Relsan I just cant see any ... well.... solidity in your ideas. They are too murky, too fleeting, too much like a shadow to grasp, and as it cannot be grasped, it cannot be studied. It cannot be examined. You cannot study it and find it wanting, you cant tell if it contradicts itself. It seems like the idea of someone who has tried to understand life, has failed to understand it, and so simply accepts and revels it its lack of knowledge and abandons it search for truth.
I also feel that you have dismissed out of hand the possiblity that their might be Truth, only one truth, and that that truth is tangible and applicable to all, whether they accept it or not.
Grand theories that "everything is just cool, its all good just go with the flow" hold no weight with me. They defy understanding and logic. The Christian religion can be understood and verified with reason and logic, but only up to a certain point. From then on, its all faith.
This seems to me to be pure faith. In something that YOU as a human being thought up. I have not the confidence in myself to start my own belief and follow it as Truth. I know I do the wrong thing, I know that I am flawed, and as such everything that I say and do is tainted with my humanity. I will not decieve myself with my own illusions.
The meaning of life, is, has, and always will be, <b>42</b>.
No Ifs. No Buts.
The real niggler here is, if that is the answer to life, the universe and everything, then what the hell is the question to life the universe and everything D:
<!--QuoteBegin--Cronos+Oct 2 2003, 08:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cronos @ Oct 2 2003, 08:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The meaning of life, is, has, and always will be, <b>42</b>.
No Ifs. No Buts.
The real niggler here is, if that is the answer to life, the universe and everything, then what the hell is the question to life the universe and everything D: <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But that 42 isnt the answer to the question "what is the meaning of life, the universe and Everything?"
42 is the answer to the question. what is the question? nobody knows, because the computer that was working it out was blown up 5 minutes before it announced the answer to make way for a new interstellar bypass.
[on topic] can we please try to keep this sensible. Dont bring 42 into it again, it has nothing to do with it.
<!--QuoteBegin--relsan+Oct 2 2003, 05:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (relsan @ Oct 2 2003, 05:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I find it interesting that you are far more interested in where I'm coming from rather than in considering whether there is any truth to what I'm saying. Perhaps I sound like Krishnamurti, perhaps I sound like Danny DeVito, perhaps I sound like Ghengis Khan. What does it matter? Why do you have this need to classify a concept before embracing it? Consider if there some truth in what I'm saying. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eh? I'm not classifying anything, I'm simply pointing out a lot of your ideas are similar, therefore you might be interested in some of his writings, that's all.
As for whether there is any truth in what you're saying, who knows? I prefer to define what "truth" is from my own personal perspective, although I always find it interesting to hear others views on the subject.
being a good man isnt just about the religous.i know how is the feeling to be a good man all the time as jew i know it. but there are limits of good and bad. you should be above the avrage but sill be no sucker to anyone. keep your pride at hand but dont be bad person. repect the ppl around you help them and understand them. avoid fights and keep away from bad ppl. dont let ppl occrup your sould thats my way
The whole concept of sin is just pure...hmmm(must watch my words here or else I could get banned or start of flamewar)....silly. Yep, silly, that what it is.
<!--QuoteBegin--AllUrHiveRBelong2Us+Sep 28 2003, 08:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AllUrHiveRBelong2Us @ Sep 28 2003, 08:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Satanism is bunk. It's all bunk. Satanism is basically trying to rebel against the christian normality, but that blind rebellion leads people down teh exact same road, that of blind conformity, a perverse set of morals, and a beliefe in a contradictory and frankly stupid system of magic and gods. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uhhh...no. You are incorrect. Satanism is not rebellion against Xtianity. Rebellion against Xtianity and the worship of Xtian demons and devils is called Diabolism. Something very, very, very different than Satanism.
The physical meaning of life is to procreate and spread one's genes. You only have the ability to question those primal instincts because the homo sapiens species advanced to such a point that our brains were finally capable of true self awareness and self analysis. There are many examples in human history where this ability has gone awry, however. Less than a thousand years ago the Aztecs considered human sacrifice a crucial element to their very survival. They would sacrifice their own children, kicking and screaming all the way, in an attempt to make it rain again.
It is quite clear that we as a species are in the middle of a confusion period. We aren't really sure what the heck is going on, what we're supposed to be doing, or where the heck we're supposed to go. Look no further than the incredibly diverse range of religions and ideals from which to choose and you can see we really just have no clue. This is why certain people can be led to believe that an alien spacecraft is trailing a comet and that if they drink some funky Kool Aid they'll be able to travel to their homeland again. Cleanse the gene pool, thank you very much.
Most people are given religion as the panacea and are thus able to effectively participate in a large society and (in general) obey their respective morals and ethics. When a new member of our species joins this world, their physical location and culture determine the particular panacea they are given and will (most likely) follow for the rest of their lives. Some people are capable of breaking out of this brain-washing and attempt to search for their own meanings. You might be one of them, however you are still clinging to some of the notions instilled in you by other people when you were younger. I can't help you there other than to suggest that you release everything you were taught and look for your own answers. If indeed you're looking to discover on your own rather than be told by someone else...
Now, there are people that are simply incapable of breaking free from this programming and will just blissfully live their lives until their bodies no longer function. For them, the meaning of life was planted long ago and is quite simple. Any affront to their ideals is just so completely bizarre and foreign to them that they won't ever understand what you're trying to say. This is what we called closed-minded. The brain is a blank sheet of paper as a newborn child. It fills with knowledge along the way. For some people, the process of learning and discovery ends at some point and they just move through life like the programmed robots they are. "I am a product of God/Allah/Satan/insert_your_god_here. I will obey what my elders told me our god wants me to do. I will procreate. I will teach my children to be just like me. Then I will die, and I will go to heaven/insert_your_everlasting_playground_here."
For a select group of others, the entire life cycle is a process of learning and dicovery, and they just keep searching. For those people, life is trying to understand the meaning of life. Einstein was one such person. For him, his meaning of life was to try and reveal his god. His god happened to be the set of laws that define all of the physical world, and not the kind of god Christians or Jews or any other monotheistic religion believes in. IE, a religion whereby the divine creator of all things has a penchant for displaying a biased interest in homo sapiens and that we were crafted in his image. Einstein's god was not a single invisible entity but rather purely scientific in nature: understand how all forces in the universe work and you will have discovered god. His god would be revealed through the Unified Field Theory. Unfortunately that has yet to come to fruition.
<i>"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."</i> - Albert Einstein
Now, where do you fit in all of this? Understand that, and you will have found <b>your</b> meaning of life. Still not sure? If you're young... and my guess is that you are since it sounds like you're a little confused... my suggestion to you is just to keep an open mind. When you do find that meaning, remember to be considerate to alternate views, especially those of people you respect (IE, your family.) You have the right to do as you want, however some people in your life will take offense no matter what it is you decide to do. Just note that they may not be capable of understanding, and that is okay. Love them for who they are and what they mean to you, but do not alter your beliefs purely to assuage them.
<!--QuoteBegin--Eviscerator+Oct 2 2003, 09:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Eviscerator @ Oct 2 2003, 09:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is in response to the very opening post.
The physical meaning of life is to procreate and spread one's genes. You only have the ability to question those primal instincts because the homo sapiens species advanced to such a point that our brains were finally capable of true self awareness and self analysis. There are many examples in human history where this ability has gone awry, however. Less than a thousand years ago the Aztecs considered human sacrifice a crucial element to their very survival. They would sacrifice their own children, kicking and screaming all the way, in an attempt to make it rain again.
It is quite clear that we as a species are in the middle of a confusion period. We aren't really sure what the heck is going on, what we're supposed to be doing, or where the heck we're supposed to go. Look no further than the incredibly diverse range of religions and ideals from which to choose and you can see we really just have no clue. This is why certain people can be led to believe that an alien spacecraft is trailing a comet and that if they drink some funky Kool Aid they'll be able to travel to their homeland again. Cleanse the gene pool, thank you very much.
Most people are given religion as the panacea and are thus able to effectively participate in a large society and (in general) obey their respective morals and ethics. When a new member of our species joins this world, their physical location and culture determine the particular panacea they are given and will (most likely) follow for the rest of their lives. Some people are capable of breaking out of this brain-washing and attempt to search for their own meanings. You might be one of them, however you are still clinging to some of the notions instilled in you by other people when you were younger. I can't help you there other than to suggest that you release everything you were taught and look for your own answers. If indeed you're looking to discover on your own rather than be told by someone else...
Now, there are people that are simply incapable of breaking free from this programming and will just blissfully live their lives until their bodies no longer function. For them, the meaning of life was planted long ago and is quite simple. Any affront to their ideals is just so completely bizarre and foreign to them that they won't ever understand what you're trying to say. This is what we called closed-minded. The brain is a blank sheet of paper as a newborn child. It fills with knowledge along the way. For some people, the process of learning and discovery ends at some point and they just move through life like the programmed robots they are. "I am a product of God/Allah/Satan/insert_your_god_here. I will obey what my elders told me our god wants me to do. I will procreate. I will teach my children to be just like me. Then I will die, and I will go to heaven/insert_your_everlasting_playground_here."
For a select group of others, the entire life cycle is a process of learning and dicovery, and they just keep searching. For those people, life is trying to understand the meaning of life. Einstein was one such person. For him, his meaning of life was to try and reveal his god. His god happened to be the set of laws that define all of the physical world, and not the kind of god Christians or Jews or any other monotheistic religion believes in. IE, a religion whereby the divine creator of all things has a penchant for displaying a biased interest in homo sapiens and that we were crafted in his image. Einstein's god was not a single invisible entity but rather purely scientific in nature: understand how all forces in the universe work and you will have discovered god. His god would be revealed through the Unified Field Theory. Unfortunately that has yet to come to fruition.
<i>"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."</i> - Albert Einstein
Now, where do you fit in all of this? Understand that, and you will have found <b>your</b> meaning of life. Still not sure? If you're young... and my guess is that you are since it sounds like you're a little confused... my suggestion to you is just to keep an open mind. When you do find that meaning, remember to be considerate to alternate views, especially those of people you respect (IE, your family.) You have the right to do as you want, however some people in your life will take offense no matter what it is you decide to do. Just note that they may not be capable of understanding, and that is okay. Love them for who they are and what they mean to you, but do not alter your beliefs purely to assuage them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ya that's what I'm saying. I just wanted to share my view of things and you've articulated it quite nicely. I've definitely gone through many stages of confusion and even now I don't feel complete but I don't think I ever will or am supposed to. I am content to be as I am and for the most part my life has been a wonderous journey.
Comments
I also feel that you have dismissed out of hand the possiblity that their might be Truth, only one truth, and that that truth is tangible and applicable to all, whether they accept it or not.
Grand theories that "everything is just cool, its all good just go with the flow" hold no weight with me. They defy understanding and logic. The Christian religion can be understood and verified with reason and logic, but only up to a certain point. From then on, its all faith.
This seems to me to be pure faith. In something that YOU as a human being thought up. I have not the confidence in myself to start my own belief and follow it as Truth. I know I do the wrong thing, I know that I am flawed, and as such everything that I say and do is tainted with my humanity. I will not decieve myself with my own illusions.
No Ifs. No Buts.
The real niggler here is, if that is the answer to life, the universe and everything, then what the hell is the question to life the universe and everything D:
No Ifs. No Buts.
The real niggler here is, if that is the answer to life, the universe and everything, then what the hell is the question to life the universe and everything D: <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
But that 42 isnt the answer to the question "what is the meaning of life, the universe and Everything?"
42 is the answer to the question. what is the question? nobody knows, because the computer that was working it out was blown up 5 minutes before it announced the answer to make way for a new interstellar bypass.
[on topic] can we please try to keep this sensible. Dont bring 42 into it again, it has nothing to do with it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I find it interesting that you are far more interested in where I'm coming from rather than in considering whether there is any truth to what I'm saying. Perhaps I sound like Krishnamurti, perhaps I sound like Danny DeVito, perhaps I sound like Ghengis Khan. What does it matter? Why do you have this need to classify a concept before embracing it? Consider if there some truth in what I'm saying. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eh? I'm not classifying anything, I'm simply pointing out a lot of your ideas are similar, therefore you might be interested in some of his writings, that's all.
As for whether there is any truth in what you're saying, who knows? I prefer to define what "truth" is from my own personal perspective, although I always find it interesting to hear others views on the subject.
/shrugs
dont let ppl occrup your sould
thats my way
<!--QuoteBegin--AllUrHiveRBelong2Us+Sep 28 2003, 08:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AllUrHiveRBelong2Us @ Sep 28 2003, 08:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Satanism is bunk. It's all bunk. Satanism is basically trying to rebel against the christian normality, but that blind rebellion leads people down teh exact same road, that of blind conformity, a perverse set of morals, and a beliefe in a contradictory and frankly stupid system of magic and gods.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uhhh...no. You are incorrect. Satanism is not rebellion against Xtianity. Rebellion against Xtianity and the worship of Xtian demons and devils is called Diabolism. Something very, very, very different than Satanism.
The physical meaning of life is to procreate and spread one's genes. You only have the ability to question those primal instincts because the homo sapiens species advanced to such a point that our brains were finally capable of true self awareness and self analysis. There are many examples in human history where this ability has gone awry, however. Less than a thousand years ago the Aztecs considered human sacrifice a crucial element to their very survival. They would sacrifice their own children, kicking and screaming all the way, in an attempt to make it rain again.
It is quite clear that we as a species are in the middle of a confusion period. We aren't really sure what the heck is going on, what we're supposed to be doing, or where the heck we're supposed to go. Look no further than the incredibly diverse range of religions and ideals from which to choose and you can see we really just have no clue. This is why certain people can be led to believe that an alien spacecraft is trailing a comet and that if they drink some funky Kool Aid they'll be able to travel to their homeland again. Cleanse the gene pool, thank you very much.
Most people are given religion as the panacea and are thus able to effectively participate in a large society and (in general) obey their respective morals and ethics. When a new member of our species joins this world, their physical location and culture determine the particular panacea they are given and will (most likely) follow for the rest of their lives. Some people are capable of breaking out of this brain-washing and attempt to search for their own meanings. You might be one of them, however you are still clinging to some of the notions instilled in you by other people when you were younger. I can't help you there other than to suggest that you release everything you were taught and look for your own answers. If indeed you're looking to discover on your own rather than be told by someone else...
Now, there are people that are simply incapable of breaking free from this programming and will just blissfully live their lives until their bodies no longer function. For them, the meaning of life was planted long ago and is quite simple. Any affront to their ideals is just so completely bizarre and foreign to them that they won't ever understand what you're trying to say. This is what we called closed-minded. The brain is a blank sheet of paper as a newborn child. It fills with knowledge along the way. For some people, the process of learning and discovery ends at some point and they just move through life like the programmed robots they are. "I am a product of God/Allah/Satan/insert_your_god_here. I will obey what my elders told me our god wants me to do. I will procreate. I will teach my children to be just like me. Then I will die, and I will go to heaven/insert_your_everlasting_playground_here."
For a select group of others, the entire life cycle is a process of learning and dicovery, and they just keep searching. For those people, life is trying to understand the meaning of life. Einstein was one such person. For him, his meaning of life was to try and reveal his god. His god happened to be the set of laws that define all of the physical world, and not the kind of god Christians or Jews or any other monotheistic religion believes in. IE, a religion whereby the divine creator of all things has a penchant for displaying a biased interest in homo sapiens and that we were crafted in his image. Einstein's god was not a single invisible entity but rather purely scientific in nature: understand how all forces in the universe work and you will have discovered god. His god would be revealed through the Unified Field Theory. Unfortunately that has yet to come to fruition.
<i>"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."</i> - Albert Einstein
Now, where do you fit in all of this? Understand that, and you will have found <b>your</b> meaning of life. Still not sure? If you're young... and my guess is that you are since it sounds like you're a little confused... my suggestion to you is just to keep an open mind. When you do find that meaning, remember to be considerate to alternate views, especially those of people you respect (IE, your family.) You have the right to do as you want, however some people in your life will take offense no matter what it is you decide to do. Just note that they may not be capable of understanding, and that is okay. Love them for who they are and what they mean to you, but do not alter your beliefs purely to assuage them.
The physical meaning of life is to procreate and spread one's genes. You only have the ability to question those primal instincts because the homo sapiens species advanced to such a point that our brains were finally capable of true self awareness and self analysis. There are many examples in human history where this ability has gone awry, however. Less than a thousand years ago the Aztecs considered human sacrifice a crucial element to their very survival. They would sacrifice their own children, kicking and screaming all the way, in an attempt to make it rain again.
It is quite clear that we as a species are in the middle of a confusion period. We aren't really sure what the heck is going on, what we're supposed to be doing, or where the heck we're supposed to go. Look no further than the incredibly diverse range of religions and ideals from which to choose and you can see we really just have no clue. This is why certain people can be led to believe that an alien spacecraft is trailing a comet and that if they drink some funky Kool Aid they'll be able to travel to their homeland again. Cleanse the gene pool, thank you very much.
Most people are given religion as the panacea and are thus able to effectively participate in a large society and (in general) obey their respective morals and ethics. When a new member of our species joins this world, their physical location and culture determine the particular panacea they are given and will (most likely) follow for the rest of their lives. Some people are capable of breaking out of this brain-washing and attempt to search for their own meanings. You might be one of them, however you are still clinging to some of the notions instilled in you by other people when you were younger. I can't help you there other than to suggest that you release everything you were taught and look for your own answers. If indeed you're looking to discover on your own rather than be told by someone else...
Now, there are people that are simply incapable of breaking free from this programming and will just blissfully live their lives until their bodies no longer function. For them, the meaning of life was planted long ago and is quite simple. Any affront to their ideals is just so completely bizarre and foreign to them that they won't ever understand what you're trying to say. This is what we called closed-minded. The brain is a blank sheet of paper as a newborn child. It fills with knowledge along the way. For some people, the process of learning and discovery ends at some point and they just move through life like the programmed robots they are. "I am a product of God/Allah/Satan/insert_your_god_here. I will obey what my elders told me our god wants me to do. I will procreate. I will teach my children to be just like me. Then I will die, and I will go to heaven/insert_your_everlasting_playground_here."
For a select group of others, the entire life cycle is a process of learning and dicovery, and they just keep searching. For those people, life is trying to understand the meaning of life. Einstein was one such person. For him, his meaning of life was to try and reveal his god. His god happened to be the set of laws that define all of the physical world, and not the kind of god Christians or Jews or any other monotheistic religion believes in. IE, a religion whereby the divine creator of all things has a penchant for displaying a biased interest in homo sapiens and that we were crafted in his image. Einstein's god was not a single invisible entity but rather purely scientific in nature: understand how all forces in the universe work and you will have discovered god. His god would be revealed through the Unified Field Theory. Unfortunately that has yet to come to fruition.
<i>"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."</i> - Albert Einstein
Now, where do you fit in all of this? Understand that, and you will have found <b>your</b> meaning of life. Still not sure? If you're young... and my guess is that you are since it sounds like you're a little confused... my suggestion to you is just to keep an open mind. When you do find that meaning, remember to be considerate to alternate views, especially those of people you respect (IE, your family.) You have the right to do as you want, however some people in your life will take offense no matter what it is you decide to do. Just note that they may not be capable of understanding, and that is okay. Love them for who they are and what they mean to you, but do not alter your beliefs purely to assuage them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ya that's what I'm saying. I just wanted to share my view of things and you've articulated it quite nicely. I've definitely gone through many stages of confusion and even now I don't feel complete but I don't think I ever will or am supposed to. I am content to be as I am and for the most part my life has been a wonderous journey.