats the only aspect that makes the gameplay a lil bit different at the moment..
aaarrhh.. nm
why not implement a gorge build vote menu for the first chamber he drops?
build sensory: 1: no 2: no way 3: ban this nooblet 4: change to marines
Well, I agree that both teams are set in their ways about what needs to be done to win, as in the tech tree and all that stuff. But, I don't think it's because people are unable to try new things, or adapt. People join servers and want to have a fun game. For me, a fun game is winning and losing. But some people join, and by god they want to win. So, they do things to their best knowledge of a sure win. I still see commanders trying new things even though they probably came to win. JP/HMG rush in 1.04 is a perfect example. If it wins, it wins, lets do it every game, and that state of mind ended up being standard strategy in games. It wasn't the best strat, and certainly wasn't always the funnest for either team, but it won, and thats what counted for most people.
Having somebody just up and decide for you what chamber your team will be stuck with for more that likely 5 to 6 minutes at the most, which in that time the game could be lost, isn't fun. Theres a simple remedy for the entire purpose of this thread. Ask your team. If the person who was banned, in the opening post of this thread, had made sure what chamber people wanted, he would not have been banned. He may have not agreed with that decision, but like I've stated before, this game isn't about any one person on either team. It's about every player in the server. Everyone comes to have fun, and this situation of getting a chamber nobody really wanted except maybe one or two people, ruins many peoples fun. Please people, just consult your team before dropping chambers, it's as simple as that.
Hi again. It seems very few people read the original intent of the post. Which is on the attitude towards sensory tactics / people getting blacklisted.
Viewing some of the insults and argumentive tones in this thread (I'm not surprised with), I'd like to reorient towards a couple focus points:
--> Team communication Yes, ask your team - if no one responds, build what you think works. If they complain, you can easily mention that no one communicated with you.
If the general consensus leans towards one tower, go ahead and build it (even if it is the same thing every time - NS 3.0 is coming out which will probably give way to new chains). If you build something else, then I believe the team has a right to be angry at you.
I know team communication is something always pounded on, but it's only pounded on since it's so integral.
Additionally : No one can communicate if they can't see past their own tactics, ego, and goals.
<rant> You can ask on any server I play on that I am an advocate of SC first. I love SC, DC is for wussies! And indeed I agree fully that overreacting to such things is purely infantile. So you try a round with SC, so you try a different 'rine strategy, so you try an odd relocation: WHO CARES?! I'd rather have a hard defeat than an easy win. It's always..ALWAYS the same game. Rines have their standard relocs, aliens have their chamber orders... Try something different for once, you lose? SO WHAT Better next game..as that's what it is..A GAME! </rant>
Bad admins or whoever or whatnot even if it's their server or something it's a game let it go lol.You get to come back next round and try again to beat whatever team with whatever.Things get messed up yes that's a part of life.What I have seen read and did it's not a life and death situation it's just a "game" I live with whatever goes on and personally I don't care what chamber someone puts down cause I know I could always try and get them the next round.Another thing I learned from years of playing and real life is "TRUST" and "FAITH" that the person doing what their doing knows and understands what their doing even at certain costs it's a learning experience.
I'm sorry, but sensory is very viable first. on ns_hera the entire marine team relocated to Hera, we got sensory, sneaked up on them and completely wiped them out.
Dont go calling it not effective. It works, it just requires a little co-operation and some thinking.
<!--QuoteBegin--Firedragon+Dec 4 2003, 11:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firedragon @ Dec 4 2003, 11:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> onemore thing lol "90% thinking 10%doing" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Your head is your best weapon, in NS or real life. Use it or lose it!
Defense Chamber: Protects the investment of higher lifeforms by letting them live longer. Ensures that the higher lifeforms stays by the frontlines instead of having to depend on gorges and hives to heal. Allows skulks to more effectively protect an area with DC's because they stay alive longer. Excellent at basebreaking when you can build a DC farm within healing range of marine base. Allows OC barricades to live longer. Caraphase upgrade is partially negated by upgrading rine guns. Regen, which is the prefered upgrade, stays potent through the entire game.
Movement Chambers: Instant travel between two hives (of little or no value with only one hive). Increased movement rates lets you close the gap between marines faster. Silence allows you to attack unnoticed. Increased adrenaline for the evolutions which needs that. More damage per second lets you kill marines and structures faster. No marine counter.
Sensory chambers: marine motion tracking let's you see where marines are heading. Cloaking allows you to stay hidden and get the first attack free. Cloaking is hard countered by placing observatories, scanning and having rines move in large, but loose groups.
Now. Defense helps large evolutions a ton. As does movement. Cloaking does next to nothing to help large evolutions. only SoF is worth it for them since they can see if the group is too large, but even then, it doesn't help them in the actual attack like defense and movement does.
So. Sensory might help you some before marines are established, but both defense and movement does the same and they doesn't stop to work as soon as the comm gets up observatories if he knows what he's doing.
Further. Sensory makes aliens aliens have to run back to the hive. Movement also makes them do that, but it gives you a speed boost making it superior in the respect of keeping aliens by the front lines when compared to SC.
In a nutshell... Sensory isn't nearly as good as the two other towers and it can almost completely be negated by marine technology, so unless the marines are a bunch of muppets, you'll have a hard time winning with it. And if marines are a bunch of muppets, teams are probably uneven and aliens will win no matter what they do.
As for the comm gorge thing:
Teams are asymmetrical. The gorge is a pure builder class and lacks the commanders clarity of vision and means of commanding to be able to prepare and execute any major strategy. On top of that, the fact that there can and will be multiple gorges only further shows why your argument is flawed. The gorge has very little to do with the actual attacks of the aliens unless it's a battle gorge, and even then he's bound to the whims of the ones he's healing. The comm is there to command the team. The gorge is there to serve the team.
<!--QuoteBegin--K'Ragg+Dec 4 2003, 12:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (K'Ragg @ Dec 4 2003, 12:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In a nutshell... Sensory isn't nearly as good as the two other towers and it can almost completely be negated by marine technology, so unless the marines are a bunch of muppets, you'll have a hard time winning with it. And if marines are a bunch of muppets, teams are probably uneven and aliens will win no matter what they do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->I think you just hit the nail on the head, K'Ragg. The SC is a <i>weak</i> first chamber. It's getting better (focus) but it is too easily countered with an obs. Hmmmm...
<b><span style='color:yellow'>DING!</span></b> Idea alert!
Have SCs be stronger than an obs. If a Kharra is in range of both an SC and an observatory, the SC overpowers the obs and the kharra stays cloaked.
Having sensory chambers negate the observatory would be bad. If you built a sensory chamber in their base they would lose, every time.
I agree admins need to lighten up on the situation. I think sensory chamber is a decent first choice, but I also understand where the admins are coming from. Somebody drops sensory chambers, ok we'll deal with it. No big deal. But when somebody joins and does this for the umpteenth time that day, and doesn't bother asking what chamber to drop, I can honestly understand the administrator snapping and kicking and or banning the guy. Asking one time, not getting any responses and dropping what you want is not being fair to the team. If you ask like 5 times and nobody says anything, then fine, drop it. At the very least you should ask a few times, somebody will see it, and if they do and don't say anything, nuts to them, they are getting sensories.
<!--QuoteBegin--Zek+Dec 3 2003, 11:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Dec 3 2003, 11:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Dropping a chamber that no one else on the team wants can ruin everyone's game but yours. It's extremely selfish and I don't see any problem with people being banned for it. Maybe next time they'll <i>ask</i> the team. As for the admin talking about all the other servers, sure it's excessive, but that's why you just have to find a server that has decent admins on it and regular there. Admins can make or break an NS server. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> @ZEK Thats Non-sense!
Placing a SC isn't goinbg to ruin the game for ANYONE! Its the bad attitudes of everyone that cause the game to be ruin when they see a SC first.
LEARN to adapt and play the game, all these SUCKY CRY WIMPS who get **** off when they see a SC sould go to hell and die!
I love placing the SC first because it makes the game a bit different (im talking 2.1, not 3.0) I forget who said it, but someone has it in their sig.
"Maybe we should change the slogun of Natural Selection from 'Its time to Evolve' to 'Its time to addapt'."
I think all these jerk offs who are willing to BAN someone over a SC need to GROW the eff UP!
The reasons I never ever will like sensory until 3.0 focus (even then...)
1) Scent Of Fear can be useful in later stages of the game. I, however, never find any use whatsoever for it in early game, because early-game marines are more focused on res nodes. You already know where they're going and where they're coming from. It's not too useful.
2) Cloaking is countered by sensor scans, which are FREE (Which is a load of ****, might I add). Furthermore, you can't even use cloaking around their base.
3) Same thing with sensory chamber passive ability: Easilly countered.
4) You are gimping onos and fade so you can have fun as a skulk. Sorry, it's time to EVOLVE, not 'OMG I R LIEK TEH L33txx0r! SKULK I R GUNNNA WIN TEH MACHT!' Until sensory is more viable for late-game lifeforms, never ever will I condone it being dropped at ANYTHING but hive 3.
SC seems perfectly viable for me. Of all the games Ive played (VERY MANY) SC as the first chamber has had the highest success rate (win/loss outcome) of any chamber. I would guess about approximatly10%-15% higher success rate compared to DC's and MC's. I have also noticed that many marines have little experiance dealing with sensory when used properly, and will often panic or turtle up because they dont know what to do. This holds true for many players I would consider "experianced" or "uber Eleete" or whatever. It also makes gorging really easy becasue they can never find you. I gorg all the time, and Ive probably only been successfully hunted down while cloaked 3-5 times ever.
I personnally consider SC to be unbalanced compaired to the other chambers. As a marine I have alot of trouble countering Sensory, partly because I play marine only maybe 5% of the time and have less experiance.
SENSORY USED PROPERLY: skulks obtain cloaking by upgrading it or from nearby SC's. <span style='color:orange'>THEY DO NOT ATTACK</span>. They camp in groups of 2-5 players outside the marine base and ambush anyone who trys to leave. They typically wait for their target to pass by before attacking from the rear. As a variation, the skulks could camp ALL the nearby res nodes and ambush from there. For this to work it is best for skulks to time their attack after the com has dropped buildings because: A) Distracts marines, marines often assume they are safe in that room now that they think they have it. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> B) About 1/2 the Marines are now humping the buildings to build them, effectively disarmed, distracted, and stationary targets. C) After the marines die, you can level the buildings and screw the Marines out of more res. Meanwhile, the are about 1-3 gorgies running like hell all over the map capping everything. At the same time 1-3 gorgs are at the front (ambush points) helping to fortify them with SC, later DC and MC, and offering heals so that the front doesn't weaken. eventaully you will have the upper hand res wise and will be able to evolve into bigger baddies and level their main.
Ive seen this tactic fail, maybe 2 or 3 times, although I can only remember it failing once ever. It failed because the skulks got eager and left the chokepoints/ambush points to attack their main, which was all turtled up, got owned, and marines counter attacked now that the path was clear.
BTW, Ive seen this tactic used successfully approximately 10-15 times, mostly on pubs. The marine base is typically all turtled out and will be hard to level when you begin to make your attacks later in the game.
ALSO, a big hint: when your cloaked, dont hide on the floor. In my experiance, most marines "spray and pray" the <span style='color:yellow'>floor</span> looking for cloaked aleins, if you a skulk, hang out on the walls or ceiling. That tactic has saved me so many times and fooled so many Marines it baffles the **** out of me!
SC = Great for all life-forms, but especially to skulks. Good for holding areas. DC= Biggest benefit: regen, the best counter to eRT's, and in the beginning the only one.
So, like stated many times before; take SC as first chamber only if you believe to your skills. Apparently most don't. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> I guess that is why there is so much whining about it -bad players...
I tend to do the unexpected, so I managed one time to gather the whole team around me and we all went to the marine start... I plopped a SC outside in the very first minute. The marines got crippled BADLY, because they were expecting DC's. By the time they got an obs up and running, we had DC's and a few fades/onos/lerks. And I'd rather be capable to predict a battle instead of having fast regenaration you know.
Anyway, I hate all those people out there that can't live without their union-sausage DC. It shows that they have A LOT to learn about effectif startegies.
<!--QuoteBegin--Norml E. High+Dec 4 2003, 12:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Norml E. High @ Dec 4 2003, 12:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Having sensory chambers negate the observatory would be bad. If you built a sensory chamber in their base they would lose, every time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just scan the base and find the SC. If the comm can't do that, the marines have lost anyway.
Here is how I see the cloak/decloak powers rated: 1. (most powerful) Scan 2. Sensory chamber 3. Obs decloak field 4. Cloaking evolution 5. Marine's vision
In a competitive game, If the gorg takes the time to wait for a vote on what to do, the aliens will lose, He has to be just as quick getting upgrades as the marines. peroid
Anyone who whines about the chamber thats put up first just needs to shush.
All chambers are competitive, I've never lost a game cause we "started with the wrong chamber"
with sensory, you can have a cloaked WoL that the marines fall prey to, and any number of other treats, it can be incredibly useful
motion is awesome cause it allows early mobility
d is good for healing properties
this has been beated like a dead horse... stop it... jeez its rediculous to ban someoen for dropping the wrong chamber, <b>if its THAT important, make sure you SAY something, cause its safe to assume that within the first 30 seconds of a game, the gorg is gonna drop a chamber.</b>
now, if he IS told what to drop, and he drops something else, ban him
<!--QuoteBegin--Ulatoh+Dec 4 2003, 03:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ulatoh @ Dec 4 2003, 03:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> motion is awesome cause it allows early mobility <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> AND with slience, ninja skulks will mop the floor with marines.
I have one thing to say for this: If you complain about a sensory chamber, you apparently don't have the skill to use it. They are just as viable as the other 2, but apparently thinking is a rarity in the pub world.
<!--QuoteBegin--boooger+Dec 4 2003, 03:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (boooger @ Dec 4 2003, 03:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> They are just as viable as the other 2 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not as a second hive chamber, though--I believe everyone will agree on that.
<!--QuoteBegin--boooger+Dec 4 2003, 05:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (boooger @ Dec 4 2003, 05:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have one thing to say for this: If you complain about a sensory chamber, you apparently don't have the skill to use it. They are just as viable as the other 2, but apparently thinking is a rarity in the pub world. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you need to look up some of my older posts. I used to love sensory first. But that was back when marines was playing 1.04 style and they hadn't discovered how potent their counters are against it. Now, sensory means the comm grabs both hives and puts an obs in each and aliens are SoL.
For sensory to work as first hive, you *need* to lock marines down. If marines gets past your outposts, and are allowed to build their own outposts or electrify nodes, you have a *huge* problem.
<!--QuoteBegin--AJ53+Dec 4 2003, 09:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AJ53 @ Dec 4 2003, 09:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I dunno, going motion first then taking sense is good- scilence+cloak=NINJA <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm curious. You have sens+motion. Rines have relocated to the last hive and has obs of course. How are you planning to win?
i am ganna have to agree with all the pro sc people, tho i don't care at all witch order it is laid in at all. every chamber with one other is good if you work it right, you just need to know how to work it
Comments
There is not a need to ask if it's ok to drop offense chambers or "more" of the upgrade chamber that has already been chosen at any place on the map. The only things the gorge is in serious charge of is dropping the hive, and dropping the upgrade chambers for any hive. You are not being a good teamplayer if you just drop a hive, or drop some chamber that you see fit. Dropping some upgrade chamber you want is a big no no, but dropping a hive can be an even bigger one. On top of asking what chamber your team wants, you should also ask which hive to drop next. You don't want to drop the hive furthest from the one you have unless there is no other choice, as in the marines have the closest hive locked down. Even then you shouldn't just drop the hive anyway, your team might want to reclaim the closest hive.
1.) True
2.) F A L S E
3.) Yes, and No. Both can assist in saving an RT, but neither can really do it alone.
4.) Yes on the commander, no on the gorge. A gorge can drop whatever he wants there, but if any other alien on the team wants to come and spam crap around whatever you already placed, theres nothing you can do about it but ask him not to. Another marine can't come and do as he pleases to add to more defenses where the commander dropped them, he can only make suggestions.
It's like this: A good comm might ask what his team wants so that they can be most effective. A good gorge might ask as well what can help his team most. As has been argued, any chamber first is pretty much okay, although personally I like MC first. (what the hell will a skulk do with D??? MAYBE one extra kill? please.) I've seen games where someone has said "I can gorge and drop SC ok?" And everyone says NO! So he says "Fine then gorge and drop what you want yourself." I like those people. If I want to use my res, I should put what I want. If you don't like it, gorge yourself. Aliens are not so much a team aspect as marines are, although teamwork will save the game if need be.
I just dont understand where the stereotype came from that the gorge is the b!tch of the team. No one would EVER say that about a commander.
[I've seen games where someone has said "I can gorge and drop SC ok?" And everyone says NO! So he says "Fine then gorge and drop what you want yourself." I like those people. If I want to use my res, I should put what I want. If you don't like it, gorge yourself. Aliens are not so much a team aspect as marines are, although teamwork will save the game if need be. ]
This statement really saddens me. Somebody not wanting to spend their res for the good of the team is not only chilidish, but shows that person doesn't have much of an interest in helping his/her team win either. Even the res hoarding bastid, in their own messed up little way, is in their mind doing it because they want to kill marines for the good of the team. Thats 100 times better than, "I can't have what I want, then I'll save all my res for myself" state of mind. If you want to spend your res, you can put what you want. But something thats going to affect the entire team, as in upgrade chambers or a hive, does not fall into that category. You can drop all the resource towers, offences chambers and "MORE" of the upgrade chambers already dropped all you want. I honestly hope I never have to play with the kind of person who won't spend their res for the team solely because they can't have the upgrade chamber they want. . . .
[I just dont understand where the stereotype came from that the gorge is the b!tch of the team. No one would EVER say that about a commander.]
Sorry, didn't see this until I submitted my post. As far as that statement goes, I don't understand either, in fact, I don't think anyone considers the gorge that, and no, nobody would ever say that about the commander and don't. Neither do they say that about the gorge.
i agree with that.. everybody wants to evolve as fast as possible.. wasnt ns to be meant to be to have a flexible,everytime different gaming experience? wasnt it meant to be winable in many different ways? ok.. hardcore evolvers,and researchers have already a fixed procedure to play this game,its linear,and always the same. its almost a law to build the technology tree and chambers in this given order, because the teams are not flexible enough to master new tactics in new situations...
ns is played just offensive.. no defensive tacics are required or tolerated.. attack is the best defense..
have it to be that way? did flayra meant this game to be playd like that.... ns is such a complex game,with so many abilitys for every species , but why is ns gettin to that linear gameplay it got today? this is a question is buggin me for a long time now. the only thing that differs is the location where the buildings are located.. thats the only aspect that makes the gameplay a lil bit different at the moment..
aaarrhh.. nm
why not implement a gorge build vote menu for the first chamber he drops?
build sensory:
1: no
2: no way
3: ban this nooblet
4: change to marines
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Having somebody just up and decide for you what chamber your team will be stuck with for more that likely 5 to 6 minutes at the most, which in that time the game could be lost, isn't fun. Theres a simple remedy for the entire purpose of this thread. Ask your team. If the person who was banned, in the opening post of this thread, had made sure what chamber people wanted, he would not have been banned. He may have not agreed with that decision, but like I've stated before, this game isn't about any one person on either team. It's about every player in the server. Everyone comes to have fun, and this situation of getting a chamber nobody really wanted except maybe one or two people, ruins many peoples fun. Please people, just consult your team before dropping chambers, it's as simple as that.
Viewing some of the insults and argumentive tones in this thread (I'm not surprised with), I'd like to reorient towards a couple focus points:
--> Team communication
Yes, ask your team - if no one responds, build what you think works. If they complain, you can easily mention that no one communicated with you.
If the general consensus leans towards one tower, go ahead and build it (even if it is the same thing every time - NS 3.0 is coming out which will probably give way to new chains). If you build something else, then I believe the team has a right to be angry at you.
I know team communication is something always pounded on, but it's only pounded on since it's so integral.
Additionally : No one can communicate if they can't see past their own tactics, ego, and goals.
You can ask on any server I play on that I am an advocate of SC first.
I love SC, DC is for wussies!
And indeed I agree fully that overreacting to such things is purely infantile.
So you try a round with SC, so you try a different 'rine strategy, so you try an odd relocation:
WHO CARES?!
I'd rather have a hard defeat than an easy win.
It's always..ALWAYS the same game.
Rines have their standard relocs, aliens have their chamber orders...
Try something different for once, you lose? SO WHAT
Better next game..as that's what it is..A GAME!
</rant>
But I agree fully!
ME!
Bad admins or whoever or whatnot even if it's their server or something it's a game let it go lol.You get to come back next round and try again to beat whatever team with whatever.Things get messed up yes that's a part of life.What I have seen read and did it's not a life and death situation it's just a "game" I live with whatever goes on and personally I don't care what chamber someone puts down cause I know I could always try and get them the next round.Another thing I learned from years of playing and real life is "TRUST" and "FAITH" that the person doing what their doing knows and understands what their doing even at certain costs it's a learning experience.
onemore thing lol "90% thinking 10%doing"
Dont go calling it not effective. It works, it just requires a little co-operation and some thinking.
Your head is your best weapon, in NS or real life. Use it or lose it!
Defense Chamber:
Protects the investment of higher lifeforms by letting them live longer.
Ensures that the higher lifeforms stays by the frontlines instead of having to depend on gorges and hives to heal.
Allows skulks to more effectively protect an area with DC's because they stay alive longer.
Excellent at basebreaking when you can build a DC farm within healing range of marine base.
Allows OC barricades to live longer.
Caraphase upgrade is partially negated by upgrading rine guns. Regen, which is the prefered upgrade, stays potent through the entire game.
Movement Chambers:
Instant travel between two hives (of little or no value with only one hive).
Increased movement rates lets you close the gap between marines faster.
Silence allows you to attack unnoticed.
Increased adrenaline for the evolutions which needs that.
More damage per second lets you kill marines and structures faster.
No marine counter.
Sensory chambers:
marine motion tracking let's you see where marines are heading.
Cloaking allows you to stay hidden and get the first attack free.
Cloaking is hard countered by placing observatories, scanning and having rines move in large, but loose groups.
Now. Defense helps large evolutions a ton. As does movement. Cloaking does next to nothing to help large evolutions. only SoF is worth it for them since they can see if the group is too large, but even then, it doesn't help them in the actual attack like defense and movement does.
So. Sensory might help you some before marines are established, but both defense and movement does the same and they doesn't stop to work as soon as the comm gets up observatories if he knows what he's doing.
Further. Sensory makes aliens aliens have to run back to the hive. Movement also makes them do that, but it gives you a speed boost making it superior in the respect of keeping aliens by the front lines when compared to SC.
In a nutshell... Sensory isn't nearly as good as the two other towers and it can almost completely be negated by marine technology, so unless the marines are a bunch of muppets, you'll have a hard time winning with it. And if marines are a bunch of muppets, teams are probably uneven and aliens will win no matter what they do.
As for the comm gorge thing:
Teams are asymmetrical. The gorge is a pure builder class and lacks the commanders clarity of vision and means of commanding to be able to prepare and execute any major strategy. On top of that, the fact that there can and will be multiple gorges only further shows why your argument is flawed. The gorge has very little to do with the actual attacks of the aliens unless it's a battle gorge, and even then he's bound to the whims of the ones he's healing. The comm is there to command the team. The gorge is there to serve the team.
<b><span style='color:yellow'>DING!</span></b> Idea alert!
Have SCs be stronger than an obs. If a Kharra is in range of both an SC and an observatory, the SC overpowers the obs and the kharra stays cloaked.
I agree admins need to lighten up on the situation. I think sensory chamber is a decent first choice, but I also understand where the admins are coming from. Somebody drops sensory chambers, ok we'll deal with it. No big deal. But when somebody joins and does this for the umpteenth time that day, and doesn't bother asking what chamber to drop, I can honestly understand the administrator snapping and kicking and or banning the guy. Asking one time, not getting any responses and dropping what you want is not being fair to the team. If you ask like 5 times and nobody says anything, then fine, drop it. At the very least you should ask a few times, somebody will see it, and if they do and don't say anything, nuts to them, they are getting sensories.
@ZEK
Thats Non-sense!
Placing a SC isn't goinbg to ruin the game for ANYONE!
Its the bad attitudes of everyone that cause the game to be ruin when they see a SC first.
LEARN to adapt and play the game, all these SUCKY CRY WIMPS who get **** off when they see a SC sould go to hell and die!
I love placing the SC first because it makes the game a bit different (im talking 2.1, not 3.0) I forget who said it, but someone has it in their sig.
"Maybe we should change the slogun of Natural Selection from 'Its time to Evolve' to 'Its time to addapt'."
I think all these jerk offs who are willing to BAN someone over a SC need to GROW the eff UP!
This makes me sick!
1) Scent Of Fear can be useful in later stages of the game. I, however, never find any use whatsoever for it in early game, because early-game marines are more focused on res nodes. You already know where they're going and where they're coming from. It's not too useful.
2) Cloaking is countered by sensor scans, which are FREE (Which is a load of ****, might I add). Furthermore, you can't even use cloaking around their base.
3) Same thing with sensory chamber passive ability: Easilly countered.
4) You are gimping onos and fade so you can have fun as a skulk. Sorry, it's time to EVOLVE, not 'OMG I R LIEK TEH L33txx0r! SKULK I R GUNNNA WIN TEH MACHT!' Until sensory is more viable for late-game lifeforms, never ever will I condone it being dropped at ANYTHING but hive 3.
I personnally consider SC to be unbalanced compaired to the other chambers. As a marine I have alot of trouble countering Sensory, partly because I play marine only maybe 5% of the time and have less experiance.
SENSORY USED PROPERLY: skulks obtain cloaking by upgrading it or from nearby SC's. <span style='color:orange'>THEY DO NOT ATTACK</span>. They camp in groups of 2-5 players outside the marine base and ambush anyone who trys to leave. They typically wait for their target to pass by before attacking from the rear. As a variation, the skulks could camp ALL the nearby res nodes and ambush from there. For this to work it is best for skulks to time their attack after the com has dropped buildings because:
A) Distracts marines, marines often assume they are safe in that room now that they think they have it. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
B) About 1/2 the Marines are now humping the buildings to build them, effectively disarmed, distracted, and stationary targets.
C) After the marines die, you can level the buildings and screw the Marines out of more res.
Meanwhile, the are about 1-3 gorgies running like hell all over the map capping everything. At the same time 1-3 gorgs are at the front (ambush points) helping to fortify them with SC, later DC and MC, and offering heals so that the front doesn't weaken.
eventaully you will have the upper hand res wise and will be able to evolve into bigger baddies and level their main.
Ive seen this tactic fail, maybe 2 or 3 times, although I can only remember it failing once ever. It failed because the skulks got eager and left the chokepoints/ambush points to attack their main, which was all turtled up, got owned, and marines counter attacked now that the path was clear.
BTW, Ive seen this tactic used successfully approximately 10-15 times, mostly on pubs.
The marine base is typically all turtled out and will be hard to level when you begin to make your attacks later in the game.
ALSO, a big hint: when your cloaked, dont hide on the floor. In my experiance, most marines "spray and pray" the <span style='color:yellow'>floor</span> looking for cloaked aleins, if you a skulk, hang out on the walls or ceiling. That tactic has saved me so many times and fooled so many Marines it baffles the **** out of me!
DC= Biggest benefit: regen, the best counter to eRT's, and in the beginning the only one.
So, like stated many times before; take SC as first chamber only if you believe to your skills. Apparently most don't. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> I guess that is why there is so much whining about it -bad players...
Anyway, I hate all those people out there that can't live without their union-sausage DC. It shows that they have A LOT to learn about effectif startegies.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just scan the base and find the SC. If the comm can't do that, the marines have lost anyway.
Here is how I see the cloak/decloak powers rated:
1. (most powerful) Scan
2. Sensory chamber
3. Obs decloak field
4. Cloaking evolution
5. Marine's vision
Anyone who whines about the chamber thats put up first just needs to shush.
All chambers are competitive, I've never lost a game cause we "started with the wrong chamber"
with sensory, you can have a cloaked WoL that the marines fall prey to, and any number of other treats, it can be incredibly useful
motion is awesome cause it allows early mobility
d is good for healing properties
this has been beated like a dead horse... stop it... jeez
its rediculous to ban someoen for dropping the wrong chamber, <b>if its THAT important, make sure you SAY something, cause its safe to assume that within the first 30 seconds of a game, the gorg is gonna drop a chamber.</b>
now, if he IS told what to drop, and he drops something else, ban him
But you really should ask your team before you drop something
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
AND with slience, ninja skulks will mop the floor with marines.
I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE COMPLAIN OF THAT THEM SORRY SUNS A ****
Not as a second hive chamber, though--I believe everyone will agree on that.
I think you need to look up some of my older posts. I used to love sensory first. But that was back when marines was playing 1.04 style and they hadn't discovered how potent their counters are against it. Now, sensory means the comm grabs both hives and puts an obs in each and aliens are SoL.
For sensory to work as first hive, you *need* to lock marines down. If marines gets past your outposts, and are allowed to build their own outposts or electrify nodes, you have a *huge* problem.
I'm curious. You have sens+motion. Rines have relocated to the last hive and has obs of course. How are you planning to win?
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
(me) (you)