Stalemates: Bad For Ns?
Ayatollah
Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11921Members
Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11921Members
i don't see how they are really GOOD for NS.
on the other hand, I can imagine a newbie coming in for the first time, and having to sit through 45+ minutes of gren spam etc. etc. i honestly think its one of the largest obstacles in NS becoming a far more popular public server game.
i mean, i guess i'm writing this thread to ask, is there ANY point to allowing stalemates? and if not - is there any fair way to integrate something into the game that would deny them?
on the other hand, I can imagine a newbie coming in for the first time, and having to sit through 45+ minutes of gren spam etc. etc. i honestly think its one of the largest obstacles in NS becoming a far more popular public server game.
i mean, i guess i'm writing this thread to ask, is there ANY point to allowing stalemates? and if not - is there any fair way to integrate something into the game that would deny them?
Comments
Also charge needs major buffing for damage, for the ultimate ability of the ultimate evolution, it sure lacks any impressive destructive power. You'd expect a light marine to go down instantly when hit by an onos at super speed but you have to rub against him for like 2-3 seconds if he has L3 armor.
recycle it all, build 3 obs and make a funny beaconing end.
there are some pretty ridiculously inaccessible spots, like sewer hive on caged - or any spot that involves a lot of ladders and drastic changes in elevation or very tight spaces.
I've had a few 100+ minute games
Stalemates to me, indicate a certain team just not taking advantage of it, or depending if it's the usual marine base standoff, something is wrong with the area it's in, rather.
a lot of people left after that one, it was just far too long =/
a lot of people left after that one, it was just far too long =/ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find these games fun.
I've seen a lot of attempts to turtle in base from the marine side, but they've always been crushed by an organized alien team in max. 10 minutes.
recycle it all, build 3 obs and make a funny beaconing end. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
good idea but u can also just put about 30 mines around ur ips and when onos comes up to it *boom* onos dead and match is over , good fun way to end
The 2 tiny hallways and lack of a vent to MS on tanith.
The raised platform in Waste on tanith.
The raised areas in Alpha Continuum on lost.
The rotating door and elevator in MS on bast.
The cramped entrance to Engine room on bast.
Etc.
All of these areas are practically impossible to take down if the marines do all they can to prevent an alien win, and its only because the maps allow it.
Map locations do help, but you can't expect every map to be so simple. The ONLY thing that I see forcing the stalemate is the possibility of a grenade launcher.
Otherwise, there's nothing like a 6 person bilebomb rush into a room (say the marine spawn on tanith - very easy to do). A bilebomb/redemption team can just target a structure, obliterate it, and redeem for round 2.
It takes a bit of organization, but it's easy for killing off marine stalemates. Throw in a lerk for umbra support and it's wonderful. You ultimately have to deny the marines their resources to be successful, so my favorite first target is all the turrets getting the kills or the res tower in their base. Often the res tower is the easiest target.
If you have a problem with grenade spam, acid rocket works, as well as spores/spikes/leap if you can live long enough/ just about any other attack.
Ultimately, I as well as other pt's/vets that have posted here cannot recreate a position where there is a 100% stalemate because we all have the practice and knowledge of how to use the various alien classes to counter them.
Stalemates are slow to break sometimes, but if you're trying to get into marine spawn on bast as an onos with 20 turrets, you're not thinking at all. Try a gorge in the vent raining bilebomb down while being umbra'd by a lerk.
All it takes is 1 guy with a gren launcher to make that vent useless to aliens.
3 guys with HMG/GLs makes the elevator a no-no.
A few guys sitting by the revolving door to launch nades in there just as it opens up spells death for whatever was trying to get through there.
Well, we finally capture three hives (while marines were busy taking out Cargo again), and start moving up to the higher evolutions. We retake cargo, and start heading for Marine Spawn when we run into the Heavies. Alien rush breaks down, and all of a sudden we've lost Biodome, and we're about to lose furnace when one of the aliens says, "I just took out the CC." Of course, the rest of the alien are so busy trying to kill heavies and save hives that no one can go to marine start to check it out. Another 10 minutes goes by cleaning out the hives and putting Furnace and Biodome back up. Then Bio starts getting attacked, and the alien team has just lost all the initiative. We scramble to Bio, but it goes down. We retake it, and then Vent gets attacked. All in all, the aliens lose 6 hives in one game before we realize that we haven't seen HMG, or HA, or Turrets for 20 minutes. After cleaning up the at the last lost hive, we decide to rush marine start. What do we see? No CC. Just marines spawning from the two ips and rushing off against the hives. After killing the tf and the ips, we learn that the Marines had amassed 1000 res and had no way to spend it.
We felt like a bunch of noobs <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
-Jag
I apologize to anybody who read that long rambling post, but I thought it was a fun game...
- Ninja Marine
- <b>Siege</b>*
- Heavy Weapon Assault
course in a closely clustered WoLed up last hive situation where the aliens somehow managed to retain enough res to access higher evolutions (basically a bit like the marine alamo bases - but alien style) you can just siege from outside the awesome defences without having to face anything except the aliens who come screeching out of the base to stop you.
The aliens? um... their only options are ninja and assault and the worst part is the marines don't have to leave base at all (unless an onos decides otherwise for them =3 ).
This means in 'bunkered' situations the marines have 1 blazingly clear option while the aliens have to be a bit more inventive.
This wouldn't be so bad if uninventive alien teams just failed and lost (no point in rewarding lack of tactics after all; this is RTSFPS here XD ) but no... they can drag on for aaaaaages. if the marine team mucks up it's back to base, but the aliens can keep the marines pinned in pretty well (plus its hard to motivate people to leave something thats relatively safe to go out into a world full of ambushing skulks and fades, hidden ocs, WoLs and angry oni) so the marines just hold tight and time ticks by.
What I'm getting at really is if the alien team lacks the teamwork to crack the defences there's usually not a decisive loss; just a long dragged out game until either the marines finally collapse, people quit or the marines regain the strength to break free. If the marines lack the teamwork to break an alien defence the aliens pour out across the level once more,causing havoc and eating marine hardware =P
<b>this is a post that i threw on the 'offending server'</b>
my quarrel with this is
stalemates effectively REWARD marines for having lost the game, but having had the good fortune of having an impregnable location.
should the aliens be punished for good playing?
the comm that couldn't figure how to get enough res to get HA in the regular game just sits back on his heels while resources from kills come in. suits up, pushes out, wins the game. if the rush fails? well, just rinse and repeat.
i know this is, technically, 'legal' in all senses of the game. but am i the ONLY one who sees anything wrong here?
the winner isn't really the one who has greater skill or strategies. tenacity shouldn't even be mentioned since it's only tenacious for one side, the aliens. aliens have to constantly throw themselves at a marine base with absolutely no further improvement in their situation (marines still keep their weapons when they die), while marines slowly gain res.
but, once again, not my server. just my two cents.
-hui
Your objective should now be, AVOID DYING. If they're sitting on 0 res nodes, you should have them weaker and weaker as time progresses. Redemption is very advantageous here. Large upgrades, such as fades or onii (provided there is room) will be useful.
If you quit attacking the marine base for a long enough period, marines will start to move out. Make your move then.
The point is, if the marines are only surviving because you are feeding them the res to survive... back off for a minute or 2. Make them spend the res, then hurt them as soon as it's spent.
In addition, if the commander does lame up and score some HA, just stomp/devour them. Multiple onos should almost be expected that late into the game.
Agreed, it's a lame strat, but it's beatable. Most often, you'll only find this if people play not to win or lose but for the stalemate. Sorry it happens, but it is beatable, and I can't say I've ever seen a marine team win in any position when they're turtled in a base.
recycle it all, build 3 obs and make a funny beaconing end. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS 2.0 gameplay is killing NS, not stalemates in general. Yet, its getting better.
When aliens are dragging on an endgame FOREVER it's usually because they are too green to be able to.
IMO Nade spam was not the unbreachable wall it was cracked up to be, a few onos with regen would usually run up and swallow the GL guys. Onos just had to take something other defence upgrade than that cheapish 2.0 redemption.
In rine endgame is the same as 2.0, it usually depends on how willing the comm is to finish the game. Aliens cant really break a marine sige during the endgame, nor can they halt the HA weld train for long.
tell me how fast an onos can climb up the red ladders in sewer, go forward in them, drop down, eat, and climb back up, back out the minihall, and back down the ladders.
problems they'll face?
grens as they're coming up
hmgs as they're coming down
hmgs as they're eating
hmgs as they're goin back up
grens as they're goin out
i agree a lot of it is a function of the maps - some just not having been created with this in mind.
but i now, for example, just got off of an ns_bast game where the marines got schooled but we have to sit around for an entire game while they get res off their one nozzle, suit up, and come out and die. and then repeat. and then repeat. it really kills the fun of NS when the stalemate portion (not the open/midgame strategizing portion) of the game takes up over half of the time.
Not true.
There is no such thing as a real marine stalemate because marines can do seige and finish the game.