What It Is To Command.
Thanatos
Join Date: 2003-02-05 Member: 13138Members
Join Date: 2003-02-05 Member: 13138Members
<div class="IPBDescription">And why people say it is so hard.</div> I have played this game since the day it was released. But I have never really spent much time in the command chair. Usually because there allways seem to be someone who takes on the role real quick and who seems to know what he is doing. Sure, I have taken command to fill the gap when relocating or during those last stands when the original commander just gave up.
Last night I took on the chair from the beginning for the first time (no one else would). And it was a pain.
I´m no rookie at this game and I know most strategys by heart but to actually be in the chair was no easy task.
I used a common 2 hive lockdown and upgrade startegy. This is very easy on paper and a well know style of play. I had good players who followed orders. I announced my overall plan right from the beginning and they showed remarkable skill in sticking with it. Sometimes they secured areas vital for this plan way before I had begun to think about it being the next step. But it still was a pain.
And this is why. As we expanded my head slowly started to hurt from having to keep an eye on all the aspects of what we were doing. Is the hive still secure? Is the base in danger? Do I have enough resources to upgrade or will I have to build a new phasegate anytime soon?
These are common questions for people who play RTS games alot (which I do) but there is another issue aswell. My marines were competent and eager to win. This meant that sometimes they decided it was safe to expand without telling me. I, on the other hand, was busy elsewhere and suddenly had to be in two places at the same time. This is were the panic started to kick in. Explaining to the marines why they shouldn´t move out would have taken too long. So I tried to be at several places at once. And when I failed, the thought of being blamed for losing the game started to get to me.
As it turns out we won. A few minutes before we took the last hive my game crashed on me and I had to reconnect. When I got back on they had a diffrent commander who politely asked if I wanted the chair back. I declined for 3 reasons.
1: The little time it took for me to restart and reconnect was enough to make me lose oversight of the situation.
2:We were almost at their last hive and victory was only a few minutes away.
3:I was actually happy to not be in the chair because the last 20 minutes had felt like defusing a bomb during a snowstorm at night.(the first 20 minutes however were pretty ok)
I´m mostly posting this because some people I have talked to has complained alot about how it sux being commander. How people don´t do what they are told and how they allways blame the commander when they lose.
Yes. The commander very often gets blamed for a loss. But it´s only a game and I think most peole can live with such accusations. As for players not following orders. well, they usually do follow orders. But it´s not the only thing they do and thats the problem. When not having a way point or an order they get bored and try to help their team in their own way. Wich almost never is the way the commander had in mind.
I found that instead of trying to get people to where I wanted them to be, I adapted the plan to where they currenlty were. And since they knew the basic plan and wanted to win it usually worked out.
Now I´m off to try and work up enough confidence to get in that chair again. It actually was really fun, but in a different way.
Thanatos.
Last night I took on the chair from the beginning for the first time (no one else would). And it was a pain.
I´m no rookie at this game and I know most strategys by heart but to actually be in the chair was no easy task.
I used a common 2 hive lockdown and upgrade startegy. This is very easy on paper and a well know style of play. I had good players who followed orders. I announced my overall plan right from the beginning and they showed remarkable skill in sticking with it. Sometimes they secured areas vital for this plan way before I had begun to think about it being the next step. But it still was a pain.
And this is why. As we expanded my head slowly started to hurt from having to keep an eye on all the aspects of what we were doing. Is the hive still secure? Is the base in danger? Do I have enough resources to upgrade or will I have to build a new phasegate anytime soon?
These are common questions for people who play RTS games alot (which I do) but there is another issue aswell. My marines were competent and eager to win. This meant that sometimes they decided it was safe to expand without telling me. I, on the other hand, was busy elsewhere and suddenly had to be in two places at the same time. This is were the panic started to kick in. Explaining to the marines why they shouldn´t move out would have taken too long. So I tried to be at several places at once. And when I failed, the thought of being blamed for losing the game started to get to me.
As it turns out we won. A few minutes before we took the last hive my game crashed on me and I had to reconnect. When I got back on they had a diffrent commander who politely asked if I wanted the chair back. I declined for 3 reasons.
1: The little time it took for me to restart and reconnect was enough to make me lose oversight of the situation.
2:We were almost at their last hive and victory was only a few minutes away.
3:I was actually happy to not be in the chair because the last 20 minutes had felt like defusing a bomb during a snowstorm at night.(the first 20 minutes however were pretty ok)
I´m mostly posting this because some people I have talked to has complained alot about how it sux being commander. How people don´t do what they are told and how they allways blame the commander when they lose.
Yes. The commander very often gets blamed for a loss. But it´s only a game and I think most peole can live with such accusations. As for players not following orders. well, they usually do follow orders. But it´s not the only thing they do and thats the problem. When not having a way point or an order they get bored and try to help their team in their own way. Wich almost never is the way the commander had in mind.
I found that instead of trying to get people to where I wanted them to be, I adapted the plan to where they currenlty were. And since they knew the basic plan and wanted to win it usually worked out.
Now I´m off to try and work up enough confidence to get in that chair again. It actually was really fun, but in a different way.
Thanatos.
Comments
I tried to comm today , and successfully relocated to Subspace Array on Nancy (aliens didn't oppose a really strong resistance at first) thanks to a few motivated marines. We then secured Port Engine and I dropped a phase and TF here. As I was recycling the first base I thought we would win the game... spreading turrets and medpacks on the corridors well defended by the said marines. I added a few buildings , then noticed the 1rst chair was under attack , so I tried teleporting to subspace the harsh way (fighting the skulk...) then realized that IPs were taken down !... It was quite a massacre but someone saved the team. Port Engine still had phase but wasn't secure... then skulks felt they were going to win , and removed it (nodes were pretty monopolyzed by them too). Jetpacks , hmgs and GLs made them keep their distances , but Port Engine was lost. The best marines were too scattered (I think 2 defending the corridors and 1 holding the Mess Hall position) to reach the siege point. Then fades came in... and we were slowly crushed. GG.
You can make only a few errors as comm before you lose...
its the same with aliens. if your team loses and you were gorge, chances are, you will get the blame.
people need a scapegoat.
that scapegoat is you.
live with it
Always keep that in mind.
If you've got a good bunch of marines who stick together (Thats a crucial part), you're chance of survival and victory are very high.
On the other hand, if you've got a couple of rambos on your team.... well it only takes 2 or 3 to screw everything up.
You also have to keep in touch with all the latest strategies.
When NS started out, it was building a TF as soon as possible.
Now, it's who can secure hive points or key areas the earliest.
That, and your fellow marines, who will ask you to do stuff their way, will not like it and most likely eject you or simply get eaten.
Keeping up to date is very important.
Personnaly, I love commanding. When i win a game (Without the aliens F4ing out), i feels AWESOME.
But if im stuck with **** ups who want their HMG and JP all the time and not playing as a team, i get angry and...
sometimes i just wanna recycle everything in sight, spawn half a dozen CC to loose all the res we've got and change servers.
But thats only on rare occasions! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
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Gorges have this kind of problem too... since gorges don't really decide what the other skulks are up to (theses tend to work as a team) you have to obey the skulks orders or get flammed to no end. Exemple : when you're tired of similar def-move-sens games , and try to build sensory first. Expect a rain of whines. You can be called a noob or the like... most of your team then treats you with a condescending attitude , as "defense = victory" ( so NS is only about winning ? why not F4 when losing then <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> ) and don't stop giving orders throughout the game. If the team loses for any reason you're guarranteed to have lot and lots of flames.
What's strange is that people aren't always furious with noob gorges , even if the res flow has been considerably slowed down or they waste res on useless OC lines , but if you don't play the game the way they want they automatically flame you. Even if you have won the previous game... people have no confidence in creativity.
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It's a double edged thing I've noticed. Recently I was an Alien on ns_Bast, we started in Refinery, and they moved to engine. It was noticebly a tech race cos combat was rare unless you went looking for it. Then all of a sudden a lone marine strolls into refinery. He wastes 3 guys before dying. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> This scared the hell out of our gorge and straight away put his res into building walls of OCs, instead of grabbing feedwater like we were screaming at him to do.
Psychologically, the rambo shifted the priorities in the gorge's building nature, to defence rather than offence. We went on to lose cos they grabbed feedwater and hit us with jp/hmg. (I love flying around refinery as a lerk or jp <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
Skilled rambos annoy both aliens AND marines alike.
As far as commanding, I'm getting a taste for it actually. Recently got myself voice comms and found that a non-stop communicative commander, is a good commander. Even the smallest details you can mention that would be ommitted from regular typing, can alter the way your marines play.
Best tips I can offer for commanders:
Select your troops by name.
Congratulate good play.
Never, never, never abuse your marines for bad play.
Lay out your plan. The big plan and the sub-plan.
Can't wait for troop groupings in 1.1 <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Also i try to get one/two people as my rescource ****. Their only task is to expand for me. often these people are treated favorablly when it comes time to hand out equip.
Then i have the grunts.
Also, dont be afraid to bribe. often i will shout out "i will give (insert desired equip) to the person that gets me this rez node."
This coming from all 10 games that i have commed over 4 months of play.
I too find the beginning to be the best time to command. After you have to start locking and holding areas, it just gets tedious. You almost need a 2nd commander for dealing with certain things.
more work than necessary, not to mention a lot of stress
play alien
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Aside from that, win or lose, commanding is a stressful business.
But then I'm not an RTS player at all so it's no surprise I suppose <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
But i guess thats one of the high points of NS.
Right now, i try to anticipate my team's wishes as much i can.
I check the minimap often, looking where my marines are. For example, if i've got a couple of rambos which are near a res node, i drop an RT next to them, and i just know they would of asked me too seconds after wards. When i see people next to the armory, i select them and check if they need health.
Anticipation of your marine's wishes = A **** LOAD LESS WHINING FROM THEM.
Keep that in mind.
I've also commed on game where we were about to siege a hive... but the TF was bugged or something and I can hardly select the building to upgrade. The marines started cussing me out over voice comm and eventually ejected me. Oh well.
In most cases, marines win or lose by the amount of communications.
If your mic is garbled, patchy or just plain sux, please don't comm.
I rely on my comm to let me know the plan, where to go and when I did a great job <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Just my 2 cents.
Gumby
One of the bonuses of running a server is that people don't abuse you over voice comms or in text. Or at least not for long <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
- KILL THE FATTY!!! _-_-_-_- <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
-_-_-_- <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
_-_-_-_- <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
I like it when you get 2-3 good marines (not godly) and the rest are only half-decent. That way your plan wont fall apart 'cause of bad marines, but you still have work to do. Plus it gives you an excuse to turret up every half-significant point on the map. "WTH? Why are we building another TF?" "Cause you can't shoot worth a damn, build it." Ah... gotta love turrets.
Mmmmmmm Tuurrrreets... *drool*
Eh, what was this topic about? Oh, yeah. Yes, yes it is hard. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> No, seriously, your first time comming for real is <i>sooo</i> stressful and overwhelming. It's ok at the start, you relocate or just build up. Seize a hive, some res, contest another hive. All good. Then you get all the crazy whingeing for stuff and guys going off to grab res nozzles you cant build yet, or grab positions you can't afford to secure. I think they figure that once the start is over, they can do whatever they want: "We got a base? Check. We got hive? Check. We got 3 rt? Check. Well, we did what comm wanted, lets go grab some more stuff. OoOOooo, this res looks all sparkly and shiny <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->. Me go secure it all by myself. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> COMM, RES HERE!!!11!!!one1one!"
It does get easier though. You learn which rambo requests to do and which to ignore. As long as you have enough marines following your orders, the ramboes aren't a problem and can actually be worthwhile. You begin to start reading the situation better and you can see when ramboes are about to do something important like getting close enough to phase up a hive or whatever. You might not get better at being at several places at once, but you'll get better at ignoring the places you don't need to be. And you'll get over the fear of losing the game for the team and being blamed, its more of a self-confidence issue than anything else. Once you have faith in your own comming abilities you'll be able to let any accusations just slide off your back, and you wont even get them from a team who has seen you win a few times before.
There are a couple of things you can do to lower the stress level:
Get voice and pray that you can get them to listen to it. When they do it helps. When giving orders be firm and <b>specific.</b>
If you want your men to hold a room while u put down a pg, tfac ect be very specific and stern. eg: "You, you a and you b (you = a soldiers name) are guarding this room. You are all going to stand in opposite corners holding a cross fire postion for a bit. In 20, seconds I'll drop a phase, only you will build, you a and you b will keep that cross fire."
Bind keys to common objects. I've got the three menus (basic, advanced, and drop) bound to 1, 2, and 3 on my numberpad, IP, RT and PG are 4, 5, and 6. I've got health and ammo on teh mouse wheel.
Wait for 1.1 because groups and always seeing a trooper's name (thus making it easier to see who's following orders to the letter) is going to make this much easier.
Resist the urge to get angry and scream or start blaming them, you'll be relieved for about the 5 seconds it takes them to process that and yell back.
Have fun. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ways to help ensure win as comm.
1. Do not build T or TF at the main base.
Everytime I see the marines put a tf in their base I know the aliens are going to win. Yes it helps in the early going but not when u are trying to get 2 hives. Anyone else notice this?
2. Mine the entrance to base not througout the base.
I don't know how many games I played where the base is covered in mines, the comm just saved enough resources to get everyone jp and hmgs to take down a second hive when just as we all get suited up at base a fade comes and shoots once destroying all the mines in the base as well as the upgraded marines!
3. Use mines!
As long as you can keep the marines to 1 hive mines are great. They also don't take long to deploy.
4. Almost never leave your comm chair
Too many games the comm left the chair and gets killed leaving everyone else defenseless.
The games that I have left the comm chair I took chances and sometimes they paid off. In one game I was comming the marines were just about to destroy a hive when I realized that an alien was taking out our main base. They took out the phase gate and were trying to take out the ip's No marines were close enough to help so I quickly told them what was happening and that I was going to try to take them out myself. Being that the aliens were busy chopping at the ip they didn't see me get out of the chair and I was able to surprise them. I was able to take the risk because I knew I had the skill enough to kill them. Another reason not to comm untill u have the skill as a marine.
5. Don't give upgrades to those who don't want them.
I have had comms use the last of the res to give a jp and a shotty and said go take out a hive. ( I guess he gave it to me because I had alot of kills and I was doing what he wanted) I stink at using the shotgun! I am a spryer not an aimer. I don't always like jp either because I would always end up killing myself with it. (I am better at it now) I love gl but not everyone is good at using them. Ask the marines who is good at using it and who would want it.
6. You don't have to meet every marines demad.
Just tell them if you are going to give it to them or not and try to explain why. (not always possible)
I aso find it hard when every marine is asking u what to do next! When a marine doesn't know what to do the best thing for him to do is to defend a hive site or res.
matter a fact, I just had the whole marine team yell at me:
"the comm thinks its better to kill the hive than it is to protect them"
gg lockdown noobs :/
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
OMG RUUUUNN!!!!!!!!!!!11
But you can change commander all you like during a game.
However. I think it´s prefered to have as few commanders as possible during a game or things will get really confusing.
Thanatos.
I have also the same problem.
I always thought that commanding would be the best job for me . My computer really sucks ( P3 450Mhz ) but when I play Ns the game is goes smooth and well .
The problem is that when I enter the comm chair , it laggs horribly because a lot of additional information is sent to me and I can't do things correctly unless i go slowly <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think a good bunch of ppl have the same problem . They want but they cant <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Or the arrow keys (bound to alternate movement).