<!--QuoteBegin--FFT_Fangs+Oct 28 2003, 05:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FFT_Fangs @ Oct 28 2003, 05:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> When the smoke cleared the only config that was tweeked was hud_fastswitch 0 from its preset of 1. And to be honest I feel that even changing this is an unfair advantage, but I pushed for even more tweeking. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yea......hud_fastswitch isn't.....bad......yea.
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Oct 28 2003, 03:01 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Oct 28 2003, 03:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Graham+Oct 28 2003, 02:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Graham @ Oct 28 2003, 02:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also, its a really small download [like 250k] and doesnt affect hl performance in anyway, peopel that refuse to run it have somethign to hide or are just arguing for the sake of it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly, people who don't like C-D are full of it, tbh.
It prevents 90% of the hacks out there It stops some cvars like ex_interp No lag No CPU usage (unless you have 16 RAM... then ya, it would hurt)
FFS, it's a free meal, and yet I see people deny it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I used to be against c-d, just because I didn't want to be bothered with it, now I support it about 95% of the way.
I use to play in a clan with a guy who said C-D didn't work for him, always refused to use it, and was actually accused of hacking quite a bit for a fifteen year old :-\
<!--QuoteBegin--Sling_Blade+Oct 28 2003, 04:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sling_Blade @ Oct 28 2003, 04:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anytime you have an advantage that the other team is not aware of YOU ARE CHEATING plain and simple, even if the league you play in allows it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Plain and simple... ROFL. If it was so "plain and simple" do you really think we would be having a discussion about this? Don't present your fanatical views and then pretend it is a one sided issue. Go look up cheating in the dictionary. It says "to violate rules dishonestly". So if it is legal, it is not cheating. If you want to make up your own word whose definition is "anything I don't approve of" then be my guest, but stop trying to warp the meaning of the words we already have. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks for owning him. I'm really tired of the perversion of the word "cheat" on these forums. Some folks around here have just a bit too much high and mighty attitude when they have no idea what they are talking about.
Lets do this on L-A-N. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Your a goof 9129489484 whatever your number won id is :-p
<!--QuoteBegin--Sling_Blade+Oct 28 2003, 05:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sling_Blade @ Oct 28 2003, 05:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->5. Pistol scripts hurt more than help. You can click faster with your finger and you have precise control over how many bullets you fire <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually you can't. What prevents you from firing faster is the cap Flayra put on the pistol fire rate. Now that this is fixed it is no longer an exploit. I wouldn't touch pistol scripts back when it was like firing 1 huge shot. You can have control over how many bullets you fire with a script... it is just like an LMG. You can tap it or hold it down. But if you want to think that mashing your finger as fast as you can on your mouse gives your faster and more accurate firing... have fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, Sling Blide, Lucid may be correct on this.
The reason? You can't time the 'wait' command perfectly along with the speed cap, I do believe.
As for lucid being able to click that mouse1 button REALLY DAMN FAST - Yes he can do it, I've seen it done at a LAN center. He did it right along the speed cap, getting out all 5 of the bullets right under a second.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When the smoke cleared the only config that was tweeked was hud_fastswitch 0 from its preset of 1. And to be honest I feel that even changing this is an unfair advantage, but I pushed for even more tweeking. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I honestly can't believe people are this stingy about the game -
Next time you have dellima's about stuff like this Fangs, ask other people for some advice, you can learn new things that you woulda never knew before.
For example, <b>you could never consider hud_fastswitch "1" to be an exploit simply because anyone who goes through the HL menu's can easily toggle this option on/off; IT'S OBVIOUSLY MEANT TO BE IN THE GAME!</b>
Yeah. Silly silly. To anyone who says hud_fastswitch is an exploit - RTFM.
EDIT: Thanks lucid for pointing out the 5 at the speed cap that I missed.
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--QuoteBegin--Marq+Oct 28 2003, 06:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marq @ Oct 28 2003, 06:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All I do is speak my mind, and usually some **** will come up and start flaming me. In this case, it was that monkey guy...then you, not noticing the sarcasm in my post, added on to it. You two started the flame war not me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Um, no. Nothing monkey said to you was even close to a flame. I admit I got close to flaming, but I don't feel it was anywhere near the level of your posts.
Perhaps you weren't trying to start a 'flamewar', but your posts were so provocative that it certainly seemed like you were.
And Sling_Blade, I see. So such a script is possible. I stand corrected.
Forlorn~ I seriously doubt it. Have you ever used the script while out of ammo? It sounds like a freakin mini gun. That is MUCH faster than the speed cap, and any asynchorous behaviour between the two will be overcome by this. Besides, even if someone could fire slightly faster than the script I find the accuracy it gives me by not having to mash down a button as fast as I can to be well worth it.
<!--QuoteBegin--a civilian+Oct 28 2003, 05:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (a civilian @ Oct 28 2003, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Marq+Oct 28 2003, 06:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marq @ Oct 28 2003, 06:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All I do is speak my mind, and usually some **** will come up and start flaming me. In this case, it was that monkey guy...then you, not noticing the sarcasm in my post, added on to it. You two started the flame war not me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Um, no. Nothing monkey said to you was even close to a flame. I admit I got close to flaming, but I don't feel it was anywhere near the level of your posts.
Perhaps you weren't trying to start a 'flamewar', but your posts were so provocative that it certainly seemed like you were.
And Sling_Blade, I see. So such a script is possible. I stand corrected. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> In contrast, Marq has outright flamed me...twice.
As well, he continues to talk about bhopping where it is obviously not the topic of this thread. If you are unhappy about this game's stance on bhopping, make a separate thread and complain there. This is not the place.
And thanks civilian, I appreciate that. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Seriously? Like how would a bhop script help if it did more than jump? You would have no control over where you were going. Sounds pretty stupid to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> rgr dgr sling. Stupiest thing in the world. You can control yourself to some extent but it doesn't function very well. I just wanted to make sure everyone is talking about the same thing. Some people hear bhop script and instantly think its some 1 action speed demon script. The script people are talking about in this thread is a "jump" script because thats all that it performs.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For even ground, yes. But things like jumping up/down ramps and over big drops take a LOT more practice, and I personally don't know of anyone who can jump up a steep ramp the way a hopping script can.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> eh, maybe not too much more practice. I kinda see your point though.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually you can't. What prevents you from firing faster is the cap Flayra put on the pistol fire rate. Now that this is fixed it is no longer an exploit. I wouldn't touch pistol scripts back when it was like firing 1 huge shot. You can have control over how many bullets you fire with a script... it is just like an LMG. You can tap it or hold it down. But if you want to think that mashing your finger as fast as you can on your mouse gives your faster and more accurate firing... have fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've done it. Tested it. Had it witnessed. That includes 1.0x. It's not that hard. and i'm no less accurate while clicking fast than if i click slow. I actually think my accuracy improves when I get in a fast groove.
- To anyone who thinks that mwheel is faster than clicking.... it's not. Tested that too. Maybe people don't leave their finger on the mouse (taking it off is bad). I dunno why so many people have a hard time clicking fast.
- hud_fastswitch an exploit? laff. sorry
- forlorn, I think you meant 5 bullets in a second, not all. Thats impossible in 2.0
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Are we playing the same game here?
bhopping is deemed legal for aliens...the question here is skillful bhopping vs scripted bhopping.
and hiding in the dark as skulk = cheap?! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, so he had his oppinions, then... I just stated that IF (KEYWORD: IF) it was up to me bhoping would be removed because it's an exploit and all(you see I thought it would just be a good idea for competiton, this is how it relates to this subject)...then HE said.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its not up to you. Its up to Flayra, that is what he decided.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So he's like, WHAHAHAHA ITS NOT UP TO YOU ****!!! LOLOLOL. To me that's a flame. Civilian plz read posts more clearly.
Im just stating plainly that bhopping is considered legit, and theres nothing you can do to change that. No need for name calling and cheating <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here he repeats "WHAHAHAHA ITS NOT UP TO YOU ****!!! LOLOLOL." AGAIN just to pis me off.
That's two flames...so I outright FLAME YOU two times as well. We're even...unless you want to start some more.
<!--QuoteBegin--wizard@psu+Oct 27 2003, 08:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wizard@psu @ Oct 27 2003, 08:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Powerstrip is a program that is rampantly abused in NS.
I won't deny that I use it. However I have to because my video drivers reset my gamma and brightness to zero every time I start a game. I make sure that when I adjust my gamma that the shadows are still visible.
With regards to abusing scripts in competitive play, I cannot say that I am angered. It is a competition and you are in it to win. If it does not violate the rules of the match then there is little ground for you to stand on.
However I do feel that the rules should be tightened. Cyber-Athelete is no such thing until every competitor is on equal footing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I use PS as well as my combination of video card + monitor is such that virtually any full screen game I've ever played (HL and its mods included) is so dark as to be unplayable. There is a difference though between adjusting your gamma slightly vs cranking it up to 4.0 where you can see everything as bright as day.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I use PS as well as my combination of video card + monitor is such that virtually any full screen game I've ever played (HL and its mods included) is so dark as to be unplayable. There is a difference though between adjusting your gamma slightly vs cranking it up to 4.0 where you can see everything as bright as day. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Reguardless of this difference, I think everyone should be able to see skulks through thin air no matter where the location is on the map(meaning no matter how bright that part of the map is), because at this point, gamma locks are just flat out impractical.
Serious problem. Serious issues. Seriously needs to be enforced.
About the time I had my fill of CAL-CS and the CS community we struggled with issues that were mainly due to the hypocrisy of the leagues, players and admins. The level I was on demanded such absolute perfection from its users that you had to commit yourself to strict diets of play and fun was the fat. I know a lot of my fellow clanmates had to deal with serious issues and they simply turned to scripts, some times even hacks. And what the **** was I supposed to do? Be a critical parent, and discipline their actions with harsh words? Disdain their sins? Somewhere in the mess you get confused, find you have trouble resting your feet on stable ground. If you were to take a stand on something so controversial, would it cost you something dearly? I took the easy route, I just left pre-maturely. Done with those people, done with that entire issue.
I've seen this for about a year now in SC:BW(one of my most decorated and favorite games)where players are constantly using external gaming programs, and especially this freaking "WinBOT" that was released(for you SC fans that keep in contact with the sc world)by 'c0ke'. I knew this kid online! He was more or less a gaming buddy of mine back then, when he came out with the WinBOT. I never doubted he was a talented programmer, a friend. Yet did he betray me? So... I publicly insulted him and his entire commitee. Lost a friend for life. Hell of a sacrifice. Now its a public conformity to use the winbot. 1,000 people in the ladder lists, 9999 across the boards...
I'm not saying NS needs a boost of imitation and role modeling from aspiring people like HAMBONE here, but isn't it time to just wake the **** up? Moreover, when hacks and cheats become redundant and occassional I often here the excuse "this game is boring now so I hack to make it fun"... Please! I do not totally condone <i>anyones</i> actions to hack when they're bored, yet this does happen and the communities are therein swamped with cheaters. StarCraft, Diablo, CS, ... I hate to think that only after a year, NS is developing it.
<b>Scripts directly cheat. It's a hack. It's a fallacity. Straight up its ****. I don't believe in it. </b>
Is it really so hard to just stand up and say "I'm completely legit!" and take pride in that statement alone?
<!--QuoteBegin--Marq+Oct 28 2003, 08:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marq @ Oct 28 2003, 08:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Reguardless of this difference, I think everyone should be able to see skulks through thin air no matter where the location is on the map(meaning no matter how bright that part of the map is), because at this point, gamma locks are just flat out impractical. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That ruins the atmosphere of the game... And atmosphere is an extremely important part of any game. The shadows are there for a reason.
As to the part about you being flamed... Get real. You have not been flamed once. Reminding you that it is NOT up to you ( thank goodness ) is no more a flame than reminding you that your opinions ( especially after the "shadows are bad" bit ) are nothing more than opinions with nothing to back them up.
Holding an opinion is fine... Just have something substantial to back it up for once ( <-- friendly advice ).
Out of this entire thread, your posts have been the most humorous to me ( i.e. NOT a compliment ).
And if anyone is wondering about CAL... We will be implementing CD over the next 2 - 3 weeks. WWCL will not be implemented. Certain rules may be added regardless of our ability to enforce them ( i.e. <3 the honor system ).
Just an FYI though... I hail from the TFC community, so it seems I could be considered quite a bit more liberal than many here ( e.g. I've have NEVER considered hudfastswitch 0 to be in any way an exploit ). However, I do listen to the community and will do what I can ( within reason ) to keep everyone happy. I am extremely hesitant to require things other than a game and a server to play. I have been in leagues that have required a number of things just to be legal to play, and over time it wears on you.... You eventually just want to play the game. So I do my best to prevent that from happening to those that participate in my league.
If there are ever any questions or issues, I can always be reached via email ( othell@caleague.com ) and am on IRC quite often ( #caleague-ns ).
the day hudfastswitch 0 is considered an exploit is the day I jump off a bridge. It is not only a console command, but it is in your customization options in half life! jesus. It is meant to be part of the game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That ruins the atmosphere of the game... And atmosphere is an extremely important part of any game. The shadows are there for a reason. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe. I just think something like this is too hard to keep from being tampered with especially with an outdated game engine. I was essentually saying you could fix the "gamma cheating" problem just by eliminating this atmosphere. I know I kind of said this without backing it up. Perhaps I misjuged the population in these forums who see it my way.
While backing up an opinion may seem manditory to you, please understand I may not want to waste the time doing so(after all the opinion has it's chance of not being shot down)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As to the part about you being flamed... Get real. You have not been flamed once. Reminding you that it is NOT up to you ( thank goodness ) is no more a flame than reminding you that your opinions ( especially after the "shadows are bad" bit ) are nothing more than opinions with nothing to back them up. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who are you to say I have not been flamed once? It's how I took what was said that matters. Even though it may appear ignorant to you and the others, I have the right to decide for myself if I'm being insulted or not.
<!--QuoteBegin--othell+Oct 28 2003, 08:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (othell @ Oct 28 2003, 08:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Marq+Oct 28 2003, 08:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marq @ Oct 28 2003, 08:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Reguardless of this difference, I think everyone should be able to see skulks through thin air no matter where the location is on the map(meaning no matter how bright that part of the map is), because at this point, gamma locks are just flat out impractical. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That ruins the atmosphere of the game... And atmosphere is an extremely important part of any game. The shadows are there for a reason.
As to the part about you being flamed... Get real. You have not been flamed once. Reminding you that it is NOT up to you ( thank goodness ) is no more a flame than reminding you that your opinions ( especially after the "shadows are bad" bit ) are nothing more than opinions with nothing to back them up.
Holding an opinion is fine... Just have something substantial to back it up for once ( <-- friendly advice ).
Out of this entire thread, your posts have been the most humorous to me ( i.e. NOT a compliment ).
And if anyone is wondering about CAL... We will be implementing CD over the next 2 - 3 weeks. WWCL will not be implemented. Certain rules may be added regardless of our ability to enforce them ( i.e. <3 the honor system ).
Just an FYI though... I hail from the TFC community, so it seems I could be considered quite a bit more liberal than many here ( e.g. I've have NEVER considered hudfastswitch 0 to be in any way an exploit ). However, I do listen to the community and will do what I can ( within reason ) to keep everyone happy. I am extremely hesitant to require things other than a game and a server to play. I have been in leagues that have required a number of things just to be legal to play, and over time it wears on you.... You eventually just want to play the game. So I do my best to prevent that from happening to those that participate in my league.
If there are ever any questions or issues, I can always be reached via email ( othell@caleague.com ) and am on IRC quite often ( #caleague-ns ). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Awesome, Thanks othell glad to see something at least is being done.
<!--QuoteBegin--Marq+Oct 28 2003, 09:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marq @ Oct 28 2003, 09:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Maybe. I just think something like this is too hard to keep from being tampered with especially with an outdated game engine. I was essentually saying you could fix the "gamma cheating" problem just by eliminating this atmosphere. I know I kind of said this without backing it up. Perhaps I misjuged the population in these forums who see it my way.
While backing up an opinion may seem manditory to you, please understand I may not want to waste the time doing so(after all the opinion has it's chance of not being shot down)
Who are you to say I have not been flamed once? It's how I took what was said that matters. Even though it may appear ignorant to you and the others, I have the right to decide for myself if I'm being insulted or not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just because something can be abused does not mean it should be removed.
For your opinion to hold any merit you MUST back it up. Thinking otherwise is not ignorant, its stupid. Especially if it is not backed up because you fear it will be shot down. A weak excuse at best.
Here's your big mistake thus far in this thread. You assume your opinion is correct when there is evidence that you are wrong.
So to sum it up.
You were not flamed.
Shadows should not be removed.
The right to be offended does not mean you have the right to offend.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just because something can be abused does not mean it should be removed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Putting it simply, that's the easy way out of it. It can be taken if it can't be fixed the hard way (which is preventing it from being abused). but....LOL as if the hard way stands a chance.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For your opinion to hold any merit you MUST back it up. Thinking otherwise is not ignorant, its stupid. Especially if it is not backed up because you fear it will be shot down. A weak excuse at best.
Here's your big mistake thus far in this thread. You assume your opinion is correct when there is evidence that you are wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fact was I didn't care about it enough to back it up. Please stop trying to talk down to me. Your just going to end up starting another flame war. Best to sthu.
The more you guys flame each other and bicker like little kids talking about how much cooler the XBox is than the Gamecube, the less people will care what you have to say. Get it together guys. I was enjoying this thread until it turned into an "OMG BUNNYHOPPING AM LAME" "NO IT'S NOT ***" type of typical internet crap thread.
This is a classic snowball effect scenario and it's likely to get worse. If it were up to me, which it is not, and I had some say in this situation, which I do not, I would advise those using scripts to suck it up, ditch them, and draw the line where it's most easily drawn: complete and total lack of scripts/exploits, including marine bunnyhopping. As legitimate a skill as this is, it definentally smears the line between integrity and exploitation, which is apparantly what you guys are trying to sort out. The lines that work the best are the most concrete and black and white.
It's arguments like these that keep me away from the clan scene in pretty much any game. Sorry about the holier than thou arst tone (I'm not trying to flame or spurn you all, especially given that quite a few of you are quite a bit more knowledgeable about NS than I), but there's a lot about this topic that rubs me the wrong way, and a lot of that could be stopped by a certain few of you sucking up your ego and addressing what the real issue is. No further comment.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is a classic snowball effect scenario and it's likely to get worse. If it were up to me, which it is not, and I had some say in this situation, which I do not, I would advise those using scripts to suck it up, ditch them, and draw the line where it's most easily drawn: complete and total lack of scripts/exploits, including marine bunnyhopping. As legitimate a skill as this is, it definentally smears the line between integrity and exploitation, which is apparantly what you guys are trying to sort out. The lines that work the best are the most concrete and black and white.
It's arguments like these that keep me away from the clan scene in pretty much any game. Sorry about the holier than thou arst tone (I'm not trying to flame or spurn you all, especially given that quite a few of you are quite a bit more knowledgeable about NS than I), but there's a lot about this topic that rubs me the wrong way, and a lot of that could be stopped by a certain few of you sucking up your ego and addressing what the real issue is. No further comment. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. And I really like the way you used the word IF in your post (please take notes umbraed monkey).
I'm sorry this thread turned out the way it did...but monkey couldn't accept personal opinions, civilian couldn't understand sarcasm, and othell just couldn't keep his mouth to himself and mind his own damn business.
<!--QuoteBegin--xeNixx+Oct 28 2003, 09:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xeNixx @ Oct 28 2003, 09:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Is it really so hard to just stand up and say "I'm completely legit!" and take pride in that statement alone? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh tell us oh wise one, what is legit?
Scripts are built into the game! So is bhopping! Stop taking such an anti script view.
<!--QuoteBegin--Marq+Oct 28 2003, 10:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marq @ Oct 28 2003, 10:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and othell just couldn't keep his mouth to himself and mind his own damn business. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> lol
Anytime you have an advantage that the other team is not aware of YOU ARE CHEATING plain and simple, even if the league you play in allows it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Plain and simple... ROFL. If it was so "plain and simple" do you really think we would be having a discussion about this? Don't present your fanatical views and then pretend it is a one sided issue. Go look up cheating in the dictionary. It says "to violate rules dishonestly". So if it is legal, it is not cheating. If you want to make up your own word whose definition is "anything I don't approve of" then be my guest, but stop trying to warp the meaning of the words we already have.
Thanks for owning him. I'm really tired of the perversion of the word "cheat" on these forums. Some folks around here have just a bit too much high and mighty attitude when they have no idea what they are talking about. d by my statement " If you <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well I should have guessed I would be defending myself. In an attempt to clairify my stand, here goes. In order to humor Sling_Blade I took the liberty of reserching the word in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary. Here is definition number three:
cheat - 3 : to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting
As I stated before when you are ingaging in Config file changes and adding scripts to your program you are cheating. This action can be paralled to a game of chess. Lets say you have a Rook that moves in a strait line on the board, but every few turns you know of a way to move it in a "L"pattern like a knight, you are able to do this with out the other player ever knowing. This different use of the piece is not known to the other player, so it becomes an unfair advantage. It's becouse the other player has no knowlage of how to do this move, that makes it unfair. The other player is playing this chess game in good faith and has not taken the liberty to do these odd moves that you have done. Further more the rules don't define this new "L" move for the rook. It is the same with NS, If clan [AAA] Scrims clan [BBB] and clan [AAA] runs special scripts and changes a few config files, then clan [AAA] is in effect changeing the rules of the game without [BBB] ever knowing it. When Clan [AAA] wins the match they are (see defintion above) thwarting the efforts of clan [BBB] to win, by failure to disclose modifications that may make the game unfair to [BBB], and this my freinds is Deception. This clearly fits the definition of the word cheat.
I won't name them but its obvious from this thread that there are many supporters of these modifications, it saddens me to see that these people have lost the spirt that makes this community great. I value Trust, Respect, and Honor but for those among us that dont I hope that you may possibly gain something from these threads. I look forward to watching a few clans drop out of contention in the next few weeks as Cheating Death becomes mandatory in CAL, and I will keep my fingers crossed that the config file issues will be solved in the near future.
I've always wanted to join the clan scene, but if has become has its been suggested, maybe I'll stick with pubs and pugs.
I hate the overcompetive atmosphere, and the mindset of the ends justify the means. I feel scripting is cheating for reasons stated throughout the thread. It's unfortunate that inorder to stay competive that these 'edges' are becoming commonplace. What's worse, these little 'enhancements' ruin the fun of the game by killing the atmosphere. Best example is removing the shadows that add so much character to levels that people spent long labouring hours creating.
It's impractical to game on a LAN only, but it seems like the only sure way to have a level playing field nowindays.
And once again good threads get beaten to death by imbeciles. gg scrubs. <3 HAMBONE. And yes the amount of stupidity and the total lack of a "real" clan scene (aka one that was apparent during the NSA competition and the 1st 10 weeks of CAL Preseason #1 with 1.04) also make for great reasons why some good clans have died. Also when you only have about 2-3 good maps that a great for clan play (eclipse, tanith, veil now) and the rest are a bunch of beautiful unbalanced maps, makes for some stale playing as well.
Comments
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Yea......hud_fastswitch isn't.....bad......yea.
alias specialattack "-attack2; wait; +attack; wait; -attack; +attack2;"
alias "+deth" "alias _special specialattack; +attack2;"
alias "-deth" "alias _special; -attack2;"
Exactly, people who don't like C-D are full of it, tbh.
It prevents 90% of the hacks out there
It stops some cvars like ex_interp
No lag
No CPU usage (unless you have 16 RAM... then ya, it would hurt)
FFS, it's a free meal, and yet I see people deny it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I used to be against c-d, just because I didn't want to be bothered with it, now I support it about 95% of the way.
I use to play in a clan with a guy who said C-D didn't work for him, always refused to use it, and was actually accused of hacking quite a bit for a fifteen year old :-\
Oh well, anyways, yea.
I know the solution..
Lets do this on L-A-N.
Plain and simple... ROFL. If it was so "plain and simple" do you really think we would be having a discussion about this? Don't present your fanatical views and then pretend it is a one sided issue. Go look up cheating in the dictionary. It says "to violate rules dishonestly". So if it is legal, it is not cheating. If you want to make up your own word whose definition is "anything I don't approve of" then be my guest, but stop trying to warp the meaning of the words we already have. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for owning him. I'm really tired of the perversion of the word "cheat" on these forums. Some folks around here have just a bit too much high and mighty attitude when they have no idea what they are talking about.
P.S. 3518792
I know the solution..
Lets do this on L-A-N. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your a goof 9129489484 whatever your number won id is :-p
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
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Actually you can't. What prevents you from firing faster is the cap Flayra put on the pistol fire rate. Now that this is fixed it is no longer an exploit. I wouldn't touch pistol scripts back when it was like firing 1 huge shot. You can have control over how many bullets you fire with a script... it is just like an LMG. You can tap it or hold it down. But if you want to think that mashing your finger as fast as you can on your mouse gives your faster and more accurate firing... have fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, Sling Blide, Lucid may be correct on this.
The reason? You can't time the 'wait' command perfectly along with the speed cap, I do believe.
As for lucid being able to click that mouse1 button REALLY DAMN FAST - Yes he can do it, I've seen it done at a LAN center. He did it right along the speed cap, getting out all 5 of the bullets right under a second.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When the smoke cleared the only config that was tweeked was hud_fastswitch 0 from its preset of 1. And to be honest I feel that even changing this is an unfair advantage, but I pushed for even more tweeking.
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I honestly can't believe people are this stingy about the game -
Next time you have dellima's about stuff like this Fangs, ask other people for some advice, you can learn new things that you woulda never knew before.
For example, <b>you could never consider hud_fastswitch "1" to be an exploit simply because anyone who goes through the HL menu's can easily toggle this option on/off; IT'S OBVIOUSLY MEANT TO BE IN THE GAME!</b>
Yeah. Silly silly. To anyone who says hud_fastswitch is an exploit - RTFM.
EDIT: Thanks lucid for pointing out the 5 at the speed cap that I missed.
Um, no. Nothing monkey said to you was even close to a flame. I admit I got close to flaming, but I don't feel it was anywhere near the level of your posts.
Perhaps you weren't trying to start a 'flamewar', but your posts were so provocative that it certainly seemed like you were.
And Sling_Blade, I see. So such a script is possible. I stand corrected.
Um, no. Nothing monkey said to you was even close to a flame. I admit I got close to flaming, but I don't feel it was anywhere near the level of your posts.
Perhaps you weren't trying to start a 'flamewar', but your posts were so provocative that it certainly seemed like you were.
And Sling_Blade, I see. So such a script is possible. I stand corrected. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
In contrast, Marq has outright flamed me...twice.
As well, he continues to talk about bhopping where it is obviously not the topic of this thread. If you are unhappy about this game's stance on bhopping, make a separate thread and complain there. This is not the place.
And thanks civilian, I appreciate that. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
rgr dgr sling. Stupiest thing in the world. You can control yourself to some extent but it doesn't function very well. I just wanted to make sure everyone is talking about the same thing. Some people hear bhop script and instantly think its some 1 action speed demon script. The script people are talking about in this thread is a "jump" script because thats all that it performs.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For even ground, yes. But things like jumping up/down ramps and over big drops take a LOT more practice, and I personally don't know of anyone who can jump up a steep ramp the way a hopping script can.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
eh, maybe not too much more practice. I kinda see your point though.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually you can't. What prevents you from firing faster is the cap Flayra put on the pistol fire rate. Now that this is fixed it is no longer an exploit. I wouldn't touch pistol scripts back when it was like firing 1 huge shot. You can have control over how many bullets you fire with a script... it is just like an LMG. You can tap it or hold it down. But if you want to think that mashing your finger as fast as you can on your mouse gives your faster and more accurate firing... have fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've done it. Tested it. Had it witnessed. That includes 1.0x. It's not that hard. and i'm no less accurate while clicking fast than if i click slow. I actually think my accuracy improves when I get in a fast groove.
- To anyone who thinks that mwheel is faster than clicking.... it's not. Tested that too. Maybe people don't leave their finger on the mouse (taking it off is bad). I dunno why so many people have a hard time clicking fast.
- hud_fastswitch an exploit? laff. sorry
- forlorn, I think you meant 5 bullets in a second, not all. Thats impossible in 2.0
bhopping is deemed legal for aliens...the question here is skillful bhopping vs scripted bhopping.
and hiding in the dark as skulk = cheap?! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, so he had his oppinions, then... I just stated that IF (KEYWORD: IF) it was up to me bhoping would be removed because it's an exploit and all(you see I thought it would just be a good idea for competiton, this is how it relates to this subject)...then HE said.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its not up to you. Its up to Flayra, that is what he decided.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So he's like, WHAHAHAHA ITS NOT UP TO YOU ****!!! LOLOLOL. To me that's a flame. Civilian plz read posts more clearly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->heh, calm yeself, Marq.
Im just stating plainly that bhopping is considered legit, and theres nothing you can do to change that. No need for name calling and cheating <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here he repeats "WHAHAHAHA ITS NOT UP TO YOU ****!!! LOLOLOL." AGAIN just to pis me off.
That's two flames...so I outright FLAME YOU two times as well. We're even...unless you want to start some more.
I won't deny that I use it. However I have to because my video drivers reset my gamma and brightness to zero every time I start a game. I make sure that when I adjust my gamma that the shadows are still visible.
With regards to abusing scripts in competitive play, I cannot say that I am angered. It is a competition and you are in it to win. If it does not violate the rules of the match then there is little ground for you to stand on.
However I do feel that the rules should be tightened. Cyber-Athelete is no such thing until every competitor is on equal footing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I use PS as well as my combination of video card + monitor is such that virtually any full screen game I've ever played (HL and its mods included) is so dark as to be unplayable. There is a difference though between adjusting your gamma slightly vs cranking it up to 4.0 where you can see everything as bright as day.
Reguardless of this difference, I think everyone should be able to see skulks through thin air no matter where the location is on the map(meaning no matter how bright that part of the map is), because at this point, gamma locks are just flat out impractical.
About the time I had my fill of CAL-CS and the CS community we struggled with issues that were mainly due to the hypocrisy of the leagues, players and admins. The level I was on demanded such absolute perfection from its users that you had to commit yourself to strict diets of play and fun was the fat. I know a lot of my fellow clanmates had to deal with serious issues and they simply turned to scripts, some times even hacks. And what the **** was I supposed to do? Be a critical parent, and discipline their actions with harsh words? Disdain their sins? Somewhere in the mess you get confused, find you have trouble resting your feet on stable ground. If you were to take a stand on something so controversial, would it cost you something dearly? I took the easy route, I just left pre-maturely. Done with those people, done with that entire issue.
I've seen this for about a year now in SC:BW(one of my most decorated and favorite games)where players are constantly using external gaming programs, and especially this freaking "WinBOT" that was released(for you SC fans that keep in contact with the sc world)by 'c0ke'. I knew this kid online! He was more or less a gaming buddy of mine back then, when he came out with the WinBOT. I never doubted he was a talented programmer, a friend. Yet did he betray me? So...
I publicly insulted him and his entire commitee. Lost a friend for life. Hell of a sacrifice.
Now its a public conformity to use the winbot. 1,000 people in the ladder lists, 9999 across the boards...
I'm not saying NS needs a boost of imitation and role modeling from aspiring people like HAMBONE here, but isn't it time to just wake the **** up? Moreover, when hacks and cheats become redundant and occassional I often here the excuse "this game is boring now so I hack to make it fun"... Please! I do not totally condone <i>anyones</i> actions to hack when they're bored, yet this does happen and the communities are therein swamped with cheaters. StarCraft, Diablo, CS, ... I hate to think that only after a year, NS is developing it.
<b>Scripts directly cheat. It's a hack. It's a fallacity. Straight up its ****. I don't believe in it. </b>
Is it really so hard to just stand up and say "I'm completely legit!" and take pride in that statement alone?
That ruins the atmosphere of the game... And atmosphere is an extremely important part of any game. The shadows are there for a reason.
As to the part about you being flamed... Get real. You have not been flamed once. Reminding you that it is NOT up to you ( thank goodness ) is no more a flame than reminding you that your opinions ( especially after the "shadows are bad" bit ) are nothing more than opinions with nothing to back them up.
Holding an opinion is fine... Just have something substantial to back it up for once ( <-- friendly advice ).
Out of this entire thread, your posts have been the most humorous to me ( i.e. NOT a compliment ).
And if anyone is wondering about CAL... We will be implementing CD over the next 2 - 3 weeks. WWCL will not be implemented. Certain rules may be added regardless of our ability to enforce them ( i.e. <3 the honor system ).
Just an FYI though... I hail from the TFC community, so it seems I could be considered quite a bit more liberal than many here ( e.g. I've have NEVER considered hudfastswitch 0 to be in any way an exploit ). However, I do listen to the community and will do what I can ( within reason ) to keep everyone happy. I am extremely hesitant to require things other than a game and a server to play. I have been in leagues that have required a number of things just to be legal to play, and over time it wears on you.... You eventually just want to play the game. So I do my best to prevent that from happening to those that participate in my league.
If there are ever any questions or issues, I can always be reached via email ( othell@caleague.com ) and am on IRC quite often ( #caleague-ns ).
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Maybe. I just think something like this is too hard to keep from being tampered with especially with an outdated game engine. I was essentually saying you could fix the "gamma cheating" problem just by eliminating this atmosphere. I know I kind of said this without backing it up. Perhaps I misjuged the population in these forums who see it my way.
While backing up an opinion may seem manditory to you, please understand I may not want to waste the time doing so(after all the opinion has it's chance of not being shot down)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As to the part about you being flamed... Get real. You have not been flamed once. Reminding you that it is NOT up to you ( thank goodness ) is no more a flame than reminding you that your opinions ( especially after the "shadows are bad" bit ) are nothing more than opinions with nothing to back them up.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who are you to say I have not been flamed once? It's how I took what was said that matters. Even though it may appear ignorant to you and the others, I have the right to decide for myself if I'm being insulted or not.
That ruins the atmosphere of the game... And atmosphere is an extremely important part of any game. The shadows are there for a reason.
As to the part about you being flamed... Get real. You have not been flamed once. Reminding you that it is NOT up to you ( thank goodness ) is no more a flame than reminding you that your opinions ( especially after the "shadows are bad" bit ) are nothing more than opinions with nothing to back them up.
Holding an opinion is fine... Just have something substantial to back it up for once ( <-- friendly advice ).
Out of this entire thread, your posts have been the most humorous to me ( i.e. NOT a compliment ).
And if anyone is wondering about CAL... We will be implementing CD over the next 2 - 3 weeks. WWCL will not be implemented. Certain rules may be added regardless of our ability to enforce them ( i.e. <3 the honor system ).
Just an FYI though... I hail from the TFC community, so it seems I could be considered quite a bit more liberal than many here ( e.g. I've have NEVER considered hudfastswitch 0 to be in any way an exploit ). However, I do listen to the community and will do what I can ( within reason ) to keep everyone happy. I am extremely hesitant to require things other than a game and a server to play. I have been in leagues that have required a number of things just to be legal to play, and over time it wears on you.... You eventually just want to play the game. So I do my best to prevent that from happening to those that participate in my league.
If there are ever any questions or issues, I can always be reached via email ( othell@caleague.com ) and am on IRC quite often ( #caleague-ns ). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Awesome, Thanks othell glad to see something at least is being done.
While backing up an opinion may seem manditory to you, please understand I may not want to waste the time doing so(after all the opinion has it's chance of not being shot down)
Who are you to say I have not been flamed once? It's how I took what was said that matters. Even though it may appear ignorant to you and the others, I have the right to decide for myself if I'm being insulted or not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just because something can be abused does not mean it should be removed.
For your opinion to hold any merit you MUST back it up. Thinking otherwise is not ignorant, its stupid. Especially if it is not backed up because you fear it will be shot down. A weak excuse at best.
Here's your big mistake thus far in this thread. You assume your opinion is correct when there is evidence that you are wrong.
So to sum it up.
You were not flamed.
Shadows should not be removed.
The right to be offended does not mean you have the right to offend.
Now we should get back on topic.
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Putting it simply, that's the easy way out of it. It can be taken if it can't be fixed the hard way (which is preventing it from being abused). but....LOL as if the hard way stands a chance.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For your opinion to hold any merit you MUST back it up. Thinking otherwise is not ignorant, its stupid. Especially if it is not backed up because you fear it will be shot down. A weak excuse at best.
Here's your big mistake thus far in this thread. You assume your opinion is correct when there is evidence that you are wrong.
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The fact was I didn't care about it enough to back it up. Please stop trying to talk down to me. Your just going to end up starting another flame war. Best to sthu.
This is a classic snowball effect scenario and it's likely to get worse. If it were up to me, which it is not, and I had some say in this situation, which I do not, I would advise those using scripts to suck it up, ditch them, and draw the line where it's most easily drawn: complete and total lack of scripts/exploits, including marine bunnyhopping. As legitimate a skill as this is, it definentally smears the line between integrity and exploitation, which is apparantly what you guys are trying to sort out. The lines that work the best are the most concrete and black and white.
It's arguments like these that keep me away from the clan scene in pretty much any game. Sorry about the holier than thou arst tone (I'm not trying to flame or spurn you all, especially given that quite a few of you are quite a bit more knowledgeable about NS than I), but there's a lot about this topic that rubs me the wrong way, and a lot of that could be stopped by a certain few of you sucking up your ego and addressing what the real issue is. No further comment.
It's arguments like these that keep me away from the clan scene in pretty much any game. Sorry about the holier than thou arst tone (I'm not trying to flame or spurn you all, especially given that quite a few of you are quite a bit more knowledgeable about NS than I), but there's a lot about this topic that rubs me the wrong way, and a lot of that could be stopped by a certain few of you sucking up your ego and addressing what the real issue is. No further comment. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. And I really like the way you used the word IF in your post (please take notes umbraed monkey).
I'm sorry this thread turned out the way it did...but monkey couldn't accept personal opinions, civilian couldn't understand sarcasm, and othell just couldn't keep his mouth to himself and mind his own damn business.
Oh tell us oh wise one, what is legit?
Scripts are built into the game! So is bhopping! Stop taking such an anti script view.
lol
Your avatar doesn't suit you very well does it?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Plain and simple... ROFL. If it was so "plain and simple" do you really think we would be having a discussion about this? Don't present your fanatical views and then pretend it is a one sided issue. Go look up cheating in the dictionary. It says "to violate rules dishonestly". So if it is legal, it is not cheating. If you want to make up your own word whose definition is "anything I don't approve of" then be my guest, but stop trying to warp the meaning of the words we already have.
Thanks for owning him. I'm really tired of the perversion of the word "cheat" on these forums. Some folks around here have just a bit too much high and mighty attitude when they have no idea what they are talking about.
d by my statement " If you <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well I should have guessed I would be defending myself. In an attempt to clairify my stand, here goes. In order to humor Sling_Blade I took the liberty of reserching the word in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary. Here is definition number three:
cheat - 3 : to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting
As I stated before when you are ingaging in Config file changes and adding scripts to your program you are cheating. This action can be paralled to a game of chess. Lets say you have a Rook that moves in a strait line on the board, but every few turns you know of a way to move it in a "L"pattern like a knight, you are able to do this with out the other player ever knowing. This different use of the piece is not known to the other player, so it becomes an unfair advantage. It's becouse the other player has no knowlage of how to do this move, that makes it unfair. The other player is playing this chess game in good faith and has not taken the liberty to do these odd moves that you have done. Further more the rules don't define this new "L" move for the rook. It is the same with NS, If clan [AAA] Scrims clan [BBB] and clan [AAA] runs special scripts and changes a few config files, then clan [AAA] is in effect changeing the rules of the game without [BBB] ever knowing it. When Clan [AAA] wins the match they are (see defintion above) thwarting the efforts of clan [BBB] to win, by failure to disclose modifications that may make the game unfair to [BBB], and this my freinds is Deception. This clearly fits the definition of the word cheat.
I won't name them but its obvious from this thread that there are many supporters of these modifications, it saddens me to see that these people have lost the spirt that makes this community great. I value Trust, Respect, and Honor but for those among us that dont I hope that you may possibly gain something from these threads. I look forward to watching a few clans drop out of contention in the next few weeks as Cheating Death becomes mandatory in CAL, and I will keep my fingers crossed that the config file issues will be solved in the near future.
I hate the overcompetive atmosphere, and the mindset of the ends justify the means. I feel scripting is cheating for reasons stated throughout the thread. It's unfortunate that inorder to stay competive that these 'edges' are becoming commonplace. What's worse, these little 'enhancements' ruin the fun of the game by killing the atmosphere. Best example is removing the shadows that add so much character to levels that people spent long labouring hours creating.
It's impractical to game on a LAN only, but it seems like the only sure way to have a level playing field nowindays.
enem3-
(long live [ReD])