2.0
Dark_Elf
Join Date: 2003-06-03 Member: 16967Members
Join Date: 2003-06-03 Member: 16967Members
<div class="IPBDescription">were is the fun in 2.0</div> I first started NS when it was first released and played it all the time. I joined a clan and about 5 months with a respected Aus clan and am still in the clan to day. The only problem is every one in the clan including me do not play NS any more witch is a disappointment. The reason for this Is 2.0 yes the version that was meant to make the game better LOL. The clan I was in played the game to have fun even if we were losing.
The problem I think with ns 2.0 is fun or lack of fun when playing the game. I think the problem is with the game testers when they were testing the game and giving info on what was good and what was not they did not care about what made the game fun they just wonted a game they could have wars on. But there is more to a game then just wining and having wars.
I like V1.04 better then 2.0 because it was a fun game to play and even though 1.04 had a lot of bugs in it, it is a fun game to play.
Plz don’t just ignore what I have said I no I am not the only one to think this.
Don’t just chose clans that are the best chose some that have fun when playing the game.
I must say good work on 1.04 it was fun, but I will not play 2.0 any more.
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The problem I think with ns 2.0 is fun or lack of fun when playing the game. I think the problem is with the game testers when they were testing the game and giving info on what was good and what was not they did not care about what made the game fun they just wonted a game they could have wars on. But there is more to a game then just wining and having wars.
I like V1.04 better then 2.0 because it was a fun game to play and even though 1.04 had a lot of bugs in it, it is a fun game to play.
Plz don’t just ignore what I have said I no I am not the only one to think this.
Don’t just chose clans that are the best chose some that have fun when playing the game.
I must say good work on 1.04 it was fun, but I will not play 2.0 any more.
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Comments
Actually the reason for the current imbalance (and hence supposedly the un-fun-ness) is that Flayra had a version that was totally balanced, but he realised it wasn't fun anymore.
The version released as 2.0 only had 5 days of playtest time AFAIK.
:lerk::
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|-}{MarineFire}{-|
Member of Redphive
<a href='http://redphive.org' target='_blank'>http://redphive.org</a>
2.01e is on almost every server now. Even the CAL-NS matches are using e now, at least they were last night.
Fun is also a personnal opinion, so respect his even if you dont approve it.
I'm talking about fun too. And fun and balance aren't all that dissimilar. Lousy balancing can lead to a distince lack of fun, even to the side that's overpowered. The closer you bring the sides to balance the more fun it can become. Alls I'm suggesting is that he try all versions of 2.0 before saying that it's not fun anymore.
2.0 allowed all players to be able to experience all variants of aliens without a fruity strat like a 2 hive lockdown stopping them.
2.0 is action packed. Most game I've seen don't break more than 25 minutes, unless there is a serious stalemate usually caused by a lack of teamwork on either side.
I prefer standing a chance when I'm alien now. As opposed to getting reamed everytime I get the jump on a marine because he can bunnyhop away and rip through my armor.
I guess i'm segueying into balance again. But the key issue is without balance, it's very "not fun" for a lot more people than just a single player on a team.
Back in 1.04, I had a discussion with an individual who said that he only did 2 hive lockdowns, because he wanted to give his team opportunities to use all weapons and upgrades. Regardless of the fact that the aliens didn't get the same opportunity, he said he did it so his marines could have "fun".
Fast forward to 2.0: You can now get a variety, if not all upgrades pretty damn fast as well as be able to actually afford them. (Good luck getting a commander to give you a shotty in the first 3 minutes of a game in 1.04). The same goes to aliens. No matter what strat the marines use, the aliens have the ability to use all 5 evolutions as well as variate their chambers.
Now, if you feel that the ability for a single person to win the game without the help of anybody else (i.e. jp/hmg in 1.04 or empty base hit as a skulk) is fun, I have to agree. It had its good times. However the game has evolved where rambos usefullness is losing its base.
Just my 2 cents. If you've got any arguement about why "it's not fun to you", I'd like to hear it.
Side note:
Nil_IQ, you are correct. It was around 5 days that the latest version got put out. There was a slew of changes, but the previous tests of 2.0 had seriously lost their "fun" qualities.
I'll think of some points (not nessecarily my thoughts) why people don't find 2.0 fun.
- 2.0 marine games usually end in HA rush.
- Nerfed jetpack, so you can't zip around (I personally thought jetpacks were great fun.)
- 1.04 maps changed dramatically in 2.0.
- Dislike some of the new maps.
- Alien imbalance for so long.
- Losing team F4 before the game ends (was rare in 1.04 for some reason.)
- Turret spam (haven't realized it as much in latest 2.01x.)
- Don't like the weapon additions/removals/changes.
- Something you liked in 1.04 got nerfed (e.g. jetpacks)
- Greedy players who don't use their res (very unfun/frustrating games.)
Generally, the worst games in 1.04 were jetpack rushes, which were atleast quick. In 2.0 I have played some awful games where I just end up quitting because I was bored/annoyed.
Or the HA/Seige rush. But I guess this kinda goes with the turret farming thing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Nerfed jetpack, so you can't zip around (I personally thought jetpacks were great fun.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I tried the new jetpack, didn't notice any difference, what did they do to it again?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1.04 maps changed dramatically in 2.0.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yah, I miss some of the 1.0x layouts, I'm still trying to get used to the new maps, but for me that's some of the fun. Along the same lines the new maps are fun, but like any map they just take getting used to that's all.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Alien imbalance for so long.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right that could have been addressed a little sooner, but oh well. Stuff happens.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Losing team F4 before the game ends (was rare in 1.04 for some reason.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That baffles me too. Why are we suddenly seeing an increase of F4 endgames? I think I'm the last of a dyeing breed who likes to play a game to it's end.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Turret spam (haven't realized it as much in latest 2.01x.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Simply said, this sucks. I've actually played a server that was running the 2.0 ns_seige map and the marine turret spam killed the server, and until the server died the comm was still dropping turrets. There should be an area limt of some kind.
That's about everything that I have to mention. Still I think 2.0 is a better overall game now that the kinks are being worked out, it'll only get better. It will also get more interresting once 2.0 custom maps come out.
2.01e is on almost every server now. Even the CAL-NS matches are using e now, at least they were last night. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yea its on my server now as well. It updated over the weekend while I was away <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
That was what flay wanted in 2.0
Agreed. I left for Planetside/War3 TFT for about 3-4 months when 1.04 was out. 2.0 is way more fun in my opinion. Loads more strategy and variety.
I particularly like Sensory chambers being useful, and the fact that all 3 chambers are fairly good starting chambers.
In fact the only thing I <i>don't</i> like is that in pubs it's really hard to get the marines to win. I can go out there being nigh invincible to skulks and generating lots of kills, then we end up losing it because of a poor commander or some other reason. I personally don't like commanding much, since I don't have a mic to issue orders (typing doesn't get peoples' attention and eats up a lot of time).
Man, there's nothing more fun than going early Lerk (after dropping a single RT, then killing a bunch of marines to accelerate my rez rate). Those poor marines, constantly eaten away by acid spores and spikes <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
2.01e looks very balanced and i think after i found out the major chnages to 2.0 then i can safly say 2.0 is far better than 1.04 in almost all ways.
The clan that I am in are still a clan but we do not play NS any more (no fun).
We have fun playing other game now but still we never had as much fun as we did with 1.04.
And if this is what Flay wonted well then I am disappointed. The v1.04 I think was the best game ever made and now (2.0) it is just one big disappointment.
(It’s not just me think this)
no!
it was all about hive-lockdowns/mass turret farming
It was WORSE than the released 2.0 literally 1 game the aliens had a team of 5 regen onos and the marines had 30+ turrets in each hive, the onos couldn't even get to the turrets to hit them.
And if this is what Flay wonted well then I am disappointed. The v1.04 I think was the best game ever made and now (2.0) it is just one big disappointment.
(It’s not just me think this) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And the point of your post is?
Flayra and co made the best multiplayer mod ever IMO. Thousands of people play it. It's a team-work mod, and the first mod. Playing as a team is very rewarding especially when you know you've helped your team to a victory.
Your thread just seemed like an attempt at starting a flame war over 1.0 vs 2.0.
Yet I think one of the main problems in my experience is the lack of to-and-fro in games. 2.0 games seem to move inexorably in the favour of one of the teams. Very rarely have I seen a significant turnaround, where one team appeared to have the upper hand, yet got driven back and lost. When one team gets ahead, they stay ahead. For example, 2-hive lockdowns for aliens seem <i>worse</i> to me in 2.0 - I'm sure I saw more being overcome in 1.04, despite having evolutions limited by hives.
This makes it seem like there's less to play for - one tends to get consumed with despair and boredom if losing because it seems so unlikely that one can recover.
Those were the days, but they made for long drawn out battles. One of the aims of 2.0 was to shorten game time. Although I have played games like that in 2.0, but for that both sides must be evenly balanced, res wise and skill wise. A Great deal of teamwork helps also, as well as a gorge who always has enough res for a hive when one goes down (yay me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> )
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is because of the res that the teams get for killing the other team. When one team has the upper hand they just get strongest and then there is no way for the other team to win. I think that the res for kill should be taken out and then see how the game goes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now RFK. RFK is a way to allow the team that's down to still have a fighting chance. Aliens are down, but they're able to munch on a few marines and get some res they might just have enough to evolve into something useful to the team, like a gorge who can throw a hive up or an onos that can clear a hive out. For the marines killing those precious few aliens could mean the commander can get that one upgrade you need to take out a hive or two. RFK may not be much, but in the game I mentioned above it was all the difference. RFK allowed aliens to keep pushing against an agressive marine team that was working as a team, and it allowed the marines to push back against the aliens.
That baffles me too. Why are we suddenly seeing an increase of F4 endgames? I think I'm the last of a dyeing breed who likes to play a game to it's end.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments of the original poster. I simply find 2.x less fun than 1.04. I play games because they are fun, not because they are fair. My thoughts on this can be found in a similarly titled “where did the fun go” post by me (search on my nick).
I only quoted this one part above because the answer is clear. People F4 when they know what's going to happen, and find it boring or wasteful to spend – in the case of 2.x – the next 15++ minutes of their lives. Thus, the increase in observed F4'ing in 2.x is testimony to the fact that a) you can predict an outcome of a game with much more certainty than in 1.04, and b) endgames are far more prolonged in 2.x.
In 1.04 there were more last-ditch efforts you could try. Players didn't F4 b/c they thought they still had a chance and/or knew the end would come swiftly, so they played it out. 2.x encourages turret-farming (ugh). Both sides have better "turrets" in 2.x (ugh). Jps are slow to research and too expensive to be fast and loose with for a quick move. Taken together, players find it more futile/aggravating to resist an endgame situation.
If you admin a server and pay attention to your regulars from 1.04, chances are they griped with frustrations about 2.x at first, but are playing less now, or not at all. Given what I’ve seen on the servers I frequent, it's not a small population of the community.
Sure, in 1.04 the path for marine victory with highest odds was jp/hmg. With all the changes going on these days, I don't know why a nerf like not allowing jps to carry hmg/gl (say, due to weight constraints) was every tried for 1.04. Ignoring that for a second, on very mature 1.04 servers, jp/hmg rushes were expected and could be defended from time to time (lerks/webs). Furthermore, jp/hmg tactics were becoming shunned upon b/c they were boring, and were replaced with shotties (weak ones, remember) or other tactics. However, there is no doubt that playing 1.04 forever would become boring at some point. Yet, it was still fun (web at hive 2, babblers, lerk biting, real jps, leap kills, less dependence on turrets, more dependence on a smart dedicated gorge, etc).
Here’s the funny/sad part:
Experienced players from 1.04 or earlier (i.e. those that didn't think jp/hmg was the end of the world everytime) probably had more fun in public servers at 1.04 than 2.x. Yet 1.04 was not balanced. Why it wasn’t tweaked for balance is beyond me. In any regard, 1.04 was not good for clan play. With 2.x, developers focused on balance, using clannies to “help” figure out what to change, one goal probably being to increase the player-base/mod-reputation with clan play. However, while 2.x is more balanced, it is less fun for the pub population. In the end, you reduce the interest of those players who’ve enjoyed the fun in prior versions. You tend to lose those experienced players to disappointment/frustration with 2.x. You’re left with the new-to-NS population, and your ability to have a competitive clan base is diminished. Overall, is the mod better off, or worse?
I had an awesome game where the aliens were losing their second hive to a pack of HA/HMGs (which were rampaging unstoppably across the map) but someone had managed to get a 3rd hive up and web/skulks stopped the attack flat. I still remember the guy radioing <i>"WEB!" </i> as I cowered behind the last of the offense chambers, desperately healing them. I then threw up a ton of webbing and watched 2 skulks and a lerk swoop in for the kill.
Lastly, I've seen marines pull off some spectacular comebacks where they load up HMG/HA and manage to kill 1 or more hives - on just a 2-3 RT diet, without controlling a single hive.
The only time the game is particularly one-sided is when one team has more players or significantly better players.
I have more fun playing 2.0, than I ever did in 1.0x. I'm not just talking about scrims either, it's just more fun than constantly getting HMG/JPed. There's variation in play now.
In 1.04, all aliens could do was desperately try and keep the marines from getting jetpacks. If you got really lucky you might get up a second hive before the marines took down your main. All the marines had to do was grab a node or two, guard, and hold until they could get Jetpacks, and it was game over.
Now, you've got more options. Marines don't always win now. You could try a JP/Shotty rush, you could grab the HA and some HMGs/GLs. You can just tech up and pull a upgraded shotty rush in LA. Aliens have 3 choices for starting chambers instead of just purely DMS.
Like I said in the beginning, I don't really play for the competition, I play for fun. Competition is just to get some actual teamwork, and some more adrenalin running in the veins.
Anyway you said exactly what I wonted to THX.
If only Flay and the team would see what we are trying to say and maybe tack it in to consideration.