<!--QuoteBegin--Gazaar+Feb 26 2003, 06:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gazaar @ Feb 26 2003, 06:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can blink very well, and will be very angry if it's removed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ditto, spend some time running around maps in a lan game just practicing blink, you could learn alot
<!--QuoteBegin--Pvt|Lohne+Feb 26 2003, 06:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pvt|Lohne @ Feb 26 2003, 06:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I dont know exactly when it happend, but fades have as of late gotten ridiculsy harder to kill. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Perhaps, just perhaps, the aliens are improving their tactics or valuing their lives just that little bit more and trying to make the 54 res a fade costs worth it?
Fixing blink to make it a bit more reliable would be good for newer players. Right now, I can blink down just about any hallway just fine, the only problems I have are blinking into func_wall brushes, and usually theres a friendly gorge nearby to build an MC to get me unstuck.
On a side note, perhaps fixing the hive locations such that a redeemed onos, or an onos that has used an MC wont get stuck in the walls? Cargo bay hive on NS_Nothing is notorious from that, why, I remember when 3 onos got stuck there at once, not even the old MC trick could do it, had to type kill in the end <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
On yet another side note and since Kharaa_Oz is looking in on this topic <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Is Planet NS down? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I dunno if it's because I know how to avoid it, or what, but I haven't actually blinked into a piece of map architecture since about a month before the release, when Flayra fixed it up (it was much more problematic before then).
Just, don't aim at curved/small things. Aim at the wall, and aim at a flat part. Crouch jump helps, especially if you're aiming slightly down. Aim slightly up. A bit tricky in small halls, but very easy to pull off in large rooms.
If I had to give my opinion, blink will never be removed. It's one of the few things thats been in since the very first playtest (or very shortly thereafter), and is the single defining weapon of the Fade class.
You've gotta be joking. Blink? Removed? Blink is the reason the damn thing is named a FADE. Because the marines thought that i seemed to "Fade" away. (Blink!!)
Besides, if you take away Blink, Then Fade = Big, Slow Skulk. That's just stupid and pointless.
Everyone knows blink does not work 100%. Do the other alien abilities work 100%? If they can't re-code blink to <b>make it work as intended</b> then it should be swapped. Is the alien called a Blink or a <i>Fade</i>? The Blink ability could easily be replaced with a "fading" effect whereby the fade completely cloaks for a certain period of time and gains faster movement speed; either fading into a group of marines and ripping it to shreds, or bouncing the hell out of a group of HA/HMG. I can get blink to work most of the time, but when it doesn't work you tend to get killed/stuck which isn't a player's fault. "You didn't blink well enough". Uhm, it's intended to be point and click. You have to jump/duck aim up/down and wait for the proper phase of the moon to get it working most of the time, and sometimes I can't find a reason why it won't work at all! Sure on a LAN I can blink all over the place...if I do the aforementioned series of steps, and it still won't work 100%. I click once and a rocket/bite/spike/umbra/whatever goes off 100% of the time. Blink doesn't. If it doesn't work it needs to be scrapped, even if it is cool.
To all the people who say they have no problem with blink, just jump/crouch avoid func_walls, the problem is that its too non-intuitive. When you start learning NS, blink doesn't seem to do anything. Then you figure it out, and invariably get stuck around 5 times before you figure out how to avoid that. This does not encourage people to use it.
To put it another way, imagine the manual was updated to give instructions for the way blink works now: Jump and crouch at the same time, aim at where you want to go and fire. Avoid entity objects, looking out for func_walls in particular. If you do get stck, type kill in the console.
I'd like to see blink fixed, but I suspect that will be very hard. (Thats just a guess on my part). I predict that blink will change in function in someway, but will remain the same sort of thing.
<!--QuoteBegin--ded_meet+Feb 26 2003, 08:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ded_meet @ Feb 26 2003, 08:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm with the majority of the people on this one. Blink is too important to take out. Hopefully, it'll be functional 100% of the time in v1.1 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It is.... Just like you have to aim to hit a target.. you have to aim right to blink... and remember.. its not the computers fault.. its completing the operations as its told.
Blink is underused at the moment, most folks use the acid rocket until they can get bile bomb so there's little need to deliberately get close to marines unless the map is particularly choked. It's likely that it'll swap slots with acid rocket in 1.1. There is also talk of all classes available with one hive it will be possible to have a 1 hive Fade.
<i>This</i> Fade would be Melee only so blink would be used <i>loads</i> - especially if blink is made to work a little better <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
When I have used blink successfully to attack or get up elevator shafts or get away, I feel a great sense of accomplishment which makes me smile and say "you da man" I then proceed to paste a little gold star to my forehead, hehe. JK.
It is a little difficult, and does require practice and depending on your latency will not work the same always.
I hope it is refined a bit, I imagine that that helps mapmakers too, it must be a pain in the arse to make maps where blink works well and Onos do not get stuck everywhere.
I have read almost every post in this discussion. I haven't been playin THAT long, but.......
Fades. I like 'em. Everyone is talking about acid rocket this and teleport that - PHOEY! Sure the Fade has an acid rocket. It's the only alien class with a decent ranged weapon (Lerks have to tickle someone to death) and people are complaing. HAHAHA. Blink can get you up to places no Onos or HA marine could ever get to, if used right. I'm sure the developers did not want people getting stuck or running into those 2 friggin pixels that were "in the way", but I'm also aware if they were smart enough to create this mod then they are probably working on a fix.
Fades a hit and run class? Not exactly. Skulks are hit-and-run (suicide when the run part doesn't work). Lerks are hit-and-run. Gorge = fat slow thingy scared of it's own shadow. You can't have EVERY class be a hit and run / hide class except Onos. Fades are intentionally supposed to be able to hold their ground IMHO. I agree, far too often people try to use them like tanks. They are a standoff class. Area denial. Take ground and hold until you have to run. Onos is the tank <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The Aliens' biggest advantage is mobility. And people actually want to take blink away? LOL! Even worse, some people think they are not mobile enough? You want to blink right on top of anyone parasited. Gimme a break.
Blink is cool. At first I didn't think so, but I kept my mouth shut until I got a little more experience using it. Now I think it rules. I hope they fix it. Then everyone once even the n00bs can use it everyone will say so too and this will be a dead issue
<!--QuoteBegin--murta+Feb 26 2003, 01:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (murta @ Feb 26 2003, 01:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think the only people who have a problem with blink just don't know how to use it well <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> people.... the above sentence is 100% true! Please read it around 76 times and let it sink in!
It wouldn't be logical to get blink out.. Scream can leave as its too strong <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Or it can leave as the pwnos is so big it is just a finisher <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Wile E Coyote Gorge = fat slow thingy scared of it's own shadow. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I resent that comment <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
My <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> will own your <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
If anyone else has ever played Red Alert 2... there was a unit called the Chronotrooper that could teleport anywhere on the map instantly but it couldn't attack until it finished "jumping in" which could take frigging forever based on how far you teleported. I don't think they should change Blink, but if they allow a Fade to teleport anywhere that's how they could balance it.
Oh, and I recall a passage from the manual about Fades. Something along the lines of TSA Marines being scared out of their skins by aliens appearing and disappearing without warning, which earned them the name of "Fades". Blink rocks, they won't remove it.
I believe the 'old' style of 'blink' was you could actually walk THROUGH walls. However it was a little buggy and there was the reoccuring problem of getting 'stuck.'
That's if my memory serves me right, I could be hallucinating and that was never implemented or thought of. Ever.
It'd still be really cool to scare the **** out of a marine by walking through a wall infront or behind him.
1. Naturally Blink wouldn't be just removed and replaced with Acid Bomb or something like that. If it were to be removed, they would make same kind of ability(invisibility, teleport etc.) which would serve Blinks former purposes and they could keep the Fade name.
2. Fam: there is a slight difference between someone with many hundred ns-hours behind and with some new nsplayer. Blink should be more player friendly. It doesn't fit Ns's basic rules of easy usage to crouch-jump, avoid everything except plain wall, close your eyes, count to ten, say shalakimbaz, donce in circles and wish for the best before Blinking.
3. All Kharaa ability discussion to <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=24475' target='_blank'>this</a> thread please. Its for the sake of our own sanity, forum is already filling with these suggestions. So much easier to keep them in one thread. Thank you.
<!--QuoteBegin--philmcneal+Feb 26 2003, 12:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (philmcneal @ Feb 26 2003, 12:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A new ability will replace blink! Watch me be right =) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Watch you be wrong.
Blink should be left in. If anything, replace bile bomb with something other than the slightly altered acid rocket that it is <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
... okay, okay, so bile bomb isn't just an acid rocket, but the effects of the two are very similar, while the other aliens have more variance in their abilities.
OR! Leave the Fade alone! Not -everything- in 1.1 has to be drastically different <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Iden+Feb 26 2003, 03:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Iden @ Feb 26 2003, 03:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I believe the 'old' style of 'blink' was you could actually walk THROUGH walls. However it was a little buggy and there was the reoccuring problem of getting 'stuck.'<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It did do that for quite some time. The catch was that the wall/door had to thin (the spinning door of Bast and the weldable doors of Hera were the common spots). However I believe it was removed because it allowed too much mobility to the aliens and/or couldn't work when Blink was fixed.
As for blink, doing a jump/couch will usually succeed for me. But a Fade is a great meleer. Those claws will rip marines to shreds (one time I had to protect the last hive from HA marines with just claws, nailed them good). And Blink/Claw/Blink is an evil evil tactic that while hard to learn works wonders.
i dont even use fade anymore. rarely ever. i use lerk as much as possible <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
when i do fade, i dont even blink much. only get away. which when fade, if you are good, you really dont have to do. get regen and adren on and you can just back off and dodge.
blink works if you know how to use it, I use it all the time, and I've watched 3 HA marines get owned without the fade taking a hit by him blinking behind them in one of the corridors near CC in eclipse.
as for replacing it, I hope they don't, I hope they just improve it, make it function a little better, and let me blink straight up ****!! <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Zenn+Feb 26 2003, 12:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zenn @ Feb 26 2003, 12:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Probably, and Hopefully...I hate blink. Nothing like trying to blink away, and having your little claws flail in the air and you go NO WHERE. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed, I feel like such a gimp when that happens. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
ditto, spend some time running around maps in a lan game just practicing blink, you could learn alot
[FACT] - the sky is blue
Perhaps, just perhaps, the aliens are improving their tactics or valuing their lives just that little bit more and trying to make the 54 res a fade costs worth it?
Fixing blink to make it a bit more reliable would be good for newer players. Right now, I can blink down just about any hallway just fine, the only problems I have are blinking into func_wall brushes, and usually theres a friendly gorge nearby to build an MC to get me unstuck.
On a side note, perhaps fixing the hive locations such that a redeemed onos, or an onos that has used an MC wont get stuck in the walls? Cargo bay hive on NS_Nothing is notorious from that, why, I remember when 3 onos got stuck there at once, not even the old MC trick could do it, had to type kill in the end <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
On yet another side note and since Kharaa_Oz is looking in on this topic <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Is Planet NS down? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Just, don't aim at curved/small things. Aim at the wall, and aim at a flat part. Crouch jump helps, especially if you're aiming slightly down. Aim slightly up. A bit tricky in small halls, but very easy to pull off in large rooms.
If I had to give my opinion, blink will never be removed. It's one of the few things thats been in since the very first playtest (or very shortly thereafter), and is the single defining weapon of the Fade class.
Blink? Removed?
Blink is the reason the damn thing is named a FADE. Because the marines thought that i seemed to "Fade" away. (Blink!!)
Besides, if you take away Blink, Then Fade = Big, Slow Skulk. That's just stupid and pointless.
IMO. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
w00t! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
To put it another way, imagine the manual was updated to give instructions for the way blink works now: Jump and crouch at the same time, aim at where you want to go and fire. Avoid entity objects, looking out for func_walls in particular. If you do get stck, type kill in the console.
I'd like to see blink fixed, but I suspect that will be very hard. (Thats just a guess on my part). I predict that blink will change in function in someway, but will remain the same sort of thing.
It is.... Just like you have to aim to hit a target.. you have to aim right to blink... and remember.. its not the computers fault.. its completing the operations as its told.
>_<
<i>This</i> Fade would be Melee only so blink would be used <i>loads</i> - especially if blink is made to work a little better <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
It is a little difficult, and does require practice and depending on your latency will not work the same always.
I hope it is refined a bit, I imagine that that helps mapmakers too, it must be a pain in the arse to make maps where blink works well and Onos do not get stuck everywhere.
Fades. I like 'em. Everyone is talking about acid rocket this and teleport that - PHOEY! Sure the Fade has an acid rocket. It's the only alien class with a decent ranged weapon (Lerks have to tickle someone to death) and people are complaing. HAHAHA. Blink can get you up to places no Onos or HA marine could ever get to, if used right. I'm sure the developers did not want people getting stuck or running into those 2 friggin pixels that were "in the way", but I'm also aware if they were smart enough to create this mod then they are probably working on a fix.
Fades a hit and run class? Not exactly. Skulks are hit-and-run (suicide when the run part doesn't work). Lerks are hit-and-run. Gorge = fat slow thingy scared of it's own shadow. You can't have EVERY class be a hit and run / hide class except Onos. Fades are intentionally supposed to be able to hold their ground IMHO. I agree, far too often people try to use them like tanks. They are a standoff class. Area denial. Take ground and hold until you have to run. Onos is the tank <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The Aliens' biggest advantage is mobility. And people actually want to take blink away? LOL! Even worse, some people think they are not mobile enough? You want to blink right on top of anyone parasited. Gimme a break.
Blink is cool. At first I didn't think so, but I kept my mouth shut until I got a little more experience using it. Now I think it rules. I hope they fix it. Then everyone once even the n00bs can use it everyone will say so too and this will be a dead issue
people.... the above sentence is 100% true! Please read it around 76 times and let it sink in!
If I'm not mistaken, each alien got a helping ability (either team or evasion)
skulk>Leap
Gorge>spray+webs
Lerk>Umbra
Fade>Blink
Onos>Scream
It wouldn't be logical to get blink out.. Scream can leave as its too strong <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Or it can leave as the pwnos is so big it is just a finisher <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Gorge = fat slow thingy scared of it's own shadow. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I resent that comment <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
My <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> will own your <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh, and I recall a passage from the manual about Fades. Something along the lines of TSA Marines being scared out of their skins by aliens appearing and disappearing without warning, which earned them the name of "Fades". Blink rocks, they won't remove it.
That's if my memory serves me right, I could be hallucinating and that was never implemented or thought of. Ever.
It'd still be really cool to scare the **** out of a marine by walking through a wall infront or behind him.
2. Fam: there is a slight difference between someone with many hundred ns-hours behind and with some new nsplayer. Blink should be more player friendly. It doesn't fit Ns's basic rules of easy usage to crouch-jump, avoid everything except plain wall, close your eyes, count to ten, say shalakimbaz, donce in circles and wish for the best before Blinking.
3. All Kharaa ability discussion to <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=24475' target='_blank'>this</a> thread please. Its for the sake of our own sanity, forum is already filling with these suggestions. So much easier to keep them in one thread. Thank you.
Watch you be wrong.
Getting stuck into anything is an essential NS feature!
... okay, okay, so bile bomb isn't just an acid rocket, but the effects of the two are very similar, while the other aliens have more variance in their abilities.
OR! Leave the Fade alone! Not -everything- in 1.1 has to be drastically different <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
It did do that for quite some time. The catch was that the wall/door had to thin (the spinning door of Bast and the weldable doors of Hera were the common spots). However I believe it was removed because it allowed too much mobility to the aliens and/or couldn't work when Blink was fixed.
As for blink, doing a jump/couch will usually succeed for me. But a Fade is a great meleer. Those claws will rip marines to shreds (one time I had to protect the last hive from HA marines with just claws, nailed them good). And Blink/Claw/Blink is an evil evil tactic that while hard to learn works wonders.
when i do fade, i dont even blink much. only get away. which when fade, if you are good, you really dont have to do. get regen and adren on and you can just back off and dodge.
Folks, there is a very easy way of finding out about the 1.1 changes: Wait till it's done.
Until then, such topics will only create rumors.
Hey, NemZer, at least it's better than the usual 'this owns, this sucks' threads.
Rumours are exactly that. Rumours. Let the spinners spin!
as for replacing it, I hope they don't, I hope they just improve it, make it function a little better, and let me blink straight up ****!! <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Agreed, I feel like such a gimp when that happens. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->