The True Power Of Sensory:
curlydave
Join Date: 2003-10-21 Member: 21855Members
Join Date: 2003-10-21 Member: 21855Members
<div class="IPBDescription">When the team respects it</div> For the first time, I played a game on hera where the team respected sensory chambers as a first choice. Someone dropped one, and the rest of the team (myself included) was happy, as opposed to ****. This happened on the Lunixmonster server, which I now love as a result!
My god, from that point on, the marines were dead. When one person knows how to use sensory, the marines are in trouble, but when the whole team does, they're in deep deep trouble. We were completely crushing them, and all the motion trackign in the world couldn't save them. (MT doesn't pick you up if you walk.) Nowhere on the map was safe for marines. They would try to go in groups, but we would still successfully ambush and kill them.
It was histerical. This rarely happens, when the whole team stays as a skulk to kick their butts, because they realize the true power of cloacking. Sure it dones't help the higher lifeforms as much, but a skilled cloacked skulk is much deadlier than a fade with adrenaline, so why bother?
I hope to see more games like this. Cloackign is really cheap when the whole team knows how to use it. The other two chambers simply don't compare, and getting scent of fear or pheramones is a waste.
I hope to see this happen more often. It really screws the marines over badly, and makes sure that they can't leave base at all. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
My god, from that point on, the marines were dead. When one person knows how to use sensory, the marines are in trouble, but when the whole team does, they're in deep deep trouble. We were completely crushing them, and all the motion trackign in the world couldn't save them. (MT doesn't pick you up if you walk.) Nowhere on the map was safe for marines. They would try to go in groups, but we would still successfully ambush and kill them.
It was histerical. This rarely happens, when the whole team stays as a skulk to kick their butts, because they realize the true power of cloacking. Sure it dones't help the higher lifeforms as much, but a skilled cloacked skulk is much deadlier than a fade with adrenaline, so why bother?
I hope to see more games like this. Cloackign is really cheap when the whole team knows how to use it. The other two chambers simply don't compare, and getting scent of fear or pheramones is a waste.
I hope to see this happen more often. It really screws the marines over badly, and makes sure that they can't leave base at all. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Couldnt agree with your more-
I can obviously tell that the people bashing sensory have never played against a good teamwork alien team, and have 3 cloaked skulks come out of NOWHERE when 4 marines are just walking down a hallway- its just chaos, and the marines will be lucky if they even get one.
You beat a nub marine team on a nub server with passable alien cooperation. Here is your cookie.
Also:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sure it dones't help the higher lifeforms as much, but a skilled cloacked skulk is much deadlier than a fade with adrenaline, so why bother?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->getting scent of fear (...) is a waste.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOLPOCALYPSE
it is?
i think the main thing that sensory gives you is early map control - cause the marines get owned by cloaked skulk ambushes - lots of rfk too. by the time the marines get an observatory and mt up, you've already got the all the rts. and probably another hive in the works. THIS is why i think sensory wins games sometimes.
oh and sof is FAR from useless, in fact, i usually pick it over cloaking. theres a saying... you're invisible if noone's looking. well if you know exactly where they are, you can have a pretty good idea where they WONT be looking, and then hide their and jump on their heads. you can pick your fights, run or go. you can aim things like stomp and xeno very well if you know the marines are clustered. as a gorge, i pick it over cloaking, because if i get surprised attacked, the rines can outrun me, and they'll see me cloak and just shoot that spot. but with sof i have advance warning and im long gone.
also, if the map is covered in scs, then cloaking is kind of redundant, so sof would be a better choice.
i pretty much use cloaking for early skulks cause the marines arent really ready (they dont really know yet what chamber you have). and also, the gorges havent had time to cover the map in scs.
my 2 cents (maybe like 3 or 4, cause it was a decent lengthed post? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Couldnt agree with your more-
I can obviously tell that the people bashing sensory have never played against a good teamwork alien team, and have 3 cloaked skulks come out of NOWHERE when 4 marines are just walking down a hallway- its just chaos, and the marines will be lucky if they even get one. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
By this logic eR has never played any good alien team EVER. Yes: Wether you believe it or not clans do test out sensory strats in scrims.
Course they do. But they don't pick Sensory because it's not good. They Don't pick MC either because it's not good. They pick DC because <i>it's the only way to maintain higher life forms such as lerk effectively.</i>
DC is actually VERY offensive. Regen allows you to stay in the front lines, allowing you to attack more often instead of running back to the hive every battle. Carapace is great for suicide rushes. Redemption, as well, is also very good for suicide rushes. That's why it's picked. SC is defensive, and movement is in between, having both offensive (Celerity and Adrenaline to help you IN battle) and more casual, defensive traits (Silence to help you BEFORE battle, just like SC)
Regen is the key ability. Nothing makes HIGHER evolutions better than the ability to stay in the front lines, because as higher evolutions they do more damage. Skulks, on the other hand, have no use for regen at most times, as they are not as powerful and also are expendable.
Getting DC is saying, "We don't know the enemy's strategy -- we gotta play it safe and save our Fade and Lerk from getting killed because of the unexpected."
It's also saying, "We COULD get Sensory and Movement, but playing defensive (i.e. waiting for the prey to come to you) at the sacrifice of not being able to use our lerk and fade without fear of dying to some unexpected strategy is just not worth it."
And yet, that does not mean "Sensory sucks, only nubs lose to it."
And Swift, I don't think you saved Forlorn any breath because people usually don't count "your enemies were n00b" as proof, simply because you weren't playing his enemies and therefore can't prove it. Meaning Forlorn is gonna have to explain this anyways.
Course they do. But they don't pick Sensory because it's not good. They Don't pick MC either because it's not good. They pick DC because <i>it's the only way to maintain higher life forms such as lerk effectively.</i>
DC is actually VERY offensive. Regen allows you to stay in the front lines, allowing you to attack more often instead of running back to the hive every battle. Carapace is great for suicide rushes. Redemption, as well, is also very good for suicide rushes. That's why it's picked. SC is defensive, and movement is in between, having both offensive (Celerity and Adrenaline to help you IN battle) and more casual, defensive traits (Silence to help you BEFORE battle, just like SC)
Regen is the key ability. Nothing makes HIGHER evolutions better than the ability to stay in the front lines, because as higher evolutions they do more damage. Skulks, on the other hand, have no use for regen at most times, as they are not as powerful and also are expendable.
Getting DC is saying, "We don't know the enemy's strategy -- we gotta play it safe and save our Fade and Lerk from getting killed because of the unexpected."
It's also saying, "We COULD get Sensory and Movement, but playing defensive (i.e. waiting for the prey to come to you) at the sacrifice of not being able to use our lerk and fade without fear of dying to some unexpected strategy is just not worth it."
And yet, that does not mean "Sensory sucks, only nubs lose to it."
And Swift, I don't think you saved Forlorn any breath because people usually don't count "your enemies were n00b" as proof, simply because you weren't playing his enemies and therefore can't prove it. Meaning Forlorn is gonna have to explain this anyways. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Clans (Almost every clan eR has played which is at least over 40+) percieves dc's (1-2 Clans like mc's which are ok depending how used when compared to dc's) to be a better first chamber, if something is better as a first chamber its good to put that chamber down and bad to put another in its place. You could say any chamber is good as long as it doesnt give you -% stats, so I'm not sure what your point is. Btw: thanks for telling me what the chambers did I was obvlivious this entire time.
Ps: Clans dont go sensory first because it is a "bad chamber" when compared to dc's. If you percieve all the chambers as good first chambers then by that logic anything would be good as long as it didnt make you worse some how. For something to be a good chamber you must make a cost analysis to see what you would be giving up in the process.
Anyway, sensory can be very good throughout the game for ALL life-forms; fade and onos can crouch too, no? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> This can be very handy in those long corridors that marines-just-love-to-camp, until they put up observatory to each station. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Good thing Focus will fix this; D-S-M will be more viable option after that. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
i cant count the times we have gone SC->DC to have 1 of our hives taken down and no way to get there fast <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Over and over again... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hmm, you did read my post that you were replying to, right?
Clan do NOT, in fact, shun Sensory because it is BAD. Rather:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Getting DC is saying, "We don't know the enemy's strategy -- we gotta play it safe and save our Fade and Lerk from getting killed because of the unexpected."
It's also saying, "We COULD get Sensory and Movement, but playing defensive (i.e. waiting for the prey to come to you) at the sacrifice of not being able to use our lerk and fade without fear of dying to some unexpected strategy is just not worth it."
And yet, that does not mean "Sensory sucks, only nubs lose to it."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're on the marine team. The aliens have 1 hive, and sensory is their first chamber. You know that there's probably at least 2 skulks laying in wait just outside obs range on both sides of your base. What do you do to leave base safely?
You're on the marine team. The aliens have 1 hive, and sensory is their first chamber. You know that there's probably at least 2 skulks laying in wait just outside obs range on both sides of your base. What do you do to leave base safely? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um, scan?
Or if that is unavailable for whatever reason I would just tell the marines to keep some space between them. Spreading out your marines greatly reduces the effectiveness of ambushes against them.
Suppose you actually manage to gather enough teamwork to take out the nodes in joint efforts of gorges and skulks. Okay. You get down one or two (in about 2 minutes if you work well, factoring in friendly fire and marine disruptions), the commander notices this and sends out his team to shotgun your hive to death. Good game.
The only way to win with sensory is a quick rush at the start or a quick hive, which often doesn't work unless you have more than 6 players.
You're on the marine team. The aliens have 1 hive, and sensory is their first chamber. You know that there's probably at least 2 skulks laying in wait just outside obs range on both sides of your base. What do you do to leave base safely? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep, and I have scenario for you too. Suppose the Kharaa actually know how to use the Sensory chamber, meaning that they KNOW that the commander will be checking for them outside marine base. Guess what? He just wasted a scan. Now he'll have to wait for energy to recharge or use 20 more res to build a new obs, res that could have been that Level 1 Weapons/Armor that the marines wanted....
And if he doesn't build a new obs, have fun with cloaking.
Hmm, you did read my post that you were replying to, right?
Clan do NOT, in fact, shun Sensory because it is BAD. Rather:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Getting DC is saying, "We don't know the enemy's strategy -- we gotta play it safe and save our Fade and Lerk from getting killed because of the unexpected."
It's also saying, "We COULD get Sensory and Movement, but playing defensive (i.e. waiting for the prey to come to you) at the sacrifice of not being able to use our lerk and fade without fear of dying to some unexpected strategy is just not worth it."
And yet, that does not mean "Sensory sucks, only nubs lose to it."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you read mine?
"For something to be a good chamber you must make a cost analysis to see what you would be giving up in the process. " What strategy would the marines have to do so that aliens would benefit from putting sc's compared to giving up thefirst when benefits of dc's? I personally cant think of any. There is none, sensorys DO lack when compared to dc's making it a BAD chamber in comparison.
Why? Because they need to play safe. You can't do risky plans in a game like NS that would effect the team drastically. It's risky to get MC or SC because they can't protect higher life forms, even though they work MUCH better with lower life forms.
And in clan play, you always need higher life forms. But you never, ever know how the marine team will react to higher life forms, so you've GOT to play it safe.
I should have elaborated on myself a bit more earlier. This was the point I tried to make. My apologies.
Why do people say that? Have you ever been a cloaked Onos? It friggin hilarious! Creep up behind a bunch of mairnes, get a clean devour off on one (especially if there is one HA/JP in a pack), and gore the rest. It's even better for the fade - he can blink in and out of combat situations.
Movement? Oni pretty much NEED celerity. Fades with silence can tear apart marines like there is no tomorrow.
I'm pretty sure you're joking about the cloaked Onos, Mech <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Fade, of course, needs adrenaline, that's not my point: in a clan game, where the marines are HIGHLY organized, what do you want most: A fade that can blink infinitely but has to go back for healing every 30 seconds, or a Fade that can only do hit-and-run but can stay up their and block marines from coming outside all day?
I'm pretty sure you're joking about the cloaked Onos, Mech <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Fade, of course, needs adrenaline, that's not my point: in a clan game, where the marines are HIGHLY organized, what do you want most: A fade that can blink infinitely but has to go back for healing every 30 seconds, or a Fade that can only do hit-and-run but can stay up their and block marines from coming outside all day? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats a very good point. Considering marines are very organized in clan matches, aliens need to make the safeset choice if they wish to win. Choosing senroy chambers first will allow the commander to take advantage of that chamber, as in electrifying nodes and such. That commander may never electrify nodes unless the aliens went sensory, because thats an extra 30 (I think) res they could have spent elsewhere if there will shortly be defense chamber fades destroying their 45 res investment. A sensory chamber fade taking out electric RTs is about as useful as a skulk taking out electric RTs. Ofcourse, if it's a highly organized alien team, the marines may never make it out of their base to get resource nodes and electrify them, but thats a pretty risky margin any serious clan would not be willing to take IMO.
Why?
Because if good gorgys put sense at strategic spots around the map, you can be invisible while running , not a small advantage. And if you have gorgys that are good, you can skip the cloak upgrade and get scent of fear, which lets you see marines through walls telling you if you are going to die attacking a group of marines or if you have a chance.
I agree that def is good for regen, but as a skulk, 90% of my attacks are either i die before i can run away, or i kill the marine, so in that case, all regen does is let me regen after a fight instead of locating a gorge with alien sight. And if youre with a good team, someone is collectin res since the begin to put up 2nd hive asap so def is on the way soon.
Personnally, i like variety, im not a power gamer, so even if def is probably better to put at the beginning, doing the def, mov sense routine all the games gets kinda old after a while, so i like to try the 3 powers first on a rotation.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
You get alot less nagging by placing sc is you asked first.
i found out that some matches most ppl vote for SC, so we pic it.
I say.. LET them vote. GIVE them the chamber they want. if the mayority wants that chamber, they know how to use it.
So yes, on a random pub, sensory will be a good choice since you can probably rely on them not scanning effectively (or at all), not holding their territory and not upgrading very fast. In a clan game you're toast, and on a high quality pub you're pretty much dead too.
To some people Sensory First is like a religion and they will refuse to accept any weaknesses, no matter how obvious. They take the constant attacks on their belief as an affirmation that they are right. If you look at it objectively however, you will come to some conclusions:
- Sensory offers the most for the lowest lifeform. Skulks are great with cloaking and SoF.
- Sensory offers the least for the higher lifeforms. Onos needs regen, as does Fade, Lerk needs adrenaline.
- The longer into the game you go, the weaker Sensory gets (more Obs, Armor level 1, Gun upgrades)
So if you go S you will have strong skulks in the beginning, but absolutely *have* to get a second hive quick and probably a third hive to finish it, unless you win within the first few minutes.
The problem is that many of the people advocating S forst don't realise this. They are so caught up in how good sensory is that they don't just ignore the drawbacks, but fail to see the *real* strengths. If you go Sensory, you need to either finish quickly or get a huge advantage that you can use to get 2-3 hives and higher lifeforms. If you go Sensory and you're not winning huge at the 5 minute mark, you're losing.
Movement offers simmilar advantages. Ambushing by Silence/Cloak, better response due to celerity/SoF. Silence is almost negated by MT but celerity will still be useful later in the game. Ontop of this you get adrenaline which is essential for lerks and very good for everyone else too, and the means to easily defend your second or building hive. Once you get the 2:nd hive up you will be in a position to finish the game. That's why I prefer M to both the other chambers. It has the "fun" of Sensory, but is still competetive, like Defense.