Motion Tracking...

Crazy_Ivan · March 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Do you like it?</div> Motion tracking is, in most everyone's opinion, the single most useful upgrade for the marines in the game. The marines would be at a great disadvantage is they lost it, but what if it were replaced?

My main reason for not liking motion tracking is that nullifies the advantage of hiding in corners and above doors. One of my favorite parts about the early game is hiding and ambushing marines, but once they have motion tracking, you don't stand a chance of suprising them.

Do you guys think it would be a good idea to get rid of motion tracking and give the marines some other upgrade instead?

cr3am · March 2003

i think anyone who isn't a marine-freak-uber-obsessed would agree to that.... as stated a couple dozen times before

Nether · March 2003

Im not a big fan of MT, I play with models off (omg h4x!) so I never see the circles anyway, on the odd occasion I do use it I tend to over rely on it to much, meaning if I dont see movement I assume areas are safe so I often die to ambushes which I would have normally checked for but dont becuase I relied on MT.

cr3am · March 2003

with models off?

Nether · March 2003

The weapon models, skulk teeth and marine weapon. Turning them off also turns off other parts of the hud like MT and alien location circles.

cr3am · March 2003

omg h4x

Stormeh · March 2003

I think motiontracking is fine as it is but I wouldnt mind if they redid them so that they had a certain radius from the observatory, so that one observatory didnt cover the entire map

Raiden333 · March 2003

I'm personally a fan of the idea that MT only works in range of an observatory. This way you avoid marines just building one observatory in an out of the way location (Outside the cockpit on Bast, anyone?) and forgetting about them.

Nether · March 2003

Putting a range on MT is bad imo, its to costly to marines to have to build 4 or 5 obs around the map unless its late stage and you got res coming out the wazoo. MT would just drop sharply in use.

Once you got level 3 carapace the focus should not be on ambushes it should be on raids and head on attacks. Even if a marine knows your above a doorway if he gets close enough to shoot you then hes close enough for you to kill him first.

Raiden333 · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nether @ Mar 24 2003, 02:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Putting a range on MT is bad imo, its to costly to marines to have to build 4 or 5 obs around the map unless its late stage and you got res coming out the wazoo. MT would just drop sharply in use. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I believe that was the whole idea. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Stormeh · March 2003

Then perhaps the NS team might consider redo the entire thing. Keep the observatory, but introduce small, cheap radarstations or something that needs a observatory to work (not nearby just one observatory in you main base or something to gather data from all small stations.) They should have a limited range, but not too short as it should give you some warning if a enemy is heading for the base.

Nether · March 2003

Dont forget aliens get a form of MT for free when they spawn, parasite is just as effective + they can still see stationary targets.

ZeroByte · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nether @ Mar 24 2003, 03:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Dont forget aliens get a form of MT for free when they spawn, parasite is just as effective + they can still see stationary targets.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Except parasite requires them to see the marines first while MT works without the marines seeing the aliens.

I think another good idea for the MT is the one where a marine gets an item that he has to use to be able to use MT and then he relays the alien positions to his squadmates. Would foster more teamwork and stuff.

EvenFlow · March 2003

I've seen it mentioned before, and I would like to see sensory chambers counter-act MT, whether it be an area around a SC that motion trcking does'nt work in or having Silence or Cloaking upgrades means that you cannot be tracked.

This will end up giving SC's a boost ( to be used more earlier ) and would add variety to gameplay as a whole.

NSCypher · March 2003

I think having the silence upgrade block out motion tracking is a good idea, or possibly having the MT ranged and only working in a small arc in front of you - having something like the aliens one might be more balanced, as you get no information on height. You know they are near, but not if they are above or below you...

lagger · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crazy Ivan @ Mar 24 2003, 06:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Motion tracking is, in most everyone's opinion, the single most useful upgrade for the marines in the game. The marines would be at a great disadvantage is they lost it, but what if it were replaced?

My main reason for not liking motion tracking is that nullifies the advantage of hiding in corners and above doors. One of my favorite parts about the early game is hiding and ambushing marines, but once they have motion tracking, you don't stand a chance of suprising them.

Do you guys think it would be a good idea to get rid of motion tracking and give the marines some other upgrade instead?  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
i would disagree with you 100% or at least in clan play!!! Motion tracking is an advantage but not nearly the biggest advantage the marines have... my clan doesnt even get mt unless we kill their hives and 1-2 are running around the map trying to win by time..... its highly expensive.. and somewhat redundant since all good clans have a headphone setup so they can hear ANY type of incoming attack upon their ****'s

Bigwig · March 2003

MT really sucks and needs to be redone (portable motion trackers anyone?)

Roger_Dodger · March 2003

Hmm how bout if the original upgrade came from the obs for MT and provides a substantial arc, but perhaps when u upgrade that, it upgrades res nodes to also put out an arc of MT. It would make res nodes a bit more important.
Or even make TFs do that or something?? More obs seems rather useless coz after one u dont really need anymore.

Ideas, thoughts?

glio · March 2003

Here's an idea.

You build an observatory, research motion tracking radars. Then you place the radars where ever you want on the map. And you get a range about a fifth of the map as a whole. You could take this even further and make it so it must be built in the range of a turret factory, thus renaming the TF to MFB (Mobile Field base). The observatory costs like 40, 45? Motion tracking would cost the same, but the radars would cost 19 to build.

Good idea, or crap? Amendable?

neonfaktory · March 2003

I hate MT right now, whether I'm a Marine or Alien. I like the idea of MT only working within range of an Observatory. Alot of other ideas have lots of technicalities to them.

- Adding a mini MT structure is not necessarily bad, but too much work when there are lots of alternative ideas that would accomplish the same thing but for less wacky additions.

- Having an MT device one person gets to relay to the team sounds cool, but then you'd have issues with making sure people have voice comm to use it with, not to mention the worst aspect of this: You get lots of voice comm spamming. You KNOW people are going to be yelling into voice comm "OMG STOP, THERES ONE IN THAT ROOM, above the doorway... wait, now moving to the left, ok hes at the base of the door... wait hes running away, WAIT, theres 2 now, theyre in the center of the room... " Someone Else: "SHUT UP, I'm trying to listen for skulks"

- Silence negates MT is also a fairly decent idea, but it's redundant. Many people argue that you don't need Motion Tracking, just listen. Well, silence already handles that in some form. I just don't like the idea of shoving ALL stealth-harnessing power of the Kharaa into Silence. They should ALL be able to retain thier stealth throught the game, but those with silence can be <i>that much more</i> stealthy. Not being able to hear someone coming is more than enough of an advantage, but also being the ONLY upgrade that can combat MT?? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

So yeah, I would <b>really</b> like to see MT only work on Aliens within range of the Observatory. What does it cost, 25rp? That sounds perfect. Scratch one HMG and get an observatory up in that Hive you just took over. Yeah, I think that would work out great.

blobdole · March 2003

There is only one reason I don't like MT. Very simply, it moves away from the origional design that the development team would always quote: "Marines and Aliens are Supposed to be different." This was the reason for many ideas being turned down, such as an alien siege tower. Other than that, I don't have an opinion.

Blobdole

Mindmeldme · March 2003

Motion tracking is an excellent upgrade and one of the best and most useful for marines. it does not however make the marines uber good or anything. As is a good alien can still hide and ambush marines...the kicker of course is when aliens have fades...at which point ambushing isn't such a big thing any more. there isn't any real reason to take it out. maybe another upgrade or two for the aliens that could minmize it or something would be intersting but...overall, i don't think it's need any change. but, that's just my opinion.

teh_Lurv · March 2003

I personally don't care for MT and usually don't go for it as comm unless we are swimming in res. My reason is the cost. 45 res is alot. With that res I could buy two lvl 1 upgrades/ one lvl 2 upgrade/ almost have enough to tech up to jp/hmg/ etc.

Akira · March 2003

I personally think that a good way to 'nerf' the MT a bit, is to either:

1) Make Cloaking negate MT.

2) Replace that sh!tty map on the HUD with a "Aliens" MT that only shows nearby alien movement. Could be only 180 degrees forward, or an entire 360 showing, say 20-30 feet around the Marine or something.
Anyone that has played AvP1-2 would know exactly what i'm talking about, they got it just right; you only know how far they are to you, but NOT EXACTLY where they are (like now); e.g. skulks can still hide and stalk/ambush if they wish sucessfully.

EDIT 3)
Nicking an idea from neonfaktory on the hand-held MT. It can replace the pistol like the welder, but instead of having to communicate directly to team mates via text/voice, the game can automatically update everyone's sight that are within range of the MT guy.
E.g. Imagine 3 HA guys & 1 LMG scout, scout boy has the handheld MT, and as long as the HA guys (or any other team mate) stays relatively close to the Scout, they automatically have MT on their screens to a certain distance. This i think is quite a good one; because it promotes team-play and co-ordination. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Ak.

Ph0enix · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Akira @ Mar 24 2003, 05:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Replace that sh!tty map on the HUD with a "Aliens" MT that only shows nearby alien movement. Could be only 180 degrees forward, or an entire 360 showing, say 20-30 feet around the Marine or something.
Anyone that has played AvP1-2 would know exactly what i'm talking about, they got it just right; you only know how far they are to you, but NOT EXACTLY where they are (like now); e.g. skulks can still hide and stalk/ambush if they wish sucessfully.
 </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
That rubbish (evading swear filter is bad, m'kay ?) mini-map is being updated in 1.1. Blame MonsE <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

It has been suggested before now to show blips on that map instead of the current circles on your HUD.

Zel · March 2003

i dont like MT as it is now, when theres too many blue circles i cant see whats right in front of me! i would prefer to rely on my keen headphones to know where skulks are. PLUS this allows a good ambusher to still be a good ambusher. (only move when there are loud noises to cover your footstep sounds)

however, i really like this idea of a ranged motion sensor, say the obs can be upgraded for 15-25 to become a motion sensor that works for only a quarter of the map, and you can drop more of them in strategic locations. (this would be a variation on your remote radar thingey idea) and you would have to upgrade each obs individually.plus it would mean knocking out that marine obs in their base actuallt has some ramifications!

Aries8 · March 2003

I think that "lagging" the motion tracking circle would be a good idea. Like the blue circle comes up in that area and stays there for like 3-5 second then it tracking the skulk again to were it moved. If the skulk stops moving before it retracks it nothing comes up. Thos 3 seconds could give you some time to hind in a room without the marines knowing where you are exactly, but they still know your in the room.
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'>

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

Frikk · March 2003

I love mt with all my heart. I have almost never seen it outside of a clan match/scrim. The only thing that I would change is making it so you need a functioning Obs to use it.

Inexorable · March 2003

Figured I throw something in that if I were to lobby for some ability to negate MT, I would make an entirely new one. There is no reason to add that much power to either Cloak or Silence. I might even put that ability on the DC just to spread it all out, and provide a much needed counterbalance to Carapace.

And hey, it works you know... the DC giving you immunity to radar or something. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

matso · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lagger @ Mar 24 2003, 05:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> i would disagree with you 100% or at least in clan play!!! Motion tracking is an advantage but not nearly the biggest advantage the marines have... my clan doesnt even get mt unless we kill their hives and 1-2 are running around the map trying to win by time..... its highly expensive.. and somewhat redundant since all good clans have a headphone setup so they can hear ANY type of incoming attack upon their ****'s </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
In a HMG/JP rush, PG's are not useful and every resource point counts, so paying 70 res (Obs+MT research) for MT is of course not a good idea, especially in 6v6 clan games.

However, in drawn out games, MT in one fell stroke removes all possibility of surprise attack for the aliens. Any time the aliens try to rally for a major attack on a marine position, the marines will be there waiting for them. The whole strategic position changes - suddenly, the marines can stop worrying, as they can see where every alien on the whole map is. Sure, an alien that don't move usually[1] don't show up, but aliens MUST move 90% of the time.

Personally, I'd like to see a way to move slowly as an aliens, slowly enough that MT won't pick you up. As it is, you can't move one ulp without the tracker blasting a huge blue target on you. Would allow you to crawl up into a good ambush position without yelling to every marine on the whole map what you are doing.

Oh, and finally ... MT cements DMS build order, as it removes most of the advantage of both cloaking and silence.

[1] Sometimes the tracking circle clings to an immoble alien. Fun, fun...

SoBe_Dragon · March 2003

I dont like motion tracking. Being able to see your enemies through walls is a good train for the alien species to have. Giving the marines "hive sight" is kind of stupid i think. I always played on a linux server, so we never had MT. My opinion is "Marines were powerful enough without MT"

down with motion

Motion Tracking...

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