My Theory
CommunistWithAGun
Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
<div class="IPBDescription">I feel it deserves its own thread</div> Ok, the key problems with communism are here.
1.)Greed
2.)Depresses ones want to strive for more.
I suggest fixing the one who wants to strive more. He wants to be successful, the he is to produce more. The more you produce, the more you can obviously get. This dosen't make it unequal because anyone who wants more "stuff" can strive to earn more. That satisfies ones need to be "better" They are allowed to think that way, but in all reality they really aren't. Everyone has the equal chance to produce more.
This fulfills greed, because the more you produce they more you can have, therefore causes more to be produced, allowing people to have more.
For example, you want a new computer. You go to ComputerStore. You tell them what type of computer you want, etc. Based on its overall value in man-hours, you are assinged to work for them for 8 hours a day, with two breaks, for five days. Because of so much production one wouldn't need to work all that much to earn the computer.
The people create the demand, and the supply, and would naturally scale itself on its own. If you want a lot of stuff, you work for it much like today. As time goes on less and less work is needed by the people until it gets to a point where nobody will have to work ever again. Robots for example would do all the work. (Please don't laugh at that) People could actually, someday, truly live, without being a slave to money. As with all things there would be a rough beginning, for example I probably wouldn't be alive to see that day, but its a gift for future generations. Soon, the central government would dissolve. Any problems that may come up could be delt with as a whole....If you see any huge flaws with this please point them out in a polite way so I can fix it.
Remember this is just a tiny piece of my total plan.
It almost isn't communism, and it dosen't have a name, but I think it could work if all the bugs get stamped out
Comments?
1.)Greed
2.)Depresses ones want to strive for more.
I suggest fixing the one who wants to strive more. He wants to be successful, the he is to produce more. The more you produce, the more you can obviously get. This dosen't make it unequal because anyone who wants more "stuff" can strive to earn more. That satisfies ones need to be "better" They are allowed to think that way, but in all reality they really aren't. Everyone has the equal chance to produce more.
This fulfills greed, because the more you produce they more you can have, therefore causes more to be produced, allowing people to have more.
For example, you want a new computer. You go to ComputerStore. You tell them what type of computer you want, etc. Based on its overall value in man-hours, you are assinged to work for them for 8 hours a day, with two breaks, for five days. Because of so much production one wouldn't need to work all that much to earn the computer.
The people create the demand, and the supply, and would naturally scale itself on its own. If you want a lot of stuff, you work for it much like today. As time goes on less and less work is needed by the people until it gets to a point where nobody will have to work ever again. Robots for example would do all the work. (Please don't laugh at that) People could actually, someday, truly live, without being a slave to money. As with all things there would be a rough beginning, for example I probably wouldn't be alive to see that day, but its a gift for future generations. Soon, the central government would dissolve. Any problems that may come up could be delt with as a whole....If you see any huge flaws with this please point them out in a polite way so I can fix it.
Remember this is just a tiny piece of my total plan.
It almost isn't communism, and it dosen't have a name, but I think it could work if all the bugs get stamped out
Comments?
Comments
I suggest you read 'Atlas Shrugged' and 'The Fountainhead'. Very long books, but many consider them the best writings of our time, and I agree.
I suggest you read 'Atlas Shrugged' and 'The Fountainhead'. Very long books, but many consider them the best writings of our time, and I agree. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
WTH?
This has very little in common with objectivism. Ayn Rand would gag reading CWAG's post. The part of Objectivism that relates to economics states in a nutshell, "economics and government should be as separate as religion and government." It also states that earning money is the most moral thing a person can do, and that altruism is the pinnacle of evil.
You work and get some money based on the work you put into it. the more you work the more you can buy.
of course in a kind of communism nobody should be able to akkumelate wast amounts of money so there is a difference.
All you have to do is stop the people from abusing it without abusing them.
1.)Greed
2.)Depresses ones want to strive for more.
I suggest fixing the one who wants to strive more. He wants to be successful, the he is to produce more. The more you produce, the more you can obviously get. This dosen't make it unequal because anyone who wants more "stuff" can strive to earn more. That satisfies ones need to be "better" They are allowed to think that way, but in all reality they really aren't. Everyone has the equal chance to produce more.
This fulfills greed, because the more you produce they more you can have, therefore causes more to be produced, allowing people to have more.
For example, you want a new computer. You go to ComputerStore. You tell them what type of computer you want, etc. Based on its overall value in man-hours, you are assinged to work for them for 8 hours a day, with two breaks, for five days. Because of so much production one wouldn't need to work all that much to earn the computer.
The people create the demand, and the supply, and would naturally scale itself on its own. If you want a lot of stuff, you work for it much like today. As time goes on less and less work is needed by the people until it gets to a point where nobody will have to work ever again. Robots for example would do all the work. (Please don't laugh at that) People could actually, someday, truly live, without being a slave to money. As with all things there would be a rough beginning, for example I probably wouldn't be alive to see that day, but its a gift for future generations. Soon, the central government would dissolve. Any problems that may come up could be delt with as a whole....If you see any huge flaws with this please point them out in a polite way so I can fix it.
Remember this is just a tiny piece of my total plan.
It almost isn't communism, and it dosen't have a name, but I think it could work if all the bugs get stamped out
Comments? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude.
You just described pure CAPITALISM, except Capitalism converts 'work allocation' (do X much for X) into money that can be spent for any service.
Haha!
1.)Greed
2.)Depresses ones want to strive for more.
I suggest fixing the one who wants to strive more. He wants to be successful, the he is to produce more. The more you produce, the more you can obviously get. This dosen't make it unequal because anyone who wants more "stuff" can strive to earn more. That satisfies ones need to be "better" They are allowed to think that way, but in all reality they really aren't. Everyone has the equal chance to produce more.
This fulfills greed, because the more you produce they more you can have, therefore causes more to be produced, allowing people to have more.
For example, you want a new computer. You go to ComputerStore. You tell them what type of computer you want, etc. Based on its overall value in man-hours, you are assinged to work for them for 8 hours a day, with two breaks, for five days. Because of so much production one wouldn't need to work all that much to earn the computer.
The people create the demand, and the supply, and would naturally scale itself on its own. If you want a lot of stuff, you work for it much like today. As time goes on less and less work is needed by the people until it gets to a point where nobody will have to work ever again. Robots for example would do all the work. (Please don't laugh at that) People could actually, someday, truly live, without being a slave to money. As with all things there would be a rough beginning, for example I probably wouldn't be alive to see that day, but its a gift for future generations. Soon, the central government would dissolve. Any problems that may come up could be delt with as a whole....If you see any huge flaws with this please point them out in a polite way so I can fix it.
Remember this is just a tiny piece of my total plan.
It almost isn't communism, and it dosen't have a name, but I think it could work if all the bugs get stamped out
Comments? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude.
You just described pure CAPITALISM, except Capitalism converts 'work allocation' (do X much for X) into money that can be spent for any service.
Haha! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's got you there CWAG. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Dude.
You just described pure CAPITALISM, except Capitalism converts 'work allocation' (do X much for X) into money that can be spent for any service.
Haha! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are some differences. His system doesn't allow you to save money, or to have your money work for you, or to buy people off with money, because there is no money.
I'm a little curious though as to how a technologically illiterate person would be able to work to get a computer.
That's how Capitalism works, not to mention our current Federalistic system, greed is the defining factor of, selfishness was the whole basis on why our government works, and why communism fails.
People eventually become decadent and antisocial, relying ever more on robots to do menial tasks, such as scrathing their backs, for them.
If there are to be robotic economies, it must be implemented with controls. Too many robots doing tasks ever more trivial would eventually lead to cultural suicide.
If you dont understand my points, read the book that I recommended, it explains my points...
Dude.
You just described pure CAPITALISM, except Capitalism converts 'work allocation' (do X much for X) into money that can be spent for any service.
Haha! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are some differences. His system doesn't allow you to save money, or to have your money work for you, or to buy people off with money, because there is no money.
I'm a little curious though as to how a technologically illiterate person would be able to work to get a computer. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The wouldn't have to do actual manufacturing. They can just carry boxes around or work in the cafeteria. I like the concept. I'm going to start a company that works that way!
Ba-ZING!
CWAG's system doesn't allow for saving, but it actually does. What happens when people are too old to work/contribute? Society would need to support them. With what resources? Well, the only fair way, under the modified system, would be to support people with what they put into the system. In escence, it would be forced IRAs.
Capitalism Civilizes Greed.
Greed is a apart of human nature, and Capitalism directs it so it helps the most people.
Anyway I said this in the other thread ("next-gen communism"), I explained through social and historical examples how human nature was not universal and how it played no part in the downfall of the USSR. I'm no great debater but please read that and tell me how you think. I'm all up for a big debate between us so please reply in that thread if you must.
1.)Greed
2.)Depresses ones want to strive for more.
I suggest fixing the one who wants to strive more. He wants to be successful, the he is to produce more. The more you produce, the more you can obviously get. This dosen't make it unequal because anyone who wants more "stuff" can strive to earn more. That satisfies ones need to be "better" They are allowed to think that way, but in all reality they really aren't. Everyone has the equal chance to produce more.
This fulfills greed, because the more you produce they more you can have, therefore causes more to be produced, allowing people to have more.
For example, you want a new computer. You go to ComputerStore. You tell them what type of computer you want, etc. Based on its overall value in man-hours, you are assinged to work for them for 8 hours a day, with two breaks, for five days. Because of so much production one wouldn't need to work all that much to earn the computer.
The people create the demand, and the supply, and would naturally scale itself on its own. If you want a lot of stuff, you work for it much like today. As time goes on less and less work is needed by the people until it gets to a point where nobody will have to work ever again. Robots for example would do all the work. (Please don't laugh at that) People could actually, someday, truly live, without being a slave to money. As with all things there would be a rough beginning, for example I probably wouldn't be alive to see that day, but its a gift for future generations. Soon, the central government would dissolve. Any problems that may come up could be delt with as a whole....If you see any huge flaws with this please point them out in a polite way so I can fix it.
Remember this is just a tiny piece of my total plan.
It almost isn't communism, and it dosen't have a name, but I think it could work if all the bugs get stamped out
Comments? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude.
You just described pure CAPITALISM, except Capitalism converts 'work allocation' (do X much for X) into money that can be spent for any service.
Haha! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess I'll have to spend 3 hours typical a gigantic post later because people don't undestand it, and please don't confuse it with something like capitalism, I consider it a flame <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://www.321gold.com/fed/greenspan/1966.html' target='_blank'>Gold and Economic Freedom</a>
Your system, besides being tyrannical, would lead to gross inefficiency, provided you somehow managed to eliminate the concept of money completely. Money has always existed in some form or another. I heard the USSR used alchohol for the black market, and playing cards were used in the Middle Ages, simply because money is such a basic concept of advanced economies.
What If my profession is useless to the store I want to buy something from? How does a computer programmer buy fish from a fisherman if he can't fish? Or vice versa. Specialization is what seperates todays economies from the primitive ones they evolved from. How efficiently can a researcher research if he has to fish for food an make his own clothing, or in your case, to work for a fisherman and a clothier?
But it will definitely wither, along with crime, drug use, even old economic institutions like the family, once conflict is gone from our society. It's not the most important thing in our lives--for example, if you are out with your friends, is money what's important or is having a good time what you want?
But it will definitely wither, along with crime, drug use, even old economic institutions like the family, once conflict is gone from our society. It's not the most important thing in our lives--for example, if you are out with your friends, is money what's important or is having a good time what you want? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hard to have a good time lying in the gutter with rain coming down on you because you have no money. If you're going to present a theory on why the use of money will decline then do so, instead of spitting out unjustified statements.
But yes, this isn't much like OBjectivism, but parts of the concept are there.
Imagine paying off your electric bill...
Your system is not set up with human nature in mind regardless of what you wish to believe. It will become corrupt one way or another. Then what?
I'd like to buy a HUGE plot of land and section it out. Allow 10,000 people on each plot with "pure" government ideals (pure communism, pure capitolism, etc) run things there. Essentially a small self contained country built to test out methods of governing. Who knows, you could learn alot. Big science experiment, lol.
It is very much similar, with money simply being used to represent the goods and services you need. It wouldn't allow for a welfare state (that I can see) so a few people might be left out.
If i'm understanding it correctly, EVERYONE earns roughly the same pay if you do the same amount of work, but if you decide to work harder, your pay (or equivalent) increases to reflect that. A sort of quasi-communist/capitalist idea. If I it's what I think it is.
Very nice idea CWAG.
So if I use my calculator too much it might become self aware?
Time to get the hammer and do some prevention of self awareness. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
1.)Greed
2.)Depresses ones want to strive for more.
I suggest fixing the one who wants to strive more. He wants to be successful, the he is to produce more. The more you produce, the more you can obviously get. This dosen't make it unequal because anyone who wants more "stuff" can strive to earn more. That satisfies ones need to be "better" They are allowed to think that way, but in all reality they really aren't. Everyone has the equal chance to produce more.
This fulfills greed, because the more you produce they more you can have, therefore causes more to be produced, allowing people to have more.
For example, you want a new computer. You go to ComputerStore. You tell them what type of computer you want, etc. Based on its overall value in man-hours, you are assinged to work for them for 8 hours a day, with two breaks, for five days. Because of so much production one wouldn't need to work all that much to earn the computer.
The people create the demand, and the supply, and would naturally scale itself on its own. If you want a lot of stuff, you work for it much like today. As time goes on less and less work is needed by the people until it gets to a point where nobody will have to work ever again. Robots for example would do all the work. (Please don't laugh at that) People could actually, someday, truly live, without being a slave to money. As with all things there would be a rough beginning, for example I probably wouldn't be alive to see that day, but its a gift for future generations. Soon, the central government would dissolve. Any problems that may come up could be delt with as a whole....If you see any huge flaws with this please point them out in a polite way so I can fix it.
Remember this is just a tiny piece of my total plan.
It almost isn't communism, and it dosen't have a name, but I think it could work if all the bugs get stamped out
Comments? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude.
You just described pure CAPITALISM, except Capitalism converts 'work allocation' (do X much for X) into money that can be spent for any service.
Haha! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's got you there CWAG. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
seconded
read about the labor theory of value.
read about the labor theory of value. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Define "when there is demand". How much demand, under what circumstances, what is acceptable demand, etc.
The fact that you are willing to pay more for things that took fewer man hours to produce should discredit this immediately.