<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually, masturbating has the negative effect of conditioning you to a certain sexual response. If all you do is jack it, when you're with a girl you're not going to be enjoying it because you're trained yourself to value self love. It also desensitizes the peter to contact, making for some akward situations that could happen on you friend's couch when her parents aren't home and you need to be home in 15 minutes and you're still waiting to finish the job. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually if anything masterbation enhances sexual experiances by:
1) Making you more comfortable with your sexuality
2) Enhances your sexual sensitivity (masterbation certainly does not decrease your sexual sensitivity)
3) Allows you to control yourself better so you don't ejaculate immediatly upon penetration
I masterbate, so does my fiancee. Sometimes, one of us is in "the mood" so to speak, but the other isn't. So we masterbate instead. Hey, variety is the spice of life <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> It keeps me in "practice" so to speak, and it keeps her vaginal muscles nice and tight (the orgasms are a tasty side-benefit <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ). If this is offending anyone go jump off a bridge <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is based on two things - firstly the sense of guilt that is usually associated with it. Guilt is generally our conscience (or our sense of right and wrong) kicking us in the rear. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong. Many of us (yourself and I for starters Marine01) went to Christian schools and were brought up in Christian societies. And what is hammered into you in such places? Masterbation is wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong with a side order of wrong and wrong pudding for desert. That is why people feel guilty about it. When people arn't told masterbation is wrong they don't feel guilty! Thus there isn't some holy conscience telling us not to do it; these guilt feelings are purely a result of social conditioning.
What this thread has, of course, turned into is Biology vs God. Does anyone think that there are non-religious grounds for thinking masterbation is incorrect or "wrong"?
i have had g.f's on and off since i was around 14... when im not having intercourse(polite word <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) im masterbating.. its healthy... besides... erm.. its not like it affects anyone..
<!--QuoteBegin--Ryo-Ohki+Nov 9 2003, 04:53 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Nov 9 2003, 04:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually, masturbating has the negative effect of conditioning you to a certain sexual response. If all you do is jack it, when you're with a girl you're not going to be enjoying it because you're trained yourself to value self love. It also desensitizes the peter to contact, making for some akward situations that could happen on you friend's couch when her parents aren't home and you need to be home in 15 minutes and you're still waiting to finish the job. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually if anything masterbation enhances sexual experiances by:
1) Making you more comfortable with your sexuality
2) Enhances your sexual sensitivity (masterbation certainly does not decrease your sexual sensitivity)
3) Allows you to control yourself better so you don't ejaculate immediatly upon penetration
I masterbate, so does my fiancee. Sometimes, one of us is in "the mood" so to speak, but the other isn't. So we masterbate instead. Hey, variety is the spice of life <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> It keeps me in "practice" so to speak, and it keeps her vaginal muscles nice and tight (the orgasms are a tasty side-benefit <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ). If this is offending anyone go jump off a bridge <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is based on two things - firstly the sense of guilt that is usually associated with it. Guilt is generally our conscience (or our sense of right and wrong) kicking us in the rear. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong. Many of us (yourself and I for starters Marine01) went to Christian schools and were brought up in Christian societies. And what is hammered into you in such places? Masterbation is wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong with a side order of wrong and wrong pudding for desert. That is why people feel guilty about it. When people arn't told masterbation is wrong they don't feel guilty! Thus there isn't some holy conscience telling us not to do it; these guilt feelings are purely a result of social conditioning.
What this thread has, of course, turned into is Biology vs God. Does anyone think that there are non-religious grounds for thinking masterbation is incorrect or "wrong"? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But thats the thing Ryo - no one actually expressly told me what masterbation even was. I was 13, I had a rough idea of the whole "birds and bees" affair, but when I heard someone at school talking about masturbation, I had to look it up in the dictionairy. Still didnt make much sense to me, until I stumbled upon uhhhh - "the topic of this thread", but I still knew it was wrong.
Its possible that my being raised in a hardlining religious family had something to do with it, but I doubt it. When I was 9 I was trying to pay my little sister out at the dinner table. I said "Beth has had sex". I was sent to my room instantly. My mother than came in and explained to me that a)there was nothing wrong with sex and b) "Your Father and I have done that". I was shocked at my parents evil, but she spent 30 minutes explaining to me that sex was something that God created as a special experience between married people, and that it wasnt evil.
I didnt think "sex = bad", or "masturbation = bad", I just knew through and through that I had done the wrong thing. And every time I fell to temptation the guilt lessened, until I believe my conscience in the matter was completely seared. I dont feel that this is the result of religious conditioning.
And I also dont believe this is turning into religion vs biol. Biol tells us what masturbation is, religion tells us why we shouldnt practise it. Its not a VS situation. Masturbation is like the homosexual debate - the only thing that stands between it and moral legitimacy is religious beliefs.
Cronos, that site suffers from a critical misunderstanding about Jesus mission and divinity. The fact that they compared God's actions to human actions and then try to judge him with the same standard blew all their credibility out of the water theologically, but even then the rest of it was insanely easy to pick apart. It then criticises Jesus for going against Mosaic law. ROFL. The Jews had gone AWOL on the rules, Jesus (being both fully man and fully God, yes God, the guy who delivered the original Mosaic law) comes to correct them. Basic message - I gave you these rules to show you that you couldnt live up to them, you obviously missed that and thought that you could. The rules are not the be all and end all - they are there to show you something, not to be followed down to the last nitpicking detail. And if you knew just how nitpicky the Priests were in those days you'd understand.
He broke not one of the ten commandments, but he ripped it up through a whole stack of Jewish tradition, which made him extremely unpopular with the religious rulers of the time. Basically - the Jews had twisted God's law into the extremely anal Mosaic law, something which Jesus then proceeded to break repeatedly. Thirty seconds with a first year Biblical student could have told you that - yet this religious tolerance site seems blissfully unaware.
Displaying savage contempt for context, they appear to be picking up any dirt that they can find on Jesus and throwing it up at us. If there is no dirt to be found, they invent it. Anyone ready for a good laugh? This should be great for a few yuks:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Personal habits: In Matthew 11:19 and Luke 7:34, Jesus is called a "gluttonous man and a winebibber" i.e. a glutton and a drunk.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow - Jesus liked to have a few eh? Maybe he met the disciples on his way to an AA meeting? Or perhaps he was heading to Jenny Craig when he met Peter, as Christ is obviously a glutton. And then some spoilsport 18yr old kid from Brisbane takes 30 seconds to look up the surrounding verses from scripture, and suddenly it doesnt seem to clear anymore
Matthew 12:18-19 <!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners".' But wisdom is proved right by her actions.<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
Thats somewhat a different story to "Jesus is a glutton and a drunkard thats what the Bible says". Its very obviously trying to say that no matter what you do, evil people will try and drag you down with accusations (damned if you do, damned if you dont - they will always attack you), but in the end you will be proved right by what you do. The hilarious part is this is EXACTLY what that site is trying to do. Savour the irony.
Now I know the forum rules call for more than one example in order to pass off a source as rubbish - so if anyone here feels that that site is still reliable, I am more then happy to carry on lambasting it. There is enough ammunition on that page to keep me going all night. What they have done on that page is indefensible from an intellectual standpoint. Thats propaganda, the deliberate twisting of truth and amplification of misconceptions and general lack of public knowledge in order to push their own point of view.
Mainstream calls for religious tolerance is an insult to all religions - its pretty much based around the idea "You guys are all wrong and stupid, so water down your beliefs so we can all feel happy".
There was a great thread in a church board about masterbation. It was so hilarous.
As such, masturbation can't really be bad since it's a natural reaction occuring in everyone's body, almost an instinct. The nature's way of preparing you for sex, if you will.
Also, masturbation doesn't actually hurt anyone, and there are no medical side-effects to masturbating. So it can't possibly be wrong unless it's your beliefs.
Nobody ever told you it was wrong so how could it be for you.
But, deep down you must feel a LITTLE guilty. Don't you just feel all that shame piling up in you until you must hurt yourself for being so bad? Ohh, what a cute little spawn of satan you are, aren't you...GooGoo GahGah. Repent! Repent! Child of sinful humanity! Flay your back! Kiss the floor! Save your soul!
Hey if god comes down here personally and tells me to stop, I might......might
If anything masturbation helps keep you mellow, chances are if you see a really **** off guy, and it's not Monday morning, him not masturbating is an underlying cause. Masturbation is healthy, the only drawback is if you do it to much you tend to lose alot of protein not to mention the sore wrist.......so eat a piece of chicken when your done and you should be fine <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Why is the core of this argument based around what is said in the bible? Do none of you have morals of your own? I make my own rules, and my own judgements. I see what I enjoy, what I feel, and I find that what I enjoy is NOT masturbation. I LUST for masturbation, but I do not enjoy it. I always regret it after, and thus I defy my urge to take part in it.
I see the bible as a huge gigantic propaganda tool. I got tired of all its little rules, hailing a figure(s) as a supreme being. If you dont you go to hell for it. Yeah yeah as Asal said I also have my own little rules and guidelines I follow. Yeah the 10 Commandments as we say I follow those rules but not because of religious bashing in my head. Just because I decided not to do them. Dont need to kill anyone steal and other things I cant remember what are in it.
And if masturbating is illegal why would this God man person being bother making all us sinners. Why bother with all the trouble having us being created just to send to a firery burning place. Well my religion teacher said there was no fire in hell just some place. But as you see I dont believe in hell or heaven. Just live me life as it goes on accepting as things goes on.
Reading books also helps with dealing with things in your life. Best one iv read so far was "Way of the peaceful warrior" -Dan Miller Read it in 11th grade by far the best ever summer school book I will have ever read :/
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Ryo-Ohki+Nov 9 2003, 04:53 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Nov 9 2003, 04:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What this thread has, of course, turned into is Biology vs God. Does anyone think that there are non-religious grounds for thinking masterbation is incorrect or "wrong"? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Morally, you spill millions of possible lives without giving them a chance? Mentally, the effect it has on you
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Ryo-Ohki+Nov 9 2003, 04:53 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Nov 9 2003, 04:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What this thread has, of course, turned into is Biology vs God. Does anyone think that there are non-religious grounds for thinking masterbation is incorrect or "wrong"? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Morally, you spill millions of possible lives without giving them a chance? Exploitation of female sexuality? Mentally, it have some sort of effect, it removes lust (One of the reason for living?) Naturally, I dont think the nature intended us to jack it off, else we would have a natural instinct for it.
Myself? I see nothing wrong with it, it's enjoyable and relaxing <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3072021.stm' target='_blank'>Masturbation is good for your prostate!</a>
From the article: <i>Men who ejaculated more than five times a week were a third less likely to develop prostate cancer later in life.</i>
Get fapping, boys!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Morally, you spill millions of possible lives without giving them a chance?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By that logic, it would be immoral for a woman to have her menses, as that egg could have had a chance to be a life.
<!--QuoteBegin--Epidemic+Nov 9 2003, 11:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Nov 9 2003, 11:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Morally, you spill millions of possible lives without giving them a chance? Mentally, the effect it has on you <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'll admit that the article I linked to was probably inappropriate. Consider it retracted.
To the quote above ^^
In a single ejaculation, 500 Million sperm are ejected from the ****. In intercourse, only 500 of those 500 Million make it to the egg, and of those, only one, ONLY ONE, can fertilise the egg.
You cannot justify spilling millions of possible lives because the sperm supply is unlimited, if given time to regenerate back to normal levels.
Morally there is nothing wrong with masturbation. Your not changing your biochmistry appreciably as in drug use, and your not hurting anyone. You make yourself feel good, and forgoe sexual tension for the day.
Mentally depends on your upbringing. If you were brought up in a devout christian/catholic background, then you may feel bad about masturbation. I went through that phase a long time ago.
I came to the decision that Masturbation is preparation for the real sexual experience. I derive pleasure from my masturbation, for if something feels good with no negative effects on anyone else, why should it be considered bad?
One last thing. If Masturbation were not a natural instinct, how can millions of teenagers "Discover" the technique independently?
I personally discovered rather by accident before I knew what masturbation was, nobody had to tell me. I came to my qualms of it being "Against god" and eventually came to a conclusion that satisified me.
Natural biological functions are in no way against god, and god, should he exist, will not hate you nor condemn you for masturbation.
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--QuoteBegin--Marine01+ sometime--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marine01 @ sometime)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And I also dont believe this is turning into religion vs biol. Biol tells us what masturbation is, religion tells us why we shouldnt practise it. Its not a VS situation. Masturbation is like the homosexual debate - the only thing that stands between it and moral legitimacy is religious beliefs.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hardcore/zealot catholics would LIKE to believe that, buddy... but biology, biochemistry, and animal psychology tell us what masturbation is.. and tells us why it is natural. no debate required on that issue.
<!--QuoteBegin--Asal something or other+ a while ago--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Asal something or other @ a while ago)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why is the core of this argument based around what is said in the bible? Do none of you have morals of your own?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
we're debating, now, masturbation in the eyes of CATHOLICS. durrr. dur dur dur dur dur.
[1]Morally, you spill millions of possible lives without giving them a chance? [2]Exploitation of female sexuality? [3]Mentally, it have some sort of effect, it removes lust (One of the reason for living?) [4]Naturally, I dont think the nature intended us to jack it off, else we would have a natural instinct for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. 0_0... refer to what cronus said 2. how? we're usually alone when we masturbate. 4. we do have a natural instinct for it. where have YOU been reading? lol
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->hardcore/zealot catholics would LIKE to believe that, buddy... but biology, biochemistry, and animal psychology tell us what masturbation is.. and tells us why it is natural. no debate required on that issue. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, many kinds of animals masterbate (incidently, masterbation by definition doesn't worry if it is yourself, or someone else doing it to you, just no genital contact involved) so I'm inclined to not particularly care if someone thinks its wrong or not. Simply because it is biologically natural and is actually healthy (lowers the risk of prostate cancer and encourages regeneration of new hormones/sperm cells).
Then again, some animals like monkeys rape eachother too, so a natural argument can only be taken so far when applied to humans.
And incidently, "every sperm is precious, every sperm is great, when you waste your sperm God gets quite irate"
<!--QuoteBegin--Epidemic+Nov 10 2003, 12:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Nov 10 2003, 12:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Morally, you spill millions of possible lives without giving them a chance? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Im afraid I have to disagree with you there epidemic.
The sperm cells are not individual lives, they are hardly proper human cells, having only half the chromosomes of other human cells. Every sperm has the potential to become another human, but masturbation is not murder.
Take an organism/living thing. If you extrapolate its life out and it doesnt turn into anything sentient in 50% of cases, then you havent killed anying you should feel guilty about.
There are many more things which can be classified as 'good' than just sentience. That's a very narrow minded view. And I'm not being sarcastic this time.
Anyone with any questions on masturbation, and, indeed, sex in general should get a copy of <a href='http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0330390775/ref=sr_aps_books_1_2/026-1402943-6367640' target='_blank'>Sperm wars</a> a fantastic book on human sex and sexuality. Its scientific without being too boring. Its entertaining without being flippant. I'd put it on a par with "the selfish gene".
In any case, you can either reload your sperm payload yourself, or your body can do it in your sleep. Neither is harmful, unless you subscribe to particular religious tennets. If however, you do, try not to have those thoughts about Marie Osmond.
Ive said it before and ill say it again, as people have mentioned, the views of a particular culture/religion are highly subjective, in reality there is no right and wrong, they are man made concepts. You have to decide based on your own values, what you interpret as right or wrong.
Biologically, the male body is designed for frequent ejaculation, sperm only live for 2-3 days max, therefore it is <i>expected</i> to be released once every 2-3 days, and if no mates are available, your hand always is <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->. As some of you have stated, masturbation also has some health benefits. And technically it isnt sex, as sex is the introction of the **** into the ****.
When you masterbate you do not kill anything, sperm are not people, they are half the chromosones required to create life, and perhaps 1 in a million can eventually become a human. They are expendable, therefore continually being produced, to, at some point pass your genes on to the next generation. You do not hurt anyone whilst masturbating, i dont know why people feel guilty about it.
In the wild, masterbation can be seen as a sign of intelligence, dolphins have been known to jack each other off, and of course then theres monkeys. This shows that it is a natural part of life, id like to see you convince me that all monkeys are going to hell because they jack it.
Let me remind you all, and to quote the matrix "to deny our impulses, is to deny the very thing that makes us human".
[EDIT] OMG!! Nazi swear filter P E N I S and V A G I N A are medical terms, what the hell is wrong with you people??
Masturbation is not the only way sperm leaves the body. When the majority of it is dead, the body ejects it the same way it would the waste after eating. Haven't any of you wondered what is going on when you pee clear sometimes? Maybe you never noticed. Anyway, that's dead sperm.
Edit: Inserted a new term for going to the bathroom, due to filter
Sorry I didn't read the whole thread, but for all you hardline Catholics out there...
We (I'm Roman Catholic, though maybe not a very "good" one, but that's between me and God) are expected to believe in the infalibility of the pope, for what he binds on earth is also bound in heaven, and what he looses on earth will also be loosed in heaven, etc. What does this mean? Well, if the pope says you're going to hell (bascially ex-communication), then you're going to hell, and there ain't one damn thing you can do about it. Yeah, scary thought, huh?
But what I'm getting at is that there's a scary cause and effect relationship that could unfold here:
1: The pope declares masturbation a capital sin. 2: 80% of the US Catholic male population tries to confess, but the thing is, you can't be forgiven and your sins wages paid through the death of Christ unless you REALLY mean it, and who here to masturbates can say that they could just stop today and never pick it up again. ever? (trust me, I HAVE tried...it's very difficult. especially with my sexlife, but that's not what we're discussing). 3: We all goto hell (eek!)
Due to this relationship, all I can say is I hope to high heaven that the pope doesn't mind masturbation!
Oh, and one other side note, on the question of whether you're killing unborn babies... The average male will create enough sperm in his lifetime to knock up every female that ever lived on our great blue planet. That's one HELL of alot of sperm. So, just by deductive logic, if you believe you're killing people, you've already kill millions of young daughters and sons, and will continue to kill millions more until the day you become sterile. Which leads to another morale cause and effect that lands us all on the "Welcome" mat of hell. Cheers! ;-)
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Masturbation is not the only way sperm leaves the body. When the majority of it is dead, the body ejects it the same way it would the waste after eating. Haven't any of you wondered what is going on when you pee clear sometimes? Maybe you never noticed. Anyway, that's dead sperm.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i dont know where you heard that, but its absolutely wrong, trust me. You pee clear when you drunk to much(i dont mean alcohol... well, perhaps also)
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
edited November 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--Anonymous Coward+Nov 10 2003, 04:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Anonymous Coward @ Nov 10 2003, 04:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And then what happens when you die? Oh no! You killed millions upon millions of people! You should have had more unprotected sex with women!
Abstinence kills so many babies! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sperms are possible lives.. of course you're excused if you get killed or steriled or something, but you're masturbating just for pleasure!
Chronos, we're talking about giving them a chance.
Everyone has drilled in their brains that sex is wrong. And, if you must keep your parents from seeing you masturbate, it is an easy jump to assume masturbation is wrong too.
If you were constantly told that eating is wrong, but you did it anyway, you would probably hide when you did it too. Not only that, but you would agree with them that it is wrong. It may seem silly to think eating is wrong, but what is less obvious is the fact that it is equally silly to think masturbating is wrong.
There is NOTHING WRONG WITH MASTURBATION!
If your religion said eating was wrong, would that make it wrong? There are those of you in the thread that would say yes, but I don't think so. Jack on!
That_Annoying_KidSire of TitlesJoin Date: 2003-03-01Member: 14175Members, Constellation
I intersting fact is that masturbation just like smoking lowers blood pressure and releases a certain chemical [I think it's ceratonin or dopamine, not sure]
I'm wondering how the 'but when you masturbate you kill millions of possible people' argument holds up for women. If you aren't supposed to have sex until after marriage, but a woman ovulates ~1/month, doesn't that mean she will kill hundreds of 'possible people' before she gets married? And will continue to kill them off even after marriage? And theres nothing you can do to prevent it? An egg is just as much of a 'possible person' as a sperm, arguably far more so (in a sucessfull conception, 100% of the eggs turn into people, while a incredibly small percentage of the sperm do). Lets also not forget that eggs are NOT replenished, while sperm are.
Comments
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Actually if anything masterbation enhances sexual experiances by:
1) Making you more comfortable with your sexuality
2) Enhances your sexual sensitivity (masterbation certainly does not decrease your sexual sensitivity)
3) Allows you to control yourself better so you don't ejaculate immediatly upon penetration
I masterbate, so does my fiancee. Sometimes, one of us is in "the mood" so to speak, but the other isn't. So we masterbate instead. Hey, variety is the spice of life <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> It keeps me in "practice" so to speak, and it keeps her vaginal muscles nice and tight (the orgasms are a tasty side-benefit <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ). If this is offending anyone go jump off a bridge <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is based on two things - firstly the sense of guilt that is usually associated with it. Guilt is generally our conscience (or our sense of right and wrong) kicking us in the rear.
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Wrong. Many of us (yourself and I for starters Marine01) went to Christian schools and were brought up in Christian societies. And what is hammered into you in such places? Masterbation is wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong with a side order of wrong and wrong pudding for desert. That is why people feel guilty about it. When people arn't told masterbation is wrong they don't feel guilty! Thus there isn't some holy conscience telling us not to do it; these guilt feelings are purely a result of social conditioning.
What this thread has, of course, turned into is Biology vs God. Does anyone think that there are non-religious grounds for thinking masterbation is incorrect or "wrong"?
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Actually if anything masterbation enhances sexual experiances by:
1) Making you more comfortable with your sexuality
2) Enhances your sexual sensitivity (masterbation certainly does not decrease your sexual sensitivity)
3) Allows you to control yourself better so you don't ejaculate immediatly upon penetration
I masterbate, so does my fiancee. Sometimes, one of us is in "the mood" so to speak, but the other isn't. So we masterbate instead. Hey, variety is the spice of life <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> It keeps me in "practice" so to speak, and it keeps her vaginal muscles nice and tight (the orgasms are a tasty side-benefit <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ). If this is offending anyone go jump off a bridge <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is based on two things - firstly the sense of guilt that is usually associated with it. Guilt is generally our conscience (or our sense of right and wrong) kicking us in the rear.
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Wrong. Many of us (yourself and I for starters Marine01) went to Christian schools and were brought up in Christian societies. And what is hammered into you in such places? Masterbation is wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong with a side order of wrong and wrong pudding for desert. That is why people feel guilty about it. When people arn't told masterbation is wrong they don't feel guilty! Thus there isn't some holy conscience telling us not to do it; these guilt feelings are purely a result of social conditioning.
What this thread has, of course, turned into is Biology vs God. Does anyone think that there are non-religious grounds for thinking masterbation is incorrect or "wrong"? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But thats the thing Ryo - no one actually expressly told me what masterbation even was. I was 13, I had a rough idea of the whole "birds and bees" affair, but when I heard someone at school talking about masturbation, I had to look it up in the dictionairy. Still didnt make much sense to me, until I stumbled upon uhhhh - "the topic of this thread", but I still knew it was wrong.
Its possible that my being raised in a hardlining religious family had something to do with it, but I doubt it. When I was 9 I was trying to pay my little sister out at the dinner table. I said "Beth has had sex". I was sent to my room instantly. My mother than came in and explained to me that a)there was nothing wrong with sex and b) "Your Father and I have done that". I was shocked at my parents evil, but she spent 30 minutes explaining to me that sex was something that God created as a special experience between married people, and that it wasnt evil.
I didnt think "sex = bad", or "masturbation = bad", I just knew through and through that I had done the wrong thing. And every time I fell to temptation the guilt lessened, until I believe my conscience in the matter was completely seared. I dont feel that this is the result of religious conditioning.
And I also dont believe this is turning into religion vs biol. Biol tells us what masturbation is, religion tells us why we shouldnt practise it. Its not a VS situation. Masturbation is like the homosexual debate - the only thing that stands between it and moral legitimacy is religious beliefs.
Cronos, that site suffers from a critical misunderstanding about Jesus mission and divinity. The fact that they compared God's actions to human actions and then try to judge him with the same standard blew all their credibility out of the water theologically, but even then the rest of it was insanely easy to pick apart. It then criticises Jesus for going against Mosaic law. ROFL. The Jews had gone AWOL on the rules, Jesus (being both fully man and fully God, yes God, the guy who delivered the original Mosaic law) comes to correct them. Basic message - I gave you these rules to show you that you couldnt live up to them, you obviously missed that and thought that you could. The rules are not the be all and end all - they are there to show you something, not to be followed down to the last nitpicking detail. And if you knew just how nitpicky the Priests were in those days you'd understand.
He broke not one of the ten commandments, but he ripped it up through a whole stack of Jewish tradition, which made him extremely unpopular with the religious rulers of the time. Basically - the Jews had twisted God's law into the extremely anal Mosaic law, something which Jesus then proceeded to break repeatedly. Thirty seconds with a first year Biblical student could have told you that - yet this religious tolerance site seems blissfully unaware.
Displaying savage contempt for context, they appear to be picking up any dirt that they can find on Jesus and throwing it up at us. If there is no dirt to be found, they invent it. Anyone ready for a good laugh? This should be great for a few yuks:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Personal habits: In Matthew 11:19 and Luke 7:34, Jesus is called a "gluttonous man and a winebibber" i.e. a glutton and a drunk.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow - Jesus liked to have a few eh? Maybe he met the disciples on his way to an AA meeting? Or perhaps he was heading to Jenny Craig when he met Peter, as Christ is obviously a glutton. And then some spoilsport 18yr old kid from Brisbane takes 30 seconds to look up the surrounding verses from scripture, and suddenly it doesnt seem to clear anymore
Matthew 12:18-19
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners".' But wisdom is proved right by her actions.<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
Thats somewhat a different story to "Jesus is a glutton and a drunkard thats what the Bible says". Its very obviously trying to say that no matter what you do, evil people will try and drag you down with accusations (damned if you do, damned if you dont - they will always attack you), but in the end you will be proved right by what you do. The hilarious part is this is EXACTLY what that site is trying to do. Savour the irony.
Now I know the forum rules call for more than one example in order to pass off a source as rubbish - so if anyone here feels that that site is still reliable, I am more then happy to carry on lambasting it. There is enough ammunition on that page to keep me going all night. What they have done on that page is indefensible from an intellectual standpoint. Thats propaganda, the deliberate twisting of truth and amplification of misconceptions and general lack of public knowledge in order to push their own point of view.
Mainstream calls for religious tolerance is an insult to all religions - its pretty much based around the idea "You guys are all wrong and stupid, so water down your beliefs so we can all feel happy".
As such, masturbation can't really be bad since it's a natural reaction occuring in everyone's body, almost an instinct. The nature's way of preparing you for sex, if you will.
Also, masturbation doesn't actually hurt anyone, and there are no medical side-effects to masturbating. So it can't possibly be wrong unless it's your beliefs.
But, deep down you must feel a LITTLE guilty. Don't you just feel all that shame piling up in you until you must hurt yourself for being so bad? Ohh, what a cute little spawn of satan you are, aren't you...GooGoo GahGah. Repent! Repent! Child of sinful humanity! Flay your back! Kiss the floor! Save your soul!
Edit: Heheh, Porn and Chicken!
If anything masturbation helps keep you mellow, chances are if you see a really **** off guy, and it's not Monday morning, him not masturbating is an underlying cause.
Masturbation is healthy, the only drawback is if you do it to much you tend to lose alot of protein not to mention the sore wrist.......so eat a piece of chicken when your done and you should be fine <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
And if masturbating is illegal why would this God man person being bother making all us sinners. Why bother with all the trouble having us being created just to send to a firery burning place. Well my religion teacher said there was no fire in hell just some place. But as you see I dont believe in hell or heaven. Just live me life as it goes on accepting as things goes on.
Reading books also helps with dealing with things in your life. Best one iv read so far was "Way of the peaceful warrior" -Dan Miller Read it in 11th grade by far the best ever summer school book I will have ever read :/
Morally, you spill millions of possible lives without giving them a chance?
Mentally, the effect it has on you
Morally, you spill millions of possible lives without giving them a chance?
Exploitation of female sexuality?
Mentally, it have some sort of effect, it removes lust (One of the reason for living?)
Naturally, I dont think the nature intended us to jack it off, else we would have a natural instinct for it.
Myself? I see nothing wrong with it, it's enjoyable and relaxing <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap
;D!
From the article:
<i>Men who ejaculated more than five times a week were a third less likely to develop prostate cancer later in life.</i>
Get fapping, boys!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Morally, you spill millions of possible lives without giving them a chance?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By that logic, it would be immoral for a woman to have her menses, as that egg could have had a chance to be a life.
Mentally, the effect it has on you <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll admit that the article I linked to was probably inappropriate. Consider it retracted.
To the quote above ^^
In a single ejaculation, 500 Million sperm are ejected from the ****. In intercourse, only 500 of those 500 Million make it to the egg, and of those, only one, ONLY ONE, can fertilise the egg.
You cannot justify spilling millions of possible lives because the sperm supply is unlimited, if given time to regenerate back to normal levels.
Morally there is nothing wrong with masturbation. Your not changing your biochmistry appreciably as in drug use, and your not hurting anyone. You make yourself feel good, and forgoe sexual tension for the day.
Mentally depends on your upbringing. If you were brought up in a devout christian/catholic background, then you may feel bad about masturbation. I went through that phase a long time ago.
I came to the decision that Masturbation is preparation for the real sexual experience. I derive pleasure from my masturbation, for if something feels good with no negative effects on anyone else, why should it be considered bad?
One last thing. If Masturbation were not a natural instinct, how can millions of teenagers "Discover" the technique independently?
I personally discovered rather by accident before I knew what masturbation was, nobody had to tell me. I came to my qualms of it being "Against god" and eventually came to a conclusion that satisified me.
Natural biological functions are in no way against god, and god, should he exist, will not hate you nor condemn you for masturbation.
hardcore/zealot catholics would LIKE to believe that, buddy... but biology, biochemistry, and animal psychology tell us what masturbation is.. and tells us why it is natural. no debate required on that issue.
<!--QuoteBegin--Asal something or other+ a while ago--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Asal something or other @ a while ago)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why is the core of this argument based around what is said in the bible? Do none of you have morals of your own?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
we're debating, now, masturbation in the eyes of CATHOLICS. durrr. dur dur dur dur dur.
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[1]Morally, you spill millions of possible lives without giving them a chance?
[2]Exploitation of female sexuality?
[3]Mentally, it have some sort of effect, it removes lust (One of the reason for living?)
[4]Naturally, I dont think the nature intended us to jack it off, else we would have a natural instinct for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. 0_0... refer to what cronus said
2. how? we're usually alone when we masturbate.
4. we do have a natural instinct for it. where have YOU been reading? lol
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Well, many kinds of animals masterbate (incidently, masterbation by definition doesn't worry if it is yourself, or someone else doing it to you, just no genital contact involved) so I'm inclined to not particularly care if someone thinks its wrong or not. Simply because it is biologically natural and is actually healthy (lowers the risk of prostate cancer and encourages regeneration of new hormones/sperm cells).
Then again, some animals like monkeys rape eachother too, so a natural argument can only be taken so far when applied to humans.
And incidently, "every sperm is precious, every sperm is great, when you waste your sperm God gets quite irate"
Im afraid I have to disagree with you there epidemic.
The sperm cells are not individual lives, they are hardly proper human cells, having only half the chromosomes of other human cells. Every sperm has the potential to become another human, but masturbation is not murder.
Abstinence kills so many babies!
In any case, you can either reload your sperm payload yourself, or your body can do it in your sleep. Neither is harmful, unless you subscribe to particular religious tennets. If however, you do, try not to have those thoughts about Marie Osmond.
Biologically, the male body is designed for frequent ejaculation, sperm only live for 2-3 days max, therefore it is <i>expected</i> to be released once every 2-3 days, and if no mates are available, your hand always is <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->. As some of you have stated, masturbation also has some health benefits. And technically it isnt sex, as sex is the introction of the **** into the ****.
When you masterbate you do not kill anything, sperm are not people, they are half the chromosones required to create life, and perhaps 1 in a million can eventually become a human. They are expendable, therefore continually being produced, to, at some point pass your genes on to the next generation. You do not hurt anyone whilst masturbating, i dont know why people feel guilty about it.
In the wild, masterbation can be seen as a sign of intelligence, dolphins have been known to jack each other off, and of course then theres monkeys. This shows that it is a natural part of life, id like to see you convince me that all monkeys are going to hell because they jack it.
Let me remind you all, and to quote the matrix "to deny our impulses, is to deny the very thing that makes us human".
[EDIT] OMG!! Nazi swear filter P E N I S and V A G I N A are medical terms, what the hell is wrong with you people??
Edit: Inserted a new term for going to the bathroom, due to filter
We (I'm Roman Catholic, though maybe not a very "good" one, but that's between me and God) are expected to believe in the infalibility of the pope, for what he binds on earth is also bound in heaven, and what he looses on earth will also be loosed in heaven, etc. What does this mean? Well, if the pope says you're going to hell (bascially ex-communication), then you're going to hell, and there ain't one damn thing you can do about it. Yeah, scary thought, huh?
But what I'm getting at is that there's a scary cause and effect relationship that could unfold here:
1: The pope declares masturbation a capital sin.
2: 80% of the US Catholic male population tries to confess, but the thing is, you can't be forgiven and your sins wages paid through the death of Christ unless you REALLY mean it, and who here to masturbates can say that they could just stop today and never pick it up again. ever? (trust me, I HAVE tried...it's very difficult. especially with my sexlife, but that's not what we're discussing).
3: We all goto hell (eek!)
Due to this relationship, all I can say is I hope to high heaven that the pope doesn't mind masturbation!
Oh, and one other side note, on the question of whether you're killing unborn babies... The average male will create enough sperm in his lifetime to knock up every female that ever lived on our great blue planet. That's one HELL of alot of sperm. So, just by deductive logic, if you believe you're killing people, you've already kill millions of young daughters and sons, and will continue to kill millions more until the day you become sterile. Which leads to another morale cause and effect that lands us all on the "Welcome" mat of hell. Cheers! ;-)
i dont know where you heard that, but its absolutely wrong, trust me. You pee clear when you drunk to much(i dont mean alcohol... well, perhaps also)
Abstinence kills so many babies! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sperms are possible lives.. of course you're excused if you get killed or steriled or something, but you're masturbating just for pleasure!
Chronos, we're talking about giving them a chance.
If you were constantly told that eating is wrong, but you did it anyway, you would probably hide when you did it too. Not only that, but you would agree with them that it is wrong. It may seem silly to think eating is wrong, but what is less obvious is the fact that it is equally silly to think masturbating is wrong.
There is NOTHING WRONG WITH MASTURBATION!
If your religion said eating was wrong, would that make it wrong? There are those of you in the thread that would say yes, but I don't think so. Jack on!
in a few words, don't smoke, wank