people who intentionally tweak the variables to gain an edge... understandable.
people who use ogc/aimbots and external programs to gain an advantage? unforgivable.
but how do you tell the three apart?
like said earlier, this anti shadow program is useful for people having shodow issues to make them WORK. by removing the program he would have the same effect others have with it. how is that fair?
I fall under the second group. I tweak my rate to whatever gives me the lowest ping possible... but thats just common sense. I have my gamma at standard, but my monitor is at max and it looks about right.
Some people have dim monitors and cant see nothin, no matter how high you set it... how do you account for that?
you get right down to it, those variables are there for the user to set to his comfort, not for others to bicker about. as for malware... may the users burn for a thousand years in some mythical place... what else can we say?
"bhoping originated in quake, not HL...its not a bug"
all I can say is wow.. how much do you know about bhopping?
bhopping in quake and other fragfest games is nothing like the HL equivalent. you go the same speed in these games as you should. In HL you travel many many times faster than you do normally. comparing the two is like comparing apples to a state of the art laser cutting machine.
an apple cannot put out a gigawatt focused beam of IR.
I really don't mean any offense to anyone when I say this. I'm not a great NS player by any means, I've played in 2 scrims and got destroyed both times. And I'm really not trying to flame, or cause trouble, I'm just calling it like I see it. That said, on with my post (and hopefully not bringing the wrath of this thread upon myself).
It really sounds like you are complaining because other people are infringing on your once comfortable elitist lifestyle. You used to be the best, now there are others who have ascended to your ranks through whatever means (practice, scripts, whatever). Now you appeal to the governing body to change the rules in your favor rather than adapt. It sounds very elitist. The RIAA did the same thing. File sharing was cutting into their profits (ok, maybe it wasn't really but thats another topic) so rather than adapt to the new times and form a new business model they went to the government and tried to get filesharing made illegal. Even this example isn't the first time in history this has happend. People in positions of power and importance have always tried to change the rules in their favor to ensure the future survival of their position.
I guess I have to question why you feel so threatened.
If you honestly feel that to stay competetive you will have to resort to something you feel is dirty and you would rather not, then I salute you for standing up for what you beleive in. It is rare to find people with such moral convictions.
However (and I'm not imlpying this is the case, although it may be for some people) if people are pressuring CAL because they find it easier than adapting to the current tournament environment then they are either too lazy or afraid to adapt.
If you do believe that config changes/gama changes/scripting/etc are wrong then this introduces a whole new problem, that of a slippery slope. Many people agree that a bunny-hopping script is bad. However not all do. And for every exploint/config/script there will be a spectrum of opinoin on it. The problem comes in when you try to decide what is ok and what isn't ok. Who gets to choose? You who says scripting is wrong? Why, because you say so? because it encroaches on your turf? because you're the best? If not you, then who? Should it be put to a vote? Then you'd probably definitely be in the minority. The problem is that not everyone will be happy with the choice.
Ok since the post of elitist things was obviously pointed at HAM and clans of the type I should be able to respond from a resonable unbiased grounds. No one can accuse me of being elitist (hell can't even remember how to spell it now), I have allways been in the outsider clans. But I can say that this is an issue that effects everyone equally. The fact that HAM has pushed this shows an increadible amount about the character of their clan. Getting rid of cheating won't help ham, they'll win regardless of others cheating, it will help the mid to lower clans compete.
I've experimented with them and I don't regularly use them, but I dont mind the people that do. It doesnt matter how fast you are bhopping if you do it in a straight line
What bothers me is the deceit and the lying about it. Trying to hide the fact that you script just makes you look like a retard. It's painfully obvious to tell someone who uses a script from someone not using one, so why are you trying to hide it? If you are that ashamed you have to question why the hell you are using it in the first place. The best was when arguably one of the fastest bhoppers/scripters played ignorant and pretended he didnt know there was such thing as bunny hop scripts
Theres other exploits that give you much bigger advantages that are way more in line with cheating that I'd like to see abolished though.
But at the end of the day, if you can't play without scripts, and you have to LIE about using them, you really need to take a step back and think about what you are doing, and why.
<!--QuoteBegin--Future+Oct 27 2003, 10:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Future @ Oct 27 2003, 10:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My clan #cri. tries to scrim on our C-D server but most American clans refuse, saying how it doesn't work for some of their members. I personally think that it's utter bull****, but we've given up trying to enforce C-D after getting turned down for scrims. I bet if CAL makes C-D required then C-D would magically work for everyone.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Totally agreed, C-D should be in CAL and I totally support C-D being required, even if it does raise pings and lower fps just a little, it would be nice to have. However, WWCL I don't really think you need that, I mean from my experience its pretty buggy and doesnt really help much, besides CD does also block some variables in HL (Like ex_interp). I am all for anti cheats as long as they don't get in the way of the game too much.
HAMBoneProbably the best CommanderJoin Date: 2003-04-02Member: 15139Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
edited October 2003
I feel a little embarrassed that I have to defend myself in this thread but, no madcap, I have no exterior motives. Our match record isnt very impressive at all and at this point we really dont scrim enough to be considered a top clan. I made the post because I'm concerned about the community, and like I said, if people disagree with me then I will shut up and fade away =[
But honestly, I do think that if we scrimmed enough and put in the effort, that maybe we could do well without any external influences. But thats not the point, the point is that I have had alot of players confide in me their disgust about this very subject, and I have seen clans die who confidentially listed this as one of the reasons, and I thought it needed to be said.
Im really saddened that you guys obviously dont realize that the problem I stated in my post is the biggest problem in NS. If i were to tell you how easily it is done, and what it could actually do then you would agree with me but then too many lamers would do it. I told HAMBONE and STEAMEDHAM and they agree it is "wild ****"... all i gotta say is ns needs REAL freaking file consistency.
i dont get it y would yu sue it i mean the ppl made the game for u to have fun not to ruin it by hacking they spent long hours for u and u just spit in there face u ppl r shlt if u dont like the game and how its made dont play it if u so stuipd that u cant check dark corners then dont play the god damn game but always rember it is jsut a game win or lose if it means that much to u , u have problems. i think valve should step in and start banning cd keys the ppl that use hacks should jsut be banned no questions asked u dont like what the develpoers have done then f-off dont play the game. but i really think that would help maybe a add on for steam. SWG (star wars galaxies) has a scanner that scans ur file if u change a file that should be changes not like moventment keys then u can play the game if u do and try to ur cd key should be banned. y even let ppl do it jsut stop them. ppl well stop once ppl start getting there HL key banned. make it so they have to buy a new game make it not worth there time. that pisses me off i never knew thoses kinds of hacks were out there. its sad how ppl use them such useless ppl they are.
Competition really does suck *** when your playing with such an exploitable game engine. In fact, there have been over about 350 pubilc .DLL hooks(most of them are different versions of themselves to bypass cheat detection). That's why every clan match should be running cheating-death. This is the best anti-cheat out there. It completly blocks .dll hooks from even working. Trust me; I know from experience. I won't name sites where you get them from becuz I'll get banned probly(mods are always edgy about hacks)
Now about scripts...
Scripting is usefull, but it shouldn't be abused in a way that it exploits a bug. Bunnyhoping IS an exploit rather you believe so or not. It was never intended and I don't even try to get good at doing it because I know,one way or another, they're gonna remove it from NS too.
And... you're complaining about gamma settings? That's just graphics customization. If you want to be able to see clearly you should. Hiding in the dark as a skulk is cheap anyway and isn't very usefull to begin with.
You can only do so much with this 5-year-old engine. You would do well to know this.
Whoah, I'm not accusing anybody of anything. Whatever your motives I certainly won't judge you, I'm only trying to promote discussion since noone seems willing to ask any hard questions.
I just thought I had a good outsider view that might be worth bringing into the conversation.
Edit: And Marq did an excellent job of providing an example of the slippery slope problem. Some scripts are bad, some scripts are good. Who will draw the line? Where will it be drawn?
<!--QuoteBegin--Marq+Oct 27 2003, 11:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marq @ Oct 27 2003, 11:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Bunnyhoping IS an exploit rather you believe so or not. It was never intended and I don't even try to get good at doing it because I know,one way or another, they're gonna remove it from NS too.
And... you're complaining about gamma settings? That's just graphics customization. If you want to be able to see clearly you should. Hiding in the dark as a skulk is cheap anyway and isn't very usefull to begin with. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Are we playing the same game here?
bhopping is deemed legal for aliens...the question here is skillful bhopping vs scripted bhopping.
and hiding in the dark as skulk = cheap?! <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
MadCap, you CLEARLY accused them of being 'elitist'. You called their lifestyle 'elitist' and called HAM's response to be one of an 'elitist'.
I think a lot of people who say bunnyhopping is an exploit/hack/blah blah is because they've never done it or don't know how it works. A bunnyhopping script doesn't make you magically bhop, you have to activate the bind whenever you're close to hitting the ground. It takes a LOT of practice and skill to bhop, turn around and chomp marines, so much so that many would consider it a skill...
<!--QuoteBegin--Yumosis+Oct 27 2003, 11:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Yumosis @ Oct 27 2003, 11:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Future+Oct 27 2003, 10:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Future @ Oct 27 2003, 10:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My clan #cri. tries to scrim on our C-D server but most American clans refuse, saying how it doesn't work for some of their members. I personally think that it's utter bull****, but we've given up trying to enforce C-D after getting turned down for scrims. I bet if CAL makes C-D required then C-D would magically work for everyone.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Totally agreed, C-D should be in CAL and I totally support C-D being required, even if it does raise pings and lower fps just a little, it would be nice to have. However, WWCL I don't really think you need that, I mean from my experience its pretty buggy and doesnt really help much, besides CD does also block some variables in HL (Like ex_interp). I am all for anti cheats as long as they don't get in the way of the game too much. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree.
CAL, I'm actually <b>very ashamed and highly disappointed</b> that you never made C-D required for CAL. Not only does EVERY SINGLE CLANNER IN EXISTANCE remember that poll that asked if anti-hacks should be mandatory for CAL-NS (and the poll won hands down).
Not only that, but this discussion was brought to the forums; I presented unrefutable evidence of why C-D should be used, right <a href='http://forums.caleague.com/cgi-ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=000183' target='_blank'>here.</a>
CAL-Admins I hope you realize that by not making C-D and WWCL mandatory for CAL you have effectivly helped to bring down the overall level of competetive NS play.
I'm not trying to be personal, but I honestly feel very p|ssed that you never took any action on this, dispite numerious warnings from the community.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->bhopping is deemed legal for aliens...the question here is skillful bhopping vs scripted bhopping. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think a lot of people who say bunnyhopping is an exploit/hack/blah blah is because they've never done it or don't know how it works. A bunnyhopping script doesn't make you magically bhop, you have to activate the bind whenever you're close to hitting the ground. It takes a LOT of practice and skill to bhop, turn around and chomp marines, so much so that many would consider it a skill... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it was up to me bunnyhopping would be removed entirely. It's just a stupid exploit that takes away too much of the atmosphere in any half-life mod, and I don't give a **** if it takes "skillz" to use this exploit. I would have half a mind to use aimbots on bunnyhoping skulks, and leave my legit aiming skills to the legit players out there.
<!--QuoteBegin--Marq+Oct 27 2003, 11:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marq @ Oct 27 2003, 11:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->bhopping is deemed legal for aliens...the question here is skillful bhopping vs scripted bhopping. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think a lot of people who say bunnyhopping is an exploit/hack/blah blah is because they've never done it or don't know how it works. A bunnyhopping script doesn't make you magically bhop, you have to activate the bind whenever you're close to hitting the ground. It takes a LOT of practice and skill to bhop, turn around and chomp marines, so much so that many would consider it a skill... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it was up to me bunnyhopping would be removed entirely. It's just a stupid exploit that takes away too much of the atmosphere in any half-life mod, and I don't give a **** if it takes "skillz" to use this exploit. I would have half a mind to use aimbots on bunnyhoping skulks, and leave my legit aiming skills to the legit players out there. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Its not up to you. Its up to Flayra, that is what he decided.
And to think, I was just really proud of myself for finally being able to bhop somewhat consistently now.
I know that my clan still tries to hold the same standards we did in 1.04. Anyone caught using a script is booted. It's very simple. In our opinion, if you can't play without extra attachments, don't play with us. I am not attacking those that use scripts. I am merely stating that we don't accept those that use scripts.
<b>you can still set interp</b> in ns among other various expolits, interp is the biggest problem I belive, kind dumb that many of these issuse have gone unoticed. bug flay about it, because after 2.1 he is taking a few months off. add what hambone describes to an allready tiny clan community (with other problems), the result is more clans breaking up and a general loss of integrity
A quick note to all of those that think Cheating Death actually prevents cheating:
In less than 10 minutes of browsing the web, I have found cheats (wallhacks, aimbots) that are undetected by VAC and get around the current version of Cheating Death. Yes the next version will probably catch these but guess what, the cycle will just repeat itself when someone else retweaks the cheat to be undetected AGAIN. This folks, is whats called an 'exercise in futility'.
No I do not cheat, but I want to prove something to all the motards out there with CD REQ servers.
<!--QuoteBegin--Lux+Oct 27 2003, 11:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lux @ Oct 27 2003, 11:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <b>you can still set interp</b> in ns among other various expolits, interp is the biggest problem I belive, kind dumb that many of these issuse have gone unoticed. bug flay about it, because after 2.1 he is taking a few months off. add what hambone describes to an allready tiny clan community (with other problems), the result is more clans breaking up and a general loss of integrity <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> CD blocks interp changing as well
<!--QuoteBegin--Clan Hunter+Oct 28 2003, 12:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Clan Hunter @ Oct 28 2003, 12:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A quick note to all of those that think Cheating Death actually prevents cheating:
In less than 10 minutes of browsing the web, I have found cheats (wallhacks, aimbots) that are undetected by VAC and get around the current version of Cheating Death. Yes the next version will probably catch these but guess what, the cycle will just repeat itself when someone else retweaks the cheat to be undetected AGAIN. This folks, is whats called an 'exercise in futility'.
No I do not cheat, but I want to prove something to all the motards out there with CD REQ servers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> We should also remove docters, they can't save everyone so what's the damn point?
Cheating-Death is constantly updated, and the time it takes to fix a cheat is comparable to ten-fold of that amount that it takes to come up with a cheat.
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
edited October 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--Marq+Oct 28 2003, 12:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marq @ Oct 28 2003, 12:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its up to Flayra, that is what he decided.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll be using an aimbot against bunnyhoppers then just to **** them off( because if you're taking it up at this point, I say "screw the legit crap. ima own j00 13337 style!!!"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry, but that's a very selfish statement. You're basically saying that you're going to get <b>your</b> way by any means and regardless of what anyone else thinks. That's really not a good attitude.
<!--QuoteBegin--Marq+Oct 27 2003, 11:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marq @ Oct 27 2003, 11:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its not up to you. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I said "If", you moron.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its up to Flayra, that is what he decided.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll be using an aimbot against bunnyhoppers then just to **** them off( because if you're taking it up at this point, I say "screw the legit crap. ima own j00 13337 style!!!" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> heh, calm yeself, Marq.
Im just stating plainly that bhopping is considered legit, and theres nothing you can do to change that. No need for name calling and cheating <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Im just stating plainly that bhopping is considered legit, and theres nothing you can do to change that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
YOU ARE A MORON for repeating yourself about 4 times there.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That's a very selfish statement. You're basically saying that you're going to get your way by any means and regardless of what anyone else thinks. That's really not a good attitude. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aww... not happy about me aimboting bhopers? Might as well get over it lol
Something needs to be done. Currently nothing is being done. This is the problem. People will be less likely to try and cheat if there is the chance that they will be exposed, because the community does not quickly forget someone caught for cheating, because the community genuinly wishes it didn't exsist.
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--QuoteBegin--Marq+Oct 28 2003, 01:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marq @ Oct 28 2003, 01:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Aww... not happy about me aimboting bhopers? Might as well get over it lol <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I didn't say that; I was simply commenting on your attitude.
Comments
not possible.
people who intentionally tweak the variables to gain an edge... understandable.
people who use ogc/aimbots and external programs to gain an advantage?
unforgivable.
but how do you tell the three apart?
like said earlier, this anti shadow program is useful for people having shodow issues to make them WORK. by removing the program he would have the same effect others have with it. how is that fair?
I fall under the second group. I tweak my rate to whatever gives me the lowest ping possible... but thats just common sense. I have my gamma at standard, but my monitor is at max and it looks about right.
Some people have dim monitors and cant see nothin, no matter how high you set it... how do you account for that?
you get right down to it, those variables are there for the user to set to his comfort, not for others to bicker about. as for malware... may the users burn for a thousand years in some mythical place... what else can we say?
"bhoping originated in quake, not HL...its not a bug"
all I can say is wow.. how much do you know about bhopping?
bhopping in quake and other fragfest games is nothing like the HL equivalent. you go the same speed in these games as you should. In HL you travel many many times faster than you do normally. comparing the two is like comparing apples to a state of the art laser cutting machine.
an apple cannot put out a gigawatt focused beam of IR.
It really sounds like you are complaining because other people are infringing on your once comfortable elitist lifestyle. You used to be the best, now there are others who have ascended to your ranks through whatever means (practice, scripts, whatever). Now you appeal to the governing body to change the rules in your favor rather than adapt. It sounds very elitist. The RIAA did the same thing. File sharing was cutting into their profits (ok, maybe it wasn't really but thats another topic) so rather than adapt to the new times and form a new business model they went to the government and tried to get filesharing made illegal. Even this example isn't the first time in history this has happend. People in positions of power and importance have always tried to change the rules in their favor to ensure the future survival of their position.
I guess I have to question why you feel so threatened.
If you honestly feel that to stay competetive you will have to resort to something you feel is dirty and you would rather not, then I salute you for standing up for what you beleive in. It is rare to find people with such moral convictions.
However (and I'm not imlpying this is the case, although it may be for some people) if people are pressuring CAL because they find it easier than adapting to the current tournament environment then they are either too lazy or afraid to adapt.
If you do believe that config changes/gama changes/scripting/etc are wrong then this introduces a whole new problem, that of a slippery slope. Many people agree that a bunny-hopping script is bad. However not all do. And for every exploint/config/script there will be a spectrum of opinoin on it. The problem comes in when you try to decide what is ok and what isn't ok. Who gets to choose? You who says scripting is wrong? Why, because you say so? because it encroaches on your turf? because you're the best? If not you, then who? Should it be put to a vote? Then you'd probably definitely be in the minority. The problem is that not everyone will be happy with the choice.
So, in conclusion... don't hate me.
Edit: typos
I've experimented with them and I don't regularly use them, but I dont mind the people that do. It doesnt matter how fast you are bhopping if you do it in a straight line
What bothers me is the deceit and the lying about it. Trying to hide the fact that you script just makes you look like a retard. It's painfully obvious to tell someone who uses a script from someone not using one, so why are you trying to hide it? If you are that ashamed you have to question why the hell you are using it in the first place. The best was when arguably one of the fastest bhoppers/scripters played ignorant and pretended he didnt know there was such thing as bunny hop scripts
Theres other exploits that give you much bigger advantages that are way more in line with cheating that I'd like to see abolished though.
But at the end of the day, if you can't play without scripts, and you have to LIE about using them, you really need to take a step back and think about what you are doing, and why.
Totally agreed, C-D should be in CAL and I totally support C-D being required, even if it does raise pings and lower fps just a little, it would be nice to have. However, WWCL I don't really think you need that, I mean from my experience its pretty buggy and doesnt really help much, besides CD does also block some variables in HL (Like ex_interp). I am all for anti cheats as long as they don't get in the way of the game too much.
But honestly, I do think that if we scrimmed enough and put in the effort, that maybe we could do well without any external influences. But thats not the point, the point is that I have had alot of players confide in me their disgust about this very subject, and I have seen clans die who confidentially listed this as one of the reasons, and I thought it needed to be said.
Competition really does suck *** when your playing with such an exploitable game engine.
In fact, there have been over about 350 pubilc .DLL hooks(most of them are different versions of themselves to bypass cheat detection). That's why every clan match should be running cheating-death. This is the best anti-cheat out there. It completly blocks .dll hooks from even working. Trust me; I know from experience. I won't name sites where you get them from becuz I'll get banned probly(mods are always edgy about hacks)
Now about scripts...
Scripting is usefull, but it shouldn't be abused in a way that it exploits a bug. Bunnyhoping IS an exploit rather you believe so or not. It was never intended and I don't even try to get good at doing it because I know,one way or another, they're gonna remove it from NS too.
And... you're complaining about gamma settings? That's just graphics customization. If you want to be able to see clearly you should. Hiding in the dark as a skulk is cheap anyway and isn't very usefull to begin with.
You can only do so much with this 5-year-old engine. You would do well to know this.
I just thought I had a good outsider view that might be worth bringing into the conversation.
Edit:
And Marq did an excellent job of providing an example of the slippery slope problem. Some scripts are bad, some scripts are good. Who will draw the line? Where will it be drawn?
And... you're complaining about gamma settings? That's just graphics customization. If you want to be able to see clearly you should. Hiding in the dark as a skulk is cheap anyway and isn't very usefull to begin with. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are we playing the same game here?
bhopping is deemed legal for aliens...the question here is skillful bhopping vs scripted bhopping.
and hiding in the dark as skulk = cheap?! <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
MadCap, you CLEARLY accused them of being 'elitist'. You called their lifestyle 'elitist' and called HAM's response to be one of an 'elitist'.
Totally agreed, C-D should be in CAL and I totally support C-D being required, even if it does raise pings and lower fps just a little, it would be nice to have. However, WWCL I don't really think you need that, I mean from my experience its pretty buggy and doesnt really help much, besides CD does also block some variables in HL (Like ex_interp). I am all for anti cheats as long as they don't get in the way of the game too much. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree.
CAL, I'm actually <b>very ashamed and highly disappointed</b> that you never made C-D required for CAL. Not only does EVERY SINGLE CLANNER IN EXISTANCE remember that poll that asked if anti-hacks should be mandatory for CAL-NS (and the poll won hands down).
Not only that, but this discussion was brought to the forums; I presented unrefutable evidence of why C-D should be used, right <a href='http://forums.caleague.com/cgi-ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=000183' target='_blank'>here.</a>
CAL-Admins I hope you realize that by not making C-D and WWCL mandatory for CAL you have effectivly helped to bring down the overall level of competetive NS play.
I'm not trying to be personal, but I honestly feel very p|ssed that you never took any action on this, dispite numerious warnings from the community.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think a lot of people who say bunnyhopping is an exploit/hack/blah blah is because they've never done it or don't know how it works. A bunnyhopping script doesn't make you magically bhop, you have to activate the bind whenever you're close to hitting the ground. It takes a LOT of practice and skill to bhop, turn around and chomp marines, so much so that many would consider it a skill...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it was up to me bunnyhopping would be removed entirely. It's just a stupid exploit that takes away too much of the atmosphere in any half-life mod, and I don't give a **** if it takes "skillz" to use this exploit. I would have half a mind to use aimbots on bunnyhoping skulks, and leave my legit aiming skills to the legit players out there.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think a lot of people who say bunnyhopping is an exploit/hack/blah blah is because they've never done it or don't know how it works. A bunnyhopping script doesn't make you magically bhop, you have to activate the bind whenever you're close to hitting the ground. It takes a LOT of practice and skill to bhop, turn around and chomp marines, so much so that many would consider it a skill...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it was up to me bunnyhopping would be removed entirely. It's just a stupid exploit that takes away too much of the atmosphere in any half-life mod, and I don't give a **** if it takes "skillz" to use this exploit. I would have half a mind to use aimbots on bunnyhoping skulks, and leave my legit aiming skills to the legit players out there. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its not up to you. Its up to Flayra, that is what he decided.
I know that my clan still tries to hold the same standards we did in 1.04. Anyone caught using a script is booted. It's very simple. In our opinion, if you can't play without extra attachments, don't play with us. I am not attacking those that use scripts. I am merely stating that we don't accept those that use scripts.
Nem...if you're not going let me flame back at him, just tell me next time and I can just private msg him.
In less than 10 minutes of browsing the web, I have found cheats (wallhacks, aimbots) that are undetected by VAC and get around the current version of Cheating Death. Yes the next version will probably catch these but guess what, the cycle will just repeat itself when someone else retweaks the cheat to be undetected AGAIN. This folks, is whats called an 'exercise in futility'.
No I do not cheat, but I want to prove something to all the motards out there with CD REQ servers.
CD blocks interp changing as well
In less than 10 minutes of browsing the web, I have found cheats (wallhacks, aimbots) that are undetected by VAC and get around the current version of Cheating Death. Yes the next version will probably catch these but guess what, the cycle will just repeat itself when someone else retweaks the cheat to be undetected AGAIN. This folks, is whats called an 'exercise in futility'.
No I do not cheat, but I want to prove something to all the motards out there with CD REQ servers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
We should also remove docters, they can't save everyone so what's the damn point?
You sir have made a rediculous post.
How is saying don't bother using something that honestly does nothing a rediculous post?
SHUDDUP YOU!!!!
I'll be using an aimbot against bunnyhoppers then just to **** them off( because if you're taking it up at this point, I say "screw the legit crap. ima own j00 13337 style!!!"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, but that's a very selfish statement. You're basically saying that you're going to get <b>your</b> way by any means and regardless of what anyone else thinks. That's really not a good attitude.
I said "If", you moron.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its up to Flayra, that is what he decided.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll be using an aimbot against bunnyhoppers then just to **** them off( because if you're taking it up at this point, I say "screw the legit crap. ima own j00 13337 style!!!" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
heh, calm yeself, Marq.
Im just stating plainly that bhopping is considered legit, and theres nothing you can do to change that. No need for name calling and cheating <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
YOU ARE A MORON for repeating yourself about 4 times there.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That's a very selfish statement. You're basically saying that you're going to get your way by any means and regardless of what anyone else thinks. That's really not a good attitude. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aww... not happy about me aimboting bhopers? Might as well get over it lol
I didn't say that; I was simply commenting on your attitude.