Natural Selection: Combat

Flayra · September 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Official discussion and comments</div> Please post your thoughts and comments here. For more information, check the front page news on this site.

nojmaster · September 2003

like how the fighting is ingame and what issues we may have with certain things? Or is NS:C a title for something i dont know about?

edit: ack! nvm <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Edit2: well, from what the website says, are you adding CS rounds to NS? Dont.

Beast · September 2003

GG Me not reading..
Bad idea. Too much like CS/TS/MS/DOD.
Ns should stay as a FPS/RTS hybrid in my opinion <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

nojmaster · September 2003

Nah mate, look at the front page of the webby, it tells about a new gameplay mode they are thinking of adding in.

clamatius · September 2003

I'm going to call all the extra stuff you can get (weapons, lifeforms, etc) toys for lack of a better word.

Kills give you access to more toys, but do you choose what toys you get as a money/resource-based reward? If not, do toys "unlock" and are then available?

Are toys available on a player-by-player basis or on a team basis?

[edit- clarified original post]

Teflon · September 2003

Sounds like Counter-Strike.

I hate counter-strike.

Flayra · September 2003

Yep, you choose what you want next. Ie, if you're a marine, and you go up a level, you can upgrade your weapon. You don't choose what weapon to get, you just choose if you want to upgrade it, and it upgrades the same way every time. So if you upgrade your weapon, you will get a shotgun. Upgrade it again when you get another level, and you get a grenade launcher. Upgrade again, you get an HMG, etc.

When you respawn, you come back with all your equipment and upgrades and keep your level.

I don't think it will be like CS, though I love CS. Games will be a few minutes long, and you'll be evolving your tech during the game. It is basically a very condensed and simplified version of NS. You can upgrade yourself in response to the enemy, but you don't have to worry about resources, building or commander mode.

KarriN · September 2003

Might be pretty good if you just want a short dosage of marine-gnawing action instead of joining a big game. That's pretty much all I have to/can say.

nojmaster · September 2003

I guess a plus to it is that the maps could have a wide variety of environments, because you arent using the nanites or whatever to build stuff, like perhaps a TSA shuttle crashed on a planet where there are aliens or something.

Edit: I can see it being a bit of a "para mode" too. People won't like the change, maybe because its new, or maybe because the gameplay is better suited to how things are now. I don't like the idea really, but i couldn't say why without a bit of thought.

Teflon · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Sep 16 2003, 02:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Yep, you choose what you want next. Ie, if you're a marine, and you go up a level, you can upgrade your weapon. You don't choose what weapon to get, you just choose if you want to upgrade it, and it upgrades the same way every time. So if you upgrade your weapon, you will get a shotgun. Upgrade it again when you get another level, and you get a grenade launcher. Upgrade again, you get an HMG, etc.

When you respawn, you come back with all your equipment and upgrades and keep your level.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
This sounds a lot like Starcraft 'Use Map Settings' games <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

I think marines would be at a serious advantage in the late game if they're even slightly ahead of the alien tech. Simply because:

HA > All levels of Fade.
HA > Most levels of skulk. HA = Xeno.
HA > Most levels of gorge. HA = Webs.
HA > All of lerk.
HA < Onos.

I think NS:C will degrade teamwork, so you'll see aliens having a harder time. And everyone knows the game would be pretty much over when the marines all get shotguns, simply because there's no resource cost attached to them. It'd be a perpetual shotgun rush. And trust me, we held out for 50 minutes against 4 onos, 2 fades, and a bunch of skulks with nothing but 4 turrets and shotguns.

clamatius · September 2003

When you go up a level, do you choose 1 category to upgrade?

Presumably from the marine point of view, categories would include weapons and armour. From the aliens point of view, they have all the different evolutions plus advanced lifeforms. What categories of upgrades are there for each side?

Trojan2 · September 2003

hmmm, sounds intresting, Alot is going to depend on maps for this. I would imaging that with it being "fast and furious" teams are going to lose the abilty to shape the map to there needs with buildings.
Another point, Sounds like it would be a good platform to add some more basic weapons, evolutions and then experiment with there balence.

SHAMPOO · September 2003

Sounds like fun, ns needs more gameplay modes and if this starts that off I see no problem with it.

nojmaster · September 2003

What about alien abilities that the marines only counter with buildings? Cloak comes to mind, where you need obs, and perhaps motion tracking.

Teflon · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (clamatius @ Sep 16 2003, 02:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> When you go up a level, do you choose 1 category to upgrade?

Presumably from the marine point of view, categories would include weapons and armour. From the aliens point of view, they have all the different evolutions plus advanced lifeforms. What categories of upgrades are there for each side?  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I'm concerned about that too. Let's say the first marine upgrade is level 1 weapons and armor. They'll be fighting on par with upgraded skulks. However, do skulks get movement, sensory, or defence chamber upgrades?

Then, marines get shotguns. Shotguns will completely... r*pe the alien team. In a normal NS game, everyone screams SHOTGUNS SHOTGUNS. You take out, taking heavy losses, the shotgun train. Then you can look forward to a lull in shotguns for a while.

In this version, marines get shotguns and it's like the commander made a massive stack of 1000 shotguns in base. You'll never seen an end to them.

ZiGGY · September 2003

time to peg it on my wait-and-see wall. Id imagine one of the game types will never be played, concerning.

ElvenThief · September 2003

While the concept sounds good, it almost reminds me of the WC3 mod for CounterStrike Servers. Picking your "own classes" and upgrades.

On the other hand, I'd be eager to play a variant of this game. It's an easy break from the resource structure and eliminates the amount of teamwork with makes games with newbies frustrating.
I say go ahead with it, but I don't want "old school" ns replaced <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Beast · September 2003

Ammenedment to previous post:
The problem is if this mode becomes more popular, oldschool ns may die out. I don't want that to happen. NS requires tactical thinking to play throughout, making the mod no longer need that is a complete and utter deathwish. I would leave NS if the need for tactical thinking was removed in favour if getting more players personally.

However, Thinking about it, as long as oldschool NS is more popular, I don't have that much of a problem.

AegelWard · September 2003

yeah, NS needs more game modes. a strait DM may be useful for training newbies on how to <b>use</b> the diffrent weapons and ablitys in NS.

i would have sugested 2 or free new (seminew) modes... maybe some kind of game, where the map is pitch black, apart from emergency lighting in a few areas (res nodes, etc?), and a seccondary objective of the marines is to re-activate power? i think it could teach some marine players on how to use their ears to a greater degree, and listen for threats, and encorage alien players to amush more isntead of rush.

*shrug* or maybe something where marines are stranded, and they have to use res to rebuild parts of their ship, or find parts within the map and return them to base?

hehe.. and a fun one for aliens, where marines have to stop them from slaughtering escapting (AI?) civilians...

- maybe these should be in the sugestions forum, but this thread may be apt.. :/

Teflon · September 2003

Actually wouldn't this game mode just mean the winners win more? I'm lucky enough to pop a few skulks before I die. I get a shotgun, proceed to kill a lot of skulks. I die, get HA, and kill the few lorks, etc. I win.

kingmob · September 2003

i will wait and see but

i am worried about the lack of NEED for teamwork

(talks to self)
wait and see
wait and see
dont be a cynic

:-)

SpecIce · September 2003

HMMMM I really don't know about this? but what ever? I can only wait and see. But it could be fun? I guess? BUt who knows? I think this is degrading the teamwork factor which we r already having problems with but what ever have fun hopefully it won't totally messing up a good game? I do see this becoming teh POPULAR MOD THOUGH. = LIKE PLAYING DE_DUST ON CS ALL DAY

Alcapwn · September 2003

hmmm

Now im worried becuase im afraid that if they screw this game mode up (it turns out to be crap) this could be the END of ns!

NOOOO! TAKE ME INSTEAD!!!!ononeoen <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'>

SpecIce · September 2003

MEH JUST START WORKING ON NS 4 HL2 DON't waste your time hahaha I can HELP

Ollj · September 2003

I like the idea of that new gameplay mode.
<b>What i dont like is that it mostly kills the teamplay aspect of ns and lots of players will play ns_ like co_ , or just play co_ . "Im not a noob comm, i rock all co maps"</b>.

<b>In 1.04 i invented a "teamdeathmatch map"</b>, you got teleported in (up to) 5 (toggleable on game start) different arenas, fight for 40 seconds, and the winning team steals one resnode from the loosing team. When you loose too often your base gets crunced to death.
It had much more instant action and a complete new teamplay, it made battle gorges essential (in 1.04) for example.
This map had one disadvantage, it needed 1500 entities (1000 trigger_changetarget) to work with 4 arenas, BUT it was really stable and you even could <b>see the arenas from out of the readyroom</b>.
Another sad point was, that it did not allow Phasegates (for phasing between arenas) and so no onoses (to ballance this) , but it did not kill gameplay.
<b>I would like to see tdm_ maps with most of that entities being hardcoded.</b>

this 3 texts were in the readyroom of all tdm maps to explain the new gameplay in 1.04. im not sure if it would work in 2.0
<a href='http://www.df5jz.de/Ollj/tdm.jpg' target='_blank'>http://www.df5jz.de/Ollj/tdm.jpg</a>

DOOManiac · September 2003

I'm sure you'll make it rockin! :)

Now if we can just get some MvM and AvA going... ;)

Alcapwn · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ollj @ Sep 16 2003, 02:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I like the idea of that new gameplay mode.
<b>What i dont like is that it mostly kills the teamplay aspect of ns and lots of players will play ns_ like co_ , or just play co_ . "Im not a noob comm, i rock all co maps"</b>.

<b>In 1.04 i invented a "teamdeathmatch map"</b>, you got teleported in 4 different arenas, fight for 40 seconds, and the winning team steals one resnode from the loosing team. When you loose too often your base gets crunced to death.
It had much more instant action and a complete new teamplay, it made battle gorges essential (in 1.04) for example.
This map had one disadvantage, it needed 1500 entities (1000 trigger_changetarget) to work with 4 arenas, BUT it was really stable and you even could <b>see the arenas from out of the readyroom</b>.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
sounds like a fun map <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

I just hope they get it right, cause if they dont soem credibility for NS will be lost.

xeNixx · September 2003

1) Why/how is it needed? If people are inexperienced while playing regular NS, then by playing this [new] game type won't they have to make the switch anyway? Seems like a little more work.
2) Seeing your team switch from further NS 2.1 developments to something seemingly unimportant shakes my confidence, makes me wonder if your losing ideas? I hope not, lets vote you off the island Flayra!
3) Its multiplayer? Single? Seems like a good single thing.

AUScorpion · September 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teflon @ Sep 16 2003, 02:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Sounds like Counter-Strike.

I hate counter-strike. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I agree and I too loathe counter-strike.

I don't see this as degrading the NS community atmosphere....

...I see this as butchering it with an overly dull claymore then depositing it in a large pot stored away in the oven to ripen, fester, and surprise the old residents when they want to bake some cookies.

Geminosity · September 2003

lol, sorry but I can't help imagining this as a sort of RPG with an adventure group of a gorge(healer), fade(thief), lerk(mage) and onos(warrior) <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

seriously though... if you made it I'd try it just for a change of scene/pace =3

SpecIce · September 2003

How about we make SENERIO MAPS LIKE were THE MAP IS PRE-ALIENINFESTED. AND MARINES MUST TRY AND CLEAN out the ALIENS? I don't know could be intersting? Starting OFF WITH HA SUITS and ALL STUFF AVALIABLE BUT must capture REZ FROM ALIENS TO GET NEW EQUIPMENT

Natural Selection: Combat

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