I generally like the improvements, Although I havent had the proper time to spend with the game. I feel that the Offensive Chmabers fire too slowly, but that could have just been poor placement on my part.
the one thing that I DID notice however is that they DID NOT FIX THE HOLOROOM RT bug....... BOOooOoOoO
<!--QuoteBegin--Duhflyinlerk+Aug 1 2003, 06:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Duhflyinlerk @ Aug 1 2003, 06:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> IMO the aliens are WAY overpowered. The new upgrades low level aliens have is crazy. More armor and hp. The sensory things, marine walk right into invis OC and die. They all share the same res, so the whole team can go gorge, pop a res tower and reskulk, and have nearly all the RT's befer the marines can even get one. Dont get me wrong, when im an alien I love it, because in 1.4 EVERYONE always stacked the marine team and would never touch alien side. Now its fun to watch all those marine's get eaten by the Ono's. Id just like to see the teams a little more balanced, although that probably wont happen. And, the skulk camera view thingy, when they go all upside down and crap, oy...I always miss them because i never know where they are going and they flip and turn and bleh..i didint like that either hehe. Other then that 2.0 is great. Good sound, nice upgrades. Just my 2 cents. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So far Marines have yet to work out that the crouch/hitbox bugs will not be saving them in this build ^-^. It's also a case of the comms finding out which strategies work.
<i>i think i'll make my opinion after i play it some more...</i> hehehe <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
a few things i was dissapointed about - ns_veil : i haven't had enough time to see if it plays well but aesthetically i find it dissapointing. Every hive looks like a poor-man's maintenence. Theres just generally not enough visual variation (it feels more like an arena to me). Although it is very clean looking and the brush work is nice. I do also love the lighting (that goes for eclipse 2.0 also).
ns_mineshaft - incredibly impressive level. Just one gripe. It can be very hard to command on ns_mineshaft because of the amount of detail (especially the overhead detail).
sensory chambers - the chambers themselves i have noticed are too powerful. I see people saying 'well we have sensory chambers so we might as well put them all over the map. I also think theres a bit of an overlap in the sensory upgrades. Pheromones or scent of fear anyone?
defence chambers - people have been saying that they are now pointless (i've seen on numerous counts gorges being shouted at for putting dcs first) I'm not sure if they are underpowered now (surely compared to the sens chambers) Give me your thoughts.
3 hive aliens aren't THAT much more powerful than hive 1 aliens due to the lack of hive restrictions from 1.04. They can be overpowered by a large HA train quite easily due to the onos and fades being significantly less powerful. I think there is not enough dependanace on getting hives up. (that is reflected in the cost of a hive - 35 res :o ) I think this has removed an element of strategy from ns (although i can't judge untill the game has really had a chance to prove itself - a few weeks maybe)
Finally - Flayra said he wanted the games to be shorter and more intense. Well they are occasionally more intense but ive noticed games generally last longer in 2.0 than in 1.04.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
I personally have only one major problem with 2.0: The marine walking speed is soooooo slow it is absolutly useless. I mean, why have it there anyway? The crouch-walk is faster, and it's still silent.
I love the new crosshairs, especialy the GL one, because it is actually useful and not just for show like i thought it would be. The HA footsteps just add a nice bit of robot-ness to the HA, and the way they are immune to spores just makes them seem as powerful as they should be (although i've already been accused of hacking when a lerk tried to spore me to death.... sigh). The skulks take a lot of getting used to from the marine side, they look like they're having a fit even when they're on the floor, and that death animation where they roll over makes me sad <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> . The onos seems a bit weak, i mean, i've seen ONE HA take down an onos, maybe it was a n00b but who knows...
All in all, we need to play a bit more. I've seen aliens dominate a map, the marines had one res point all the way through. But then again, i've seen the marines do the same. People just need to start formulating strategies, and a lot of people need to start reading the forums because i've seen people screaming "OMG H@X THEY'VE GOT ONOS ON ONE HIVE!1!11""@ F4!!"212" < annoying.
2.0 definatley looks and feels more dark and spooky, although the cliched "everywhere there is someone looking to kill you the lights go out" is rampant through the maps. Though I would like to thank the designer of eclipse and veil for actually having some bright, well lit rooms.
The biggest problem is that marines have only one strategy: Rush out weapons 1 upgrade. Select 3/4 of team as squad one. While resnodes < 4 ---Send bloated squad one to resnode. ---Build TF and a few turrets. ---Build and electrify resnode/TF. Suicide squad 1 into enemy hive as 'tax collection' on aliens (nets some nice res). Defend base with 2 hmgs while you tech up to heavy armor. Outfit 2/3 of team with HA/HMG/Welder at the low low cost of 45 res. Own hives.
If you want any hope of stopping an HA train, you'll need at least hive 2 to do it, preferably 3. Stomp does a pretty good job, and xenocide and web are also good for it. I think the hives are still very important.
I honestly don't think that scs are overpowered; I played a game today where liberal use of observatories basically left us naked to the HMGs. It's definately going to take some time to adapt, though.
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--QuoteBegin--Edgecrusher+Aug 1 2003, 04:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Edgecrusher @ Aug 1 2003, 04:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you only need one obs for the whole map i thought ( you mean for motion tracking right?) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ah, but sensory chambers block motion tracking. (:
However, a nearby observatory will defeat cloaking.
confusing... but i'll take your word for it <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> . Any thoughts on what i said about veil btw?
I love: + The new sounds especially for the marine weapons + New maps and changes to maps + The new hud and commander addtions + The new crosshairs + New abilities, particularly devour and stomp + Graphic improvements and overall smoothness of the game
I dislike: - Not being able to parasite or spit at switches anymore - That the cloaking upgrade makes a sound when you are already cloaked by a sensory chamber - The fluorecent blood - Pheromones
I'll probably come up with other things but overall its a very positive review. The game has a much better flow and seems a lot closer to a "finished" game. Some things might need tweaking in the future but only playing the game will tell us. Hopefully we'll see the VAC support soon and Flay will be able to take his well deserved break!
Great new game. Too early to say for sure, but the balance seems to be OK (meaning the side which makes the fewer gross mistakes tends to win - hey we're all new to it). Getting resources early is critical now, marines have to be aggressive from the start. It's no longer about controlling the hives, it's about controlling the whole map. And protect those gorges, it takes a while to get 25 res (gorge + RT, 10 extra for a sensory nearby).
New trends: 1.04: tf at start: comm is n00b. 2.0: no tf at start: comm is n00b.
1.04: OMG n00b gorge! We already have one! 2.0: OMG only one gorge, I want to see 5 gorges FAST!
The new maps: In 1.04 Nancy (we'll miss it) was considered quite complex. The new maps are completely over the top. Multilevel crazyness, I don't know how the comm survives it. The new fullscreen map helps, but I still get lost due to height differences. They do look nice though. Also, despite the complexity, there are chokepoints that allow the marines to seal off half the map with a relatively low number of turrets. Rotateable 3D versions of the maps would be a nice addition for 3.0. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ns_lost couldn't have gotten a better name either... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sensory seems to be the preferred hive 1 chamber for now, because it allows the builders better survival chances. And putting a sneaky sensory in a vent near the marine base early in the game can be pretty funny too. Defence first seems to be a bad idea (lost most of the games where we got def first, though it could be a coincidence).
Personal favourite: aliens, there's more room for creative abuse of the marines (sensory again <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ). Redemption Onos isn't invulnerable as some claim, I personally succeeded in getting killed as one (applause!). On the marine side, I'm getting more thrust from the new jetpack than from the old one, and my build speed increased too (I'm a low fps player).
Bad point: the manual. That's a NS 1.00 manual where the manual link points, no good at all. I'm hoping to get the full weapons and upgrade specs for 2.0 soon.
<!--QuoteBegin--Poofat+Aug 1 2003, 08:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Poofat @ Aug 1 2003, 08:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The biggest problem is that marines have only one strategy: <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> NS is exactely out for a day by now. Do you <i>really</i> think you have already found all the buffs in the marine strategies?
You could just as well do a strategy of broad resource denial by capping and electrifying resnodes as fast as possible.
Ya, that reminds me. The manual needs work, bad. It has no scrollbar, things bigger than a page are lost and out of reach (unless we look at the source...)
Allrightie, feedback time. Or rather, pose question in hope you can answer time. There has been said a lot already about all the really good improvements in NS 2.0. Just one word: wow. But...
I just played my first game of NS 2.0 on ns_caged. It lasted 4 hours. Yes, you read that right, 4 hours. I actually jumped in as marine after the first hour of so. Marines were doing badly. No teamwork, people rambo-ing around. Kharaa had three hives. Marines were finally locked inside their start. We were down to one resource tower. The team changed a bit, people leaving and new people coming, so the teamwork now wasn't as bad as it was before. The really strange thing however is that the Kharaa team couldn't win. They just couldn't get through our base. Our comm got HA's, HMG's, GL's, upgrades, MT and all that with just one resource tower. Finally we broke out and got back a resource tower. We lost it again, because we had to defend base. This was right at 4 hours. Then the aliens gave up.. people left, which is easy to understand because for them it had been a boring time. Marines won. So how can this be? Why can't a team of 7 resource nozzles, three hives aliens kill the leftover marines? The team wasn't working together really well, but still, these were no beginners or anything. They tried coordinating attacks, different lifeforms etc. Nothing worked. So is this supposed to be this way? Did we miss some crucial NS2.0 experience?Cause they deserved to win but didn't....
We don't get it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Well, right now, they <i>are</i> beginners. It's arguably harder for aliens to clear a turtling marine team out than vice-versa, but if the right combination of abilities (Lerks umbraing bilebombing Gorges defended by acid-rocketing Fades, for example), it's more than possible.
<!--QuoteBegin--Hellbilly+Aug 1 2003, 06:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hellbilly @ Aug 1 2003, 06:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I love it.
One problem, my FPS has dropped from 99 to 50 <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ive got that problem too. But it's only in some situations. Wonder what has changed?
KenichiThis is not a pie.Join Date: 2002-11-01Member: 2941Members, NS1 Playtester
edited August 2003
did you try turning off dynamic lights? it was mentioned in the webbed FAQ <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=40042' target='_blank'>here</a>and any other ns graphic options, 32bit mode as well?
<span style='color:white'>Note that dynamic light can currently not be switched off due to an unfortunate bug we found thanks to the help of communitymember Mart (stop dancing).</span>
ive only had 1 problem .... the map <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->? which i have forgotten....... the old vent hive is called archiving and i am unable to build the hive at all and i have tried heaps with other people..... otherwise it bloody pwns gw flayra
<!--QuoteBegin--Edgecrusher+Aug 1 2003, 04:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Edgecrusher @ Aug 1 2003, 04:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> oooh another thing. umbra is kinda pathetic now <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> actually umbra is the same just now you can shoot it and shoot more often.
<!--QuoteBegin--carnage.hs+Aug 1 2003, 04:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carnage.hs @ Aug 1 2003, 04:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ive only had 1 problem .... the map <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->? which i have forgotten....... the old vent hive is called archiving and i am unable to build the hive at all and i have tried heaps with other people..... otherwise it bloody pwns gw flayra <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> another hive was probably going up, you can only build 1 at a time.
I absolutely[U][B]LOVE it! It is soo awsome! The only thing I found alittle dissappointing is that the First Person View when skulk, dont align with the wall like in AvP *sigh* But other than that, WAY 2 GO NS TEAM!
Oh and all you servers out there, turn mp_uplink to 1! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
the one thing that I DID notice however is that they DID NOT FIX THE HOLOROOM RT bug....... BOOooOoOoO
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
anyway I cant bash it too much I've only put in 20 min last night. Look forward to playing it further
So far Marines have yet to work out that the crouch/hitbox bugs will not be saving them in this build ^-^.
It's also a case of the comms finding out which strategies work.
ns_mineshaft - incredibly impressive level. Just one gripe. It can be very hard to command on ns_mineshaft because of the amount of detail (especially the overhead detail).
sensory chambers - the chambers themselves i have noticed are too powerful. I see people saying 'well we have sensory chambers so we might as well put them all over the map. I also think theres a bit of an overlap in the sensory upgrades. Pheromones or scent of fear anyone?
defence chambers - people have been saying that they are now pointless (i've seen on numerous counts gorges being shouted at for putting dcs first) I'm not sure if they are underpowered now (surely compared to the sens chambers) Give me your thoughts.
3 hive aliens aren't THAT much more powerful than hive 1 aliens due to the lack of hive restrictions from 1.04. They can be overpowered by a large HA train quite easily due to the onos and fades being significantly less powerful. I think there is not enough dependanace on getting hives up. (that is reflected in the cost of a hive - 35 res :o ) I think this has removed an element of strategy from ns (although i can't judge untill the game has really had a chance to prove itself - a few weeks maybe)
Finally - Flayra said he wanted the games to be shorter and more intense. Well they are occasionally more intense but ive noticed games generally last longer in 2.0 than in 1.04.
I love the new crosshairs, especialy the GL one, because it is actually useful and not just for show like i thought it would be. The HA footsteps just add a nice bit of robot-ness to the HA, and the way they are immune to spores just makes them seem as powerful as they should be (although i've already been accused of hacking when a lerk tried to spore me to death.... sigh). The skulks take a lot of getting used to from the marine side, they look like they're having a fit even when they're on the floor, and that death animation where they roll over makes me sad <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> . The onos seems a bit weak, i mean, i've seen ONE HA take down an onos, maybe it was a n00b but who knows...
All in all, we need to play a bit more. I've seen aliens dominate a map, the marines had one res point all the way through. But then again, i've seen the marines do the same. People just need to start formulating strategies, and a lot of people need to start reading the forums because i've seen people screaming "OMG H@X THEY'VE GOT ONOS ON ONE HIVE!1!11""@ F4!!"212" < annoying.
Good man. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The biggest problem is that marines have only one strategy:
Rush out weapons 1 upgrade.
Select 3/4 of team as squad one.
While resnodes < 4
---Send bloated squad one to resnode.
---Build TF and a few turrets.
---Build and electrify resnode/TF.
Suicide squad 1 into enemy hive as 'tax collection' on aliens (nets some nice res).
Defend base with 2 hmgs while you tech up to heavy armor.
Outfit 2/3 of team with HA/HMG/Welder at the low low cost of 45 res.
Own hives.
I honestly don't think that scs are overpowered; I played a game today where liberal use of observatories basically left us naked to the HMGs. It's definately going to take some time to adapt, though.
Ah, but sensory chambers block motion tracking. (:
However, a nearby observatory will defeat cloaking.
+ The new sounds especially for the marine weapons
+ New maps and changes to maps
+ The new hud and commander addtions
+ The new crosshairs
+ New abilities, particularly devour and stomp
+ Graphic improvements and overall smoothness of the game
I dislike:
- Not being able to parasite or spit at switches anymore
- That the cloaking upgrade makes a sound when you are already cloaked by a sensory chamber
- The fluorecent blood
- Pheromones
I'll probably come up with other things but overall its a very positive review. The game has a much better flow and seems a lot closer to a "finished" game. Some things might need tweaking in the future but only playing the game will tell us. Hopefully we'll see the VAC support soon and Flay will be able to take his well deserved break!
Good job NSTeam!
-RuBb3r*dUcKy
New trends:
1.04: tf at start: comm is n00b.
2.0: no tf at start: comm is n00b.
1.04: OMG n00b gorge! We already have one!
2.0: OMG only one gorge, I want to see 5 gorges FAST!
The new maps: In 1.04 Nancy (we'll miss it) was considered quite complex. The new maps are completely over the top. Multilevel crazyness, I don't know how the comm survives it. The new fullscreen map helps, but I still get lost due to height differences. They do look nice though. Also, despite the complexity, there are chokepoints that allow the marines to seal off half the map with a relatively low number of turrets.
Rotateable 3D versions of the maps would be a nice addition for 3.0. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ns_lost couldn't have gotten a better name either... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sensory seems to be the preferred hive 1 chamber for now, because it allows the builders better survival chances. And putting a sneaky sensory in a vent near the marine base early in the game can be pretty funny too. Defence first seems to be a bad idea (lost most of the games where we got def first, though it could be a coincidence).
Personal favourite: aliens, there's more room for creative abuse of the marines (sensory again <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ). Redemption Onos isn't invulnerable as some claim, I personally succeeded in getting killed as one (applause!). On the marine side, I'm getting more thrust from the new jetpack than from the old one, and my build speed increased too (I'm a low fps player).
Bad point: the manual. That's a NS 1.00 manual where the manual link points, no good at all. I'm hoping to get the full weapons and upgrade specs for 2.0 soon.
Great job, NS team!
NS is exactely out for a day by now. Do you <i>really</i> think you have already found all the buffs in the marine strategies?
You could just as well do a strategy of broad resource denial by capping and electrifying resnodes as fast as possible.
I havent even seen any new maps yet. All my favorite servers are full, and I've only played about four times now.
But...
I just played my first game of NS 2.0 on ns_caged. It lasted 4 hours. Yes, you read that right, 4 hours. I actually jumped in as marine after the first hour of so. Marines were doing badly. No teamwork, people rambo-ing around. Kharaa had three hives. Marines were finally locked inside their start. We were down to one resource tower. The team changed a bit, people leaving and new people coming, so the teamwork now wasn't as bad as it was before.
The really strange thing however is that the Kharaa team couldn't win. They just couldn't get through our base. Our comm got HA's, HMG's, GL's, upgrades, MT and all that with just one resource tower. Finally we broke out and got back a resource tower. We lost it again, because we had to defend base. This was right at 4 hours. Then the aliens gave up.. people left, which is easy to understand because for them it had been a boring time. Marines won.
So how can this be? Why can't a team of 7 resource nozzles, three hives aliens kill the leftover marines? The team wasn't working together really well, but still, these were no beginners or anything. They tried coordinating attacks, different lifeforms etc. Nothing worked.
So is this supposed to be this way? Did we miss some crucial NS2.0 experience?Cause they deserved to win but didn't....
We don't get it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
One problem, my FPS has dropped from 99 to 50 <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ive got that problem too. But it's only in some situations. Wonder what has changed?
<span style='color:white'>Note that dynamic light can currently not be switched off due to an unfortunate bug we found thanks to the help of communitymember Mart (stop dancing).</span>
actually umbra is the same just now you can shoot it and shoot more often.
another hive was probably going up, you can only build 1 at a time.
Oh and all you servers out there, turn mp_uplink to 1! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->