<!--QuoteBegin--oblivion is at hand+Jul 7 2003, 11:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (oblivion is at hand @ Jul 7 2003, 11:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Lerk: defensive carapace, offensive regen <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> How many times do i have to say it. A regen lerk is a dead lerk. They drop so fast they'll never even get one tick of regen in. Offensively is even worse. The definatly need cara. It takes 3 seconds to fly to a hive and back. Dont be lazy. DONT blow 33 res for your team by wasting it on a regen lerk.
just another thing.. cara onos > regen onos... sure you'll have to run back and heal... but timewise? you'll be in the thick of things longer than if you were regen onos...
The extra hits you can take easily make carapace prefered on a skulk. I almost never use regen, unless I am going to focus solely on parasiting marines.
Lerk: Cara if attacking. Regen if pinning down marines.
Basically the same as with a skulk. Regen just isn't fast enough to repair the lerk, even if he is sitting in umbra. I use this: if I bite, I get cara, if I spike, I get regen. Just make sure that if you regen, you are constantly either in motion or in umbra, to avoid getting mowed down by a pistol.
Fade: Cara
I always go Cara, but I also play a slash/blink fade and not a spammer.
Onos: Regen
As a regen onos, I have never once died. After regen got a boost in 1.04, the regenenos became almost impossible to kill. Sure Cara is better, but only if you have a defence station nearby to the base you are assulting. If I have regen, cloak and adrenaline, I will ravage a base, and then hide around a corner until I am at full health again. In fact, I usually just keep attacking, because it takes more than a single marine concentrating on a regenenos to kill it. Turrets against a regenenos are useless, you will regen faster than you are damaged.
If you are a lerk with umbra supporting fades, take regen. The fades will take most of the hits, and any hits you take will quickly be healed. If you are on your own you probably need cara, regardless of anything else. As an onos, if you have any type of support in an attack, regen means you never have to leave the fight. If 4 marines try and focus fire on you, a skulk, fade, or another onos will quickly kill them.
From my experience, a regen onos can stand in front of 4 to 5 turrets with regen and never die. A regen onos can take out an entire turret single handed if he stands in the right spot. You might be able to do it with carapace, but relying on a gorge to have an extensive network of D chambers on a public server is a bad idea.
The decision on what you take needs to be made for each individual and their situation. Let me explain mine.
I use a 56k to play, this generally gives me a ping of 250-300. In a face off with a marine, close quarters or at range, I am at the disadvantage 90% of the time because of my ping. If I don't have a means of surviving the difference in our communication speeds I end up dead, this is regardless of whether I have cara or not.
I take regen, everytime, regardless of what alien I am. The reason I do so is that it DOES offer me that means of surviving a marine encounter that cara does not. **** you say, well if you had my ping you would know what I know. Many's the time I 'died' in an encounter with a marine when using cara, far fewer are the times when using regen, the server KNOWS I'm using regen, it takes the regen tics into consideration when recieving the opponents attack information. I can't count the number of times I have 'died' on my screen but remained alive because the regen tic gave me just enough health to keep moving.
It's funny too when you die then keep moving because you really aren't dead. I can take far more bullets in the long run with regen than cara. Yes I do die faster when faced with a lvl2 marine point blank, thing is going point blank with cara is going to get me just as dead, at least when a chance encounter happens I have the advantage of the server knowing that I have regen and using that in it's calculation of my life/death.
So saying cara is the only way to go, or that regen is the choice for skilled players is really not all that helpful or the end all of the issue, look at your situation and that of the people you play against and choose your upgrade accordingly.
<!--QuoteBegin--Creepin_Jeezus+Jul 3 2003, 11:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Creepin_Jeezus @ Jul 3 2003, 11:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've been playing NS (amazing mod, keep the work up) for a good few weeks now, for the most part i play aliens, but one of things i've been thinking about the past day or so, is wether the regen of cara upgrade is best.
heres my thoughts on each...
<u>Carapace</u> I havn't been using this as long as regen, so i don't have as much experience with it. My thoughts about it is wether the extra time you can get to live is worth it... im sure its very usefull against low level guns, like LMGs, but what about the later stages? also, if you want to live for any extended period of time you'll have to run back and get healed, which means you can only do short attacks or suprises...
on the other hand there
<u>Regeneration</u> This is my personal favourite. especially when attacking turret farms with no marines, and even more so with celerity (assuming your a skulk). Also it can let you keep the pressure on a marine base, just simply hide a little distance away and then rush back in, or, you can hide in a hard to reach place, where the odd shot will hit you, which will be healed, distracting one or two marines for a few minutes, maybe even help an ambush!
but now for your oppinions... <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Carapace for all and everything, I have yet to hear regen for anything other then having fun with an onos.
Regen on anything except an onos is a free kill. It's still pretty easy to kill an onos with regen but you actually have to work for it somewhat instead of just spraying in his general direction like with other alien lifeforms.
People talking about "evade skills" make me laugh. It's not like you're dodging acid rockets -- marines have hitscan weapons. If they can aim, you are dead. Short of being so impossibly good at throwing off their aim that you can actually get away with using regen, there is no avoiding this. But if you're THAT good (or the marines are THAT bad) why don't you just pick cara and own their entire team in 1 go? You're needlessly handicapping yourself with regen.
But that's only the skulk VS marine scenario. Regen doesn't help at all against mines, cara does. Aliens without cara also tend to get owned by grenades pretty easily.
<!--QuoteBegin--Kazyras+Jul 9 2003, 02:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kazyras @ Jul 9 2003, 02:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Regen on anything except an onos is a free kill. It's still pretty easy to kill an onos with regen but you actually have to work for it somewhat instead of just spraying in his general direction like with other alien lifeforms.
People talking about "evade skills" make me laugh. It's not like you're dodging acid rockets -- marines have hitscan weapons. If they can aim, you are dead. Short of being so impossibly good at throwing off their aim that you can actually get away with using regen, there is no avoiding this. But if you're THAT good (or the marines are THAT bad) why don't you just pick cara and own their entire team in 1 go? You're needlessly handicapping yourself with regen.
But that's only the skulk VS marine scenario. Regen doesn't help at all against mines, cara does. Aliens without cara also tend to get owned by grenades pretty easily. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Regen on a fade does work well with the right playing style. The way I play is to stay about 50 feet away from marines, then peek around a corner and spray acid rocket, then retreat. I wait for my adrenaline to refill, and health if necessary, then repeat. If marines are there, I make sure not to use up all my adrenaline in case they try to chase me down. Even if their aim is 100% accurate, they only have time to hit me with a few bullets before I retreat. When they chase me down I am distracting several people (unless there is only one, in which case I pull out claws and they die), and I heal as I retreat. I can spray acid rockets as they try to catch up (I usually run backwards so I can do this), and the bullets have been wasted. If there is umbra to support me, it can be a while before I even need to retreat. With umbra nearby, I will just barely retreat while my adrenaline refills. I imagine most people would call this a poor use of a fade, but it works for me and it makes better use of regen than cara.
cara for lerk if you're doing anything offensive, but if you're just umbra support for fades then use regen. regen isn't bad for 2 hive lerks because umbra works like armour
cara most of the time for fades, but i'm an 'up close and personal' fade, regen works well for others.
Cara or regen for onos, doesn't matter, the marines are dead either way - prolly prefer regen since by the itme you have onos you prolly have sens too so you can cloak up and regen somewhere. cara just means you have to go run to some dcs (likley getting stuck somewhere)
SinSpawnHarbinger of SufferingJoin Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8359Members
I wish some one would get some statistics or make a new thread on it
I.e non celerity skulks run at speed 6 and celerity skulks run at speed 9, etc I.E no carapace skulks can with stand a MAX of 7 bullets and 4 HMg bullets and so forth
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Regen on a fade does work well with the right playing style. The way I play is to stay about 50 feet away from marines, then peek around a corner and spray acid rocket, then retreat. I wait for my adrenaline to refill, and health if necessary, then repeat. If marines are there, I make sure not to use up all my adrenaline in case they try to chase me down. Even if their aim is 100% accurate, they only have time to hit me with a few bullets before I retreat. When they chase me down I am distracting several people (unless there is only one, in which case I pull out claws and they die), and I heal as I retreat. I can spray acid rockets as they try to catch up (I usually run backwards so I can do this), and the bullets have been wasted. If there is umbra to support me, it can be a while before I even need to retreat. With umbra nearby, I will just barely retreat while my adrenaline refills. I imagine most people would call this a poor use of a fade, but it works for me and it makes better use of regen than cara.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This will work well until a JPer chases you down at an amazingly fast speed and nails you in 0.1 seconds.
<!--QuoteBegin--Majin+Jul 10 2003, 02:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Majin @ Jul 10 2003, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Gorge: Regen is a Must, your not fast enough to run, but you might be able to hide, and what good is hiding if you have no life to escape with. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
I've never been killed by a solo Marine when I have carapace. Never. With regen it happens. Also, you CAN'T hide with regen if you get hurt since they will hear you. Besides, Gorges build DC's... of all teh upgrades for gorges I would say that regen is the *worst*.
<!--QuoteBegin--Majin+Jul 10 2003, 02:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Majin @ Jul 10 2003, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Lerk: Regen most times, depends on the map and your abilities. Your a hit and runner, or a defender, get in and get out, heal and repeat.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You will be pistoled to death instantly.
<!--QuoteBegin--Majin+Jul 10 2003, 02:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Majin @ Jul 10 2003, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Gorge: Regen is a Must, your not fast enough to run, but you might be able to hide, and what good is hiding if you have no life to escape with. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> disagreed. Get carapace. With carapace, you may not need to run.
Lerk: Regen most times, depends on the map and your abilities. Your a hit and runner, or a defender, get in and get out, heal and repeat. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> what the guy above me said.
<!--QuoteBegin--Majin+Jul 11 2003, 03:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Majin @ Jul 11 2003, 03:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Fade: Carapace hands down, you need to be able to stand and acid bomb like mad, you then Blink away to get heals and start over. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> "stand" and acid bomb like mad? And let them empty their clips (*cough*, ok Sirius. <i>Magazines</i>. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) into you? Let me guess, you're one of those players who walks right up to turrets to take them out with claws, or who rushes a marine head on. Are you nuts?! <i>Never stop moving.</i> Never rely on your armour for <i>anything</i>
SinSpawnHarbinger of SufferingJoin Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8359Members
edited July 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--Kazyras+Jul 9 2003, 07:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kazyras @ Jul 9 2003, 07:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> SinSpawn:<a href='http://www.geocities.com/kitsune/104stats.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.geocities.com/kitsune/104stats.htm</a> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='color:orange'>Thank you Kazyras, this will be so useful to me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> now I can plan tactics and show myself to marines for a certain amount of time <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->, etc</span>[/COLOR]
EDIT: after actually looking at it, its kinda confuzing..can some one explain what all the numbers mean???
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--QuoteBegin--SinSpawn+Jul 12 2003, 06:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SinSpawn @ Jul 12 2003, 06:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->EDIT: after actually looking at it, its kinda confuzing..can some one explain what all the numbers mean???<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'll explain the first two tables, you should be able to figure it out after that. <!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
Base Damage No Carapace Carapace 1 Carapace 2 Carapace 3
10 7/1.5 5/1.8 4/2 2/2.1 This is how much damage a single level 0 LMG bullet inflicts to an alien's health/armor.
11 7/1.65 5/1.98 4/2.2 3/2.31 Same as above, but for a level 1 LMG.
12 8/1.8 6/2.16 4/2.4 3/2.52 Level 2 LMG.
13 9/1.95 7/2.34 5/2.6 3/2.73 Level 3 LMG.
Base Damage Skulk Lerk Gorge Fade Onos
10 9/12/14/19 9/12/15/30 15/20/25/39 29/40/50/77 72/100/125/184 This is how many level 0 LMG bullets it takes to kill the lifeform, with carapace level 0/1/2/3.
11 9/11/14/16 9/12/15/20 15/20/25/33 29/40/50/66 72/100/125/156 Same as above, but for a level 1 LMG.
SinSpawnHarbinger of SufferingJoin Date: 2002-11-12Member: 8359Members
<!--QuoteBegin--a civilian+Jul 12 2003, 03:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (a civilian @ Jul 12 2003, 03:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--SinSpawn+Jul 12 2003, 06:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SinSpawn @ Jul 12 2003, 06:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->EDIT: after actually looking at it, its kinda confuzing..can some one explain what all the numbers mean???<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'll explain the first two tables, you should be able to figure it out after that. <!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
Base Damage No Carapace Carapace 1 Carapace 2 Carapace 3
10 7/1.5 5/1.8 4/2 2/2.1 This is how much damage a single level 0 LMG bullet inflicts to an alien's health/armor.
11 7/1.65 5/1.98 4/2.2 3/2.31 Same as above, but for a level 1 LMG.
12 8/1.8 6/2.16 4/2.4 3/2.52 Level 2 LMG.
13 9/1.95 7/2.34 5/2.6 3/2.73 Level 3 LMG.
Base Damage Skulk Lerk Gorge Fade Onos
10 9/12/14/19 9/12/15/30 15/20/25/39 29/40/50/77 72/100/125/184 This is how many level 0 LMG bullets it takes to kill the lifeform, with carapace level 0/1/2/3.
11 9/11/14/16 9/12/15/20 15/20/25/33 29/40/50/66 72/100/125/156 Same as above, but for a level 1 LMG.
13 7/9/11/14 7/9/12/20 12/15/20/29 23/29/40/58 56/72/100/138 Level 3 LMG. <!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ty, I was mainly confuzed on the 2nd table, but no more <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hmm....the point about redemption <b>as a skulk</b> hasn't come up. I play on Absolut's server, and redemption has saved my butt several times. There's nothing like the guerrilla tactics of a pack when you have redemption...normally, with cara, a pack of 3 skulks vs. 2 marines will end will all of the skulks dying and maybe 1 marine dying. (some ppl on absolut's server are just insanely good @ marine)
However, with redemption, if you're jumping around and constantly moving, you'll redeem back to the hive before you die (most of the time). Same is true with gorges.
The only time I don't use redemption as a skulk is if there is an immediate threat which requires taking out buildings or defending the hive. In that case, I'll use carapace. The only time I use regen is when I'm a battle gorge trying to get ot's/dc's up in the midst of fades or when I'm a lerk shooting out of a vent. Since I don't have great flying abilities, it's faster for me to regen than fly back.
Redemption has actually put my Kill:Death ratio way up...from ~.5 to ~1.5 or 2.
There's your problem, right there. Redemption might save your butt, but your butt isn't worth saving. Your job is not to get the highest kill\death ratio, it's to get the highest killscore. Your sole job is to kill for your team; if you're interested in self preservation then you're fighting for the wrong reason. Carapace helps you make kills; so does regeneration to an extent. Redemption helps you run away, and that's not what your team needs.
Redemtion would work fine with most classes if it weren't for valve lag compensation. It basicly assumes that since you were there less than half a second ago, that the bullets actually hit you, and thats what leads to death after redemtion...
But then again if it weren't for lag compensation it would be near impossible to skulk.. I think. Never actually found a server without it enabled..
<!--QuoteBegin--SoulSkorpion+Jul 12 2003, 08:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Jul 12 2003, 08:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There's your problem, right there. Redemption might save your butt, but your butt isn't worth saving. Your job is not to get the highest kill\death ratio, it's to get the highest killscore. Your sole job is to kill for your team; if you're interested in self preservation then you're fighting for the wrong reason. Carapace helps you make kills; so does regeneration to an extent. Redemption helps you run away, and that's not what your team needs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree that Redemtion is bad when used only to keep up a good k/d ratio, but it can also be very good. Say someone took down your second hive, well, luckily your team was able to get a fade in time, but they have really fortified the other two hives, and you need the fade to get the hives back. Do you A) let a fade with cara run in there and risk of loosing him, or B) have a fade with redemption go in and have the chance of being able to make more than one assult on the hive.
Also, redemtion can be useful in the way that you don't die, so you have no need to respawn. Most games Aliens ony have 2 spawn points max, you shouldn't go off clogging them up when you most need to have people alive.
Saving your butt for a ratio is bad, but saving it for the team is okay.
Comments
Lerk: defensive carapace, offensive regen
Fade: Regen
Onos: Regen
Lerk: defensive carapace, offensive regen
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
How many times do i have to say it. A regen lerk is a dead lerk. They drop so fast they'll never even get one tick of regen in. Offensively is even worse. The definatly need cara. It takes 3 seconds to fly to a hive and back. Dont be lazy. DONT blow 33 res for your team by wasting it on a regen lerk.
Skulk: Cara
The extra hits you can take easily make carapace prefered on a skulk. I almost never use regen, unless I am going to focus solely on parasiting marines.
Lerk: Cara if attacking. Regen if pinning down marines.
Basically the same as with a skulk. Regen just isn't fast enough to repair the lerk, even if he is sitting in umbra. I use this: if I bite, I get cara, if I spike, I get regen. Just make sure that if you regen, you are constantly either in motion or in umbra, to avoid getting mowed down by a pistol.
Fade: Cara
I always go Cara, but I also play a slash/blink fade and not a spammer.
Onos: Regen
As a regen onos, I have never once died. After regen got a boost in 1.04, the regenenos became almost impossible to kill. Sure Cara is better, but only if you have a defence station nearby to the base you are assulting. If I have regen, cloak and adrenaline, I will ravage a base, and then hide around a corner until I am at full health again. In fact, I usually just keep attacking, because it takes more than a single marine concentrating on a regenenos to kill it. Turrets against a regenenos are useless, you will regen faster than you are damaged.
I use a 56k to play, this generally gives me a ping of 250-300. In a face off with a marine, close quarters or at range, I am at the disadvantage 90% of the time because of my ping. If I don't have a means of surviving the difference in our communication speeds I end up dead, this is regardless of whether I have cara or not.
I take regen, everytime, regardless of what alien I am. The reason I do so is that it DOES offer me that means of surviving a marine encounter that cara does not. **** you say, well if you had my ping you would know what I know. Many's the time I 'died' in an encounter with a marine when using cara, far fewer are the times when using regen, the server KNOWS I'm using regen, it takes the regen tics into consideration when recieving the opponents attack information. I can't count the number of times I have 'died' on my screen but remained alive because the regen tic gave me just enough health to keep moving.
It's funny too when you die then keep moving because you really aren't dead. I can take far more bullets in the long run with regen than cara. Yes I do die faster when faced with a lvl2 marine point blank, thing is going point blank with cara is going to get me just as dead, at least when a chance encounter happens I have the advantage of the server knowing that I have regen and using that in it's calculation of my life/death.
So saying cara is the only way to go, or that regen is the choice for skilled players is really not all that helpful or the end all of the issue, look at your situation and that of the people you play against and choose your upgrade accordingly.
heres my thoughts on each...
<u>Carapace</u>
I havn't been using this as long as regen, so i don't have as much experience with it. My thoughts about it is wether the extra time you can get to live is worth it... im sure its very usefull against low level guns, like LMGs, but what about the later stages? also, if you want to live for any extended period of time you'll have to run back and get healed, which means you can only do short attacks or suprises...
on the other hand there
<u>Regeneration</u>
This is my personal favourite. especially when attacking turret farms with no marines, and even more so with celerity (assuming your a skulk). Also it can let you keep the pressure on a marine base, just simply hide a little distance away and then rush back in, or, you can hide in a hard to reach place, where the odd shot will hit you, which will be healed, distracting one or two marines for a few minutes, maybe even help an ambush!
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
but now for your oppinions... <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Carapace for all and everything, I have yet to hear regen for anything other then having fun with an onos.
People talking about "evade skills" make me laugh. It's not like you're dodging acid rockets -- marines have hitscan weapons. If they can aim, you are dead. Short of being so impossibly good at throwing off their aim that you can actually get away with using regen, there is no avoiding this. But if you're THAT good (or the marines are THAT bad) why don't you just pick cara and own their entire team in 1 go? You're needlessly handicapping yourself with regen.
But that's only the skulk VS marine scenario. Regen doesn't help at all against mines, cara does. Aliens without cara also tend to get owned by grenades pretty easily.
People talking about "evade skills" make me laugh. It's not like you're dodging acid rockets -- marines have hitscan weapons. If they can aim, you are dead. Short of being so impossibly good at throwing off their aim that you can actually get away with using regen, there is no avoiding this. But if you're THAT good (or the marines are THAT bad) why don't you just pick cara and own their entire team in 1 go? You're needlessly handicapping yourself with regen.
But that's only the skulk VS marine scenario. Regen doesn't help at all against mines, cara does. Aliens without cara also tend to get owned by grenades pretty easily. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Regen on a fade does work well with the right playing style. The way I play is to stay about 50 feet away from marines, then peek around a corner and spray acid rocket, then retreat. I wait for my adrenaline to refill, and health if necessary, then repeat. If marines are there, I make sure not to use up all my adrenaline in case they try to chase me down. Even if their aim is 100% accurate, they only have time to hit me with a few bullets before I retreat. When they chase me down I am distracting several people (unless there is only one, in which case I pull out claws and they die), and I heal as I retreat. I can spray acid rockets as they try to catch up (I usually run backwards so I can do this), and the bullets have been wasted. If there is umbra to support me, it can be a while before I even need to retreat. With umbra nearby, I will just barely retreat while my adrenaline refills. I imagine most people would call this a poor use of a fade, but it works for me and it makes better use of regen than cara.
In the situation you describe, I would expect to have some D chambers around the corner so I'd be better off with Cara anyway.
If you're on a disorganised team with no good D placement, and/or you're "far away from home" playing Rambo, regen will work better of course.
redemption is best for gorges
cara for lerk if you're doing anything offensive, but if you're just umbra support for fades then use regen. regen
isn't bad for 2 hive lerks because umbra works like armour
cara most of the time for fades, but i'm an 'up close and personal' fade, regen works well for others.
Cara or regen for onos, doesn't matter, the marines are dead either way - prolly prefer regen since by the itme you have onos you prolly have sens too so you can cloak up and regen somewhere. cara just means you have to go run to some dcs (likley getting stuck somewhere)
I.e non celerity skulks run at speed 6 and celerity skulks run at speed 9, etc
I.E no carapace skulks can with stand a MAX of 7 bullets and 4 HMg bullets and so forth
this would be <b>EXTREMELY</b> useful
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Regen on a fade does work well with the right playing style. The way I play is to stay about 50 feet away from marines, then peek around a corner and spray acid rocket, then retreat. I wait for my adrenaline to refill, and health if necessary, then repeat. If marines are there, I make sure not to use up all my adrenaline in case they try to chase me down. Even if their aim is 100% accurate, they only have time to hit me with a few bullets before I retreat. When they chase me down I am distracting several people (unless there is only one, in which case I pull out claws and they die), and I heal as I retreat. I can spray acid rockets as they try to catch up (I usually run backwards so I can do this), and the bullets have been wasted. If there is umbra to support me, it can be a while before I even need to retreat. With umbra nearby, I will just barely retreat while my adrenaline refills. I imagine most people would call this a poor use of a fade, but it works for me and it makes better use of regen than cara.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This will work well until a JPer chases you down at an amazingly fast speed and nails you in 0.1 seconds.
O ya but you really only have to fear the jps as a regen fade. And FEAR them. they will destroy you.
Skulk: Carapace is a Must, you can take much more damage and maybe get in the 2 extra bite needed to kill Level 3 armor marines.
Gorge: Regen is a Must, your not fast enough to run, but you might be able to hide, and what good is hiding if you have no life to escape with.
Lerk: Regen most times, depends on the map and your abilities. Your a hit and runner, or a defender, get in and get out, heal and repeat.
Fade: Carapace hands down, you need to be able to stand and acid bomb like mad, you then Blink away to get heals and start over.
Onos: Carapace, you can take a full HMG clip on level 3 with full carapace, no one will ever get in a full clip, you'll kill them and move on.
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I've never been killed by a solo Marine when I have carapace. Never. With regen it happens. Also, you CAN'T hide with regen if you get hurt since they will hear you. Besides, Gorges build DC's... of all teh upgrades for gorges I would say that regen is the *worst*.
You will be pistoled to death instantly.
Gorge: Regen is a Must, your not fast enough to run, but you might be able to hide, and what good is hiding if you have no life to escape with.
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disagreed. Get carapace. With carapace, you may not need to run.
Lerk: Regen most times, depends on the map and your abilities. Your a hit and runner, or a defender, get in and get out, heal and repeat.
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what the guy above me said.
"stand" and acid bomb like mad? And let them empty their clips (*cough*, ok Sirius. <i>Magazines</i>. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) into you? Let me guess, you're one of those players who walks right up to turrets to take them out with claws, or who rushes a marine head on. Are you nuts?! <i>Never stop moving.</i> Never rely on your armour for <i>anything</i>
<span style='color:orange'>Thank you Kazyras, this will be so useful to me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> now I can plan tactics and show myself to marines for a certain amount of time <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->, etc</span>[/COLOR]
EDIT: after actually looking at it, its kinda confuzing..can some one explain what all the numbers mean???
I'll explain the first two tables, you should be able to figure it out after that.
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
Base Damage No Carapace Carapace 1 Carapace 2 Carapace 3
10 7/1.5 5/1.8 4/2 2/2.1 This is how much damage a single level 0 LMG bullet inflicts to an alien's health/armor.
11 7/1.65 5/1.98 4/2.2 3/2.31 Same as above, but for a level 1 LMG.
12 8/1.8 6/2.16 4/2.4 3/2.52 Level 2 LMG.
13 9/1.95 7/2.34 5/2.6 3/2.73 Level 3 LMG.
Base Damage Skulk Lerk Gorge Fade Onos
10 9/12/14/19 9/12/15/30 15/20/25/39 29/40/50/77 72/100/125/184 This is how many level 0 LMG bullets it takes to kill the lifeform, with carapace level 0/1/2/3.
11 9/11/14/16 9/12/15/20 15/20/25/33 29/40/50/66 72/100/125/156 Same as above, but for a level 1 LMG.
12 8/10/13/15 8/10/15/20 13/17/25/31 25/34/50/62 63/84/121/146 Level 2 LMG.
13 7/9/11/14 7/9/12/20 12/15/20/29 23/29/40/58 56/72/100/138 Level 3 LMG.
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I'll explain the first two tables, you should be able to figure it out after that.
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
Base Damage No Carapace Carapace 1 Carapace 2 Carapace 3
10 7/1.5 5/1.8 4/2 2/2.1 This is how much damage a single level 0 LMG bullet inflicts to an alien's health/armor.
11 7/1.65 5/1.98 4/2.2 3/2.31 Same as above, but for a level 1 LMG.
12 8/1.8 6/2.16 4/2.4 3/2.52 Level 2 LMG.
13 9/1.95 7/2.34 5/2.6 3/2.73 Level 3 LMG.
Base Damage Skulk Lerk Gorge Fade Onos
10 9/12/14/19 9/12/15/30 15/20/25/39 29/40/50/77 72/100/125/184 This is how many level 0 LMG bullets it takes to kill the lifeform, with carapace level 0/1/2/3.
11 9/11/14/16 9/12/15/20 15/20/25/33 29/40/50/66 72/100/125/156 Same as above, but for a level 1 LMG.
12 8/10/13/15 8/10/15/20 13/17/25/31 25/34/50/62 63/84/121/146 Level 2 LMG.
13 7/9/11/14 7/9/12/20 12/15/20/29 23/29/40/58 56/72/100/138 Level 3 LMG.
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Ty, I was mainly confuzed on the 2nd table, but no more <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
However, with redemption, if you're jumping around and constantly moving, you'll redeem back to the hive before you die (most of the time). Same is true with gorges.
The only time I don't use redemption as a skulk is if there is an immediate threat which requires taking out buildings or defending the hive. In that case, I'll use carapace. The only time I use regen is when I'm a battle gorge trying to get ot's/dc's up in the midst of fades or when I'm a lerk shooting out of a vent. Since I don't have great flying abilities, it's faster for me to regen than fly back.
Redemption has actually put my Kill:Death ratio way up...from ~.5 to ~1.5 or 2.
pwned. The only game where K/D ratio applys is Counter-n00b (fun game, stupid players).
But then again if it weren't for lag compensation it would be near impossible to skulk.. I think.
Never actually found a server without it enabled..
I agree that Redemtion is bad when used only to keep up a good k/d ratio, but it can also be very good.
Say someone took down your second hive, well, luckily your team was able to get a fade in time, but they have really fortified the other two hives, and you need the fade to get the hives back. Do you A) let a fade with cara run in there and risk of loosing him, or B) have a fade with redemption go in and have the chance of being able to make more than one assult on the hive.
Also, redemtion can be useful in the way that you don't die, so you have no need to respawn. Most games Aliens ony have 2 spawn points max, you shouldn't go off clogging them up when you most need to have people alive.
Saving your butt for a ratio is bad, but saving it for the team is okay.