<!--QuoteBegin--mndeg+Nov 24 2002, 09:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mndeg @ Nov 24 2002, 09:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->eww lithtech is ugly get q4 doom3 engine!!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually the new LithTech engine kicks arse, they are using it in the Tron 2 game or whatever, go look for screen shots. mmm Realistic water in the new James Bond games too, not even DirectX 8 either, it's hardware T&L
As for commander mode, that was announced eons ago. If anything, NS took the idea from them. There was also going to be a "teacher" class that would see another players view and have to ability to point out specific things to them via a laser pointer-ish thing.
Oh yes, scratching up and reviving these old dead topics is WAY more productive. Great call NZ.
Well, to bring this topic into the year 2003, lets recap what we have seen. HL2 WILL be released this year, and for those that had speculated on the eye-popping graphics, well I think the EYES have it. We also now know that TF2 and the new CS will also run on the HL2 engine.
Now, back to <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=32462' target='_blank'>the topic that was so rudely locked:</a>
I think Revenge brought up the most important point: Keeping the community together through the transition (if there is one). That is a tricky proposition at best. At some point the descision has to be made that for the Mod to evolve (excuse the pun), it will have to transition to a higher engine (be it HL2, UT2003, or D3), and at point some in the community will be left behind. Lets face it, none of those engines or ANY new engine is going to support software mode or "low-end" pcs. Maybe a poll of the NS community, much like the one conducted by gamespy is in order, to find out just where the community is at.
On the other hand, PC hardware has never been so cheap, and a player could upgrade to 700mhz and 3D card (the bare minimum) for less than $400. So at what point do you stop halting the progress of the Mod to nurse those who can't make the upgrade.
At the same time, remember that having NS converted to HL2 even 4 months after the release is pretty unrealistic. I wouldn't be surprised if it was more like a year, even with the NS crew starting the day they leave the Mod expo (if they go). So, the community would have time to upgrade and get ready for what I beleive will be "The Ultimate Badness of NS2".
GSH
PS - Just because a topic has been discussed before doesn't mean that everything was said, and that it should never be discussed again.
I believe that alot of the important information if you dont want to search for everything about TF2 can be found at www.lgsocentral.com we have a very informative individual in our clan that keeps us updated on all information with upcoming events. sometimes it seems he has info on things that are not even released yet. IMO i believe that he works for microsoft, or some type of gaming facility. i am not sure of these things but like i said he is very informative, so if you would like to visit the site, there is a discussion on all diff types of gaming and computer issues. Maybe this can answer some of your questions, if it doesnt i appologize. Hope this may help, Lata Proph!
Three friends at work and I went Dutch on an IGN Insider account. The 20 minutes of Half-Life 2 footage were worth the $5 for me. Oh my, it was awesome. I messaged my friend that works across campus and he came over and viddied it with me a second time. The gravity gun rocks!
Besides all that, the Source engine is supposed to be ridiculously easy to work with.
<!--QuoteBegin--Demerzel+Nov 24 2002, 05:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Demerzel @ Nov 24 2002, 05:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> so many people are confusing TF2 and HL2 - the former will be multiplayer and the latter will be the singleplayer ( + multiplayer ) sequel to Half-Life. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> My speculation, along with many others, is that TF2 will be one of the multiplayer components of HL2. Valve couldn't really make money off TF2 at this point, with a thousand other high-production value team-based squad shooters out. Same story as with TFC. I bet we see TF2 as a bundled mod with HL2.
<!--QuoteBegin--Owl Force Omega+May 19 2003, 03:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Owl Force Omega @ May 19 2003, 03:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The 20 minutes of Half-Life 2 footage were worth the $5 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> you had to pay? why did u just go to <a href='http://www.halflife2.net/' target='_blank'>http://www.halflife2.net/</a> they got videos from e3 done by gamespot (that were for gamespot subscribers only) that has such stuff as your describing
Ok I skimmed the other posts and none of you seemed to get it.
The reason they stopped releasing info on TF2 is because the decited they would use the new engine (now called Source engine) that Half-Life 2 also uses. They wernt ready to announce HL2 yet so they had to stop talking about and showing TF2 [completly] to avoid people picking up on the fact that it uses the same [new] engine as HL2. They also said that now that HL2 is public knowledge, you can expect more TF2 details to popup soon. You have to remember though, they are in full development mode for HL2 right know though so I doubt much new TF2 info will pop up untill HL2 nears completion.
Also, something to think about; As you all know, Valve has been going around buying the rights to mods (CS, TFCand DOD right know) and they said that (so far) CS2 will be its own game. It will NOT be a mod. So even if you buy HL2, and you want CS2, you will still have to buy CS2 seperatly. My guess is the same thing will happen with DOD. We already know TF2 is its own game. I also speculate that NS will be next up on valves list of "mods to buy" considering its popularity.
I personally hope that they dont because I perfer to see mods remain mods so they can move between engines freely. For example, CS and DOD will never be a mods again, of course there will always be knockoffs that arnt near as good. While the source engine is a good engine, and I'm sure NS would be just as good on it, I think the Doom 3 engine would be better if NS where to move on. The true lighting would make aliens so much more dangerous. (Skulks in pitch black shadows anyone? *pisses pants*)
theres some info and my thoughts for you all. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
hmmm Doom 3 was made for lighting and horror. Im sure the dev team would rather have a engine that creates realistic environments then a horror game.... there are younger players here. why do u think the developers discourge dead bodies... it creates a horror element which the dev's dont want.... I SMELL A RESURRECTION.... there are other threads on this same stuff btw.... dont just bring up old topics <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
They must have pulled that video, I can't seem to find it at the site you linked to.
Just because Valve wants it, doesn't mean they get it. It would still be up to Flay and crew to sell the rights to NS to Valve. On the other hand, could you really blame them if they did?
Also, I've heard (but don't know, really) that the Doom3 engine is hard to code for. Any backing to that rumor?
Bah, the Doom3 engine has nothing on the Source engine as far as environment interactivity. Imagine, you are walking down a wallway as a rine and ya hear skulk coming... so ya grab a piece of bulkhead laying on the floor and use it as a shield as the skulk leaps at ya, then ya squish him with it.. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ya can't do that in Doom3.
Now don't get me wrong, I think the Doom3 engine will be great, and maybe more detailed, but comparing the look of both from their E3 trailers, I think that HL2 looks far better than Doom 3 in some cases. Doom3 probably lends itself more to dark hallways and the general environment of NS, but I'd hate to see the mod leave the HL community... and environmental interactivity... I want that in my NS.
Seriously, think about it, this would add sooo much more replayability with random pysics you could have a shelf full of barrels fall when u shot it and the barrels fly everywhere, hurting people and creating moveable barriers. Ya could also go on scavenger hunts for stuff to barricade the doors with instead of having to CC spam.
Frost - "Looks like they baracaded the entrances at both ends...but it didn't hold.." Hicks - "A g#dd@m last stand."
Now think of the marines grabbing stuff to pile up at a door and an onos hits the baracade at a full run, blasting stuff outwards and flinging marines like rag dolls. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Also, i'm pretty sure The Source engine will be able to do Dark & Spooky in spades.
Here's a big question: At that point would a lack of...how shall we say..."Realistic Death Animations" actually detract from the ambience of the game, especially seeing what The Source engine can acomplish in that area.
Imagine instead of the fade swatting a marine until the marine "faints", imagine that the razor sharp claws slash at the armor leaving huge gashes until the killing blow actually plunges through the marine. The second claw comes down, plunges though, and now the fade rips the marine in half. It's eyes now roll towards you and then it's body folllows. Blood drips off the whole front of the beast as it closes the distance with blinding speed. Your a second from death when a grenade hits the fade right in the chest and blows it into six big twitching chunks (and knocking you against the wall behind you). It's eyes rolling, and jaws snapping as it's severed head tries to regain control of a body it's no longer attached to.
THAT'S when its time to clean your shorts. All that is possible with The Source, right down to the ripple in the air as it compresses in front of the concusion from the grenade. All that and more.
I know what I'm saying goes straight against the doctrine of NS: "The mood and tention over blood and gore" doctrine. But, quite frankly, at some point, a lack of realism is just that: A lack of realism, and IMO a detriment to the emersion of the game. I'm pretty sure that HL does, and HL2 will, sport the big M. M is for Mature, as in, not for kids. If you make NS for kids, then your making a mod for an audience who shouldn't even have access to the driving engine anyway. I know that in this world parents don't monitor what their kids watch and store atendants don't care who they sell "Games" to, but at what point do you decide thats your responsibility. The best thing you could do is make a mod so intense that a little kid pees his pants. That sure would get your mod on the 10 o'clock news <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> You know what they say, There's no such thing as bad press.
GSH
In the words of Goerge C Scott as General Patton: "When I want it to stick, I give it to 'em loud and dirty, that way they'll rememeber."
yeah...so you know Doom 3 also has a physics engine. Is it as powerful as HL2? I dont think so, but honestly I can't say for sure. No one has messed with it much to show it off. The lighting has been the big selling point for the Doom 3 engine. If you download that doom 3 alpha floating around, you will see that lots of stuff have physics. Boxes, corpses...ect.
And whos to say a gravity gun cant be coded in. hehe
Comments
get q4 doom3 engine!!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually the new LithTech engine kicks arse, they are using it in the Tron 2 game or whatever, go look for screen shots. mmm Realistic water in the new James Bond games too, not even DirectX 8 either, it's hardware T&L
As for commander mode, that was announced eons ago. If anything, NS took the idea from them. There was also going to be a "teacher" class that would see another players view and have to ability to point out specific things to them via a laser pointer-ish thing.
Well, to bring this topic into the year 2003, lets recap what we have seen. HL2 WILL be released this year, and for those that had speculated on the eye-popping graphics, well I think the EYES have it. We also now know that TF2 and the new CS will also run on the HL2 engine.
Now, back to <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=32462' target='_blank'>the topic that was so rudely locked:</a>
I think Revenge brought up the most important point: Keeping the community together through the transition (if there is one). That is a tricky proposition at best. At some point the descision has to be made that for the Mod to evolve (excuse the pun), it will have to transition to a higher engine (be it HL2, UT2003, or D3), and at point some in the community will be left behind. Lets face it, none of those engines or ANY new engine is going to support software mode or "low-end" pcs. Maybe a poll of the NS community, much like the one conducted by gamespy is in order, to find out just where the community is at.
On the other hand, PC hardware has never been so cheap, and a player could upgrade to 700mhz and 3D card (the bare minimum) for less than $400. So at what point do you stop halting the progress of the Mod to nurse those who can't make the upgrade.
At the same time, remember that having NS converted to HL2 even 4 months after the release is pretty unrealistic. I wouldn't be surprised if it was more like a year, even with the NS crew starting the day they leave the Mod expo (if they go). So, the community would have time to upgrade and get ready for what I beleive will be "The Ultimate Badness of NS2".
GSH
PS - Just because a topic has been discussed before doesn't mean that everything was said, and that it should never be discussed again.
Besides all that, the Source engine is supposed to be ridiculously easy to work with.
My speculation, along with many others, is that TF2 will be one of the multiplayer components of HL2. Valve couldn't really make money off TF2 at this point, with a thousand other high-production value team-based squad shooters out. Same story as with TFC. I bet we see TF2 as a bundled mod with HL2.
you had to pay? why did u just go to <a href='http://www.halflife2.net/' target='_blank'>http://www.halflife2.net/</a> they got videos from e3 done by gamespot (that were for gamespot subscribers only) that has such stuff as your describing
The reason they stopped releasing info on TF2 is because the decited they would use the new engine (now called Source engine) that Half-Life 2 also uses. They wernt ready to announce HL2 yet so they had to stop talking about and showing TF2 [completly] to avoid people picking up on the fact that it uses the same [new] engine as HL2. They also said that now that HL2 is public knowledge, you can expect more TF2 details to popup soon. You have to remember though, they are in full development mode for HL2 right know though so I doubt much new TF2 info will pop up untill HL2 nears completion.
Also, something to think about; As you all know, Valve has been going around buying the rights to mods (CS, TFCand DOD right know) and they said that (so far) CS2 will be its own game. It will NOT be a mod. So even if you buy HL2, and you want CS2, you will still have to buy CS2 seperatly. My guess is the same thing will happen with DOD. We already know TF2 is its own game. I also speculate that NS will be next up on valves list of "mods to buy" considering its popularity.
I personally hope that they dont because I perfer to see mods remain mods so they can move between engines freely. For example, CS and DOD will never be a mods again, of course there will always be knockoffs that arnt near as good. While the source engine is a good engine, and I'm sure NS would be just as good on it, I think the Doom 3 engine would be better if NS where to move on. The true lighting would make aliens so much more dangerous. (Skulks in pitch black shadows anyone? *pisses pants*)
theres some info and my thoughts for you all. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Just because Valve wants it, doesn't mean they get it. It would still be up to Flay and crew to sell the rights to NS to Valve. On the other hand, could you really blame them if they did?
Also, I've heard (but don't know, really) that the Doom3 engine is hard to code for. Any backing to that rumor?
GSH
Now don't get me wrong, I think the Doom3 engine will be great, and maybe more detailed, but comparing the look of both from their E3 trailers, I think that HL2 looks far better than Doom 3 in some cases. Doom3 probably lends itself more to dark hallways and the general environment of NS, but I'd hate to see the mod leave the HL community... and environmental interactivity... I want that in my NS.
Seriously, think about it, this would add sooo much more replayability with random pysics you could have a shelf full of barrels fall when u shot it and the barrels fly everywhere, hurting people and creating moveable barriers. Ya could also go on scavenger hunts for stuff to barricade the doors with instead of having to CC spam.
And also imagine rines with dune buggies! 0_o
Frost - "Looks like they baracaded the entrances at both ends...but it didn't hold.."
Hicks - "A g#dd@m last stand."
Now think of the marines grabbing stuff to pile up at a door and an onos hits the baracade at a full run, blasting stuff outwards and flinging marines like rag dolls. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Also, i'm pretty sure The Source engine will be able to do Dark & Spooky in spades.
Here's a big question: At that point would a lack of...how shall we say..."Realistic Death Animations" actually detract from the ambience of the game, especially seeing what The Source engine can acomplish in that area.
Imagine instead of the fade swatting a marine until the marine "faints", imagine that the razor sharp claws slash at the armor leaving huge gashes until the killing blow actually plunges through the marine. The second claw comes down, plunges though, and now the fade rips the marine in half. It's eyes now roll towards you and then it's body folllows. Blood drips off the whole front of the beast as it closes the distance with blinding speed. Your a second from death when a grenade hits the fade right in the chest and blows it into six big twitching chunks (and knocking you against the wall behind you). It's eyes rolling, and jaws snapping as it's severed head tries to regain control of a body it's no longer attached to.
THAT'S when its time to clean your shorts. All that is possible with The Source, right down to the ripple in the air as it compresses in front of the concusion from the grenade. All that and more.
I know what I'm saying goes straight against the doctrine of NS: "The mood and tention over blood and gore" doctrine. But, quite frankly, at some point, a lack of realism is just that: A lack of realism, and IMO a detriment to the emersion of the game. I'm pretty sure that HL does, and HL2 will, sport the big M. M is for Mature, as in, not for kids. If you make NS for kids, then your making a mod for an audience who shouldn't even have access to the driving engine anyway. I know that in this world parents don't monitor what their kids watch and store atendants don't care who they sell "Games" to, but at what point do you decide thats your responsibility. The best thing you could do is make a mod so intense that a little kid pees his pants. That sure would get your mod on the 10 o'clock news <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> You know what they say, There's no such thing as bad press.
GSH
In the words of Goerge C Scott as General Patton: "When I want it to stick, I give it to 'em loud and dirty, that way they'll rememeber."
And whos to say a gravity gun cant be coded in. hehe