Yes, but there's no point in getting redemption for a *skulk* <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
SinSpawnHarbinger of SufferingJoin Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8359Members
I would understand redempt for other lifeforms to save you from losing the res you spent evolving, but redemption on skulk...thats bad, as suicidal skulk w/ no upgrade = no upgrade no loss in team res
With higher health for skulks in 2.0 redemption might actually work some of the time. Also, with rfk, it will be worth it to prevent the marines from getting the extra res from you dying. In 1.04, redemption hardly ever works on skulks, and their death usually doesn't matter (except for a long spawn queue). The only time I would take redemption in 1.04 is with a fade, if a hive will go down soon OR if res is coming very slowly. I might also use it on a gorge at the beginning, where dying will significantly hurt your team.
I've been in plenty of games in which the aliens lost their 2nd hive but they still had a fade with redemption around, and I can easily say that such a fade is of very little use. It only takes a little more damage than it takes to kill a carapaced skulk to make him teleport back to the hive. Sure, if redemption never fails and the game lasts, he'll get a very good score. But besides blowing up mines, annoying marines by pelting at their structures and killing the occasional LA marine, he will have little to no impact on the game. In fact, if it weren't for the sole purpose of making mines obsolete, I would say he'd be more useful to his team if he killed himself and played as either a skulk with carapace/celerity or a lerk with carapace/adrenaline.
There are only 2 times I would consider getting redemption:
1) On the first gorge if the marines are particularly aggressive and/or the current situation of the game somehow forces the gorge to work fairly away from the hive without sufficient skulk cover.
2) On a onos if the 3rd hive is clearly going down with no hope of getting it back up in the forseeable future, and only if the server has the /stuck plugin. Otherwise I'd pick carapace anyway and take my chances.
Basically, I think that regen is good for when you are on a defensive position, like guarding a hive with no DC, or a OC farm near the marines base. So I'd say mostly for gorges.
Carapace I use when i'm attacking a marne base, or when scouting around the place to parasite wondering marines.
in the few past weeks that i first posted this, ive used carapace alot more often now, about 50/50 with regen. but with 2.0 coming up, will any of you change what you use, especially considering the skulks higher health.
Well, I'm gonna try regen for sure, at least a few games. Then cara a few games. Whichever gives me overall better results will be the one I'll use most of the time.
Carapace has my vote. I always use this as a Skulk and it hasn't disappointed. Why are you going back to heal after you trash a marine base? A Skulk is simply to buy the Kharaa Gorges some time for the Gorge to build the second hive, after which the fades will come into action. I'm much more familiar with the Kharaa than Marines and I don't go back to the hive or any healing station to heal when I'm at 50-70 health. I just rush those freakin' rines to death, and most of the time I succeed in killing about 2-3 rines. With Regeneration, I run and before I can even kill the enemy (even using waill-climbing and circle strafing), I get pwnz0red by the marine. With Cara, using circle strafing and wall climbing will definitely bring you 2 kills, guaranteed. Also, Cara is good for that extra push to the death of the enemy, while regen will get you pwned by the marine after healing you once. Regen is more useful for the 'Strong' creatures like Fades and Onos as they heal a large chunk each time, but seriously - it's not recommended for a skulk.
What the question this topic about boils down to, is, do you like to rushy rushy all the time, or do you like to use a little strategy, and stay far from the hive while doing this.
Carapace is good for lerks as it makes them near invincible to those low lvl marines, however i have seen very successfull regen skulks, i watched in awe as they took out a turret farm getting hit less than they regenerated.
So the answer is Style of play.
Of course we will use a different upgrade in 2.0, as DC isnt the most viable first chamber anymore
I found regen fades to be pretty fragile , too weak to fight more than 2 la marines simultaneously. They don't want to take the risk to finish a marine with swipe when they are low on health and are vulnerable when regenerating. Regen adren fades can kill many marines from a safe distance , but can't stop HA trains. I tend to use cara adren , a risky option but more effective at breaking marine defenses (throw a few rockets , rush in , finish the remaining marines with claws and start destroying structures , blink out when marine reinforcement arrives , find DCs , come back for more destruction) and it is the generic upgrade for most species (hive 2 skulk , hive 2 battle gorge , lerk) but cara celerity is horribly effective in the hands of a skilled fade. Mass clawing of marines , including HAs (easier to circle strafe them and to run away)
@Stoney: Just wanted to say that I always get regen as a skulk, and we all know how crappy I am at that <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> -> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's very useful against killing rambos far from your hive. If you don't have offensive healing stations, regen can save you vital time (and is very good for recon skulks). You say that it takes a long time to heal from 1 hp to full, but from experience most marines only take me down to about 48/12 or 54/13 before I kill them. You only need to survive two or three rambos to achieve the same effect as healing from 1 hp, and also it keeps you in the field, harrying marine expansion, and giving vital intelligence on enemy troop movement. Imagine, say, that you take out a marine defending a just-built resource tower, and that backup is on its way. With cara, you are injured and will most certainly die without help and be unsuccessful in killing the rt. With regen, chances are that you will have healed fully (lvl 3 regen gives you 6.5 or so health a tick) by the time reinforcements arrive, and you should be able to kill the marine with ease, and finish the rt. Don't say this is an isolated incident, it happens all the time.
I'd have to say that i am definantly a spastic flyer and it normally takes double the time to get from where i am back to the hive as it would if i were a skulk.... Thus i choose regen... Probably the reason why i always die and then the reason why i don't lerk... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--QuoteBegin--BOBDOLOL+Nov 19 2003, 08:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BOBDOLOL @ Nov 19 2003, 08:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The chart doesn't lie<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Perhaps it does. A carapaced Skulk can sustain 155 damage before dying.
The method I used to determine that has so far proven 100% accurate in predicting the how much damage a player class can sustain, in 2.0x. Not that I've actually done all that much testing; feel free to test it.
It is:
If a/(p/2) > h/(1-p), then e = h/(1-p), else e = h+2a
Where <b>a</b> is the player's current armor. <b>h</b> is the player's current health. <b>p</b> is the player's armor absorption percentage, expressed as a decimal. This is dependant on armor level, and is .3 at level 0, .4 at level 1, .5 at level 2, .6 at level 3, and .95 for heavy armor. <b>e</b> is how much damage the player can sustain (I call this the player's effective health, hence e).
Has anyone noted that a well-placed sensory chamber can really ruin a marine base fairly easily? Invisible skulk rushes are pretty nasty if timed correctly.
in the beginning of the game against vanilla marines (as in level 0 armor and weapons and lmg), cara is the way to go, ESPECIALLY if you are a skulk.
in late/end game with level 3 hmg, neither makes much of a difference as a SKULK. regen will NOT work fast enuff to save your hide (it might extend your life by half a second) and cara will give u an extra bullet (AT MOST 2) of life at level 3 hmg ... and i'm sure you all know, ONE bullet is hardly an advantage as a skulk. End game skulks usually just xeno and i never bother wasting two res to get cara before i xeno (since end game usually means HA/HMG/3/3 and it is VERY unlikely that a single skulk can kill a super HA by himself). (since i'll die either way).
Fades and oni are awesome with regen and should always get regen (rarely, if ever cara). if your a hive defense onos, and ur hive has lots of DC's, then cara is the way to go. If you are an offense onos, get regen obviously. Fade's suck with cara (but they only give u an extra 25 armor as fade). if you want to heal as fast as possible, get regen, blink to a hard-to-reach place and metabolize. Again, the extra 25 armor is only 2-3 bullets of extra life as a fade and you don't get healed as you blink around and get shot at. fades used to get 50 extra armor with cara and oni get 200 (!) extra armor with cara in 1.04.
regen lerks are awesome (spore and hide ... repeat ad nauseum) and you should never get cara ... because lerks are not frontal assault units.
Gorges are good with cara if you have celerity (so if a marine is shootin at you, you escape ASAP to a healing station (a few dc's and a few oc's in a hallway or something) but i usually do redemption if i plan on staying gorge for quite some time.
oh and whoever said a skulk can take 155 points of damage OBVIOUSLY cannot add.
a skulk has a base health of 75 hp. at level 3 cara, skulk has 30 armor (either 25 or 30 armor ... can't seem to recall which)
that is 105 points of damage, NOT 155 105 points of damage = 11 lmg bullets to kill 105 points of damage = 6 hmg bullets to kill 105 points of damage = 1 shotty blast to kill (at close range) 105 points of damage = 6 pistol bullets to kill
under any circumstances, do NOT blindly rush the marines if they know where you are unless 1) they have no ammo 2) they have HORRIBLE aim.
even with level 3 cara, 11 bullets is not that much ... cara is only meant to make a difference in close range battle ... in long range hallway rushes, level 3 cara skulks SHOULD always get owned by vanilla 0/0 marines ... in close quarters chomping action, level 3 cara skulks SHOULD always own even level 1 armor marines. (11 bullets is a LOT of bullets worth of damage in close quaters fighting but in long halls, its nothing)
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
edited November 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--hyperionjjliu+Nov 20 2003, 01:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (hyperionjjliu @ Nov 20 2003, 01:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->oh and whoever said a skulk can take 155 points of damage OBVIOUSLY cannot add.
a skulk has a base health of 75 hp. at level 3 cara, skulk has 30 armor (either 25 or 30 armor ... can't seem to recall which)
that is 105 points of damage, NOT 155 105 points of damage = 11 lmg bullets to kill 105 points of damage = 6 hmg bullets to kill 105 points of damage = 1 shotty blast to kill (at close range) 105 points of damage = 6 pistol bullets to kill<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You obviously do not know how the armor system works. Not surprisingly, though; it is fairly complicated and is not well known. So I will explain it.
When a player receives damage, a certain percent of the damage goes to armor. Before being deducted from the player's armor, half of that damage is negated. The rest of the damage (the damage that did not go to armor) is deducted from the player's health. The percent of the damage that goes to armor is dependant on armor/carapace level, and is 30% at level 0, 40% at level 1, 50% at level 2, 60% at level 3, and 95% for heavy armor.
Level 3 cara (in 2.01) skulk has 40 armor. Level 3 cara absorbs 60% of the damage an alien takes, in addition to only decreasing by half the damage it absorbs. This means that the 40 armor of a skulk will soak up 133.3 damage before it craps out. This means that the skulk has taken an effective 13.33 * 4 = 53.33.. damage Effectively, that means the skulk still has 21.66.. hp. Therefore, a L3 cara skulk has an effective hp of 133.3.. + 21.6.. = 155 hp.
<!--QuoteBegin--hyperionjjliu+Nov 20 2003, 12:27 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (hyperionjjliu @ Nov 20 2003, 12:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> moral of the previous post ...
under any circumstances, do NOT blindly rush the marines if they know where you are unless 1) they have no ammo 2) they have HORRIBLE aim.
even with level 3 cara, 11 bullets is not that much ... cara is only meant to make a difference in close range battle ... in long range hallway rushes, level 3 cara skulks SHOULD always get owned by vanilla 0/0 marines ... in close quarters chomping action, level 3 cara skulks SHOULD always own even level 1 armor marines. (11 bullets is a LOT of bullets worth of damage in close quaters fighting but in long halls, its nothing) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Moral of the post: Don't post if you don't know or understand the subject.
If you ask me, then I say that the Onos benifits more from Carapace than Regen at times.
consider this: Marine team is holed up in some akward position. They all have HMG's decked out, and are sitting back.
If you get Regen, you will gain about 60 HP/tick. But if the average server has 16 people on it, then that is 8, angry machine gunners ripping your husk apart. Ouch!
Carapace gives you 250 armour, a great deal of difference when facing that turett farm with that pile of farmers nearby. I've done more damage with Carapace than with regen.
Regen also causes Ono's to become retarded, where they will slowly tiptoe toward the marine base, get hit by one **** bullet, adn run away. "OMG I LOST A NAIL TIME TO HEAL!!!11!". Then they yell at me cause I was behind them and thought that they would go attack like the damnwell should :mad:.
*Ahem* Sorry... But you see my point <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Seriously let this thing die and start a new thread... the beginning is Painfully old...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I, too, am wondering why this thread has been resurrected. The topic is valid, but the thread isn't. Start afresh, gentlemen.
IMO don't bother getting carapace with lifeforms who don't have much to start with. Skulks, if you can survive the battle, you don't have to go back to the hive for health, few extra bullets won't help TOO much, not as much as not having to go back to the hive will. Lerks, 25 extra armor makes no difference, unless your are planning to stay near the hive or 3 D chambers at ALL times. Gorges, I always go carapace with gorges, I rarely die as a gorge in a 1 on 1 fight with a marine when i have that extra 50 armor. Fades, can go both ways, because you might be close to D chambers or a hive anywhere on the map, but mostly regen is better because you should be taking out electric RTs or harrassing marines, both of which will probably not be near healing. Regen on a fade can pretty much negate most of the marines damage they cause. Carapace really helps an onos IMO, especially in the lvl 3 weapons situation. Level 3 HMGS will mutilate a regen onos, and god forbid you've gone redemption as an onos when they have level 3 weapons, you'll be useless unless you can surprise them and keep them stomped forever. Carapace is good IMO, because the onos can take more damage, and the gorges and skulks nearby will be happy when the stomp and chomp ensues against the heavy armor. Because lets face it, you will need teamwork against intelligent marines in a heavy train.
Comments
There are only 2 times I would consider getting redemption:
1) On the first gorge if the marines are particularly aggressive and/or the current situation of the game somehow forces the gorge to work fairly away from the hive without sufficient skulk cover.
2) On a onos if the 3rd hive is clearly going down with no hope of getting it back up in the forseeable future, and only if the server has the /stuck plugin. Otherwise I'd pick carapace anyway and take my chances.
Carapace I use when i'm attacking a marne base, or when scouting around the place to parasite wondering marines.
in the few past weeks that i first posted this, ive used carapace alot more often now, about 50/50 with regen. but with 2.0 coming up, will any of you change what you use, especially considering the skulks higher health.
-wooty
Carapace is good for lerks as it makes them near invincible to those low lvl marines, however i have seen very successfull regen skulks, i watched in awe as they took out a turret farm getting hit less than they regenerated.
So the answer is Style of play.
Of course we will use a different upgrade in 2.0, as DC isnt the most viable first chamber anymore
I tend to use cara adren , a risky option but more effective at breaking marine defenses (throw a few rockets , rush in , finish the remaining marines with claws and start destroying structures , blink out when marine reinforcement arrives , find DCs , come back for more destruction) and it is the generic upgrade for most species (hive 2 skulk , hive 2 battle gorge , lerk) but cara celerity is horribly effective in the hands of a skilled fade. Mass clawing of marines , including HAs (easier to circle strafe them and to run away)
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> -> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's very useful against killing rambos far from your hive. If you don't have offensive healing stations, regen can save you vital time (and is very good for recon skulks). You say that it takes a long time to heal from 1 hp to full, but from experience most marines only take me down to about 48/12 or 54/13 before I kill them. You only need to survive two or three rambos to achieve the same effect as healing from 1 hp, and also it keeps you in the field, harrying marine expansion, and giving vital intelligence on enemy troop movement. Imagine, say, that you take out a marine defending a just-built resource tower, and that backup is on its way. With cara, you are injured and will most certainly die without help and be unsuccessful in killing the rt. With regen, chances are that you will have healed fully (lvl 3 regen gives you 6.5 or so health a tick) by the time reinforcements arrive, and you should be able to kill the marine with ease, and finish the rt.
Don't say this is an isolated incident, it happens all the time.
For those who didn't play the game in 1.04, Carapace used to give you 100% more life (now it is <50%) and regen was a lot slower.
at lvl 3 cara, it takes a marine with lvl 0 lmg 15 bullets to kill you rather than 11 bullets
Perhaps it does. A carapaced Skulk can sustain 155 damage before dying.
The method I used to determine that has so far proven 100% accurate in predicting the how much damage a player class can sustain, in 2.0x. Not that I've actually done all that much testing; feel free to test it.
It is:
If a/(p/2) > h/(1-p), then e = h/(1-p), else e = h+2a
Where
<b>a</b> is the player's current armor.
<b>h</b> is the player's current health.
<b>p</b> is the player's armor absorption percentage, expressed as a decimal. This is dependant on armor level, and is .3 at level 0, .4 at level 1, .5 at level 2, .6 at level 3, and .95 for heavy armor.
<b>e</b> is how much damage the player can sustain (I call this the player's effective health, hence e).
in late/end game with level 3 hmg, neither makes much of a difference as a SKULK. regen will NOT work fast enuff to save your hide (it might extend your life by half a second) and cara will give u an extra bullet (AT MOST 2) of life at level 3 hmg ... and i'm sure you all know, ONE bullet is hardly an advantage as a skulk. End game skulks usually just xeno and i never bother wasting two res to get cara before i xeno (since end game usually means HA/HMG/3/3 and it is VERY unlikely that a single skulk can kill a super HA by himself). (since i'll die either way).
Fades and oni are awesome with regen and should always get regen (rarely, if ever cara). if your a hive defense onos, and ur hive has lots of DC's, then cara is the way to go. If you are an offense onos, get regen obviously. Fade's suck with cara (but they only give u an extra 25 armor as fade). if you want to heal as fast as possible, get regen, blink to a hard-to-reach place and metabolize. Again, the extra 25 armor is only 2-3 bullets of extra life as a fade and you don't get healed as you blink around and get shot at. fades used to get 50 extra armor with cara and oni get 200 (!) extra armor with cara in 1.04.
regen lerks are awesome (spore and hide ... repeat ad nauseum) and you should never get cara ... because lerks are not frontal assault units.
Gorges are good with cara if you have celerity (so if a marine is shootin at you, you escape ASAP to a healing station (a few dc's and a few oc's in a hallway or something) but i usually do redemption if i plan on staying gorge for quite some time.
a skulk has a base health of 75 hp.
at level 3 cara, skulk has 30 armor (either 25 or 30 armor ... can't seem to recall which)
that is 105 points of damage, NOT 155
105 points of damage = 11 lmg bullets to kill
105 points of damage = 6 hmg bullets to kill
105 points of damage = 1 shotty blast to kill (at close range)
105 points of damage = 6 pistol bullets to kill
under any circumstances, do NOT blindly rush the marines if they know where you are unless
1) they have no ammo
2) they have HORRIBLE aim.
even with level 3 cara, 11 bullets is not that much ... cara is only meant to make a difference in close range battle ... in long range hallway rushes, level 3 cara skulks SHOULD always get owned by vanilla 0/0 marines ... in close quarters chomping action, level 3 cara skulks SHOULD always own even level 1 armor marines. (11 bullets is a LOT of bullets worth of damage in close quaters fighting but in long halls, its nothing)
a skulk has a base health of 75 hp.
at level 3 cara, skulk has 30 armor (either 25 or 30 armor ... can't seem to recall which)
that is 105 points of damage, NOT 155
105 points of damage = 11 lmg bullets to kill
105 points of damage = 6 hmg bullets to kill
105 points of damage = 1 shotty blast to kill (at close range)
105 points of damage = 6 pistol bullets to kill<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You obviously do not know how the armor system works. Not surprisingly, though; it is fairly complicated and is not well known. So I will explain it.
When a player receives damage, a certain percent of the damage goes to armor. Before being deducted from the player's armor, half of that damage is negated. The rest of the damage (the damage that did not go to armor) is deducted from the player's health. The percent of the damage that goes to armor is dependant on armor/carapace level, and is 30% at level 0, 40% at level 1, 50% at level 2, 60% at level 3, and 95% for heavy armor.
Level 3 cara absorbs 60% of the damage an alien takes, in addition to only decreasing by half the damage it absorbs.
This means that the 40 armor of a skulk will soak up 133.3 damage before it craps out.
This means that the skulk has taken an effective 13.33 * 4 = 53.33.. damage
Effectively, that means the skulk still has 21.66.. hp.
Therefore, a L3 cara skulk has an effective hp of 133.3.. + 21.6.. = 155 hp.
Pwned.
*edit shoot, civilian got to it first*
under any circumstances, do NOT blindly rush the marines if they know where you are unless
1) they have no ammo
2) they have HORRIBLE aim.
even with level 3 cara, 11 bullets is not that much ... cara is only meant to make a difference in close range battle ... in long range hallway rushes, level 3 cara skulks SHOULD always get owned by vanilla 0/0 marines ... in close quarters chomping action, level 3 cara skulks SHOULD always own even level 1 armor marines. (11 bullets is a LOT of bullets worth of damage in close quaters fighting but in long halls, its nothing) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Moral of the post: Don't post if you don't know or understand the subject.
consider this: Marine team is holed up in some akward position. They all have HMG's decked out, and are sitting back.
If you get Regen, you will gain about 60 HP/tick. But if the average server has 16 people on it, then that is 8, angry machine gunners ripping your husk apart. Ouch!
Carapace gives you 250 armour, a great deal of difference when facing that turett farm with that pile of farmers nearby. I've done more damage with Carapace than with regen.
Regen also causes Ono's to become retarded, where they will slowly tiptoe toward the marine base, get hit by one **** bullet, adn run away. "OMG I LOST A NAIL TIME TO HEAL!!!11!". Then they yell at me cause I was behind them and thought that they would go attack like the damnwell should :mad:.
*Ahem* Sorry... But you see my point <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I, too, am wondering why this thread has been resurrected.
The topic is valid, but the thread isn't. Start afresh, gentlemen.