<!--QuoteBegin--Flayra+Sep 16 2003, 09:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Sep 16 2003, 09:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To clear something up: there are no structures planned in NSC. No welders either. I can't decide whether gorges should be in there or not, but they'll probably be removed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> keep the welders and the gorges... they should be in there <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--ElectricSheep+Sep 16 2003, 03:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ElectricSheep @ Sep 16 2003, 03:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It would be fun for a breather on some servers and would widen the community to more deathmatch people. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Because we all know NS needs more rambos. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
it seems like this will approve of stat whoreing and less teamplay <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
One of the major things that I'm sure of is the fact that NS games need a great number of players (at least 16) to get really interesting (someone already stated that Marines would have better chances to win in large games). And you may know how difficult it is to have a bunch of 16 friends to play together on the net or in a LAN.
Wich made NS not very low-amount-of-players friendly.
I do like the idea of MvsM or AvsA because it still remains on the basis of NS (FPS/RTS).
Still this mod... I just don't know. The idea seems interesting, but like alot of people around, I fear that it may create a schism in the NS community or have more people play to NS:C rather than, thus letting the NS community die.
I don't forget that people are lazy by nature, so having fun the easy way will always prevail at least first. And as the dev team said: NS:C is the easy way to NS. Somehow.
Now I've learned that the easy way is always full of mines. But still, you can't really tell until you try and as it seems that it's not like Flayra is asking if we would like it to be implemented before working on the thing but rather like he's telling us that he *will* do it and want some feedbacks on this... I think that the best thing we can do is wait for the thing to come out and try it in order to give a measured and well-documentated feedback.
I'll post more thoughts later I think, after I may have found time to think about it a little bit more.
The success of this mode will depend on the maps that Flayra recieves for it. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
The welder, gorge, and buildings should all be kept in. Why? The mappers may wish to make a "StarShip Trooper"-esk map, where the marines have to take out the alien team that's in a cave; and infested caves just arn't the same without their buildings. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Neither are spaceships the same when there are no weldable doors in a vent to stop the leap-happy skulk from comming into the marine's face.
Marines should be able to build one turret, that has 250 rounds. Gorges should be able to drop every chamber, except hives/resource nodes, to keep the marines on their toes. A marine team with all HMGs may have a hard time against a alien team who has chosen to put down buildings; but to the organized and efficient marine [or alien] team, victory will come much quicker.
Also, should the gorge be able to place a chambers, you could have secret regeneration holds... maybe things that were originally shunned to be put into NS could be re-examined in NS:C... like buildable walls for both sides.
This mode may be ramboish, but only putting this gameplay mode out would show just what it really is. Im for it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Include the gorges! It makes sense! Besides, it will be a crapload of fun when at one point the entire alien team is gorge ganging till they go fades. By keep in GL's and Gorges, this mode will still have a *bit* of teamwork to use!
Also, gorges will still be leathal: Marine's can heal easily... lol gorge spit powa!
However, my beefs with the game right now:
Scent of fear, then pheromones, then cloaking...? Pheromones is a poopy upgrade, it's just a worse version of scent of fear... it should definatly come before scent. Cloaking will obviously be the best upgrade out of this group.
Celerity, Silence, Adrenaline...? Hm... determining the order of these three is a tough one indeed... I think I'll have to settle with your order though.
I think that getting JP's at lv. 1 and HA's at lv. 2 is a tad unfair though... Maybe these two should only be avalible like this:
You can get JP's after level 3, and HA's after level 5.
I've read the news update about NS:C, as well as the mapping guidelines/info, and I am thoroughly looking forward to this new game mode. Sometimes all I really want is to get into some intense action and meyhem, and this new mode will allow me to do so. And now anyone can Rambo to their heart's content. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
sorry if this has been said: its late and theres lots of pages to read, just wanted to voice meself.
I really like this! you know what will happen in the long term yeah? all the 'newbs' and people who cant be arsed with normal games will migrate here, and all the team players and people who love the proper tactical game will stay there.
what a great way to split the community, give all the lamers and noobs and newbs somewhere they can kill (and practise) without disrupting the oldschool players...
it will make a kick **** change from the norm too...
What about when you don't want to play a certain class but you have to in order to get to the next lifeform after that? For example, if I'm a gorge and I want to go onos, first I have to spend a few minutes playing fade. But I don't want to play fade. Can I go straight to onos after saving up the equivelant experience? What if I want to stay skulk? Can I give my experience to someone else once I have all the upgrades?
<!--QuoteBegin--Quaunaut+Sep 16 2003, 10:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Sep 16 2003, 10:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Wait- so is this a new gameplay mode, or the new, ONLY gameplay mode??? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> from what I gather its just a new one - you still would have your "classic" ns
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> RPG genre addition notes - New creep-based resource model. No more boring resource towers that churn away unrealistically. Players wander around the map and battle computer-controlled colonists and insect life. The more they kill, the more cash they get. - Alien players no longer choose when to morph to new lifeforms. Instead, as they battle the NPCs on the ship, they gain levels! I stole that cool "levelling-up" effect from Warcraft also. - There is now "upkeep" when too many players join the server. - Players that don't "role-play" their character (Olde English really helps) will be banned for rogue behavior. - To switch maps, players must now successfully complete "quests". These include: finding seven "power crystals" that have scattered about ns_hera, saving a local colony from unprecedented evil that's attacking relentlessly from nearby mountainous structures and protecting a baby lerk until it can be used as a "familiar". - The Onos has been renamed "Tauren Chieftain". - New "Dungeon Master Mode" where players can choose to run a server with their own house rules, print messages on the screen, modify game rules, kick players at will and generally act like a "Dungeon Master" in their own domain. - Players now have attributes that dictate their running speed, attack damage, encumberance, hit points and charisma. These are assigned randomly when joining a server and they all affect gameplay except charisma. - A third playable race has been added! Orcs are a must in every RPG, and Space Orks are already familiar to players so now it's now Marines vs. Aliens vs. Orkz! The Orkz have Gunz (33% chance of malfunction), War Wagonz (vehicles in Half-life!), Wyvern companions (lerk code reuse) and helmets with spikes (+2 charisma). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't want to be an a** about this but it sounds as though you are implementing the first 2 game play changes from your own April fools spoof. While I have no problem with the idea of creating a new type of game play style for NS I would not like to see it come at the expense of continued work on the old especially considering that there are many hl mods and games that give you this FireArms style of play and so quickly after 2.0/2.1 has come out with such controversy over its quality over 1.4.
I must be the only person who thinks that people might play this to practice their ability to coordinate small squads of teammates using mixed arms/lifeforms, rather than rambo like fools.
In no way can this have a negative effect on the game.
I must be the only person who thinks that people might play this to practice their ability to coordinate small squads of teammates using mixed arms/lifeforms, rather than rambo like fools.
In no way can this have a negative effect on the game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, really, when in DoD, everyone acts like some idiot outta CS? Ya, this is SUURE gonna help.
I love you Flayra. I was nervous when you told me about the new gameplay mode but this is just pure genius.
If not simply for just pure clan practice purpose, it sounds like it will be a team-based game but with extra strategy thrown in (for example as marine supplying your friends with ammo/health, and as aliens being a gorge).
This is an excellent addition that will give NS some extra aspects that some people have found it lacking... maybe a mod finally can appeal to everyone?
Also as far as being a server admin, I am looking forward to the IMMENSE CPU usage drop because there won't be that many buildings etc (more entities) being placed to eat up cycles.
I don't think in itself that this idea is a bad one its just represents a shift in focus in the worst possible direction. I'm just worried that NS will become like CS. When I first played CS right back at the start it had very noble ideals about being a tactical terrorism simulator but then update by update it became the glorified deathmatch it is today. I realise that NS is along way ahead of where CS ever was in the thinking states but PLEASE dont compromise the NS we have now. For all the people whining about balence I honestly think its one of the best games i've ever played certainly in my top 5. By all means go for variety but dont lose sight of the most attractive thing about NS.
I have noticed that a lot of people join NS games just wanting to play CS vs. aliens anyway ("gimme a shottie comm, gimme an HMG, gimmei a Jetpack, gimmie, gimmie, gimmei,....) This gives them some where to go and do that while those who want to play a team game where tactics and strategy are involved can war in peace.
You want to make the mod grow? Concentrate on MvM and AvA first. 2 more matchups will add a lot more variety than just timed fights that already occur in the real game anyway.
Will there be Gorges? If so- what will they be able to do (I'm guessing just build OCs and Spit and Web and stuff)? Can aliens get the kind of upgrades you'd get from Sensory/Movement/Defense chambers? Will aliens start with all their hive-enabled abilities or will you have to pay to get those?
Sounds like something I might try, but I'd have to try it before I'd know if I'd like it or not.
I'd rather you guys get to work on making Marine vs. Marine or Alien vs. Alien games possible.
Thumbs up. I suggest you add a variable, mp_combatsize or something like that, which can allow server admins to set how few players they want to have combat mode on if the option (ex. mp_combatsize 6, if there were 5 players in the server combat mode would be active, but if there were 6 or more combat mode would be turned off)
To those who oppose: remember, this will not alter NS in the form it is now, it is just adding a second option. You would still be able to play NS the way it is now.
Comments
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
keep the welders and the gorges... they should be in there <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Because we all know NS needs more rambos. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Same goes for HA/welders.
One of the major things that I'm sure of is the fact that NS games need a great number of players (at least 16) to get really interesting (someone already stated that Marines would have better chances to win in large games).
And you may know how difficult it is to have a bunch of 16 friends to play together on the net or in a LAN.
Wich made NS not very low-amount-of-players friendly.
I do like the idea of MvsM or AvsA because it still remains on the basis of NS (FPS/RTS).
Still this mod... I just don't know. The idea seems interesting, but like alot of people around, I fear that it may create a schism in the NS community or have more people play to NS:C rather than, thus letting the NS community die.
I don't forget that people are lazy by nature, so having fun the easy way will always prevail at least first. And as the dev team said: NS:C is the easy way to NS.
Somehow.
Now I've learned that the easy way is always full of mines.
But still, you can't really tell until you try and as it seems that it's not like Flayra is asking if we would like it to be implemented before working on the thing but rather like he's telling us that he *will* do it and want some feedbacks on this... I think that the best thing we can do is wait for the thing to come out and try it in order to give a measured and well-documentated feedback.
I'll post more thoughts later I think, after I may have found time to think about it a little bit more.
Again my only fear would be this getting out of hand, but occsionally applied would be fine.
The welder, gorge, and buildings should all be kept in. Why? The mappers may wish to make a "StarShip Trooper"-esk map, where the marines have to take out the alien team that's in a cave; and infested caves just arn't the same without their buildings. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Neither are spaceships the same when there are no weldable doors in a vent to stop the leap-happy skulk from comming into the marine's face.
Marines should be able to build one turret, that has 250 rounds. Gorges should be able to drop every chamber, except hives/resource nodes, to keep the marines on their toes. A marine team with all HMGs may have a hard time against a alien team who has chosen to put down buildings; but to the organized and efficient marine [or alien] team, victory will come much quicker.
Also, should the gorge be able to place a chambers, you could have secret regeneration holds... maybe things that were originally shunned to be put into NS could be re-examined in NS:C... like buildable walls for both sides.
This mode may be ramboish, but only putting this gameplay mode out would show just what it really is.
Im for it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Also, gorges will still be leathal: Marine's can heal easily... lol gorge spit powa!
However, my beefs with the game right now:
Scent of fear, then pheromones, then cloaking...? Pheromones is a poopy upgrade, it's just a worse version of scent of fear... it should definatly come before scent. Cloaking will obviously be the best upgrade out of this group.
Celerity, Silence, Adrenaline...? Hm... determining the order of these three is a tough one indeed... I think I'll have to settle with your order though.
I think that getting JP's at lv. 1 and HA's at lv. 2 is a tad unfair though... Maybe these two should only be avalible like this:
You can get JP's after level 3, and HA's after level 5.
I really like this! you know what will happen in the long term yeah?
all the 'newbs' and people who cant be arsed with normal games will migrate here, and all the team players and people who love the proper tactical game will stay there.
what a great way to split the community, give all the lamers and noobs and newbs somewhere they can kill (and practise) without disrupting the oldschool players...
it will make a kick **** change from the norm too...
from what I gather its just a new one - you still would have your "classic" ns
RPG genre addition notes
- New creep-based resource model. No more boring resource towers that churn away unrealistically. Players wander around the map and battle computer-controlled colonists and insect life. The more they kill, the more cash they get.
- Alien players no longer choose when to morph to new lifeforms. Instead, as they battle the NPCs on the ship, they gain levels! I stole that cool "levelling-up" effect from Warcraft also.
- There is now "upkeep" when too many players join the server.
- Players that don't "role-play" their character (Olde English really helps) will be banned for rogue behavior.
- To switch maps, players must now successfully complete "quests". These include: finding seven "power crystals" that have scattered about ns_hera, saving a local colony from unprecedented evil that's attacking relentlessly from nearby mountainous structures and protecting a baby lerk until it can be used as a "familiar".
- The Onos has been renamed "Tauren Chieftain".
- New "Dungeon Master Mode" where players can choose to run a server with their own house rules, print messages on the screen, modify game rules, kick players at will and generally act like a "Dungeon Master" in their own domain.
- Players now have attributes that dictate their running speed, attack damage, encumberance, hit points and charisma. These are assigned randomly when joining a server and they all affect gameplay except charisma.
- A third playable race has been added! Orcs are a must in every RPG, and Space Orks are already familiar to players so now it's now Marines vs. Aliens vs. Orkz! The Orkz have Gunz (33% chance of malfunction), War Wagonz (vehicles in Half-life!), Wyvern companions (lerk code reuse) and helmets with spikes (+2 charisma).
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't want to be an a** about this but it sounds as though you are implementing the first 2 game play changes from your own April fools spoof. While I have no problem with the idea of creating a new type of game play style for NS I would not like to see it come at the expense of continued work on the old especially considering that there are many hl mods and games that give you this FireArms style of play and so quickly after 2.0/2.1 has come out with such controversy over its quality over 1.4.
I must be the only person who thinks that people might play this to practice their ability to coordinate small squads of teammates using mixed arms/lifeforms, rather than rambo like fools.
In no way can this have a negative effect on the game.
I must be the only person who thinks that people might play this to practice their ability to coordinate small squads of teammates using mixed arms/lifeforms, rather than rambo like fools.
In no way can this have a negative effect on the game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, really, when in DoD, everyone acts like some idiot outta CS? Ya, this is SUURE gonna help.
its a <b>good thing</b>.
If not simply for just pure clan practice purpose, it sounds like it will be a team-based game but with extra strategy thrown in (for example as marine supplying your friends with ammo/health, and as aliens being a gorge).
This is an excellent addition that will give NS some extra aspects that some people have found it lacking... maybe a mod finally can appeal to everyone?
Also as far as being a server admin, I am looking forward to the IMMENSE CPU usage drop because there won't be that many buildings etc (more entities) being placed to eat up cycles.
Let me know when you need some testing Flayra!
-|TE|GoleX
Sounds like something I might try, but I'd have to try it before I'd know if I'd like it or not.
I'd rather you guys get to work on making Marine vs. Marine or Alien vs. Alien games possible.
-JohnnySmash
To those who oppose: remember, this will not alter NS in the form it is now, it is just adding a second option. You would still be able to play NS the way it is now.