for a lot of people I think they might have one thing in common with me; compulsive gaming. You enjoy playing the game when you feel like playing it. Clan play doesn't really work very well with this kind of attitude as you need at least x amount of other people in your clan to want to play at the same time for it to really be a clan game and for a proper scrim it needs organisation between both clans involved to have the members on the agreed server at the agreed time. Sorry guys, but if I'm not in the mood for playing a game I won't play it and even if I did just for the sake of some clanmates or whatever then I wouldn't enjoy myself which defeats the whole purpose of it being a game =/ This isn't a lack of time to play games, it's more a case of lacking 'controlled' enthusiasm <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I've actually got a huge stock of reasons I don't join clans that's accumulated over the years but in the end it just comes whittling down to the simple need for fun ^^ Before anyone starts up again; clan play is fun for some, but just not for me =P
We never schedule scrims, when we get 6 who want to play we go looking for them. The only thing we have scheduled are matchs and then just whoever shows up gets to play. The last time we had a practice or required showing was in SiD like 6 months ago <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> And syn was the best clan 1.04/1.03 and probly early 2.0 but I'll take em 2.1 any time baby yeah !
Forlorn Stop using my thread to plug nsdraft u nub <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
How bout I make this easier. All pubbers are nubbers. see the relation? Pubber=nubber. You know nothing about the game or the true game mechanics. It's designed for teamwork which you cannot get in pubs. CANNOT there is no well if we had good players or some such dn does not recruit alot of good players who wanna join just because we have to have teamwork. Were only now really getting it togethor and we've had the same core 8 for like 10 months.
<!--QuoteBegin--fo sheezy my neezy+Oct 18 2003, 03:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fo sheezy my neezy @ Oct 18 2003, 03:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I suppose you actually think you and your group of random pubbers (or regulars, whatever), could beat syn? or dn? good luck. Find clanless players, totally clanless, and get 6 of them, and challenge one of these clans. I wanna see the outcome. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> See? This is exactly why I have no respect for clanners. "We must be better than you cos we have a tag in front of our name". Thanks for proving my original point (though edited by a mod as it might have been a bit insulting, i'll keep that for public play <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ).
I was impressed until you got to the pubber=nubber part ~rolls eyes~ That's half the attitude that gets 'clanners' in trouble; this weird us/them attitude.
I see it when guys talk about football and it makes me laugh. Y'know... "We scored a goal", "You suck, we rock". It's really no different from the silliness involved in NS vs Savage =3
All clans are is a glorification of a group of pubber friends who get together every now and then and then suddenly decided to stick a piece of ascii code infront of their names so they can feel exclusive. If the 'clan' goes into actual competition then it actually means something for the duration of the competition but outside of it you're just fooling yourself into feeling like you belong to something that means anything <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> To me, clans are like religion; if it makes you feel better then go believe in it but don't expect me to buy into it too <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--RoCkIn RiCkY+Oct 18 2003, 06:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RoCkIn RiCkY @ Oct 18 2003, 06:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--fo sheezy my neezy+Oct 18 2003, 03:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fo sheezy my neezy @ Oct 18 2003, 03:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I suppose you actually think you and your group of random pubbers (or regulars, whatever), could beat syn? or dn? good luck. Find clanless players, totally clanless, and get 6 of them, and challenge one of these clans. I wanna see the outcome. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> See? This is exactly why I have no respect for clanners. "We must be better than you cos we have a tag in front of our name". Thanks for proving my original point (though edited by a mod as it might have been a bit insulting, i'll keep that for public play <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--Geminosity+Oct 18 2003, 06:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Oct 18 2003, 06:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I was impressed until you got to the pubber=nubber part ~rolls eyes~ That's half the attitude that gets 'clanners' in trouble; this weird us/them attitude.
I see it when guys talk about football and it makes me laugh. Y'know... "We scored a goal", "You suck, we rock". It's really no different from the silliness involved in NS vs Savage =3
All clans are is a glorification of a group of pubber friends who get together every now and then and then suddenly decided to stick a piece of ascii code infront of their names so they can feel exclusive. If the 'clan' goes into actual competition then it actually means something for the duration of the competition but outside of it you're just fooling yourself into feeling like you belong to something that means anything To me, clans are like religion; if it makes you feel better then go believe in it but don't expect me to buy into it too <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Both of you are delusional. Esp. Ricky, you are just trolling. This world where clanners consider themselves to be above lesser lifeforms does not exist. However, both of you guys will never understand what true NS play is about untill you do several scrims.
You know the old Story Plato used about ignorance? You know, about the men in a cave who's only world was a bunch of dancing shadows on the wall? One day, one man decides to get up and see where the shadows came from, and saw some other men playing with some puppets in front of a candle projecting them on the wall? And beyond that, he saw light coming into the cave, he saw an opening, and upon looking, there was this whole new world outside of the cave? You know what I'm talking about?
Well basically, the pubbers are the one's who only see the shadows. You haven't expericed everything about NS untill you actually get into a game with REAL teamwork. I know the light is blinding and sometimes intiminating to approach, but I do believe that everyone should try doing it. This is why I've decided to become a NSD admin, and this is why I also shamelessly advertise for it.
Yup, you're absolutely right; 'pubbers' have absolutely no idea what it's like to play in a game in which both sides are aware of how to play the game, are reasonably skilled and people know each other. Look at lunixmonster for example... none of the teams all have the same clantag!!! THE FOOLS!!!
Look, forlorn... where do the 'clanners' come from? Do they start the game as clanners? ~gasp~ no!!! Is there any difference between a server with a full compliment of their clan on one team and the same on the other compared with a server full of people who regularly visit a server and know each other? OMG!!! no!!! tell me when the realisation of what I'm saying breaks through your mental programming and makes you realise you're talking about ordinary people instead of some self-imagined groups of elites against untrained civilians =P
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> world where clanners consider themselves to be above lesser lifeforms does not exist <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and then
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You haven't expericed everything about NS untill you actually get into a game with REAL teamwork <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cmon, we all love laughing at sheer blatant hypocrisy.
Concerning Plato's Cave, the question is who's in the cave, and who's from the outside. The clanners, staring at the shadows and insisting they see real teamplay, or the people outside, playing in the sun, seeing REAL teamplay, who are then mocked by their prisoner friends when they go into the cave?
IMHO real teamplay is when 12 totally disorganised pubbers turn into a team.....as opposed to 6 clanners working to a preordained game plan. But thats my concept, and rather than ridicule other people's concepts, I accept them... as long as they don't start picking issues with MINE.
Thats exactly why im talking about. Your just plain wrong. Me and 5 others from my clan will take any 10 pubbers you name. and the Pubbers=nubbers isn't because clanners are better in some way it's just a fact in NS you have no idea what kind of teamwork im talking about theirs a huge difference in a scrim then between two teams who generally play with eachother in a pub. But i'll eat my own words if you'd like to prove your point in a game.
I'm definately with Gem and Nemisis on this one. Just cause you're not in a clan doesn't mean you're a "n00b". On some servers, where I know theres a lot of people who think "clantag = good player, no tag = n00b", I just put some random letters in front of my name. It works. They don't assume I'm just some idiot who's never played the game before. And on the good servers, where people don't make stupid assumptions like that, the regulars are like a clan. We know each other, we know what strategies we like to use, and we know how to work with each other. We just don't decide to make playing the game a chore. We don't insist on practicing at a set time every week, we don't insist on having stupid ascii crap in front of our names, we don't insist on telling everyone we're better than them. We're not. We're a group of people who play well together. That's it. Sure, some of those clans who devote endless hours to practicing the game together would beat us if they were all on the same team. That's because they practice together all the time. In a game that can change in the blink of an eye, you have to be able to adapt. Their team is always constant, their strategies can be more like memorizing a list of moves than being able to adapt to the circumstances. Throw in a random element and watch hell break loose. Us 'pubbers' are always on different teams, we have to come up with stragies "on the fly". IMHO, that takes a lot more skill than repeating the same things over and over. Sure, clans can probably beat 'pubbers', but they don't always have more skill.
The main problem with clans, to me at least, is how seriously they take this GAME. Keyword: GAME. It's a game. Games are meant to be fun. 'Pubbers' are just having fun playing an awesome game. We play for the hell of it, because we like the game. For me at least, when you add clans in there, who can demand hours every day, that takes out the fun. I like being able to do what I want, when I want. I'm not one of those 'n00bs' who say "It's my game, I can do whatever.' when they're being smacktards. I just don't feel I "haven't expericed everything about NS" just because I'm not in a clan. I never will be in a clan. Yet, I have, believe it or not, seen teamwork. It happens every day. The commander gives an order to build or something. One TEAM member builds, the other covers. Basic NS. I see that every day. We work together on most of the servers I play on. Occasionally, there's one or two people who don't. But that doesn't suddenly ruin the game always. We just learn not to trust those people with doing anything as a team. Teamwork DOES exist on public servers.
And part of the reason that a lot of (NOT ALL) clan members don't see teamwork, is that their definition of teamwork is "helping me" and nobody's going to help you when you walk into a server with the "I'm better because I'm in a clan!" attitude. As far as I'm concerned, take that attitude and shove it. Not all clans are like this, I know that the server I generally play on has clan members on each team, and there's only usually one or two from each clan. They aren't always better than everyone else, and they don't think they are.
<!--QuoteBegin--Geminosity+Oct 18 2003, 07:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Oct 18 2003, 07:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Is there any difference between a server with a full compliment of their clan on one team and the same on the other compared with a server full of people who regularly visit a server and know each other? OMG!!! no!!! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, there is a big difference. People who play together often against a large diversity of oppionents know craploads more than your pub team.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And on the good servers, where people don't make stupid assumptions like that, the regulars are like a clan. We know each other, we know what strategies we like to use, and we know how to work with each other<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No No No. It's a fact you cannot have anywhere near the level of teamwork.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We just don't decide to make playing the game a chore. We don't insist on practicing at a set time every week, we don't insist on having stupid ascii crap in front of our names, we don't insist on telling everyone we're better than them. We're not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We don't practice ever. Have I made that clear yet? Nor do we require you to where tags infact alot of the time we don't I know I never do while pubbing. Nor do we require telling everyone were better then them. At least I havn't seen that on our topics rule list.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Their team is always constant, their strategies can be more like memorizing a list of moves than being able to adapt to the circumstances. Throw in a random element and watch hell break loose. Us 'pubbers' are always on different teams, we have to come up with stragies "on the fly". <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol just Lol....................... Random element? you can start with 2 onos for your random element how's that? Set strategies? before games our pregame talk is someone like "ok everyone kill g1n as soon as the game starts" with rennex singing and lucid talking about wendy. We try to do different stuff every game. We have never practice on strategy over and over in 2.01 because a single strategy doesn't work. We don't have a single strategy before game our com says what he wants us to do and we go do it the marines know nothing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's a game. Games are meant to be fun. 'Pubbers' are just having fun playing an awesome game. We play for the hell of it, because we like the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats fine im not argueing that at all. Good for you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> never will be in a clan. Yet, I have, believe it or not, seen teamwork. It happens every day. The commander gives an order to build or something. One TEAM member builds, the other covers. Basic NS. I see that every day. We work together on most of the servers I play on. Occasionally, there's one or two people who don't. But that doesn't suddenly ruin the game always. We just learn not to trust those people with doing anything as a team. Teamwork DOES exist on public servers. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of all Most servers it doesn't plain and simple. Secondly I will admit that there is some measure of teamwork on servers with alot of regulars thats where SiD/dn` comes from a server called D&S where we all regulared. However the measure of teamwork is NOWHERE NEAR, NOT EVEN CLOSE to that of a good clan.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And part of the reason that a lot of (NOT ALL) clan members don't see teamwork, is that their definition of teamwork is "helping me" and nobody's going to help you when you walk into a server with the "I'm better because I'm in a clan!" attitude. As far as I'm concerned, take that attitude and shove it. Not all clans are like this, I know that the server I generally play on has clan members on each team, and there's only usually one or two from each clan. They aren't always better than everyone else, and they don't think they are. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->?? I've very rarely seen that if ever. Infact most of the time I go pubbing with my friends we don't wear tags at all and whether we cover them or not they don't cover us at all. As far as i've seen thats just stereotypical BS.
Ok finally to clear away some common misconceptions: 1.A good clan will not take up all your time. I know dn would be perfectly happy with members who could avg 5-7 hours a week. Infact alot of them do, afew even less. 2. "Clanners are arrogant **** who all think their better then pubbers." Nope thats pure **** theirs plenty of good pubbers out their who can aim or skulk or gorge. And I have never seen a clanner say otherwise or really act like that. As for Pubbers=Nubbers to a point it is true though because you truly do not understand the game mechanics and level of teamwork some clans get it makes the game completely different.
Ok srry for ripping apart your post D/|rk your a good example of the avg pubber and much <3 to ya.
Oh and also you people should check out www.nsdraft.com cause I love forlorn and Disk.
wow squishy! a fact? I didn't know you had extensive research and proof =D Where did you get your docterate from? I hear there's a lot of good diplomas from the institute of Opinion, did you do the lifetime course there? ^^
For the rest of us grounded in reality I'll happily point that out for the unproven brain-washed point of view for what it is <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The 'clan = awesome teamwork' cliche comes from the same image that all clans practice regularly and are almost indoctrined with their strategies and plans. You say you don't practise and play on pubs so I put it to you that you're just a glorified pubber yourself trying to grab glory from the shiny clan badge you stuck on ^^
I really hate to break this to you but NS, while interesting and diverse, isn't a massively deep mass of complexity beyond the depths of normal human understanding. You're not possessed of any greater knowledge nor amazing experience than the average regular; in other words please get over yourself =P
The fact you told us to check out nsdraft as if you'd magically washed away all our clan concerns and made us eager to join the flock reeks of arrogance too incase the irony of you trying to say clansfolk aren't up themselves hasn't quite hit home yet <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I've been through the clan scene on several games through several years, I'm not exactly as niave as you seem to think public players are and I'm sure in this thread that the public players with my kind of experience behind them are the rule rather than the exception <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
You've never joined the clan scene in NS. Anyhow, a pub team will never be as good as a clan team, it's called coordination, which happens only after playing tons of different oppionents and playing with roughly the same people.
true I never joined the clan scene in NS, but that aside it still doesn't clear your arguements either =3
Considering how much you guys are saying the clan scene is dying I would've thought that you'd have little chance of playing against 'tons of different opponents' unless you play in pubs and teamstack ^^ And if you're only playing with 'roughly' the same people you aren't doing much different from a server with a set of regulars who turn up at the same time most of the time.
I know you're really hung up on clans being something special but you have to learn to let go... remember, the first step on the road to recovery is admitting you have a problem <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<b>Further councilling</b> Have you tried a peer help group? I hear places like <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=48568&hl=lady' target='_blank'>F4 hitters annonymous</a> does wonders ^~
Call me mad, but I would think playing with a bunch of different people every day would teach you more about teamwork and gameplay than the same 6 people vs a new team every day.
Sounds too much like stagnation to me. I personally find a greater challenge, a more satisfactory result, from pulling together 12 random people into a decent enough team. And then doing it again next game.
To me, that is so much greater than the same people over and over and over.
Additionally, people are pushing this "clanners aren't arrogant" thing, and I suppose in your own minds you're not, but saying things like "you don't understand NS till you're in a clan" IS arrogance - sheer unrefined arrogance. I see the pub-inclined people here saying "well you like clanning, so thats good for you, we prefer this" and then from the other side "you don't know what you're talking about, clan play is so much better".
I'm loving this mentality of all these "clanners". Seriously, you can all go screw yourself. You're a detriment to this community if all you can do is scorn the pubbers because they lack the same level of cohesiveness as your oh so mighty clanners do.
Look im getting tired of posting this crap so back it up or shutup your not argueing my points your just saying bs bs bs.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->wow squishy! a fact? I didn't know you had extensive research and proof =D Where did you get your docterate from? I hear there's a lot of good diplomas from the institute of Opinion, did you do the lifetime course there? ^^<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You think im wrong? Like I said your 10 pubbers vs my 6
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For the rest of us grounded in reality I'll happily point that out for the unproven brain-washed point of view for what it is<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im trying to keep this civil so I'll just go with a <3 gem
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The 'clan = awesome teamwork' cliche comes from the same image that all clans practice regularly and are almost indoctrined with their strategies and plans. You say you don't practise and play on pubs so I put it to you that you're just a glorified pubber yourself trying to grab glory from the shiny clan badge you stuck on ^^ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seriously wth? cliche of practice regularly and other stuff blah blah blah? I agree dn` is abunch of glorified pubbers but their a group of glorified pubbers who can take on any other in the world. And like I said we generally don't wear it unless were in a match. Also cliche cliche cliche I love that word but anyway thats not the best way to be a good clan in ns. Practicing doesn't work so why do it? That may be the CLICHE in CS but as im sure you know ns is different.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I really hate to break this to you but NS, while interesting and diverse, isn't a massively deep mass of complexity beyond the depths of normal human understanding. You're not possessed of any greater knowledge nor amazing experience than the average regular; in other words please get over yourself =P<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok gimme a sec........ oh it's coming it's coming!! ok now im over myself. And CS is a game of such depth? Yet some people are so much better then others it's not even funny. In Cs's case it's aim. In NS it's teamwork which like I said if you want anytime my 6 vs your 10 hell make it 12. First of all I do have alot more experience the the average pubber. Secondly I don't think that make me special in anyway i'll see something in a pub and use it in scrims all the time the fps is much the same. But the teamwork and way you play is once again COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. This is a fact ask any good clanner. You admit you havn't done high level clanning in NS so how do you argue you this point? get some reasons.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The fact you told us to check out nsdraft as if you'd magically washed away all our clan concerns and made us eager to join the flock reeks of arrogance too incase the irony of you trying to say clansfolk aren't up themselves hasn't quite hit home yet <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok first of all im one of the most arrogant clanners in the game. So wootie for me. However like I said we don't talk **** randomly on pubs I don't go around telling pubbers im better then them and I certainly don't think im a better person somehow from being better at a game. Im stateing a fact and I have evidence to back it up do you? And that nsdraft plug was just to be friendly to my buddy Disk and Forlorn I don't really care if you join that make your own clans or teams however you want. And if you don't want to thats fine to but don't make bs excuses.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've been through the clan scene on several games through several years, I'm not exactly as niave as you seem to think public players are and I'm sure in this thread that the public players with my kind of experience behind them are the rule rather than the exception <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This game is different. IT IS DESIGNED FOR TEAM AND CLAN PLAY. TEAMWORK IS THE KEY TO EVERYTHING. So until you try it in this game and can say you were succesful you don't know jack. Being in a cs clan or a dod clan or a bf1942 clan has nothing to do with being in a ns clan. And pubbing experience is different the scrims and matchs experience thats my whole freaking point so saying you have pubbing experience isn't going to convince me now is it?
Look im not trying to flame you. And I may be a arrogant sob... ok I am one. But I havn't seen you argue any of my points succesfully so until then I guess i'll be stuck in my own world right?
The best and most telling thing is the reaction to "you're the same as us, you just call yourself something different"
public players reaction is an uncaring silence because there's no disagreement really. Clan players are all "OMG NO!!! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE DARK SECRETS ~does free-masons dance~ WE'RE LIKE SO DIFFERENT!!!"
Fun part is, this is pretty much textbook psychology; small groups who are selective about their initiates suddenly gain 'elite' status in most people's minds. They might not do anything except wear a badge but when people find out not just anybody can get in everyone wants in to give themselves a feeling of self validation <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<b>squishy edit:</b> LOL! I back up my statements with logic and then you post your opinions backed with more of your opinions telling me I don't back mine up XD Seriously... you haven't successfully refuted anything to anyone but yourself and your posts are as much backing for half my claims as I need <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Lucid+Oct 18 2003, 04:28 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lucid @ Oct 18 2003, 04:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--[SiD]Squishy+Oct 18 2003, 02:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([SiD]Squishy @ Oct 18 2003, 02:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I kill half my team every scrim. Hell one of our members got **** that I dropped com chairs on our whole team while we were chasing after a gorge. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> squishy is never comming again <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> rofl.
Koolio had 40 res the moment you guys caught up with him (ya he was scrimming my clan).
Gem: Maybe you should reconsider. You're judging all clanners based on probably a few that you've played with, as some clannies you claim have done with pubbers. I know a few pubbies who could own with the best of them, and are pretty damn cool. On the other hand, I know some clannies that are downright awesome, and some that are absolute halfwits. Your post served nothing but to show your own prejudices against all clannies.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm loving this mentality of all these "clanners". Seriously, you can all go screw yourself. You're a detriment to this community if all you can do is scorn the pubbers because they lack the same level of cohesiveness as your oh so mighty clanners do. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im arrogant I agree. But I don't ever go off in pubs about it and I don't think any clanners do. And judging all clanners by what I post on the forums is stupidity incarnate.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Call me mad, but I would think playing with a bunch of different people every day would teach you more about teamwork and gameplay than the same 6 people vs a new team every day.
Sounds too much like stagnation to me. I personally find a greater challenge, a more satisfactory result, from pulling together 12 random people into a decent enough team. And then doing it again next game.
To me, that is so much greater than the same people over and over and over.
Necrosis My friend you have made the First good point on this thread that disagree's with my views. Congratulations much <3 to you. While I don't neccesarily agree with this
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Additionally, people are pushing this "clanners aren't arrogant" thing, and I suppose in your own minds you're not, but saying things like "you don't understand NS till you're in a clan" IS arrogance - sheer unrefined arrogance. I see the pub-inclined people here saying "well you like clanning, so thats good for you, we prefer this" and then from the other side "you don't know what you're talking about, clan play is so much better".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok first of all I disagree with this and I'll get to why however this is still a good comment. This is how you debate something not trying to flame like gem has done so far. Much <3 nec.
Ok anyway Im not trying to say this arrogantly im saying you play the game completely differently in a match or scrim. You just do it's a fact. If you want to try it and then argue with me thats fine But you havn't so where is your basis for argument? And the we prefer this good for you if you like being in clan thing is also a legitimate point in its way But thats not whats happening. First of all thats not what pubbers have been saying to me at all whatsoever. Secondly Im not saying were better for knowing this Im saying Scrim and matchs are DIFFERENT you havn't tried these how would you know? Im not saying their better once again im saying their TOTALLY DIFFERENT. NOT BETTER, DIFFERENT. I admit I prefer matchs and scrims and I think most people would if they tried them but I realize some people will always like pubs better and I respect that.
<!--QuoteBegin--Geminosity+Oct 18 2003, 08:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Oct 18 2003, 08:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Clan players are all "OMG NO!!! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE DARK SECRETS ~does free-masons dance~ WE'RE LIKE SO DIFFERENT!!!" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Best post in the thread.
actually I'm just using the ones posting in this thread as my example; clanners and pubbers are just people so sticking them in one big lump each doesn't really work against either 'faction' as a whole. I know clans form for other reasons than the ones I'm getting at but for the case of this arguement I'm just using what's in plain view and arguing generalisation with generalisation ^^
Like I said, I've got a large list of personal reasons for not enjoying the clan scene. I'm just using the material needed to beat off people trying to make themselves feel worth more than they are <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--[SiD]Squishy+Oct 18 2003, 08:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([SiD]Squishy @ Oct 18 2003, 08:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> lol so much h8
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm loving this mentality of all these "clanners". Seriously, you can all go screw yourself. You're a detriment to this community if all you can do is scorn the pubbers because they lack the same level of cohesiveness as your oh so mighty clanners do. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im arrogant I agree. But I don't ever go off in pubs about it and I don't think any clanners do. And judging all clanners by what I post on the forums is stupidity incarnate. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I go by what I know. Clanners posts on message boards such as this, and the clanners I meet on the pubs I play. Sure there are a few cool guys, but most tend to be "omg u ppl are all nubs" when heaven forbid they can't do something right away for one reason or another. Before you ask for examples, don't bother. I don't keep names, mostly because if they're ruining my playing experience, I go elsewhere or switch teams. Besides, most times they switch names mid game anyway.
OMG im gonna go get something to eat to many posts to quickly but I have to cover this real quick
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Fun part is, this is pretty much textbook psychology; small groups who are selective about their initiates suddenly gain 'elite' status in most people's minds. They might not do anything except wear a badge but when people find out not just anybody can get in everyone wants in to give themselves a feeling of self validation
squishy edit: LOL! I back up my statements with logic and then you post your opinions backed with more of your opinions telling me I don't back mine up XD Seriously... you haven't successfully refuted anything to anyone but yourself and your posts are as much backing for half my claims as I need <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see your facts point them out to me? where? where? where? If you have other opinions fine but I still see no facts. none 0 none 0 none.
And how many times do I have to say this. You havn't tried it and yet you say it's not different? And im not saying it's elite im saying it is different. Which most people who have tried both the "clanners" would agree with. Your the one who hasn't tried both so really doesn't have much of a basis for argument.
And stop for the love of god stop with this you think your so elite blah blah blah. When it comes down to it I am better then you at this game and my clan would really beat you 6on12 but that has nothing to do with my posts. I don't understand why you keep bringing it up at all. And seriously if you wanna dispute that we'll play you and if you don't then stop saying it k?
Look I got all the <3 in the world for pubbers maybe not for gem but for pubbers <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Im just saying Scrims are different and you should try them before saying their not.
ok im going out the door but one last one. Seph I don't think most clanners do but maybe some do yes. You succesfully argued your point good for you. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sorry squish... I tried reading that last post before your reply to seph but your ego was in the way. Could you get it to lean to the left a little? =/
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->actually I'm just using the ones posting in this thread as my example; clanners and pubbers are just people so sticking them in one big lump each doesn't really work against either 'faction' as a whole. I know clans form for other reasons than the ones I'm getting at but for the case of this arguement I'm just using what's in plain view and arguing generalisation with generalisation ^^ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Go away so I can get some food kthx? first of all thats mostly right. Generalisations I've played with probably more then half the ns community in the US whether you know it or not and I get my stuff from personal experience your the one pullin stuff out of thin air.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Like I said, I've got a large list of personal reasons for not enjoying the clan scene. I'm just using the material needed to beat off people trying to make themselves feel worth more than they are <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Could these be those mystical things called Facts? once again your last post had none. And this doesn't really give me much of a feeling of personal worth playing the guitar or soccer or getting a good grade makes me feel good. Argueing with you makes me feel hungry so im outty for acouple hours.
Comments
This isn't a lack of time to play games, it's more a case of lacking 'controlled' enthusiasm <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I've actually got a huge stock of reasons I don't join clans that's accumulated over the years but in the end it just comes whittling down to the simple need for fun ^^
Before anyone starts up again; clan play is fun for some, but just not for me =P
Forlorn Stop using my thread to plug nsdraft u nub <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
How bout I make this easier. All pubbers are nubbers. see the relation? Pubber=nubber. You know nothing about the game or the true game mechanics. It's designed for teamwork which you cannot get in pubs. CANNOT there is no well if we had good players or some such dn does not recruit alot of good players who wanna join just because we have to have teamwork. Were only now really getting it togethor and we've had the same core 8 for like 10 months.
See? This is exactly why I have no respect for clanners. "We must be better than you cos we have a tag in front of our name". Thanks for proving my original point (though edited by a mod as it might have been a bit insulting, i'll keep that for public play <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ).
That's half the attitude that gets 'clanners' in trouble; this weird us/them attitude.
I see it when guys talk about football and it makes me laugh. Y'know... "We scored a goal", "You suck, we rock". It's really no different from the silliness involved in NS vs Savage =3
All clans are is a glorification of a group of pubber friends who get together every now and then and then suddenly decided to stick a piece of ascii code infront of their names so they can feel exclusive. If the 'clan' goes into actual competition then it actually means something for the duration of the competition but outside of it you're just fooling yourself into feeling like you belong to something that means anything <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
To me, clans are like religion; if it makes you feel better then go believe in it but don't expect me to buy into it too <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That face disturbs me greatly.
See? This is exactly why I have no respect for clanners. "We must be better than you cos we have a tag in front of our name". Thanks for proving my original point (though edited by a mod as it might have been a bit insulting, i'll keep that for public play <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Geminosity+Oct 18 2003, 06:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Oct 18 2003, 06:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I was impressed until you got to the pubber=nubber part ~rolls eyes~
That's half the attitude that gets 'clanners' in trouble; this weird us/them attitude.
I see it when guys talk about football and it makes me laugh. Y'know... "We scored a goal", "You suck, we rock". It's really no different from the silliness involved in NS vs Savage =3
All clans are is a glorification of a group of pubber friends who get together every now and then and then suddenly decided to stick a piece of ascii code infront of their names so they can feel exclusive. If the 'clan' goes into actual competition then it actually means something for the duration of the competition but outside of it you're just fooling yourself into feeling like you belong to something that means anything
To me, clans are like religion; if it makes you feel better then go believe in it but don't expect me to buy into it too <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Both of you are delusional. Esp. Ricky, you are just trolling. This world where clanners consider themselves to be above lesser lifeforms does not exist. However, both of you guys will never understand what true NS play is about untill you do several scrims.
You know the old Story Plato used about ignorance? You know, about the men in a cave who's only world was a bunch of dancing shadows on the wall? One day, one man decides to get up and see where the shadows came from, and saw some other men playing with some puppets in front of a candle projecting them on the wall? And beyond that, he saw light coming into the cave, he saw an opening, and upon looking, there was this whole new world outside of the cave? You know what I'm talking about?
Well basically, the pubbers are the one's who only see the shadows. You haven't expericed everything about NS untill you actually get into a game with REAL teamwork. I know the light is blinding and sometimes intiminating to approach, but I do believe that everyone should try doing it. This is why I've decided to become a NSD admin, and this is why I also shamelessly advertise for it.
Look, forlorn... where do the 'clanners' come from? Do they start the game as clanners? ~gasp~ no!!!
Is there any difference between a server with a full compliment of their clan on one team and the same on the other compared with a server full of people who regularly visit a server and know each other? OMG!!! no!!!
tell me when the realisation of what I'm saying breaks through your mental programming and makes you realise you're talking about ordinary people instead of some self-imagined groups of elites against untrained civilians =P
See kiddies, thinking outside the box is fun ^^
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
world where clanners consider themselves to be above lesser lifeforms does not exist
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and then
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
You haven't expericed everything about NS untill you actually get into a game with REAL teamwork
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cmon, we all love laughing at sheer blatant hypocrisy.
Concerning Plato's Cave, the question is who's in the cave, and who's from the outside. The clanners, staring at the shadows and insisting they see real teamplay, or the people outside, playing in the sun, seeing REAL teamplay, who are then mocked by their prisoner friends when they go into the cave?
IMHO real teamplay is when 12 totally disorganised pubbers turn into a team.....as opposed to 6 clanners working to a preordained game plan. But thats my concept, and rather than ridicule other people's concepts, I accept them... as long as they don't start picking issues with MINE.
The main problem with clans, to me at least, is how seriously they take this GAME. Keyword: GAME. It's a game. Games are meant to be fun. 'Pubbers' are just having fun playing an awesome game. We play for the hell of it, because we like the game. For me at least, when you add clans in there, who can demand hours every day, that takes out the fun. I like being able to do what I want, when I want. I'm not one of those 'n00bs' who say "It's my game, I can do whatever.' when they're being smacktards. I just don't feel I "haven't expericed everything about NS" just because I'm not in a clan. I never will be in a clan. Yet, I have, believe it or not, seen teamwork. It happens every day. The commander gives an order to build or something. One TEAM member builds, the other covers. Basic NS. I see that every day. We work together on most of the servers I play on. Occasionally, there's one or two people who don't. But that doesn't suddenly ruin the game always. We just learn not to trust those people with doing anything as a team. Teamwork DOES exist on public servers.
And part of the reason that a lot of (NOT ALL) clan members don't see teamwork, is that their definition of teamwork is "helping me" and nobody's going to help you when you walk into a server with the "I'm better because I'm in a clan!" attitude. As far as I'm concerned, take that attitude and shove it. Not all clans are like this, I know that the server I generally play on has clan members on each team, and there's only usually one or two from each clan. They aren't always better than everyone else, and they don't think they are.
Yes, there is a big difference. People who play together often against a large diversity of oppionents know craploads more than your pub team.
No No No. It's a fact you cannot have anywhere near the level of teamwork.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We just don't decide to make playing the game a chore. We don't insist on practicing at a set time every week, we don't insist on having stupid ascii crap in front of our names, we don't insist on telling everyone we're better than them. We're not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We don't practice ever. Have I made that clear yet? Nor do we require you to where tags infact alot of the time we don't I know I never do while pubbing. Nor do we require telling everyone were better then them. At least I havn't seen that on our topics rule list.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Their team is always constant, their strategies can be more like memorizing a list of moves than being able to adapt to the circumstances. Throw in a random element and watch hell break loose. Us 'pubbers' are always on different teams, we have to come up with stragies "on the fly". <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol just Lol....................... Random element? you can start with 2 onos for your random element how's that? Set strategies? before games our pregame talk is someone like "ok everyone kill g1n as soon as the game starts" with rennex singing and lucid talking about wendy. We try to do different stuff every game. We have never practice on strategy over and over in 2.01 because a single strategy doesn't work. We don't have a single strategy before game our com says what he wants us to do and we go do it the marines know nothing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's a game. Games are meant to be fun. 'Pubbers' are just having fun playing an awesome game. We play for the hell of it, because we like the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats fine im not argueing that at all. Good for you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> never will be in a clan. Yet, I have, believe it or not, seen teamwork. It happens every day. The commander gives an order to build or something. One TEAM member builds, the other covers. Basic NS. I see that every day. We work together on most of the servers I play on. Occasionally, there's one or two people who don't. But that doesn't suddenly ruin the game always. We just learn not to trust those people with doing anything as a team. Teamwork DOES exist on public servers.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of all Most servers it doesn't plain and simple. Secondly I will admit that there is some measure of teamwork on servers with alot of regulars thats where SiD/dn` comes from a server called D&S where we all regulared. However the measure of teamwork is NOWHERE NEAR, NOT EVEN CLOSE to that of a good clan.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And part of the reason that a lot of (NOT ALL) clan members don't see teamwork, is that their definition of teamwork is "helping me" and nobody's going to help you when you walk into a server with the "I'm better because I'm in a clan!" attitude. As far as I'm concerned, take that attitude and shove it. Not all clans are like this, I know that the server I generally play on has clan members on each team, and there's only usually one or two from each clan. They aren't always better than everyone else, and they don't think they are. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->?? I've very rarely seen that if ever. Infact most of the time I go pubbing with my friends we don't wear tags at all and whether we cover them or not they don't cover us at all. As far as i've seen thats just stereotypical BS.
Ok finally to clear away some common misconceptions:
1.A good clan will not take up all your time. I know dn would be perfectly happy with members who could avg 5-7 hours a week. Infact alot of them do, afew even less.
2. "Clanners are arrogant **** who all think their better then pubbers." Nope thats pure **** theirs plenty of good pubbers out their who can aim or skulk or gorge. And I have never seen a clanner say otherwise or really act like that. As for Pubbers=Nubbers to a point it is true though because you truly do not understand the game mechanics and level of teamwork some clans get it makes the game completely different.
Ok srry for ripping apart your post D/|rk your a good example of the avg pubber and much <3 to ya.
Oh and also you people should check out www.nsdraft.com cause I love forlorn and Disk.
I didn't know you had extensive research and proof =D
Where did you get your docterate from?
I hear there's a lot of good diplomas from the institute of Opinion, did you do the lifetime course there? ^^
For the rest of us grounded in reality I'll happily point that out for the unproven brain-washed point of view for what it is <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The 'clan = awesome teamwork' cliche comes from the same image that all clans practice regularly and are almost indoctrined with their strategies and plans. You say you don't practise and play on pubs so I put it to you that you're just a glorified pubber yourself trying to grab glory from the shiny clan badge you stuck on ^^
I really hate to break this to you but NS, while interesting and diverse, isn't a massively deep mass of complexity beyond the depths of normal human understanding. You're not possessed of any greater knowledge nor amazing experience than the average regular; in other words please get over yourself =P
The fact you told us to check out nsdraft as if you'd magically washed away all our clan concerns and made us eager to join the flock reeks of arrogance too incase the irony of you trying to say clansfolk aren't up themselves hasn't quite hit home yet <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I've been through the clan scene on several games through several years, I'm not exactly as niave as you seem to think public players are and I'm sure in this thread that the public players with my kind of experience behind them are the rule rather than the exception <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Considering how much you guys are saying the clan scene is dying I would've thought that you'd have little chance of playing against 'tons of different opponents' unless you play in pubs and teamstack ^^
And if you're only playing with 'roughly' the same people you aren't doing much different from a server with a set of regulars who turn up at the same time most of the time.
I know you're really hung up on clans being something special but you have to learn to let go... remember, the first step on the road to recovery is admitting you have a problem <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<b>Further councilling</b>
Have you tried a peer help group? I hear places like <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=48568&hl=lady' target='_blank'>F4 hitters annonymous</a> does wonders ^~
Sounds too much like stagnation to me. I personally find a greater challenge, a more satisfactory result, from pulling together 12 random people into a decent enough team. And then doing it again next game.
To me, that is so much greater than the same people over and over and over.
Additionally, people are pushing this "clanners aren't arrogant" thing, and I suppose in your own minds you're not, but saying things like "you don't understand NS till you're in a clan" IS arrogance - sheer unrefined arrogance. I see the pub-inclined people here saying "well you like clanning, so thats good for you, we prefer this" and then from the other side "you don't know what you're talking about, clan play is so much better".
See the difference in outlook?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->wow squishy! a fact?
I didn't know you had extensive research and proof =D
Where did you get your docterate from?
I hear there's a lot of good diplomas from the institute of Opinion, did you do the lifetime course there? ^^<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You think im wrong? Like I said your 10 pubbers vs my 6
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For the rest of us grounded in reality I'll happily point that out for the unproven brain-washed point of view for what it is<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im trying to keep this civil so I'll just go with a <3 gem
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The 'clan = awesome teamwork' cliche comes from the same image that all clans practice regularly and are almost indoctrined with their strategies and plans. You say you don't practise and play on pubs so I put it to you that you're just a glorified pubber yourself trying to grab glory from the shiny clan badge you stuck on ^^
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seriously wth? cliche of practice regularly and other stuff blah blah blah?
I agree dn` is abunch of glorified pubbers but their a group of glorified pubbers who can take on any other in the world. And like I said we generally don't wear it unless were in a match. Also cliche cliche cliche I love that word but anyway thats not the best way to be a good clan in ns. Practicing doesn't work so why do it? That may be the CLICHE in CS but as im sure you know ns is different.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I really hate to break this to you but NS, while interesting and diverse, isn't a massively deep mass of complexity beyond the depths of normal human understanding. You're not possessed of any greater knowledge nor amazing experience than the average regular; in other words please get over yourself =P<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok gimme a sec........ oh it's coming it's coming!! ok now im over myself. And CS is a game of such depth? Yet some people are so much better then others it's not even funny. In Cs's case it's aim. In NS it's teamwork which like I said if you want anytime my 6 vs your 10 hell make it 12. First of all I do have alot more experience the the average pubber. Secondly I don't think that make me special in anyway i'll see something in a pub and use it in scrims all the time the fps is much the same. But the teamwork and way you play is once again COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. This is a fact ask any good clanner. You admit you havn't done high level clanning in NS so how do you argue you this point? get some reasons.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The fact you told us to check out nsdraft as if you'd magically washed away all our clan concerns and made us eager to join the flock reeks of arrogance too incase the irony of you trying to say clansfolk aren't up themselves hasn't quite hit home yet <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok first of all im one of the most arrogant clanners in the game. So wootie for me. However like I said we don't talk **** randomly on pubs I don't go around telling pubbers im better then them and I certainly don't think im a better person somehow from being better at a game. Im stateing a fact and I have evidence to back it up do you? And that nsdraft plug was just to be friendly to my buddy Disk and Forlorn I don't really care if you join that make your own clans or teams however you want. And if you don't want to thats fine to but don't make bs excuses.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've been through the clan scene on several games through several years, I'm not exactly as niave as you seem to think public players are and I'm sure in this thread that the public players with my kind of experience behind them are the rule rather than the exception <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This game is different. IT IS DESIGNED FOR TEAM AND CLAN PLAY. TEAMWORK IS THE KEY TO EVERYTHING. So until you try it in this game and can say you were succesful you don't know jack. Being in a cs clan or a dod clan or a bf1942 clan has nothing to do with being in a ns clan. And pubbing experience is different the scrims and matchs experience thats my whole freaking point so saying you have pubbing experience isn't going to convince me now is it?
Look im not trying to flame you. And I may be a arrogant sob... ok I am one. But I havn't seen you argue any of my points succesfully so until then I guess i'll be stuck in my own world right?
public players reaction is an uncaring silence because there's no disagreement really.
Clan players are all "OMG NO!!! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE DARK SECRETS ~does free-masons dance~ WE'RE LIKE SO DIFFERENT!!!"
Fun part is, this is pretty much textbook psychology; small groups who are selective about their initiates suddenly gain 'elite' status in most people's minds. They might not do anything except wear a badge but when people find out not just anybody can get in everyone wants in to give themselves a feeling of self validation <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<b>squishy edit:</b> LOL! I back up my statements with logic and then you post your opinions backed with more of your opinions telling me I don't back mine up XD
Seriously... you haven't successfully refuted anything to anyone but yourself and your posts are as much backing for half my claims as I need <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
You're funny, I like you ~gives him a cookie~
squishy is never comming again <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
rofl.
Koolio had 40 res the moment you guys caught up with him (ya he was scrimming my clan).
Gem: Maybe you should reconsider. You're judging all clanners based on probably a few that you've played with, as some clannies you claim have done with pubbers. I know a few pubbies who could own with the best of them, and are pretty damn cool. On the other hand, I know some clannies that are downright awesome, and some that are absolute halfwits. Your post served nothing but to show your own prejudices against all clannies.
*chuckle*
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm loving this mentality of all these "clanners". Seriously, you can all go screw yourself. You're a detriment to this community if all you can do is scorn the pubbers because they lack the same level of cohesiveness as your oh so mighty clanners do. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im arrogant I agree. But I don't ever go off in pubs about it and I don't think any clanners do. And judging all clanners by what I post on the forums is stupidity incarnate.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Call me mad, but I would think playing with a bunch of different people every day would teach you more about teamwork and gameplay than the same 6 people vs a new team every day.
Sounds too much like stagnation to me. I personally find a greater challenge, a more satisfactory result, from pulling together 12 random people into a decent enough team. And then doing it again next game.
To me, that is so much greater than the same people over and over and over.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Necrosis My friend you have made the First good point on this thread that disagree's with my views. Congratulations much <3 to you. While I don't neccesarily agree with this
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Additionally, people are pushing this "clanners aren't arrogant" thing, and I suppose in your own minds you're not, but saying things like "you don't understand NS till you're in a clan" IS arrogance - sheer unrefined arrogance. I see the pub-inclined people here saying "well you like clanning, so thats good for you, we prefer this" and then from the other side "you don't know what you're talking about, clan play is so much better".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok first of all I disagree with this and I'll get to why however this is still a good comment. This is how you debate something not trying to flame like gem has done so far. Much <3 nec.
Ok anyway Im not trying to say this arrogantly im saying you play the game completely differently in a match or scrim. You just do it's a fact. If you want to try it and then argue with me thats fine But you havn't so where is your basis for argument? And the we prefer this good for you if you like being in clan thing is also a legitimate point in its way But thats not whats happening. First of all thats not what pubbers have been saying to me at all whatsoever. Secondly Im not saying were better for knowing this Im saying Scrim and matchs are DIFFERENT you havn't tried these how would you know? Im not saying their better once again im saying their TOTALLY DIFFERENT. NOT BETTER, DIFFERENT. I admit I prefer matchs and scrims and I think most people would if they tried them but I realize some people will always like pubs better and I respect that.
Best post in the thread.
Like I said, I've got a large list of personal reasons for not enjoying the clan scene. I'm just using the material needed to beat off people trying to make themselves feel worth more than they are <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm loving this mentality of all these "clanners". Seriously, you can all go screw yourself. You're a detriment to this community if all you can do is scorn the pubbers because they lack the same level of cohesiveness as your oh so mighty clanners do. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im arrogant I agree. But I don't ever go off in pubs about it and I don't think any clanners do. And judging all clanners by what I post on the forums is stupidity incarnate. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I go by what I know. Clanners posts on message boards such as this, and the clanners I meet on the pubs I play. Sure there are a few cool guys, but most tend to be "omg u ppl are all nubs" when heaven forbid they can't do something right away for one reason or another. Before you ask for examples, don't bother. I don't keep names, mostly because if they're ruining my playing experience, I go elsewhere or switch teams. Besides, most times they switch names mid game anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Fun part is, this is pretty much textbook psychology; small groups who are selective about their initiates suddenly gain 'elite' status in most people's minds. They might not do anything except wear a badge but when people find out not just anybody can get in everyone wants in to give themselves a feeling of self validation
squishy edit: LOL! I back up my statements with logic and then you post your opinions backed with more of your opinions telling me I don't back mine up XD
Seriously... you haven't successfully refuted anything to anyone but yourself and your posts are as much backing for half my claims as I need
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see your facts point them out to me? where? where? where? If you have other opinions fine but I still see no facts. none 0 none 0 none.
And how many times do I have to say this. You havn't tried it and yet you say it's not different? And im not saying it's elite im saying it is different. Which most people who have tried both the "clanners" would agree with. Your the one who hasn't tried both so really doesn't have much of a basis for argument.
And stop for the love of god stop with this you think your so elite blah blah blah. When it comes down to it I am better then you at this game and my clan would really beat you 6on12 but that has nothing to do with my posts. I don't understand why you keep bringing it up at all. And seriously if you wanna dispute that we'll play you and if you don't then stop saying it k?
Look I got all the <3 in the world for pubbers maybe not for gem but for pubbers <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Im just saying Scrims are different and you should try them before saying their not.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Go away so I can get some food kthx? first of all thats mostly right. Generalisations I've played with probably more then half the ns community in the US whether you know it or not and I get my stuff from personal experience your the one pullin stuff out of thin air.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Like I said, I've got a large list of personal reasons for not enjoying the clan scene. I'm just using the material needed to beat off people trying to make themselves feel worth more than they are <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Could these be those mystical things called Facts? once again your last post had none. And this doesn't really give me much of a feeling of personal worth playing the guitar or soccer or getting a good grade makes me feel good. Argueing with you makes me feel hungry so im outty for acouple hours.