Keys To Marine Wins: Phase And Siege
Fodder
Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19350Members
Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19350Members
This is just my take from what I've seen on public servers: Winning comms rely more heavily on phase gates and siege turrets. Although many things go into making a good comm, the biggest problem I see is that most comms don't build enough of these structures.
Phase gates do incredible things for the mobility of your team, and most winning games end up with anywhere between 3-5 phase gates at bases/key locations. Not every RT needs one, but you need a good phase network.
Siege turrets are stupid powerful. They can fire through walls! How can you not love that? Most winning comms don't have a problem with dropping siege liberally outside hives and double res locations to take them.
Just my 2 cents. Alien strengths are their higher lifeforms; Marines strengths are their structures. To play to those strengths, I think comms should hand out less toys and focus more on expanding and building.
Phase gates do incredible things for the mobility of your team, and most winning games end up with anywhere between 3-5 phase gates at bases/key locations. Not every RT needs one, but you need a good phase network.
Siege turrets are stupid powerful. They can fire through walls! How can you not love that? Most winning comms don't have a problem with dropping siege liberally outside hives and double res locations to take them.
Just my 2 cents. Alien strengths are their higher lifeforms; Marines strengths are their structures. To play to those strengths, I think comms should hand out less toys and focus more on expanding and building.
Comments
Phases and sieges are great, but you still need toys to take good phase/siege positions to begin with. And, yeah, I love my phasegates. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Too many phase gates means that it takes too long to get to hotspots. I like a maximum of 3 gates. One at the marine start, and 2 more at each hive.
As for siege, it takes too large an investment. You need a TF, at least 4 turrets, an upgrade and then at least 2 siege canons. That's a lot of money, not to mention that usually you're constructing all this while being attacked and so you could lose all of it. I'd rather invest this money in a HA train.
Here's my generic 2.01b com strategy. When you start, drop an IP, armory and TF. I used to group them together and electrify the TF, but it's still possible to attack the unprotected structures safely (exploit?). So now I just wait until midway through the game before dropping 3 turrets (25rp difference). The second IP can wait until midgame too.
While the 3 structures are being built, listen for the hive. I don't know if this is an exploit, but the main hive will have the faint healing sound. Now send most of your marines towards an unoccupied hive, leaving 1 or 2 at base for defense. On the way to the hive, cap and electrify every RT. Once in the hive, cap and electrify that RT. Don't bother defending this hive with turrets yet. Immediately head for the OTHER unoccupied hive.
Again, cap and electrifying RTs on the way to the second hive. In the meantime, you should have phase tech by the time you reach the second hive. Don't worry too much about double nodes. If they're empty, cap them. If they're well defended, skip them - you'll come back later. If you're lucky, the second hive is also empty (usually it is since this is still early in the game, and hopefully the aliens haven't gotten too much RFK). If not, then you have to put a gate close there and assault it. And if the hive is in the middle of being built, tell your marines not to shoot anything for the love of god until you get your TF and 4 turrets and phase gate up in view of the hive. Once you gain control of the second hive, and it is defended with a TF and at least 4 turrets then cap the RT. Place a phase gate if you don't have one already (or recycle the old assault gate and build a new one protected by the turrets).
If you can afford it, get armor 1 and then weapons 1 and 2. The rest can wait. Also don't waste medpacks on rambo marines who are in the middle of a fight. It's usually a waste of resources.
Now phase back home and head for the first hive. Again, build a TF, 4 turrets and a gate. Now that you have 2 hives, you save up for the HA train. Once you have enough for a minimum of 4 HAs (about 200rp), you can head for the 3rd hive. The important thing is to deny them bile bomb and hold onto your rts as long as possible. Since building and electrifying an rt costs 40rp, and you get 1 rp every 5 seconds, you need to hold onto each rt for more than 3 minutes for it to pay back.
Too many phases means the marines must constantly press "use" on the phase gate to get to their destined location. Nothing annoys me more than having to go through five different locations before I get to my desired location.
Seiges might be extremely powerful, but they come at an extremely high cost. I don't know the exact cost for a seige outpost is, but it ranges somewhere around 50-60 resources, and don't expect the seiges to defend themselves. You'll need at least 3-4 turrets to defend the seiges (unless of cost, the commander decides to recycle it), so all in all, a seige outpost could cost somewhere around 100 resources . This kind of resources could be used to hand out at least five heavy machine guns or 10 shotguns. Don't misunderstand me, seiges have their purposes, but they should only be used for objectives that can't be done with heavy weapons.
And the tfac isn't supposed to cover a marine base, they shrunk its range down in testing to avoid that. 2.01b's new range is to prevent exploiting that allows skulks to attack the electrified structure itself.
As for the electrified TF in the marine base protecting structures, I place everything next to the TF (almost occupying the same space if possible), and that should protect both structures from skulks, but sometimes it doesn't.
1). Marines are defending the outpost, not attacking the hive. The defender usually has the advantage (i.e. no ambushes, make good use of ranged weapons, etc).
2). A successful siege outpost can be left in place, and fortified, to lockdown the hive.
3). You don't have to worry about sending your expensive, inexperienced HA train into a relatively undefended hive, and watching them all get owned :/
For phasegates, I try to keep 3 max. I will secure my first hive and head to the 2nd to take it down while building. If this is successful, I will plan the strike on the last hive. As soon as the phase is up at the last hive strike zone, I will recycle the 1st hive phase (and sometimes the 2nd if it's well secured). This might be a little risky, but it's worth it to get marines quickly back to the last hive <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The only way to seige the sewer hive on ns_caged is to build the seige on top of the ramps. They changed the range of the seige awhile ago, but before that seiges could reach the hive without having to be built on the ramps.
Even when the sieges don't reach the hive (mostly due to map redesign specifically to acheive that), they usually kill just about everything else in the room. Just go finish it yourself.
when ur armory is upgrading u cant tell evry rine to walk back to base pick up a 8 shotguns
go back to double res and try to kill it with all its off chams,
build up a siege outpost and u prefent ur aliens from getting res, it takes just a half minute to set up with 3 rines guarding it despide aliens are attacking
Aliens smart brain dont tell them they need higherlifeform cause they cant afford too loose the 2 rts and they wasted all res in the double rts.
u surely kill 10 skulks with ur little outpost, means u get 20 res from wasting 90 res and killing 50alienres
Normally i use siege to defend hives, but if u know u can kill with them and slow the khaara down, do it.
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With seiges you can't really drop chambers, thusly you either drop further away or hoard for bigger aliens.
PGwise, I've said it elsewhere and I'll repeat for your convenience - recycle obsolete phases. By endgame you'll only be needing one at base and one at each hive at the most. Generally you can get away with one at base and one at two hives. Or two midpoint between hive 1-2 and hive 2-3. Depends how you've taken the hives.
Sieges do one thing EXTREMELY well... They force the aliens to come to you:
Rather than risking ambush in a narrow hallway or in a hive full of DC and MC, you can force the opponent away from their strongpoints and force them to fight on your terms. Sun Tzu would be thrilled to have siege turrets.
I was playing a 9 vs 9 game, and we had turned the tide of battle in our favor. We had 2 sizeable turretfarms and a guy who phased around, guarding them against gorges
After a long hard battle we had basicly wiped the alien RTs, reducing them to a meager 3 active nodes, but they still held two hives. We held 6 RT's and had over 400 res in reserve..
I commed the game and decided that taking cargo would kill two flies with one squat bu taking out both a hive and 2 of their remaining res. So I sent 7 HA, 2 with GL, 2 with SG and 3 HMGs to kill Fusion.
Cargo was a massacre on the few aliens who tried to oppose the weld train. So i wanted to get a few sieges, but the marines decided to move in and finish the hive... At the time i figured "ahh what the hell", and recycled the TF, momements later two Onii rushed in, started stomping my HA squad while a fade and some skulks finished them........
I'll admit that this could have been avoided by better squad tactics but still, having build a few sieges instead, would have forced the aliens to fight in cargo instead of a narrow hallway where stomping onos dominated them.
Because of the reserve res had reached 500+ at this point it was merely a delay. But loosing that many HA in a single assault can turn an easy victory into a humbling experince, thus a prefer to do it the "safe" way. Rather than rushing in hopeing to deliver decisive strike.
Actually, Sun Tzu detested sieges.
"When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be damped. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength. Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor damped, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue. Thus, though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays."
Sieges are good for beachheading an area and clearing out the inevitable gorge ambush. It nukes hives and nukes spawners, it clears out nasty chambers near base. It does not "force the enemy to come to you on your terms", instead it gives the aliens something to beat down before they can reinforce a position.
I, as a gorge, can drop a hive and sensory chamber and do so in such a fashion that normal turrets can't hit it. Siege stops that from happening. I view it more as a watchdog than a way of forcing the enemy to attack on your terms.
Either you are just wrong, or you havent understood me, im talking about assault here. Not defending a position.
If you park a siege outside an alien hive, they have to come out and fight among YOUR turrets, in an area where you have an obs, countering cloak, and most improtantly where YOU get to take up defencive positions, (assumning you use a good siege spot, there should also be some chockepoints that they have to pass).
Anyway, sieging is good if the time is right and the pay off is big. It is very rare if you need to seige step by step. Good siege targets: Double res, hives, chokepoints.
On occaisons where I'm trying to retake RTs that have been lamed up I usually have to siege. GL would be less expensive, but it's too slow. Besides, I could use the TF and to put turrets.
Now don't give me crap about "use it for equipment" or "upgrades" because I have those researching or dropped all the time. Because of the research time, I need something to do yknow? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
EDIT: One thing I like to do is grab the res on one side of the map, let the aliens take the double node and lame it up. With the other RTs I can afford to send in a squad and siege it out. Bye bye to alien outpost. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> After that it's marine advantage all the way. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
This is not how you start a pleasant response to a fellow poster.
"He would have a hardon the size of Mt. Everrest if he saw NS-siege turrets."
No, he would not, because the siege is for SIEGING. It IS for cutting off supply lines - no chambers, no res towers, no hives. You wait for the Kharaa to run out of res, and then quite possibly they rush you in an attempt to claw back RFK.
"Either you are just wrong, or you havent understood me, im talking about assault here. Not defending a position."
A siege is a stationary device, thus the only way it could be used for assault is as part of a turret crawl. Which costs res. Which leads back to Sun Tzu's references to the COST of sieging. To offensively use a siege, you need a TF, turrets to save the tf, and quite possibly a PG to send people TO the TF. You cannot afford to build those everywhere.
"If you park a siege outside an alien hive,"
Then you are besieging the hive. You are not "assaulting" it, you're just parked outside and waiting for it to fall to your siege and occasional rush. Assaulting is different, in that it doesn't involve a ring of defences being built around the target.
"they have to come out and fight among YOUR turrets"
Which is not what you want because you are piling res into welders and repairing tfs while they throw everything at you. And once you have built it, you are COMMITTED to staying there, because you can't afford to "waste" the res it cost to build.
Second, its not fighting "on your terms". You have no choice but to face what they throw at you. Which could be ANYTHING. You can't fall back, you can't retreat, because all that res is GONE. Meanwhile half the aliens who aren't needed at your Siege can harass your base with relative impunity, or run around the map finding weak spots and exploiting them.
Sieging cripples marine victories, because marines can't afford to lame up an area and "hope" it knocks down a hive.
Case in point, tonights game on Lunixmonster. Tanith, marines lame up Fusion Reactor. Some aliens run off to build waste, the rest spam rush the marine build up. TF goes down, tf comes back, tf goes down, tf comes back. Marines keep coming in through the PG and die to lerks. They kill fusion hive, but by this point the aliens have waste hive, regen and cara. Then they get movement from waste hive., and the tf, pg, siege and turrets ALL go down. Marines fallback to satcom, then counterrush, which was brutally put down by skulks. Then satcom is wiped out by two skulks who spam rushed the TF, then sat on the PG.
End result? Aliens win, because the marines committed too much res to siege points under the same mistaken belief that the siege is an assault weapon. They took a hive, but with no effect to chambers or the alien effort, because they ALL had to defend their expensive siege.
This is not how you start a pleasant response to a fellow poster.
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Huh, sorry if you feel stepped on, but I really dont see what you dislike about that sentence, appart from the bad grammer that is <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> (ok so maybe it a bit to the point as well)
Anyway I'm happy to discuss it but I still disagree.
Sieges back then lasted for days/weeks/months at a time, during which you had to feed your entire army, and at the same time you keept them from farming their land, making food an ever more expensive comodity, bottom line the cost of siege was immense. An average siege base will cost about 100 - 150 res, complete with obs and armory, which is certainly not cheap but still far from a fortune. While you may argue that I'm still besieging the hive, it will never last more than a few minutes (I doubt that constitutes long delays), during which you costs will be a few medpacks which i would have to let go anyway, and the res from kills will like more than compensate me.
The cost for the aliens is usually also more than just the hive, it will usually be an rt, some OC/DC/SC/MC or whatever (easily worth the same as the siege base itself), but most importantly time... Hives dont exactly build themselves fast.
After a siege has ended i usually have a firm grip on a new rt or two, an new outpost from which i can viciously lash out at the surrounding alien rt's (added mobility). A good siege base can, in itself, tie up many more ressources than is costs to construct over time (good marines wont simply let a single gorge bile their expansions to hell).
As for spending my res on upgrades: I'm not "turret farmer Brown" here and I usually have all my weapons and armor upgrades done before the game ends, win or loose. The second I have two rts up and running at the start of a round I will upgrade like there is no tomorrow. Upgrades should get priority over eveything except new rt's and the occationnal GL or welder.
So? They found out your siege attempt in its infancy and kicked your butt. Don't blame it on the siege. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
If you look at purification station from the comm chair, the left ladder. Place your TF tight up against it on the left side of it. Put the 2 seiges and 2 sentries up on the left vent, it hits, wonderfully also I might add. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> You use the sentries to block off any alien reach to the seiges except from going down the other ladder, and up that one if you do it correctly.
GG
So? They found out your siege attempt in its infancy and kicked your butt. Don't blame it on the siege. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh, yarh..
If the marine team couldn't hold the huge open space there, even with turrets in place, they probably deserved to loose anyway.
This is not how you start a pleasant response to a fellow poster.
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Huh, sorry if you feel stepped on, but I really dont see what you dislike about that sentence, appart from the bad grammer that is <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> (ok so maybe it a bit to the point as well)
Anyway I'm happy to discuss it but I still disagree.
Sieges back then lasted for days/weeks/months at a time, during which you had to feed your entire army, and at the same time you keept them from farming their land, making food an ever more expensive comodity, bottom line the cost of siege was immense. An average siege base will cost about 100 - 150 res, complete with obs and armory, which is certainly not cheap but still far from a fortune. While you may argue that I'm still besieging the hive, it will never last more than a few minutes (I doubt that constitutes long delays), during which you costs will be a few medpacks which i would have to let go anyway, and the res from kills will like more than compensate me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
100-150 res as you said isnt' cheap, but even at the rate of "only a few minutes" that is not a cheap amount of time. A fast-paced game of ns lasts maybe 20 minutes, so if you consider a 3-5 minute siege expedition is 1/4 of your "war" (so to speak), then that is considerable time in which many things can happen.
Not to mention that if it fails then you are really screwed usually.
Siege is a gamble except in the latest stages of the endgame, so I don't consider it a failsafe strategy at all.
Rapid raids and assaults I have always seen prove to be more effective than besieiging tactics in the early to midgame. However, reaching your late midgame to endgame, it can sometimes be necessary in order to penetrate defenses that have been built up over time.
This is not how you start a pleasant response to a fellow poster.
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Huh, sorry if you feel stepped on, but I really dont see what you dislike about that sentence, appart from the bad grammer that is <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->? (ok so maybe it a bit to the point as well)
Anyway I'm happy to discuss it but I still disagree.
Sieges back then lasted for days/weeks/months at a time, during which you had to feed your entire army, and at the same time you keept them from farming their land, making food an ever more expensive comodity, bottom line the cost of siege was immense. An average siege base will cost about 100 - 150 res, complete with obs and armory, which is certainly not cheap but still far from a fortune. While you may argue that I'm still besieging the hive, it will never last more than a few minutes (I doubt that constitutes long delays), during which you costs will be a few medpacks which i would have to let go anyway, and the res from kills will like more than compensate me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
100-150 res as you said isnt' cheap, but even at the rate of "only a few minutes" that is not a cheap amount of time. A fast-paced game of ns lasts maybe 20 minutes, so if you consider a 3-5 minute siege expedition is 1/4 of your "war" (so to speak), then that is considerable time in which many things can happen.
Not to mention that if it fails then you are really screwed usually.
Siege is a gamble except in the latest stages of the endgame, so I don't consider it a failsafe strategy at all.
Rapid raids and assaults I have always seen prove to be more effective than besieiging tactics in the early to midgame. However, reaching your late midgame to endgame, it can sometimes be necessary in order to penetrate defenses that have been built up over time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whack even a single onos and that base has been paid.
In the example I used earlier i lost a HA train worth at least 300 res (without MP spam) I consider 150 cheap in comparison, since I get to keep the base.
EDIT : (While this was lategame, I could have gotten HA earlier by skipping upgrading, but this strategy i would consider way riskier)
A forward base near a hive has more uses than "just" denying the aliens of a hive. And IF they have som many gorges healing the hive that it will take 3 minutes to kill it, get another siege gun, you can always recycle it later.
There are situations where I find attacking head on usefull, but generally i dislike striking from a weak position (something sun also has a few phrases about)
Well if you prefer the obvious, then I am telling you not to attempt to lecture me on what a siege was in Sun Tzu's day. I found it in poor taste. Let us assume we're both intelligent individuals who differ on our interpretation of what a siege is, shall we?
First, the parallels-
"Sieges back then lasted for days/weeks/months at a time"
Sieges TODAY last for days/weeks/months at a time. Sieges in NS can take up a valuable chunk of game time.... as pointed out by another, if you spend 5 mins of a 20 minute game in siege, then thats a significant piece of time.
"during which you had to feed your entire army, and at the same time you keept them from farming their land, making food an ever more expensive comodity, bottom line the cost of siege was immense."
NS Siege - during which you have to medspam or PG your men back and forth, welding up your turrets and TF through each successive alien wave, and at the same time keeping your men from capping RTs, holding choke points, etc - making YOUR res an ever more expensive commodity to funnel into a siege. Bottom line, the rest cost of siege IS immense.
Cost-
"An average siege base will cost about 100 - 150 res, complete with obs and armory, which is certainly not cheap but still far from a fortune."
150 res in one big spot, not including the welders and medspam you'll end up passing around, and not counting replacements for lost TF or turrets themselves. Now, lets put that cost aside. While you are at that base, what is happening elsewhere? On an 8 man alien team, 4-5 aliens can spam rush you, then when they have res, run off and cap a node on their own. Your boys need to weld the siege, or rush from the siege to the hive. The aliens rotate shifts and keep spam rushing. You eventually have to put more res into your siege just to allow your marines to leave it in safety.... or you recycle it all, and the aliens put their hive back up.
End result, you spend a stackload of res, for a moderate RFK gain and temporary holding of a hive, while elsewhere you are losing rapidly. And thats from ONE siege, let alone two simultaneous ones.
"While you may argue that I'm still besieging the hive, it will never last more than a few minutes (I doubt that constitutes long delays), during which you costs will be a few medpacks which i would have to let go anyway, and the res from kills will like more than compensate me."
For res spent, but NS isn't about res profit. If you make 30 res profit from the base, but lose all your rts on the map, are you better or worse off? Second, a few minutes CAN be a long delay in NS. And then why exactly does it only last a few minutes? Do you give up? Buy tons of turrets so you can go elsewhere? Relocate? For my part I've never seen a siege stand unscathed after a few mins. The marines end up going to another hive (leaving the siege open) or recycle as much as they can. Or sometimes even have their base counterrushed.
"The cost for the aliens is usually also more than just the hive, it will usually be an rt, some OC/DC/SC/MC or whatever (easily worth the same as the siege base itself), but most importantly time... Hives dont exactly build themselves fast."
While you are at ONE hive, the other is up or going up. When you take down a hive, they lose an ability, not much else. Most intelligent gorges (and gorges tend to be intelligent) have dropped 3 of each chamber at each hive. They'll still have their chambers, and still at max, and all you've down is blow down a 35 res hive with a 150 point base. Which will be the centre of most of the aliens (and your) attention. Unless you intend to abandon 150 res of a base and let them put their hive back up.
"After a siege has ended i usually have a firm grip on a new rt or two, an new outpost from which i can viciously lash out at the surrounding alien rt's (added mobility)."
At a hive? You'll be lucky not to be walled in by OC, forcing you to build yet more sieges. Or spend a ton of res reequipping while trying to hold the now besieged sieges.
"A good siege base can, in itself, tie up many more ressources than is costs to construct over time (good marines wont simply let a single gorge bile their expansions to hell)."
While the siege exists it ties up your marines and your res. While you may gain marginal res profit, aliens are moving tactically to other areas while a few skulks rush you to keep you busy at siege.
"I usually have all my weapons and armor upgrades done before the game ends, win or loose."
Most comms do. I don't recall mentioning weapon upgrades in regard to sieges, so its a pretty tangential thing to say. What does it have to do with sieges again?
Not reading the whole post -
ZERG - Do me the courtesy of reading my post. I was aliens, the marines had a very well lamed up siege outside our hive, which was NOT in its infancy. The marines were defeated by our possession of three DCs and soon to follow MCs despite only one hive (lose one, keep the chambers, gain another).
"If the marine team couldn't hold the huge open space there, even with turrets in place, they probably deserved to loose anyway. "
Actually they were fairly competent and their only mistake was to build a siege and think it was a game winning assault strategy. Its neither assault nor game winning, and they spent most of their time trying to defend their cash cow investment. A similar game happened tonight on Lunixmonster, involving Hera and a processing siege. Marines keep welding constantly, marine base goes down, despite a one hive lockdown.
Sieging KILLS marine teams, they cant afford to sit about in one position for any length of time. Sieging up a forward base commits you to that base, and protecting it, and as you're aware alien players are insanely protective of their hives. If/when the hive goes down, they'll keep rushing that base. Even if you nail an Onos, that still leaves the rest of the team all over the map while most of yours are welding and trying to kill the lone onos.
Yes, Sun Tzu spoke a lot on weakness.
"Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant."
This kills more alien teams than you'd think.
The quote that I think best applies to NS marine strategy is
"Appear at points which the enemy must hasten to defend;
march swiftly to places where you are not expected."
Setting up a siege means they can counter siege. They can rush your siege. In some cases they rush your base, leaving you with the hard choice of the hive, or your base.
Do not misunderstand - sieges are a powerful weapon, but moreso when used for defence of strong positions. A siege push at hive means taking a corridor outside or nearby - not a well defended room. It also means rebuilding the siege IN the hive if you intend to keep it (costs time and res to build while fending off aliens). At endgame, it gives the aliens a nice starter before the base main course.
You could make it work offensively but only in the same sense that a hammer can be used to beat a screw in, IMHO.
If it was just a 35 res hive I don't believe a siege would've been necessary in the first place. And now you assume the aliens will automatically take back their hive as soon as you leave it. Yes, that makes perfect sense because you know the commander doesn't care to send troops to a base under attack. Don't give me crap that if the comm sends troops there the aliens will attack elsewhere. The aliens can't be everywhere.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ZERG - Do me the courtesy of reading my post. I was aliens, the marines had a very well lamed up siege outside our hive, which was NOT in its infancy. The marines were defeated by our possession of three DCs and soon to follow MCs despite only one hive (lose one, keep the chambers, gain another).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think it matters WHO got there **** handed to them. My point still stands.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Setting up a siege means they can counter siege. They can rush your siege. In some cases they rush your base, leaving you with the hard choice of the hive, or your base.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you do that same by splitting or moving your forces as necessary.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do not misunderstand - sieges are a powerful weapon, but moreso when used for defence of strong positions. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now I know your ARE crazy. In all of NS, sieges have been used offensively in fact the reason why they have been nerfed so many times.