Masturbation...
kida
Join Date: 2003-02-20 Member: 13778Members
Join Date: 2003-02-20 Member: 13778Members
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">Right or wrong?</div> Masturbation is abstinence and abstinence prevents an unwanted child, what is so bad about it?
I don't read anywhere in the bible where it says specifically that masturbation is wrong, but I do know that lust is a sin. Sometimes our bodies, especially during puberty, our raging with "hormones"- natural qualities which we cannot prevent ourselves from, but only through you-know-what.
Anyways, what do you think? Is it plausible that masturbation is natural? Do you blame the church and whatnot for making it look bad?
As for me, well...
I don't read anywhere in the bible where it says specifically that masturbation is wrong, but I do know that lust is a sin. Sometimes our bodies, especially during puberty, our raging with "hormones"- natural qualities which we cannot prevent ourselves from, but only through you-know-what.
Anyways, what do you think? Is it plausible that masturbation is natural? Do you blame the church and whatnot for making it look bad?
As for me, well...
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
the church kiiinda says it's bad
but they have no proof, and they know it.
if you want to stick to the bible, there's a passage telling you how to wash yourself if you spill your semen... but that's IT.
masturbation is natural. jesus did it, we still do it.
Now I see Marine01 is reading this thread so prepare for the religious response! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The other, as any red blooded male will tell you, is what usually goes hand in hand (what a damn awful pun) with masturbation - lust. If you lust after a woman, you have already committed adultery with her in your heart. It is impossible to seperate the two, the use of masturbation and the imagination is the natural conclusion of such activities.
And then the usage of pornography, especially among netizens seems to come a lot easier. And this is no outsiders opinion here, I have struggled and won against the filth that is porn, but it still haunts me.
Outside of that, its supposed to have some health benefits, such as "out with the old, in with the new" semen. But its not worth it imho, far to risky. And dont tell me pornography isnt risky.
There was a passage somewhere in the old testament declaring that those wasting their seed or laying down with other men as they do with women (translation: Homosexuality) should be killed or punished in some form. Of course this was based on common knowledge at the time that men had only a limited amount of seed, which has since been proven untrue.
The nature of male... Equipment... is to spread it as far as possible. Males are allowed to fantasise about other partners in my books, just as long as there is no physical betrayal.
Just think of masturbation as a sexual outlet. Too little is bad. Too much is bad. Find your "just right" area for yourself.
Also, as a side note, I did read in the papers a few months ago that regular masturbation decreases ones chances of developing prostate cancer, so in a medical sense it IS good.
masturbation itself as a biological function is NOT a sin
but lust and other accompanying sin ARE violations. (lol, what is this... parking tickets? VIOLATION!!)
the bible says you shouldn't defile your body, either. only YOU know whether your masturbation is DEFILING. do you fantasize about your friend while doing it? things like that.
on the other hand, tantric and other meditative masturbation methods should not be violations.
no he didn't. where does it say that he did?
no he didn't. where does it say that he did?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Where does it say that he *didn't*? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
it doesn't really matter. what you do is your business.
i mean really, who cares? i'll think, touch, and smoke what i want as long as it doesn't hurt anybody, and if u take offense to that then you clearly have too much free time (or are a damn Nazi) to be prying into my life like that. and i don't give a **** about what anyone else does privately or with with others who are cool with it.
besides, the only way u could enforce stopping it would be fascism. **** taking over peoples lives and making their decisions for them. all the moralizing wackos should back off and stop passing judgment all right/wrong this or that on everything that people **** do in privacy when they don't hurt anyone by it.
there are two kinds of people in the world
those who masturbate
and those who say they don't
<!--QuoteBegin--everybody+ all the time--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (everybody @ all the time)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->no he didn't. where does it say that he did?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i LOVE IT!! XD
edit: everyone always says that.. hahaha X.D
he was a human being.
Actually, masturbating has the negative effect of conditioning you to a certain sexual response. If all you do is jack it, when you're with a girl you're not going to be enjoying it because you're trained yourself to value self love. It also desensitizes the peter to contact, making for some akward situations that could happen on you friend's couch when her parents aren't home and you need to be home in 15 minutes and you're still waiting to finish the job.
So I assume <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
HO-oh LEEEEEE sheepsh*t. where? even the church has acknowledged that masturbation isn't denounced in the bible.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you're still waiting to finish the job.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
typically untrue. i don't really need to explain, do i?
it's not like we're the first people to have this argument. it's been so many times, for me.. ugh.
but you, boggle, are making good progress. you've nailed the core of it, what jammer hinted at.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Mastubation is basically sex with yourself. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that is an assumption, an extrapolation.
1. technically, we can never know.
2. virtually or by extrapolation we can assume it is sin.
number 1 is my view. jesus = human. human = instincts.
number 2 is the argument of the church. it's simply <i>not</i> in the bible, but it seems bad for reasons already stated.
and there we go, we solved it.
1. I went to Catholic school for over 12 years. I think I know whats a sin and whats not. Jacking it = a Sin, even if Jewish traditions. Its considered adultery for the mental and physical reasons. Do you know men were circumcized in the early culture? First, it kept sand outta there. Second, it reduced sexual stimulation so men would have less of an urge. Its also considered 'unclean' by Jewish law, unless I'm mistaken.
Do you have any proof the church hasn't denounced it? I have proof it does:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action." "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability
...
2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats from the Catechism (aka Master Rulebook) of the Catholic Church.
2. You're 16. I'm 18. I'm gonna take a stab and guess I have a good deal more experience in this realm than you do. Trust me. Also, it was a joke based on a true story.
Discrimination based on age is bad, mm'kay? I'm 15-years old and I know more about computers than my computer teacher. He's over 30 and has been using computer longer than I have.
i didn't know i was being disrespectful... sorry =\
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you have any proof the church hasn't denounced it? I have proof it does:
[proof]
Thats from the Catechism (aka Master Rulebook) of the Catholic Church. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
CHURCH HAAAATE masturbation...!!! i already knew that and said it.
but the BIBLE... teh bybol. the bible doesn't.
and do we want to be free from sin in the eyes of the church.. or in the eyes of god?
we're still following the normal trail of this discussion.
edit: the moral of the whole damn story is that god should have written our book himself -_-
that is an assumption, an extrapolation.
1. technically, we can never know.
2. virtually or by extrapolation we can assume it is sin.
number 1 is my view. jesus = human. human = instincts.
number 2 is the argument of the church. it's simply <i>not</i> in the bible, but it seems bad for reasons already stated.
and there we go, we solved it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dictionary definition:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Excitation of one's own or another's genital organs, usually to orgasm, by manual contact or means other than sexual intercourse<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Woody Allen:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Dont know masturbation, its sex with someone you love<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know that woody allen isnt the be all and end all of dictionary definitions, but his quote does show the general opinion of the population - masturbation is sex. It is not sexual iintercourse, but it has the same effect, namely, the orgasm (which is, unless you are roman catholic, the main reason why people have sex).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->jesus = human. human = instincts<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jesus = Human + God 100%. Human and 100% God. He had the human instincts because he was human, but he was also God, so he had the power to resist them. Jesus didnt masturbate.
[edit] I type too slow
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and do we want to be free from sin in the eyes of the church.. or in the eyes of god?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now that hit the nail right between the eyes. <b>What the church says isn't important</b> Think about it. The pope isnt going to be the one sitting on the throne saying who gets in and who goes to hell is he? I dont give a wooden nickle (i loved RA2) what the chuch says, I wont have to answer to them on judgement day. To answer your quesion Zig, we have to be free from sin in the eyes of God. The bible doesnt say anywhere that "thou shalt not masturbate", so, it is open to interpretation. The church decided to interpret it as saying that masturbation is wrong, but that was thier opinion. Most christians would say that it is wrong, but they have only interpreted it. at the end of the day, it is God's desicion, and you wont be excluded from heaven because you did. [/edit]
jesus was human, yes. one sent down by god.
but he ate...
and he drank...
and he breathed...
and he grew...
another extrapolation, then.... but now on my part.
edit: and regarding masturbation as sex, copulation is consecrated by our religion. that's why both lust and adultery are sins.
so masturbation without lust is...?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1 Corinthians 6
18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats as close as I could find doing an online search.
Thats not age discrimination, thats age reason. Computers != sex (oh but if they were <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ). You don't need to reach a certain maturity or age to understand the levels of computers. You do need to reach a certain age (variable) to reach the certainty or experience with sexual ideas.
IE, I don't know what being a senior citizen is like. i can know 3rd party knowledge, but I don't know what it is to exist as a senior. Does that make sense?
jesus was human, yes. one sent down by god.
but he ate...
and he drank...
and he breathed...
and he grew...
another extrapolation, then.... but now on my part.
edit: and regarding masturbation as sex, copulation is consecrated by our religion. that's why both lust and adultery are sins.
so masturbation without lust is...? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well Zig, to compromise, if masturbation isnt wrong then it is entirely possible Jesus did. In the event that it is wrong, then he definately didnt - I think even the hardline religious posters can agree with that.
As for Jammer - please dont confuse Catholic rules with "right and wrong". The Bible is the main point of reference (or should be the main point of reference) for morality in the Church. The Catholic Church is only on denomination, simply because they condemn it doesnt make it wrong.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and do we want to be free from sin in the eyes of the church.. or in the eyes of god?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now that hit the nail right between the eyes. <b>What the church says isn't important</b> Think about it. The pope isnt going to be the one sitting on the throne saying who gets in and who goes to hell is he? I dont give a wooden nickle (i loved RA2) what the chuch says, I wont have to answer to them on judgement day. To answer your quesion Zig, we have to be free from sin in the eyes of God. The bible doesnt say anywhere that "thou shalt not masturbate", so, it is open to interpretation. The church decided to interpret it as saying that masturbation is wrong, but that was thier opinion. Most christians would say that it is wrong, but they have only interpreted it. at the end of the day, it is God's desicion, and you wont be excluded from heaven because you did.
Jesus was a Jew. He was raised in a jewish society, he was the son of a jew, his mother was a jew. Heck, even his brothers were jews (half brothers anyway, you think Joseph abstained from Mary for all of Jesus' life?).
Jesus broke jewish law on several occasions. From assualting the coin vendors in the temple to not washing his hands before a meal to breaking the sabbath law.
Jesus is the son of god. Not God himself. Because he is the son of god, he is human. He had to eat and breathe like anyone else. He was not sinless (as evidenced by his actions) and it is therefore possible that he did masturbate.
Jesus was also fallible. Did he not cry out "My God My God, why have you abandoned me?" on the cross? If so, he was NOT god and could feel pain. If Jesus was infallible, as god is meant to be, then by reasoning, he should have known why god could not save him and would see past to a greater purpose for his suffering.
And the bible is not the be all and end all for every detail of Jesus' life. It does not say what he had for breakfast on his 12th birthday, therefore, mundane, personal and private things pass right under the radar of the bible. It covers the important events, just like any story.
Jesus was a Jew. He was raised in a jewish society, he was the son of a jew, his mother was a jew. Heck, even his brothers were jews (half brothers anyway, you think Joseph abstained from Mary for all of Jesus' life?).
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Jesus broke jewish law on several occasions. From assualting the coin vendors in the temple to not washing his hands before a meal to breaking the sabbath law.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Soes breaking the law mean you are a sinner? Jesus himself said that the law was not 'important' so to speak. It doesnt matter. "therefore there shall no flesh be justified in his sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin"
[edit] most of those 'sins' were sins commited by his disciples anyway [/edit]
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Jesus is the son of god. Not God himself. Because he is the son of god, he is human. He had to eat and breathe like anyone else. He was not sinless (as evidenced by his actions) and it is therefore possible that he did masturbate.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What actions? If he had sinned, everything would be different. are you saying that the only hope for man's salvation didnt work?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Jesus was also fallible. Did he not cry out "My God My God, why have you abandoned me?" on the cross? If so, he was NOT god and could feel pain. If Jesus was infallible, as god is meant to be, then by reasoning, he should have known why god could not save him and would see past to a greater purpose for his suffering.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He was falliable, he was human. The only thing is, he <i>didn't fail</i> He asked many times for God to take the "cup of suffering" away from him. but, where any other human would have run away, Jesus stayed and said "but not my will, but thine be done" That wsa where he succeeded. He could feel pain because he was human. he was infallible because he was God. He did know why God wouldnt save him, but, being God, he didnt need God to save him, he could have done it himself. That is where his inffalible nature comes in. He had to die to save humans. that was the greater purpose behind his suffering. His crying out shows how completely human he was, and the fact that he didnt save himself when he could shows how perfectly God he was.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And the bible is not the be all and end all for every detail of Jesus' life. It does not say what he had for breakfast on his 12th birthday, therefore, mundane, personal and private things pass right under the radar of the bible. It covers the important events, just like any story.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is the be all and end all, because there are no other accounts.
but the BIBLE... teh bybol. the bible doesn't. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ahhh... brings back memories of the Reformation <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
This is esentially one of the big splitting points between the Protestant denominations and the Catholic Church. Protestants believed that the Bible was the only true word, while the Catholic and Orthodox churches had always utilized oral tradition as well.
Interesting that the same old arguments come up time and time again. I suppose as long as people believe in this particular form of God, this argument will still be ongoing. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
EDIT:
Back on topic.
Masturbation is perfectly acceptable for me. Preferably in groups. LOL