<!--QuoteBegin--relsan+Nov 1 2003, 10:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (relsan @ Nov 1 2003, 10:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Ryo-Ohki+Oct 30 2003, 04:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Oct 30 2003, 04:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The Constellation playtesting team stands ready to playtest Nancy! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Excellent work guys, a truely inspired effort. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> btw what is constellation? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You donate to NS. Get a little icon next to your name, and recieve a special "prize" as thanks for your donation. (No, dont tell him what the prize is)
Constellation is run by Flayra. It allows people to make donations to keep NS going, and without Constellation, people wouldn't be playing NS today. If you donate more than $20 US you get a shiny blue icon! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> 2.1 playtesting was also recently opened up to Constellation members as a way of thanks from Flayra. More information is on the front page under the heading "Constellation".
Hope that clears things up.
EDIT: Curse you Ha.ze! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--niaccurshi+Nov 1 2003, 06:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (niaccurshi @ Nov 1 2003, 06:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hmmm, isn't it getting a little late to be adding another whole map into 2.1? Hopefully not <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
-Lee <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Why would it be too late? Its not out yet.
Also I think nancy would require less playtesting since it has already passed it once. It would probably be to just ensure that everything is compatible and smooth flowing with 2.0(1) changes.
Indeed; the map is already balanced, and this is just a remake. Minor tweaks may be neccessary, but I think overall it'll be good.
I don't think 2.1n is as close as Flayra would have us believe; There are still a bunch of bugs, including the server CPU bug, and IMO combat still needs fixing/balancing.
EDIT: /me points to member count: <----- Don't remeber seeing that before... Wish I'd registered a day earlier, would have had a much lower number if I registered before the 1.0 release instead of just after it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
It's a remake, but balancing still needs to be done. Remeber how Eclipse, Lost, Hera, and so on all got major reworks for 2.0 from 1.x? The same stuff *may* need to happen to Nancy.
And personally, I don't think 2.1 is anywhere near release just yet. At the moment, the Kharaa constantly lose to any marine team who isn't stupid enough to build on each other. Fades, Onii, and Lerks need big balancing reworks, which many are reluctant about. It'll be a while. Hopefully, Nancy will make it into the PT so once all of the problems are fixed, it'll receive an official re-release.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And personally, I don't think 2.1 is anywhere near release just yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Keepign working at it guys, cant wait for nancy tbh as it looks amazing <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Nov 2 2003, 08:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Nov 2 2003, 08:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And personally, I don't think 2.1 is anywhere near release just yet. At the moment, the Kharaa constantly lose to any marine team who isn't stupid enough to build on each other. Fades, Onii, and Lerks need big balancing reworks, which many are reluctant about. It'll be a while. Hopefully, Nancy will make it into the PT so once all of the problems are fixed, it'll receive an official re-release. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't like the sound of this "update"...
It's a side-effect of the 'fixed' hitbox issues. Oni used to have only 1-in-4 bullets hit them, for instance, and Fades were effectively immune to anything hitting above their shoulders, and Lerks were usually noticably 'above' their actual hitboxes.
Now, you aim at them and you hit them. So suddenly they all die in a heartbeat, because there's no longer artificial 'errors' in their visual positions in comparison to their actual hittable positions, so it's a LOT easier to hit them.
Needless to say, I'd wager they end up having to really re-do all the math for most of the classes, especially the Onos. And they can't just up the health and armor of everything... try doing the math for an onos with 2000 hp and 1000 armor. Then figure out how long it'll take to HEAL that much... then compare that to just picking up Regeneration, which is a fixed PERCENTAGE of your health/armor healed every tick.
Interesting... I guess the practical first step would be to revert some of the stats back to their mighty 2.0 attributes. Especially movement speed.
Oh, umm... on-topic... on-topic... neec to say something on-topic... uhhh...
Nancy is awesome! Yay, Nancy! Is it done yet? Try and see if you can tweak those light fixtures over the tables in the readyroom! They didn't look quite right to me.
<!--QuoteBegin--WolfWings+Nov 2 2003, 01:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WolfWings @ Nov 2 2003, 01:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->try doing the math for an onos with 2000 hp and 1000 armor. Then figure out how long it'll take to HEAL that much... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> KILLING that kind of thing would be a long and a 'bit' difficult operation too <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Xav!er+Nov 2 2003, 12:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xav!er @ Nov 2 2003, 12:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--WolfWings+Nov 2 2003, 01:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WolfWings @ Nov 2 2003, 01:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->try doing the math for an onos with 2000 hp and 1000 armor. Then figure out how long it'll take to HEAL that much... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> KILLING that kind of thing would be a long and a 'bit' difficult operation too <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The thing is, it isn't any more difficult than killing the current 500/150 onos with it's screwed up hitbox. Onos crrently don't live so long due to their health; they live that long because most of the time the marines shooting them can't hit them. Now that a large portion of shots will actually hit, they drop like flies with 500/150 health.
On a side note, why can't regen just heal a certain number of health points, rather than a percentage? It would be easier to balance.
IMHO reducing the damage of marine weapons would be better.
With reguads to nancy, I hope some serious thought is given to the removal of the "moving" doors. They were removed from most other maps for a good reason.
They were removed due to three reasons. Collision issues, 'crushing' problems, and entity counts.
The collision issues are easilly resolved, I figured out the bug and how to fix them. I posted about it in these forums, in fact. =^.^=
The 'crushing' problems are a part of Nancy doors, since they are all only usable once every 3 seconds, and take 1 second delay before actually triggering. They're meant to be used to 'crush' the enemy occasionally, that's always been one of the things that happened occasionally on Nancy. =^.^=
The entity counts are a complete non-issue with Nancy, because it has very few entity-chewing 'environmental' effects, like particle streams. When we were checking things, we hasn't even broken 200 entities, and I get the feeling we'll be around 150-175 for a final count, even counting easter eggs and so-forth. =^.^=
Oh man, would you look at that. This thread has almost beaten the "post your screenshots" thread in terms of views. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> PS Yarges. I had to shrink is considerably... size limit too small!
<!--QuoteBegin--2_of_8+Nov 2 2003, 09:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (2_of_8 @ Nov 2 2003, 09:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh man, would you look at that. This thread has almost beaten the "post your screenshots" thread in terms of views. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> PS Yarges. I had to shrink is considerably... size limit too small! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> no...thats the highest number the view count can store.
It's all part of the wonderful world of binary number theory. Look up two's complement and such in google if you want to know why we use the number 32767 as the maximum number for the short int. (That's 2^16 bits) A unit used by programmers, et al.
And the reason a short int was used is because... well it is obviously smaller than a normal or a long int! Smaller = less memory = happier server admins!
(Although, they probably could have used an unsigned int, seeing as to how you can't have a negative number of views and then it could be double the number...
but I think a lack of foresight of that nature is the cause of that glitch! What kind of board would have threads looked at 10000 times let alone 32767 times! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--i'm lost+Nov 2 2003, 06:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (i'm lost @ Nov 2 2003, 06:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->On a side note, why can't regen just heal a certain number of health points, rather than a percentage? It would be easier to balance.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yea, but set different numer of health points for different Kharaa evolutions (ex: <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> = 3, <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> = 13)
ohhh yea, the topic ... uhh
did u guys talk to map playtesters for ns 2.1 patch? they could give some hint's about the things that were bad/good in other maps. It could save some time, 'cuz I'm sure that nancy will have to go through various tests and probably u will have to edit sth :/
<!--QuoteBegin--BigDXLT+Nov 3 2003, 05:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BigDXLT @ Nov 3 2003, 05:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That, is the max size of a "short int".
It's all part of the wonderful world of binary number theory. Look up two's complement and such in google if you want to know why we use the number 32767 as the maximum number for the short int. (That's 2^16 bits) A unit used by programmers, et al. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> In binary: 32767 = 111111111111111 Which makes perfect sense for why it's the largest number you can have with "signed" 16 bits. The 16th bit indicates positive or negative. You could get a 16bit integer to 65535 (familiar looking number?) if you assumed all numbers were positive... so an unsigned 16bit number can be as large as that.
I wonder why they used signed 16bit, we clearly cannot have negative views <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Progress Report: I've been out most of the weekend so not much got done to it, but I've been working hard all tonight finding the remaining few leaks so I can get a compile out within the next couple of days. (possibly tonight if all goes well) I have managed to located one of about 2-4 leaks that are in the map right now. After this will be putting the rest of the players starts and working on placing the remaining ambient sounds until I know that wolfwings is ready to take the .rmf file and do a quick look over before compiling and getting it sent to flayra for 2.1 beta testing. I'm happy.
I think I know how he found that leak. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Alright take your time ATi. The final rad file isn't needed till the final compile. As long as lighting looks ok for the beta we are fine. I have just found the remaning leaks and am now trying to add all the player starts. I know WolfWings did a really good job of player start placement in a .map file he sent me a little while back but I think I have lost that file so I need it to be sent over again. Otherwise the map compiles and is structurally complete. I have noticed some texture alignment errors but I'm not going to touch any of it till I get the player starts in and a beta of the map goes to Flayra for 2.1 testing. After that I can continue to make the final adjustments with WolfWings and we can get out a final.
If you need the player start entities, I still have them all, Ready Room, Marine Start, and all three hives. I can pull those out and send em' your way?
Yes send right now, I'll add them in then send the map back your way for a quick look over and compile. I'm leaving in about a half hour and probably won't be back till tomorrow. But I should be able to get you all the stuff you need in the next half hour or so.
Comments
Excellent work guys, a truely inspired effort. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
btw what is constellation?
Excellent work guys, a truely inspired effort. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
btw what is constellation? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You donate to NS. Get a little icon next to your name, and recieve a special "prize" as thanks for your donation. (No, dont tell him what the prize is)
Hope that clears things up.
EDIT: Curse you Ha.ze! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
-Lee <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why would it be too late? Its not out yet.
I don't think 2.1n is as close as Flayra would have us believe; There are still a bunch of bugs, including the server CPU bug, and IMO combat still needs fixing/balancing.
EDIT: /me points to member count:
<-----
Don't remeber seeing that before... Wish I'd registered a day earlier, would have had a much lower number if I registered before the 1.0 release instead of just after it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
And personally, I don't think 2.1 is anywhere near release just yet. At the moment, the Kharaa constantly lose to any marine team who isn't stupid enough to build on each other. Fades, Onii, and Lerks need big balancing reworks, which many are reluctant about. It'll be a while. Hopefully, Nancy will make it into the PT so once all of the problems are fixed, it'll receive an official re-release.
Seconded. A lot of work left to do.
I don't like the sound of this "update"...
Now, you aim at them and you hit them. So suddenly they all die in a heartbeat, because there's no longer artificial 'errors' in their visual positions in comparison to their actual hittable positions, so it's a LOT easier to hit them.
Needless to say, I'd wager they end up having to really re-do all the math for most of the classes, especially the Onos. And they can't just up the health and armor of everything... try doing the math for an onos with 2000 hp and 1000 armor. Then figure out how long it'll take to HEAL that much... then compare that to just picking up Regeneration, which is a fixed PERCENTAGE of your health/armor healed every tick.
It's not an easy problem to solve. =-.-=
Oh, umm... on-topic... on-topic... neec to say something on-topic... uhhh...
Nancy is awesome! Yay, Nancy! Is it done yet? Try and see if you can tweak those light fixtures over the tables in the readyroom! They didn't look quite right to me.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> KILLING that kind of thing would be a long and a 'bit' difficult operation too <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> KILLING that kind of thing would be a long and a 'bit' difficult operation too <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing is, it isn't any more difficult than killing the current 500/150 onos with it's screwed up hitbox. Onos crrently don't live so long due to their health; they live that long because most of the time the marines shooting them can't hit them. Now that a large portion of shots will actually hit, they drop like flies with 500/150 health.
On a side note, why can't regen just heal a certain number of health points, rather than a percentage? It would be easier to balance.
With reguads to nancy, I hope some serious thought is given to the removal of the "moving" doors. They were removed from most other maps for a good reason.
- Kar
The collision issues are easilly resolved, I figured out the bug and how to fix them. I posted about it in these forums, in fact. =^.^=
The 'crushing' problems are a part of Nancy doors, since they are all only usable once every 3 seconds, and take 1 second delay before actually triggering. They're meant to be used to 'crush' the enemy occasionally, that's always been one of the things that happened occasionally on Nancy. =^.^=
The entity counts are a complete non-issue with Nancy, because it has very few entity-chewing 'environmental' effects, like particle streams. When we were checking things, we hasn't even broken 200 entities, and I get the feeling we'll be around 150-175 for a final count, even counting easter eggs and so-forth. =^.^=
PS Yarges. I had to shrink is considerably... size limit too small!
PS Yarges. I had to shrink is considerably... size limit too small! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
no...thats the highest number the view count can store.
It's all part of the wonderful world of binary number theory. Look up two's complement and such in google if you want to know why we use the number 32767 as the maximum number for the short int. (That's 2^16 bits) A unit used by programmers, et al.
And the reason a short int was used is because... well it is obviously smaller than a normal or a long int! Smaller = less memory = happier server admins!
(Although, they probably could have used an unsigned int, seeing as to how you can't have a negative number of views and then it could be double the number...
but I think a lack of foresight of that nature is the cause of that glitch! What kind of board would have threads looked at 10000 times let alone 32767 times! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yes. Now let's get back on topic.
... umm ...
Keep up the great work guys!
yea, but set different numer of health points for different Kharaa evolutions
(ex: <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> = 3, <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> = 13)
ohhh yea, the topic ... uhh
did u guys talk to map playtesters for ns 2.1 patch? they could give some hint's about the things that were bad/good in other maps. It could save some time, 'cuz I'm sure that nancy will have to go through various tests and probably u will have to edit sth :/
It's all part of the wonderful world of binary number theory. Look up two's complement and such in google if you want to know why we use the number 32767 as the maximum number for the short int. (That's 2^16 bits) A unit used by programmers, et al. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
In binary: 32767 = 111111111111111
Which makes perfect sense for why it's the largest number you can have with "signed" 16 bits. The 16th bit indicates positive or negative. You could get a 16bit integer to 65535 (familiar looking number?) if you assumed all numbers were positive... so an unsigned 16bit number can be as large as that.
I've been out most of the weekend so not much got done to it, but I've been working hard all tonight finding the remaining few leaks so I can get a compile out within the next couple of days. (possibly tonight if all goes well) I have managed to located one of about 2-4 leaks that are in the map right now. After this will be putting the rest of the players starts and working on placing the remaining ambient sounds until I know that wolfwings is ready to take the .rmf file and do a quick look over before compiling and getting it sent to flayra for 2.1 beta testing.
I'm happy.
I don't know what crazy .rad file DD was using but it looked so good that I'm trying to get it as exact as possible.
~ DarkATi