OK I will try to keep this as concise as possible.
Trials were conducted by standing on the head of a player in heavy armour with level 0 1 2 and 3 upgrades to armour. I tried both adrenaline and celerity (to ensure that the difference in speed does NOT affect difference in touches per leap).
1 "tick" = L 04/02/2003 - 09:28:34: "Roo" attacked "The Nalic" with "leap" (damage "4") In all cases, the only recorded lines in the log file are the DAMAGE TO THE MARINE'S HEALTH:
Number of ticks recorded in log file: 25 = 100 damage. time for kill from first leap damage in log file: <1s This tells us that we have to rely on the armour left after an entire leap, and that in turn should give the number of ticks per leap, depending on whether armour takes all damage or acts even a little like carapace...
<span style='color:red'>1) Level 0 ARMOUR 100HP and 210ARM </span> leap 1 takes HA down to 11 armour and 100 health. leap 2 kills HA
<span style='color:red'>2) LEVEL 1 ARMOUR 100HP, 230ARM </span> leap 1 takes HA down to 43 and 100 health. leap 2 kills HA
<span style='color:red'>2) LEVEL 2 ARMOUR 100HP, 260ARM </span> leap 1 takes HA down to 75 and 100 health. leap 2 kills HA
<span style='color:red'>2) LEVEL 3 ARMOUR 100HP, 290ARM </span> leap 1 takes HA down to XX and 100 health. (IT IS NOT YET KNOWN IF LEAP 2 KILLS HA or if a third is required... see further work)
All results are in duplicate.
<span style='color:blue'> Discussion</span> clearly an ODD numbered value for armour after an entire leap (based on n*4) means that armour must absorb some damage without reducing the armour value by the full amount:
Level 0 damage to armour in 1 leap = 199 (0.5%) Level 1 damage to armour in 1 leap = 187 (6.5%) Level 2 damage to armour in 1 leap = 185 (7.5%) Level 3 damage to armour in 1 leap = 182 (9%)
The percentages by the side are based on 200 damage per leap (50 touches per leap - ASSUMPTION!) and are the percentage damage absorbance of having armour (amount of damage NOT recorded to armour).
IT IS NOT POSSIBLE to determine from this trial how many touches one leap does, as all that is recorded are 25 leap hits per kill. IF, however the marine has 108 armour left after a leap (on level3), then a second leap will not kill the marine if the number of touches is LESS THAN 52 per leap. I cannot state this with any absolute certainty as yet, as the third experiment needs to be repeated first.
Finally, leaping many times in succession DOES add up all the potential touches and the marine will die quicker. This has already been pretty much established anyway.
Leap is very difficult to use correctly. It can be used to greatest effect in vents (far quicker at destroying marines than bite!), but be very careful in entering into open area fights with marines. As I've said before, trapping them against walls, in corners - THOSE are the places leap kills are most easily obtained.
<span style='color:purple'>Further Experiments </span> This final one (level 3) needs to be done again. I didn't realise when I started the experiment that the only logged contacts are those that damage <b>health</b>. In view of this, level 3 armour should be done again to determine the value of XX (predicted value from the above data = 108) A good next experiment would be to repeat the above, but with a commander medpack spamming the marine. HA need not be used, but may be useful for aiding the timing of medpack dropping. by prolonging the life of a marine it may be possible to identify the exact number of touches one leap can achieve. I am aware that this may also be an FPS issue, and I will conduct a separate experiment on that too, hoping that by setting max_fps, the desired effect is obtained.
So there it is, plenty more to do, but a taster is there. My FEELING is that the leap does 50 touches PER LEAP. I have fps at 100 though and will check to see if that can affect this tentative value.
(originally posted by SoulSkorpion) Sorry to take things back ON topic...
I never use leap to kill things. That's not what leap is best used for, IMHO. Use it to dodge and to close the distance, wait for the marine to drain their clip, and finish with bite. Bite is very efficient; there's nothing wrong with using leap only for propelling yourself.
I don't think my post is off topic, after all Immac wants to know how to be a dangerous and efficient leap killer like meh <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
And I have to say, in the vent to cargo bay (ns_nothing), leap > ha/hmg and leap > jp/hmg The number of leap kills I have in that vent is quite unfeasibly large, as the marines think their HMG is going to pwn my little skulky bottom. 2 leaps makes you close down the distance VERY quickly (especially up that slope if they're at the top). By that point you'll be on half health if they are decent, 3/4 to full if they're not. The kill takes < 1/2 second after that, arguably slightly more for HA. Easy peasy <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
But yeah there's nothing WRONG with using leap JUST to close down distance, I'm just saying that leap has a whole new expanded world once you spend some time trying it out <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
very well done Roo, hopefully 1 day we'll find the exact maths for leap.
i agree leap is best used in vents and in small spaces but is still effective in open ares albeit its alot harder to master.
its strange your test agaisnt HA with lvl 1 armour took away life aswell as armour, when i tested it briefly it ONLY took away armour (101 armour for 1 total leap).
after playing in many more games trying things casually ive found that leaping twice quickly then biting twice does a huge amount of dmg to buildings as the 2 leaps as doing dmg + the biting dmg BUT will drain energy very quickly even with adren.
anyways i think the basic rule of thumb for leap is:
if your in vents just leap as quicly as you can without biting as this will kill anything except high lvl HA in less then 1 second, but in open areas be carefull as you may need some enery for a leap to get away quickly just incase you dont kill them quickly enough.
A bit offtopic but I have noticed that a leap at least on a obs does so much damge so fast that the damage indicator on the obs laggs behind. IE you do a leap and see the obs helath drop after the leap has ended. Any one else noticed this? Could this make any differens for any thing?
BTW, I'm a bit slow in my head after grading exams so I cant count any more but how many leaps does it take to kill an TF?
<!--QuoteBegin--hamper+Mar 27 2003, 10:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (hamper @ Mar 27 2003, 10:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The server i play on has a plug-in which catches people who do the new leap exploit (leap/bite bound to one key to do double damage) and everytime i leap toward a marine and i am killed while in the air it shows up that i performed the leap exploit... it's annoying cause so many exploits in a certain period of time and you get a temp ban... anyone know anything about this? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought the leap exploit was leaping with no sound or energy loss meaing, very fast moving skulk with no sound.
Leap+bite isn't really that much of an issue.. I thought that was fixed in 1.03. Eh, even if not anyone slightly skilled can switch to bite as soon as they leap.
OK further to my last experiments, 290 armour heavy armour gets taken down to **103** armour after 1 full leap and dies on second leap.
More impressively, and thanks to Hatchet and Worf for this data,
a medpack spamming comm can save a marine being leaped. It's tough and will cost you a LOT of resources though:
1 leap did 88 touches. This was repeated 3 times.
This was calcuated by taking the marine with no HA down to 0 armour and medpacking him to 100 health. The comm then spammed medpacks while I leapt on the marine's head. The amount of damage therefore sustained in 1 individual leap was:
I still believe there is a dependance on FPS, and I still havent' done this, however with FPS at 100, the damage per leap is 352.
This also gives me values for armour absorption values of leap: 1 leap takes a HA at 210 down to 11. That is 199 damage to armour, which means the armour absorbs:
~43% damage at level 0 ~46% damage at level 1 ~47% damage at level 2 ~53% damage at level 3
these values are based on fps = 100 and leap attack only.
Thanks for your time, enjoy the figures, and go forth and leapify!
Your figures are out Roo. Small lesson on armour absorbtion.
HA takes 95% of all damage. It's total armour value goes up with upgrades but it's absorbtion doesn't. So 5% goes to health. The 95% is actually halved and then taken of the armour value.
Therefore...
If HA goes from 290 to 103 after one leap, leap actually deals...
<span style='color:red'>394 </span>
However, you later state that a HA went from 210 to 11, a difference of 199. So obviously I think theres a small amount of error with your leaps.
We can safely conclude however a full leap at 100 FPS deals ~ 350 - 400 damage.
The values I got were repeated on 2 different occasions, and it's also worth noting that in every single experiment, the number of touches I could determine was the same for a single leap. I wouldn't like to draw conclusions as to how much damage leap does from armour values alone, but ratehr from number of touches.
The most important point to note right now is that if you leap someone who is wearing heavy armour, their armour is the ONLY THING affected by the first leap. No damage is dealt until the armour is worn down (by leap, notice though this is not the case for bite etc, possible explanation in that leap only counts as 4 damage per touch and there is no averaging effect to allow for 95% absorption? not sure about this)
I would liek someone else to try this, leap on top of someone's head (pointing down, holding duck), and get them to tell you what aremour they're on after one lone leap. Experimental evidence is more conclusive than theory IMHO, after all it is by experiment that theories are disproved or not disproved...
I agree though, without any kind of FPS testing, it is impossible to tell with any certainty how leap and armour interact. I'm dubious that they are dealt with in a standard way, however, as given how much damage leap does, the armour simply CAN'T follow the disclosed rules (at least in the case of leap damage)
Just to confuse people, i'm on my brother's computer <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think you may be right in that leap is treated as seperate clumps of 4 damage, so it rounds up so all 4 damage going to a HA when you leap.
We still end up with odd figures though. Do you get 88 touches <b>every</b> single time ? Have you tried it in different ways from standing on their head ?
Your touch logs indicate 325 damage, but your 2 HA examples show 374 and 398 damage.
/me confused. I suppose its not the end of the world though <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
like ive said before, the dmg is between 300-400 but more likly to be near to 375.
anyway keep on testing as im still very interested.
btw ive started seeing alot more people using leap to now <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Leap IS fps based, yet another thing to tac onto things to be fixed in 1.1.
I did a little test, on a 1.04 game.
cl_showfps 1, fps_max 100 -> turret takes said number of leaps, just over 1
fps_max 19 (the minimum HL will run at) -> turret takes about one bar per FULL leap, about 12 leaps to kill a turret
At 100 fps, a turret will die in about 1 leap, just a slight amount more. At 19 fps, the same leap does only 1 bar of health PER LEAP to the turret. A high end computer, yet again, gives a huge advantage.
So I think the end has been reached, don't use leap unless you have a high end computer.
<!--QuoteBegin--Kaniran+Apr 8 2003, 04:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kaniran @ Apr 8 2003, 04:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Leap IS fps based, yet another thing to tac onto things to be fixed in 1.1.
I did a little test, on a 1.04 game.
cl_showfps 1, fps_max 100 -> turret takes said number of leaps, just over 1
fps_max 19 (the minimum HL will run at) -> turret takes about one bar per FULL leap, about 12 leaps to kill a turret
At 100 fps, a turret will die in about 1 leap, just a slight amount more. At 19 fps, the same leap does only 1 bar of health PER LEAP to the turret. A high end computer, yet again, gives a huge advantage.
So I think the end has been reached, don't use leap unless you have a high end computer. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is very, very bad.
Flayra is addressing this issue in 1.1 and I'm hopeful that we'll see a level playing field. I've only been leap killed once in the past 2 or 3 months (good one hatchet <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->), whereas I've done some horrific number of leaps in that time. I hope it's not because I was running my system at 100fps (I'm now down at 75 because I wanted to play with vsync on due to smoothness of gameplay) and other people had lower fps.
I may do some quantitative fps tests, but TBH waiting for the 1.1 fix is probably the best way to go. In the meantime, try leaping people if your fps value is 70 or over, and you should have no difficulty, especially in vents. Avoid leaping in areas with phase gates and lots of structures if you have a mid-low end gaming rig, as your damage will be much less in these areas because frame rate drops.
Aside from the vents thing, the high end computer thing, I do suggest trying to leap in areas such as long hallways, or even open areas if your tracking is very good.
You can give marines heart attacks as you leap to disrupt their aim and in the next instant leap up to them and bite them in half.
You cannot leap directly at them however, unless you reach them and bite them, or leap past them, because leaping directly at them but not reaching them is almost like running straight at them.
well thank you for that helpful insight <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The FPS thing I knew, but it kinda explains how I got pwnt in a pub the other day by leap, he just had a better computer then me... didn't know it was so powerful low end jp/lmg stand no chance even on the waste rafters apparently.
but even at 60fps you can deal a large amount of damage (enough to kill a non-HA in 1 leap I *THINK*).
The difficult part to leap is maintaining contact for the duration of the leap (hence rafters at waste are a 2 hive skulk's dream, or the cargo-viaduct vent on nothing etc etc (pretty much any vent))
someone had said something about HL engine detected when the 2 models are colliding, touching, so on.. if that is the case for what a "touch" is, then it probably would fall under FPS, or something very close to it.. on a slow computer i am sure that the engine wont be detecting those touches quite as fast, where as with a faster one, it can calculate them all much quicker, giving you more touches..not exactly FPS, but still relating to graphics card performance?
and, on a side note, i aim for marines, but switch to bite afterwords for the kill, mostly use leap to get into a marines base (like eclipse where everything is so far back from the doors) and to fly by those red walls of mines (well timed leap with celerity can get through those most of the time without getting hit, and annoying the marines greatly!) furthermore, using leap as a weapon on buildings is only semi usefull.. if your planning on staying at the base for a lil bit, its a waste .. you burn all your adren on 2 leaps, even with adren 3 its a few seconds to get it back, and as a skulk, a few seconds can usually be the difference, someone said 2 leaps to kill an observ, what is it like 5-6 bites? and you can do all that with some nice drive by biting:D
<!--QuoteBegin--Wimpy+May 21 2003, 01:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wimpy @ May 21 2003, 01:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> someone had said something about HL engine detected when the 2 models are colliding, touching, so on.. if that is the case for what a "touch" is, then it probably would fall under FPS, or something very close to it.. on a slow computer i am sure that the engine wont be detecting those touches quite as fast, where as with a faster one, it can calculate them all much quicker, giving you more touches..not exactly FPS, but still relating to graphics card performance?
and, on a side note, i aim for marines, but switch to bite afterwords for the kill, mostly use leap to get into a marines base (like eclipse where everything is so far back from the doors) and to fly by those red walls of mines (well timed leap with celerity can get through those most of the time without getting hit, and annoying the marines greatly!) furthermore, using leap as a weapon on buildings is only semi usefull.. if your planning on staying at the base for a lil bit, its a waste .. you burn all your adren on 2 leaps, even with adren 3 its a few seconds to get it back, and as a skulk, a few seconds can usually be the difference, someone said 2 leaps to kill an observ, what is it like 5-6 bites? and you can do all that with some nice drive by biting:D <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ... yeah OK, I get adrenaline and leap three times, then bite about 4 times, then leap again, then bite 4 times, then leap etc etc. You'll kill structures a LOT faster this way with a decent spec machine.
"Touches" ARE directly linked to fps, as are many other things in NS 1.04. Luckily that is being fixed in 1.1, though that won't stop people still playing at 60 fps because they don't realise their monitor is running at that and they haven't unlocked the other refresh rates in XP/2k.
I have my fps at 110 (fps_max 110), but it's only running at 85 fps due to my refresh rate. Do I need to turn off vsync to get the full effect or does it only need to have an internal setting of 100 or so?
wow this came back....... um i have 85 fps and i do great.. so leave it. vsyc removes tearing which makes the game better when moving around and its eaisier to keep track of the enemy. 85 is all you need..
Comments
Trials were conducted by standing on the head of a player in heavy armour with level 0 1 2 and 3 upgrades to armour.
I tried both adrenaline and celerity (to ensure that the difference in speed does NOT affect difference in touches per leap).
1 "tick" = L 04/02/2003 - 09:28:34: "Roo" attacked "The Nalic" with "leap" (damage "4")
In all cases, the only recorded lines in the log file are the DAMAGE TO THE MARINE'S HEALTH:
Number of ticks recorded in log file: 25 = 100 damage.
time for kill from first leap damage in log file: <1s
This tells us that we have to rely on the armour left after an entire leap, and that in turn should give the number of ticks per leap, depending on whether armour takes all damage or acts even a little like carapace...
<span style='color:red'>1) Level 0 ARMOUR 100HP and 210ARM </span>
leap 1 takes HA down to 11 armour and 100 health.
leap 2 kills HA
<span style='color:red'>2) LEVEL 1 ARMOUR 100HP, 230ARM </span>
leap 1 takes HA down to 43 and 100 health.
leap 2 kills HA
<span style='color:red'>2) LEVEL 2 ARMOUR 100HP, 260ARM </span>
leap 1 takes HA down to 75 and 100 health.
leap 2 kills HA
<span style='color:red'>2) LEVEL 3 ARMOUR 100HP, 290ARM </span>
leap 1 takes HA down to XX and 100 health.
(IT IS NOT YET KNOWN IF LEAP 2 KILLS HA or if a third is required... see further work)
All results are in duplicate.
<span style='color:blue'> Discussion</span>
clearly an ODD numbered value for armour after an entire leap (based on n*4) means that armour must absorb some damage without reducing the armour value by the full amount:
Level 0 damage to armour in 1 leap = 199 (0.5%)
Level 1 damage to armour in 1 leap = 187 (6.5%)
Level 2 damage to armour in 1 leap = 185 (7.5%)
Level 3 damage to armour in 1 leap = 182 (9%)
The percentages by the side are based on 200 damage per leap (50 touches per leap - ASSUMPTION!) and are the percentage damage absorbance of having armour (amount of damage NOT recorded to armour).
IT IS NOT POSSIBLE to determine from this trial how many touches one leap does, as all that is recorded are 25 leap hits per kill.
IF, however the marine has 108 armour left after a leap (on level3), then a second leap will not kill the marine if the number of touches is LESS THAN 52 per leap. I cannot state this with any absolute certainty as yet, as the third experiment needs to be repeated first.
Finally, leaping many times in succession DOES add up all the potential touches and the marine will die quicker. This has already been pretty much established anyway.
Leap is very difficult to use correctly. It can be used to greatest effect in vents (far quicker at destroying marines than bite!), but be very careful in entering into open area fights with marines. As I've said before, trapping them against walls, in corners - THOSE are the places leap kills are most easily obtained.
<span style='color:purple'>Further Experiments </span>
This final one (level 3) needs to be done again. I didn't realise when I started the experiment that the only logged contacts are those that damage <b>health</b>. In view of this, level 3 armour should be done again to determine the value of XX (predicted value from the above data = 108)
A good next experiment would be to repeat the above, but with a commander medpack spamming the marine. HA need not be used, but may be useful for aiding the timing of medpack dropping. by prolonging the life of a marine it may be possible to identify the exact number of touches one leap can achieve. I am aware that this may also be an FPS issue, and I will conduct a separate experiment on that too, hoping that by setting max_fps, the desired effect is obtained.
So there it is, plenty more to do, but a taster is there. My FEELING is that the leap does 50 touches PER LEAP. I have fps at 100 though and will check to see if that can affect this tentative value.
Enjoy
Roo
(originally posted by SoulSkorpion)
Sorry to take things back ON topic...
I never use leap to kill things. That's not what leap is best used for, IMHO. Use it to dodge and to close the distance, wait for the marine to drain their clip, and finish with bite. Bite is very efficient; there's nothing wrong with using leap only for propelling yourself.
And I have to say, in the vent to cargo bay (ns_nothing), leap > ha/hmg and leap > jp/hmg
The number of leap kills I have in that vent is quite unfeasibly large, as the marines think their HMG is going to pwn my little skulky bottom. 2 leaps makes you close down the distance VERY quickly (especially up that slope if they're at the top). By that point you'll be on half health if they are decent, 3/4 to full if they're not. The kill takes < 1/2 second after that, arguably slightly more for HA.
Easy peasy <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
But yeah there's nothing WRONG with using leap JUST to close down distance, I'm just saying that leap has a whole new expanded world once you spend some time trying it out <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Roo
i agree leap is best used in vents and in small spaces but is still effective in open ares albeit its alot harder to master.
its strange your test agaisnt HA with lvl 1 armour took away life aswell as armour, when i tested it briefly it ONLY took away armour (101 armour for 1 total leap).
after playing in many more games trying things casually ive found that leaping twice quickly then biting twice does a huge amount of dmg to buildings as the 2 leaps as doing dmg + the biting dmg BUT will drain energy very quickly even with adren.
anyways i think the basic rule of thumb for leap is:
if your in vents just leap as quicly as you can without biting as this will kill anything except high lvl HA in less then 1 second, but in open areas be carefull as you may need some enery for a leap to get away quickly just incase you dont kill them quickly enough.
IE you do a leap and see the obs helath drop after the leap has ended.
Any one else noticed this?
Could this make any differens for any thing?
BTW, I'm a bit slow in my head after grading exams so I cant count any more but how many leaps does it take to kill an TF?
I thought the leap exploit was leaping with no sound or energy loss meaing, very fast moving skulk with no sound.
Leap+bite isn't really that much of an issue.. I thought that was fixed in 1.03. Eh, even if not anyone slightly skilled can switch to bite as soon as they leap.
More impressively, and thanks to Hatchet and Worf for this data,
a medpack spamming comm can save a marine being leaped. It's tough and will cost you a LOT of resources though:
1 leap did 88 touches. This was repeated 3 times.
This was calcuated by taking the marine with no HA down to 0 armour and medpacking him to 100 health. The comm then spammed medpacks while I leapt on the marine's head. The amount of damage therefore sustained in 1 individual leap was:
<drum roll>
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>352</span></span>
I still believe there is a dependance on FPS, and I still havent' done this, however with FPS at 100, the damage per leap is 352.
This also gives me values for armour absorption values of leap: 1 leap takes a HA at 210 down to 11. That is 199 damage to armour, which means the armour absorbs:
~43% damage at level 0
~46% damage at level 1
~47% damage at level 2
~53% damage at level 3
these values are based on fps = 100 and leap attack only.
Thanks for your time, enjoy the figures, and go forth and leapify!
Roo
HA takes 95% of all damage. It's total armour value goes up with upgrades but it's absorbtion doesn't. So 5% goes to health. The 95% is actually halved and then taken of the armour value.
Therefore...
If HA goes from 290 to 103 after one leap, leap actually deals...
<span style='color:red'>394 </span>
However, you later state that a HA went from 210 to 11, a difference of 199. So obviously I think theres a small amount of error with your leaps.
We can safely conclude however a full leap at 100 FPS deals ~ 350 - 400 damage.
The most important point to note right now is that if you leap someone who is wearing heavy armour, their armour is the ONLY THING affected by the first leap. No damage is dealt until the armour is worn down (by leap, notice though this is not the case for bite etc, possible explanation in that leap only counts as 4 damage per touch and there is no averaging effect to allow for 95% absorption? not sure about this)
I would liek someone else to try this, leap on top of someone's head (pointing down, holding duck), and get them to tell you what aremour they're on after one lone leap. Experimental evidence is more conclusive than theory IMHO, after all it is by experiment that theories are disproved or not disproved...
I agree though, without any kind of FPS testing, it is impossible to tell with any certainty how leap and armour interact. I'm dubious that they are dealt with in a standard way, however, as given how much damage leap does, the armour simply CAN'T follow the disclosed rules (at least in the case of leap damage)
Roo
I think you may be right in that leap is treated as seperate clumps of 4 damage, so it rounds up so all 4 damage going to a HA when you leap.
We still end up with odd figures though. Do you get 88 touches <b>every</b> single time ? Have you tried it in different ways from standing on their head ?
Your touch logs indicate 325 damage, but your 2 HA examples show 374 and 398 damage.
/me confused. I suppose its not the end of the world though <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
-_Phoenix_-
anyway keep on testing as im still very interested.
btw ive started seeing alot more people using leap to now <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I did a little test, on a 1.04 game.
cl_showfps 1, fps_max 100 -> turret takes said number of leaps, just over 1
fps_max 19 (the minimum HL will run at) -> turret takes about one bar per FULL leap, about 12 leaps to kill a turret
At 100 fps, a turret will die in about 1 leap, just a slight amount more. At 19 fps, the same leap does only 1 bar of health PER LEAP to the turret. A high end computer, yet again, gives a huge advantage.
So I think the end has been reached, don't use leap unless you have a high end computer.
I did a little test, on a 1.04 game.
cl_showfps 1, fps_max 100 -> turret takes said number of leaps, just over 1
fps_max 19 (the minimum HL will run at) -> turret takes about one bar per FULL leap, about 12 leaps to kill a turret
At 100 fps, a turret will die in about 1 leap, just a slight amount more. At 19 fps, the same leap does only 1 bar of health PER LEAP to the turret. A high end computer, yet again, gives a huge advantage.
So I think the end has been reached, don't use leap unless you have a high end computer. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is very, very bad.
Flayra is addressing this issue in 1.1 and I'm hopeful that we'll see a level playing field. I've only been leap killed once in the past 2 or 3 months (good one hatchet <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->), whereas I've done some horrific number of leaps in that time. I hope it's not because I was running my system at 100fps (I'm now down at 75 because I wanted to play with vsync on due to smoothness of gameplay) and other people had lower fps.
I may do some quantitative fps tests, but TBH waiting for the 1.1 fix is probably the best way to go. In the meantime, try leaping people if your fps value is 70 or over, and you should have no difficulty, especially in vents. Avoid leaping in areas with phase gates and lots of structures if you have a mid-low end gaming rig, as your damage will be much less in these areas because frame rate drops.
Roo
You can give marines heart attacks as you leap to disrupt their aim and in the next instant leap up to them and bite them in half.
You cannot leap directly at them however, unless you reach them and bite them, or leap past them, because leaping directly at them but not reaching them is almost like running straight at them.
The difficult part to leap is maintaining contact for the duration of the leap (hence rafters at waste are a 2 hive skulk's dream, or the cargo-viaduct vent on nothing etc etc (pretty much any vent))
Roo
Does this work if you leap when next a marine?
If this is the case, this game is screwed.
and, on a side note, i aim for marines, but switch to bite afterwords for the kill, mostly use leap to get into a marines base (like eclipse where everything is so far back from the doors) and to fly by those red walls of mines (well timed leap with celerity can get through those most of the time without getting hit, and annoying the marines greatly!) furthermore, using leap as a weapon on buildings is only semi usefull.. if your planning on staying at the base for a lil bit, its a waste .. you burn all your adren on 2 leaps, even with adren 3 its a few seconds to get it back, and as a skulk, a few seconds can usually be the difference, someone said 2 leaps to kill an observ, what is it like 5-6 bites? and you can do all that with some nice drive by biting:D
and, on a side note, i aim for marines, but switch to bite afterwords for the kill, mostly use leap to get into a marines base (like eclipse where everything is so far back from the doors) and to fly by those red walls of mines (well timed leap with celerity can get through those most of the time without getting hit, and annoying the marines greatly!) furthermore, using leap as a weapon on buildings is only semi usefull.. if your planning on staying at the base for a lil bit, its a waste .. you burn all your adren on 2 leaps, even with adren 3 its a few seconds to get it back, and as a skulk, a few seconds can usually be the difference, someone said 2 leaps to kill an observ, what is it like 5-6 bites? and you can do all that with some nice drive by biting:D <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
... yeah OK, I get adrenaline and leap three times, then bite about 4 times, then leap again, then bite 4 times, then leap etc etc. You'll kill structures a LOT faster this way with a decent spec machine.
"Touches" ARE directly linked to fps, as are many other things in NS 1.04. Luckily that is being fixed in 1.1, though that won't stop people still playing at 60 fps because they don't realise their monitor is running at that and they haven't unlocked the other refresh rates in XP/2k.
Read my posts, I've explained leap fully.
See your post date JmsBnd007?
July 1.
See the reply above it?
May 31.
This topic was dead. Please don't practice Topic Necromancy. :-)
Especially since your post had nothing to do with leap and could have been posted in the tech support forum :-)