Who Likes The New Leap And Charge?
titaniumone
Join Date: 2003-08-29 Member: 20361Members
Join Date: 2003-08-29 Member: 20361Members
before anything else, i just want to say that <b>this is not a discussion about returning leap and charge to rely on your framerate. this has nothing to do with framerate dependancy. i am not asking for these features to be framerate dependant again</b>. please, until you understand that <b>i am not asking for framerate dependency to be returned</b>, do not reply to this post.
after testing leap out in 2.01d, i found it takes about 6 leaps to kill a marine with no upgrades. this was tested by several aliens leaping several different stationary marines who were standing against a wall. there was no missing or "lack of skill" involved. we got the most damage possible out of every hit, and it still took about 6 leaps to kill someone ("about" because i forget exactly how many it was. at least 5, no more than 7).
i have heard many people complain about this already since 2.01d was released, and it bothers me as well. i believe how leap was in 2.01b when you had 99fps was reasonable. you could kill a marine with no armor upgrades in one leap as long as you could stick to them for all of the "touches" leap does. this is not extremely easy to do, and it was <i>virtually</i> (not entirely, though) impossible to do if your target is moving around.
leap should be more than a method of transportation. that is about all it is good for now. it does so little damage it's basically worthless. although you can close in on a marine quickly, it was a much more fun ability before, and it was also very useful. it gave the skulk a lot more power and a lot more versatility. skulk is a lot less fun to play now that leap can no longer do a decent amount of damage.
i believe the same about charge, although it is less of an issue. charge is supposed to do "incredible" damage, so why does it take a charging onos about 1.5 seconds to kill a light armor marine when running directly into them? the way charge was in 2.01b when you had 99fps was much more reasonable. a light armor marine with no upgrades should die almost instantly (less than 0.5 seconds of contact). a third hive ability for the onos should be able to put down light armor pretty much instantly, just as a heavy armor marine with a level 3 shotgun can put down skulks pretty much instantly.
i do not believe either of these requests are unreasonable. i do believe that both would add a little fun to both abilities.
<b>i suggest that the skulk's leap ability and the onos charge ability be modified so that regardless of your framerate, they do as much damage as they did in 2.01b when you had 99 frames per second.</b> this makes it fair for everyone, no matter their framerate, yet returns leap and charge to doing a reasonable amount of damage.
after testing leap out in 2.01d, i found it takes about 6 leaps to kill a marine with no upgrades. this was tested by several aliens leaping several different stationary marines who were standing against a wall. there was no missing or "lack of skill" involved. we got the most damage possible out of every hit, and it still took about 6 leaps to kill someone ("about" because i forget exactly how many it was. at least 5, no more than 7).
i have heard many people complain about this already since 2.01d was released, and it bothers me as well. i believe how leap was in 2.01b when you had 99fps was reasonable. you could kill a marine with no armor upgrades in one leap as long as you could stick to them for all of the "touches" leap does. this is not extremely easy to do, and it was <i>virtually</i> (not entirely, though) impossible to do if your target is moving around.
leap should be more than a method of transportation. that is about all it is good for now. it does so little damage it's basically worthless. although you can close in on a marine quickly, it was a much more fun ability before, and it was also very useful. it gave the skulk a lot more power and a lot more versatility. skulk is a lot less fun to play now that leap can no longer do a decent amount of damage.
i believe the same about charge, although it is less of an issue. charge is supposed to do "incredible" damage, so why does it take a charging onos about 1.5 seconds to kill a light armor marine when running directly into them? the way charge was in 2.01b when you had 99fps was much more reasonable. a light armor marine with no upgrades should die almost instantly (less than 0.5 seconds of contact). a third hive ability for the onos should be able to put down light armor pretty much instantly, just as a heavy armor marine with a level 3 shotgun can put down skulks pretty much instantly.
i do not believe either of these requests are unreasonable. i do believe that both would add a little fun to both abilities.
<b>i suggest that the skulk's leap ability and the onos charge ability be modified so that regardless of your framerate, they do as much damage as they did in 2.01b when you had 99 frames per second.</b> this makes it fair for everyone, no matter their framerate, yet returns leap and charge to doing a reasonable amount of damage.
Comments
The way leap is now, it's stupid. Transport my arse. The way it's done it should be a killer weapon.
GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGG leap.
although i do agree with you on this, in a case like this it's very possible to have both abilities do as much damage as they did at 99fps but even for people with low framerates. sometimes you have to pick between making something fun (such as putting in a flamethrower) or making things accessable to people with old computers (flamethrower would create a lot of sprites and choke old computers, meaning it cannot be done), and there is no middle ground.
however, in this case, <b>both parties (those who get 99fps and those who get 9fps alike)</b> can be even and have a weapon that does just as much damage. i simply think it should do as much damage as it did in 2.01b with 99fps, rather than 2.01b with 9fps (which is what it is more like now).
Flame incoming in 3
2
1
NAPALM AWAAAAAAY!
Leap never was a weapon to the low-fps'ers, and i dont see why it should be, as we played all of 1.0x just fine without.
Charge had never done much damage in 1.0x for low-fps'ers, and even in 2.00 the onos first attack is more effective, doing more direct damage where i want it, and not wasting my adrenaline doing measly damage to things i brush by. i want to use all of my adrenaline devouring an HA and then goring his buddies, i dont want play pinball touching turrets for small amounts of damage.
I also use charge as a method of transportation, but as the hive thee ability i agree that this should be changed. some way of doing more effective damage should be implemented.
No, you have it wrong. A 3 ton monster running at a light marine is like getting hit by an 18-wheeler. Youre dead. Charge damage WAS FINE in 2.0.
But it should also have a "cooldown" timer like Charge. Yuo can't charge again until you have at least 20/30% energy recharged (I'd research on this if I had a computer with HL).
I used to leap people to death all the time in 1.04, and the game was not very FPS friendly to me. If I leaped, I usually had some FPS lag issues, so there was no bonus for me.
Make Leap the weapon it's supposed to be, not for transport.
Parasite is deadlier than Leap now...
Same with leap, although I find that switching to bite still works. Leap itself should be a fiersome attack. Imagine a creature leaping at you at perhaps 20-30 m/s with claws outstretched. I'm sure that unless the marines are wearing some kind of enhanced armor plating, they should take considerable damage from such an attack.
they are fine now, before it was TOTALLY unfair that an onos could kill 4 marines in a row with one attack. Aleins are WAY over powered the way they are now, in fact i think ti would be better if charge had its damage reduced even further
2)
I play on dial up and a 233mhz computer, why should gusy with cable and a geforce 5 have such a large advantage over me? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) you think it's unfair that the onos, the highest level lifeform the aliens have, using a 3rd hive (endgame) ability, can kill a ton of marines in one go?
do you also think that it's unfair that a marine in heavy armor with level 3 shotgun can take on 8 skulks in a row (assuming he has good game, that's one bullet per skulk)?
you're comparing the highest level lifeform using its' best ability to the lowest level of the other side. not a very fair comparison.
2) you apparently did not read the first paragraph of my post. please re-read it.
It's perfectly fine the way it was in 2.0. If you don't like it, go back to CS.
It boils down to simple mathematics. Much like how Marines are not equipped with JP's or HA for the majority of the game, aliens are not higher tier classes, and are skulks for the vast majority of the game. I would say for most part a persons game time is 85% skulk.
However, unlike marines whose abilities scale as resources are put into upgrades, skulks upgrades are balanced to compete with 'vanilla' marines, and are also expected to compete with upgraded marines. That doesn't make a tremendous amount of sense, right?
Of course it doesn't! Enter the extra skills with hives. For example, our good friend Leap. When aimed successfully, a skulk can leap, switch to bite, and score a quality amount of damage to a marine, often times killing him. This is not always an easy task to accomplish, as it involves aiming your leap as well as flying straight towards a marine with no dodging - a pretty easy target for your trained marine.
However, leap biting has now been nerfed to the point of not being a useful skill. I can leap and hit a marine, but it does about the same damage I would do just normally biting him. I could forego jumping in a straight line at him with a clearly audible sound altogether and simple dodge my way up close and begin biting him. I've tried multiple leap attacks, and frankly its no better than simply doing things the old fashioned way.
So what we have is a skill with no real combat application. It is unrealistic to expect a skulk with no extra damage to take out upgraded marines, especially with weapons like the shotgun making a marines life easier than it ever was.
I realize the leap nerf was so that everyone was on an even playing ground in regards to FPS. Great, although people with higher fps are still at the advantage simply because they have the smoother gameplay, but thats not really relevant to this.
Balancing it for all players as much as possible is good. Punishing people who have computers that aren't a) built last decade or b) their moms compaq or c) both is ridiculous. It's unrealistic to think the average player plays half life at 30 fps. This game is ancient, and while NS does push it to its limits, it is still very low on requirements by todays standards.
For balancing reasons I would like to see the damage from a leap-bite, the closest thing to a combo-hit sort of maneuver a skulk has, be upped to what it was capable of in the 70-100 fps range.
It was the only thing keeping the skulks viable in the late game, and the fact is that the majority of people ARE skulks in that late game, so it would make sense for our potential damage to ramp upwards to combat the marines potential damage as well as their ability to take twice as many bites (where as the skulks ability to take damage remains the exact same)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- <- line
that's impossible. unless the HA were standing in a line and not firing, it would not happen.
not only would you run out of adrenaline before you could kill that many heavies, but eight heavies with shotguns? two shots from each heavy would be enough to kill the onos. i'd be surprised if an onos could kill <b>one</b> heavy if there were 7 others around him with shotguns, let alone all 8.
of course sometimes you're going to have a very good player easily killing many players who are not as skilled. that doesn't mean that the ability isn't fair. it simply means they are better at using it than you are.
Leap, however, is not.
Cannot say this enough.
Then those heavies deserved it. How do you not kill an Onos with 8 shotguns at ultra-close range.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->charge is really pathetic now, gore does MUCH more damage that charge does now. I did some tests and found that full adrenaline bar of charge only damages an armslab to 1/2 health. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
its not fine when you are better off using gore. gore is a 0 hive ability, charge is a 3 hive ability, see the problem?