once again, DREAD, hes another retarded little kid that cant hack it when he gets owned by someone with a CFG file. SIGH* ITS A CFG FILE OH NO THE WORLD IS OVER LETS DESTROY EVERYTHING BECAUSE IM A LITTLE IDIOT AND DONT WANNA GET OWNED ALL THE TIME..
like i said before, go into a corner, have a cry, get up and your a new man. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
i dont use any type of leap/bitegun scripts and i can manage to do it just fine without them. Its not like its a very hard thing to do. Also, if you did use lame **** scripts like that... how would you get leap kills on ppl? I love getting leap kills on ppl and after getting 2 hives as aliens, thats all i go for anyways :o
<!--QuoteBegin--Audhumbla+Feb 22 2003, 08:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Audhumbla @ Feb 22 2003, 08:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> razorclaw thats ****, i dont use a script to comm and i can comm just fine, its not hat hard
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Just imagine how great you would be if you used scripts though! (btw I only mean for selecting stuff, I hardly ever comm but I still have some script that someone had made, can't remember who)
Anyway this script someone had made bound the different items to the numpad, and rebound the keys when you selected another build menu. If you have ANYTHING against that type of scripts you're being rediculous.
What's wrong with having concentrated the keys for building different structures to the numpad keys instead of spreading them all over the keyboard. Nice script IMO and NOT cheating, nice job whoever made it.
Those who say using certain type of hardware such as voicecom and 5+ button mice is OK, but are against scripting have double standards IMO. Using voicecom over typing and using mice with lots of extra buttons is as much cheating as using scripts.
If we want it to be COMPLETLY fair without any cheating going on whatsoever NS should be made to only run on PC with the exact same hardware, at the exact same resolutiong etc etc
How is anyone playing NS on a 56K modem using a 400Mhz p2 and a voodoo2 gonna stand a chance against someone with a 10Mbit connection 3.06Ghz P4 and a GeForceFX Ultra/R9700 Pro. That guy with the new expensive PC should be banned from every single NS server lame **** cheater.
<!--QuoteBegin--RazorClaw+Feb 22 2003, 06:53 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RazorClaw @ Feb 22 2003, 06:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Remove all scripting and the effectiveness of most commanders will go down ALOT, it's more or less essential for commanders to use some sort of scripts.
It might take a couple of seconds longer for a comm to do each action without any shortcut keys. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Which would then support that scripting gives an unfair advantage, and therefore is a cheat.
I don't understand why people seem to think that cheating, if it's not too big of a cheat, is therefore okay. Where do you draw the line on 'wrong'? As long as it doesn't allow you to see through walls, you're okay with it? Come on guys, get some standards, some integrity! You keep bending, and the cheaters will keep pushing!
I also don't understand why the cheat sympathizers keep rationalizing these things away, regardless of the fact that Flayra has already declared it a cheat! I think that shows you that <b>you are already wrong.</b>
When will everyone finally admit scripts like these are cheating? Will you finally admit scripts are generally wrong when they play the game for you? Is that when they cross the line?
Moon, let me propose something. Let's say I'm an experienced veteran. I am one of the top players in the world. I have a fully scripted, customized version of Natural Selection. I have edited all my models to be blank (without using the drawviewmodel exploit). I have edited out all background sounds. I have made multiple scripts to change weapons quickly. I've increased the sounds of footsteps so I can hear everyone better. I have increased the gamma and brightness so I don't have any shadows. I have perfected the bunny hop, allowing me to dodge most of your attacks. You, however, do not. You may be good, but you're running the stock version of Natural Selection. You haven't even changed your name yet. Are you now willing to state that these 'modifications' to my computer don't give much of an advantage? If left seperate, none of these seem to go beyond your personal specification of giving too much of an advantage. However, combined, they seem to be quite daunting, don't they? And in the right hands, they're even worse!
And who said that the players using these scripts actually wrote them?
<!--QuoteBegin--Aphon+Feb 22 2003, 09:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Aphon @ Feb 22 2003, 09:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i dont use any type of leap/bitegun scripts and i can manage to do it just fine without them. Its not like its a very hard thing to do. Also, if you did use lame **** scripts like that... how would you get leap kills on ppl? I love getting leap kills on ppl and after getting 2 hives as aliens, thats all i go for anyways :o <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Leap doesn't do as much damage as people claim, I was once facing a LA marine and used leap straight at his torso, he died but I could have bit him to death faster than leap killed him. Leaping at em and biting kills em fastest for sure.
I read somewhere that it does damage till you touch the ground... thats so not true, it probably does damage about 5-10 times or something. I havent tested just guessing.
<!--QuoteBegin--MedHead+Feb 22 2003, 09:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Feb 22 2003, 09:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Which would then support that scripting gives an unfair advantage, and therefore is a cheat. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Using a higher spec PC and playing at higher res on a larger monitor also gives an advantage, is that also considered cheating?
People who complain about cheating are sad fools who can't stand losing, I don't care what people use as long as it doesnt allow them to fly around as a JPer wearing HA with as much HP/armor as an ONOS holding 1 HMG in each hand.
<!--QuoteBegin--RazorClaw+Feb 22 2003, 08:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RazorClaw @ Feb 22 2003, 08:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [quote]Anyway this script someone had made bound the different items to the numpad, and rebound the keys when you selected another build menu. Those who say using certain type of hardware such as voicecom and 5+ button mice is OK, but are against scripting have double standards IMO. Using voicecom over typing and using mice with lots of extra buttons is as much cheating as using scripts.
If we want it to be COMPLETLY fair without any cheating going on whatsoever NS should be made to only run on PC with the exact same hardware, at the exact same resolutiong etc etc
How is anyone playing NS on a 56K modem using a 400Mhz p2 and a voodoo2 gonna stand a chance against someone with a 10Mbit connection 3.06Ghz P4 and a GeForceFX Ultra/R9700 Pro. That guy with the new expensive PC should be banned from every single NS server lame **** cheater. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Those buttons are impulses. You can bind those to a key already. Since it's allowed already, I see nothing wrong with placing them on the numpad. However, I do see where people would have problem with your using the same button for multiple objects. The whole point of the configuration screen is that the user only uses the button once, rather than multiple times. That is where I think this script is wrong.
You can't be more wrong about the voicecomm. Vavle implemented it. Natural Selection supports it. Why would that be considered a cheat? Flayra (according to another user) stated scripting was cheating. He, however, never stated we were required to use a specific mouse, or to never use voicecomm.
Differing hardware is quite a large factor of increased performance. You are right. Buying better hardware has never been considered cheating in any medium, be it sports, gaming, or business. If that was the case, the gaming world would stagnate, since no user would be allowed to upgrade the computer! Which would mean Natural Selection would never have been made, since we would still be playing text based games!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You can't be more wrong about the voicecomm. Vavle implemented it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Valve implemented scripting as well so that arguement doesn't carry any weight.
<!--QuoteBegin--RazorClaw+Feb 22 2003, 09:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RazorClaw @ Feb 22 2003, 09:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Using a higher spec PC and playing at higher res on a larger monitor also gives an advantage, is that also considered cheating?
People who complain about cheating are sad fools who can't stand losing, I don't care what people use as long as it doesnt allow them to fly around as a JPer wearing HA with as much HP/armor as an ONOS holding 1 HMG in each hand. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I already stated it, but you replied before me. Building a better (insert object here) is never considered wrong, because it's a vital part of the business world. Would you rather everything ground to a halt?
I'm a fool because other users cheat? Excuse me? Should we all cheat then? Would that make you happy?
You're kidding about the Jetpacker comment, right? You'd be willing to play against a wallhacker? You think you'd be better than an aimbotter?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Leap doesn't do as much damage as people claim<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
leap does alot of dmg when used right,especially against structures it does even more when you bite with it eg. leap onto your target and bite while pushing against whatever the target may be even so the big advantage of a leap script imo is to be able to bite and then leap,land behind the marine and bite him again b4 he knows whats happening having leap bound to a single button press gives alot of mobility and is excellent for dodging fire i almost never kill with leap except marines in vents
<!--QuoteBegin--RazorClaw+Feb 22 2003, 09:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RazorClaw @ Feb 22 2003, 09:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You can't be more wrong about the voicecomm. Vavle implemented it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Valve implemented scripting as well so that arguement doesn't carry any weight. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> However, Valve also allowed users to change player models. Do you prefer yours bright pink, or neon yellow? My point was that Vavle recently installed voicecomm, which therefore couldn't mean it was cheating. Unless Valve is in the business of cheating.
On top of that, I'm not so sure Vavle really 'allowed' scripting. I have a feeling they were allowing the binding of keys in console, and, like many other things, it was made to give an advantage through scripts.
Look at Linux. Because it is open source, it allows users to make modifications to it easily. However, it also allows hackers to crack it all the more easily, <b>because</b> it's open source. It's only because it is constantly being patched that it stands a chance.
No Im not saying it's foolish to be against cheating, but there is also a limit how strict/intolerant you can be. I don't see anything wrong with using simple script that anyone can use/write and which don't enable them to pull of some super human stunts. What it all comes down to is improving the UI.
If I don't use any type of leap script, I usually and up pressing the wrong buttons... resulting in for example me leaping at a guy then by mistake choosing parasite instead of bite and Im dead. While the anti-script code was enabled you hardly saw anyone using leap, after the update where they removed the death penalities you immediately saw lots of people jumping around and biting at stuff. It's too complicated to select the stuff manually.
What these scripts do is basically enabling someone (like me) who doesnt have lightning fast and super human hand coordination to effectively use all the skills/abilities. I have never accused anyone of being a script cheater and I never will.
No human no matter how keen your senses are can literally see through walls, you might roughly be able to tell where they are if you have good speakers/sound card. Nor can you empty a LMG clip in half the time as anyone else.
I categorize anything that you would need super human abilities for as cheating, seeing through walls running faster than anyone else etc.
Stuff that just <b>"improve" existing skills</b> I don't consider cheating, yes after some tought I admit if it was a sport or competition perhaps scripting could be considered cheating. But in public games there is no way to standardize anything, there is a "grey" area. I wouldnt punish or accuse anyone of cheating as long as they dont step into the <b>"black" area, more or less adding new skills/senses</b>. (stuff that no person could do, such as sieing invisible beings, seeing through walls etc)
As for the flying ONOS with akimbo HMG comment:) that was just an exaggeration/simile of that anything that is impossible without modifying the game itself. I suppouse I could kill an aimboter if I managed to sneak up behind him, as for a wallhacker as long as he isnt also an aimboter I guess I could kill him once in a while. Personally I wouldnt aproove of either of those.
I don't use scripts. I can still kill with leap/bite attacks.
You know how you get better with finger agility? Practice. Not scripts.
I really dislike people considering public games as somehow a lower level of entertainment. I avoid clan gaming like the Plague. I don't care for the elitist attitude among clans. I don't have the time to play in clans. Therefore, public gaming is the only alternative for me. I do not appreciate the attitude that it's okay to ruin my gaming experience because I'm one of those 'pubbers.'
Well in the end there is no way <b>you</b> are gonna prevent people from using scripts etc, you can just live with it...
As long as someone doesn't step over the line separating the obvious cheats from people just "extending" their skills... there is no way you can tell if they are using scripts or not.
I just play to have fun and I don't feel Im ruining anyones gaming experience by using simple scripts such as "leap->swith back to prev weapon" not leap/bit. For all they know I could just be a slightly more skilled player than I actually am.
This game is no sport I don't win any prizes for playing better/worse. If I was in a clan OR if someone publicly stated that no scripts what so ever were allowed on a certain server I would not use em. Im not out to decieve anyone, if Im using a script I wont deny it. However I won't either publicly state that Im using this and that each time I join a server just to be attacked by some intolerant/flame happy....)
I would also say that <b>other factors which <u>you personally</u> don't seem to consider cheating such as hardware (monitor, cpu, gfx card mouse etc etc) are equally important</b>. If me using these scripts improves my performance by lets say 5% and having the latest hardware (without scripts) would also improve it by 5% what difference does it make if Im playing on a crappy PC using scripts or the latest state of the art computer hardware if I would play equally well in both situations? There are so many factors that determine your "l33t skillz" that I find it rediculous that anyone concentrate just one one aspect of it and declares it a "death sin".
IMHO Im not hurting anyone and nor is anyone else using scripts as long as they stay within certain bounds, and thats my FINAL oppinion.
Way back when, scripts were generally used by people to do things that were not set up in the original game, like comm scripts. <b>For example:</b> In TFC I used a spy script that told my team I was disguising as the enemy and what class the disguise was. It didn't allow my character to do anything it was not intended to do.
MANY other scripts were made to help automate clunky and unfriendly interfaces, like the buy menu on CS or the sentry build menu of earlier TFC versions. ValVe, guys who were visionaries on how to sell a game and keep it popular, opted to ADD the basic function of the sentry script to the game code INSTEAD of trying to tell everyone they were wrong for wanting an easier way to do things. TFC Rocket-jump scripts were generally considered fair by most because it was something the developers intended for you to be able to do AND it was fairly easy to do without scripts anyway. Mostly benifitted guys with 250+ pings, the lag would make timing the jump just impossible without a script.
However, as time progressed, lamers didn't know when to stop and REALLY pushed the bounds of what is acceptable, allowing their characters to do things that in most cases were *technically* possible, but highly unlkely to be able to pull off. <b>For example:</b> There was a script for the TFC Engineer that stopped rockets and pipe bombs. When he saw a rocket fired at him, by pressing and holding one button he a) armed a grenade b) started building an ammo dispencer. The ammo dispencer appears instantly, and since it has not been completely built yet, is industructable. Ater the the rocket hits the dispencer, causing no damage, he lets off the button and c) stops building the dispencer which immediately dissapears and d) throws a grenade at the enemy. This type of script is generally considered a cheat and you could never use it in league matches.
And then of course, there are scripts that, while not technically a "hack", are called exploits. These allow you to do things that you were never intended to be able to do at all. <b>For example:</b> The spectator script which exploited the brand-new "spectator mode" ValVe had added to the Half-Life engine. It allowed you to move around the map just like the /noclip cheat code, except you could pick up objects and could shoot people. Was quickly and thoroughly squashed by ValVe. Also, the 3rd person script, which was never removed by ValVe because it is a valuable (and nessecary IMHO) tool for map and model builders, and some mods actually make use of it (Science and Industry to name one)
I don't know that much about NS scripts, but I have to admit that aside from communication scripts there isn't really that much that you need to script for in NS, unless you are trying to use an exploit or you lost an arm in a tragic farming accident. The mod developers were pretty much on top of things in the "user-friendly" catagory. (Now if they would only do the same thing for the NS manual.....)
My old arse reflexes, caused me to use the Rocket Jump script in TF, always as a soldier "crazypsyko" storming over the bridge and jumping up top in 2fort to waste those pesky snipers. Never did get the rocket jump down in Quake. Only other scripts I ever used was some automated text replies and playing the colored cool name game in Quake. I think even the rocket jump script could be seen as a cheat, so Im a darned cheating slute.
Can scripts be cheats? Depends. Some are. Some are not.
This is an example script I wrote in my Quake: Team Fortress days, that I now consider a cheat, though at the time I did not. <a href='http://www.geocities.com/bladesingerlith/spy.html' target='_blank'>http://www.geocities.com/bladesingerlith/spy.html</a>
Its designed to make the spy class alot easier to play, and about 10 times faster to disguise. That would be a cheat.
The following script is NOT a cheat, but is used also in Quake: Team Fortress. <a href='http://www.geocities.com/bladesingerlith/Com-config.txt' target='_blank'>http://www.geocities.com/bladesingerlith/C.../Com-config.txt</a>
Its designed to allow for map spacific chat commands bound to the F## keys, as well as key binding two "quick access" keys on the fly, based on the map, with a simple switch to change between diffrent map configs.
If you cant see the diffrence, then there is no hope for you.
<!--QuoteBegin--RazorClaw+Feb 22 2003, 10:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RazorClaw @ Feb 22 2003, 10:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I would also say that <b>other factors which <u>you personally</u> don't seem to consider cheating such as hardware (monitor, cpu, gfx card mouse etc etc) are equally important</b>. If me using these scripts improves my performance by lets say 5% and having the latest hardware (without scripts) would also improve it by 5% what difference does it make if Im playing on a crappy PC using scripts or the latest state of the art computer hardware if I would play equally well in both situations?
IMHO Im not hurting anyone and nor is anyone else using scripts as long as they stay within certain bounds, and thats my FINAL oppinion. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In this situation, a better computer means absolutely nothing in this game. It's nearly five years old. If your computer cannot handle it, too bad. You're trying to tell me that meeting or exceeding the requirements listed on a game box is cheating? Are you <i>kidding</i> me?
And regardless of what your opinion is, Flayra has stated: <b>It. Is. Cheating.</b> Plain and simple. He is the designer of the game. He makes the rules. You don't. By not following the rules, even bending them, you are a cheater. There is no grey area here. It's black and white. You either cheat, or you don't. There isn't varying degrees of bad.
Regardless, I think we have reached a point that we have to agree to disagree. I will play on my servers that don't allow these kind of actions. You can play on yours. Have fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--shader+Feb 22 2003, 12:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (shader @ Feb 22 2003, 12:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <b>Player #3</b> this girl has written a toggle script. she has set up one key near her movement keys to toggle between leap mode and bite mode. every time she presses the key it swaps her active weapon from one to the other. in the heat of battle, she may forget which one is active and bite when she meant to leap or vice versa.
scripts are not cheats in any way shape or form, they are just a faster way to do commands than the average person. Scripts do not contain any such commands that a person can not do himself, it simply speeds up the proccess or makes it a lot easyer. Basically your entire config.cfg is a script, it binds keys to do commands. Thats all a script does, i think if a person wishes to use a script its thier choice and no one elses. if u dont like it and think its unfair or a "cheat" your SOL and just need to deal with it. Maybe you people should stop bitching and debating scripts and get better at the game to overcome them. thats my 2 cents
Acyrlic, the only problem with your logic is that 99% of the time, the only way to be on par with someone that has good scripts is to ALSO use scripts. This is not right at all. It shouldn't be a neccesity to do so many things out of game to make you good in game.
Luckily, this isn't the case - 99% of the servers I've played on confront people that are suspected to be using gameplay-changing scripts and boot their butts if they believe scripts are being used.
Finally, I'd just like to say - hearing the word 'script' so many times in one thread really makes it sound funny. Script. Script script. Scriiiipt. What an odd word.
<!--QuoteBegin--MedHead+Feb 22 2003, 09:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Feb 22 2003, 09:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Which would then support that scripting gives an unfair advantage, and therefore is a cheat.
I don't understand why people seem to think that cheating, if it's not too big of a cheat, is therefore okay. Where do you draw the line on 'wrong'? As long as it doesn't allow you to see through walls, you're okay with it? Come on guys, get some standards, some integrity! You keep bending, and the cheaters will keep pushing!
I also don't understand why the cheat sympathizers keep rationalizing these things away, regardless of the fact that Flayra has already declared it a cheat! I think that shows you that <b>you are already wrong.</b>
When will everyone finally admit scripts like these are cheating? Will you finally admit scripts are generally wrong when they play the game for you? Is that when they cross the line?
Moon, let me propose something. Let's say I'm an experienced veteran. I am one of the top players in the world. I have a fully scripted, customized version of Natural Selection. I have edited all my models to be blank (without using the drawviewmodel exploit). I have edited out all background sounds. I have made multiple scripts to change weapons quickly. I've increased the sounds of footsteps so I can hear everyone better. I have increased the gamma and brightness so I don't have any shadows. I have perfected the bunny hop, allowing me to dodge most of your attacks. You, however, do not. You may be good, but you're running the stock version of Natural Selection. You haven't even changed your name yet. Are you now willing to state that these 'modifications' to my computer don't give much of an advantage? If left seperate, none of these seem to go beyond your personal specification of giving too much of an advantage. However, combined, they seem to be quite daunting, don't they? And in the right hands, they're even worse!
And who said that the players using these scripts actually wrote them? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You have a problem. You are starting off from the beginning with the completely wrong mindset.
Flayra has NEVER said that scripting is cheating. That is a myth that continues to unfortunately propagate itself. There is code in NS that conflicts with certain scripts. This code was NOT put in to prevent scripting perse... It was implemented to prevent certain exploits from being used (this does NOT mean those exploits could only be done via scripting either).
Scripting is not cheating. Simple. Valve did include the ability for players to script. HL is based off the Quake 1 engine. Scripting was, needless to say, very widely used then, and so Valve KNEW and WANTED the ability to script included. So it was. The ability to script has some very obvious aspects that suggest that Valve approves of scripting. Want an example? The ability to bind multiple commands to one key via the ';'. Or another example is the ability to create an alias. I mean... Why would you even need to create an alias if some form of complex scripting was not intended in the first place? So what's the end conclusion? Scripting has always been intended to be used within HL. There cannot be any argument about that. There is NO proof to back up such a claim... where as there is plenty of proof to back up MY claim.
Scripting is not cheating. Scripting cannot play the game for you. It can automate some abilities, but the ability to use this automation effectively is a skill in and of itself. Now for a revelation... Scripting can make things easier, thus scripting CAN give an advantage. OMG! Can you believe that?!? One individual has an advantage over another! How outrageous. Give me a break! Everyone has the ability to script. HL is an equal opportunity scripting engine. The idea of characterizing scripting as bad because it gives an individual who CHOSE to use the script an advantage over another individual who CHOSE NOT to use a script reminds me of the recent legal battles where a man is sueing a bunch of fast food chains because he CHOSE to eat there and now he's fat and has health problems. Bunnyhopping scripts are NOT bunnyhopping scripts. They are only jump scripts that help time jumps properly. The player must still KNOW and be able to bhop. It still takes skill (something I have yet to figure out even with the help of jump scripts in TFC). So ignore those individuals who claim scripting does not give significant advantages. It can. It all comes down to the ability of the individual and his ability to use the script effectively.
Scripting is not cheating. There are exploits in each individual mod, as well as within the HL engine, that scripts can be used to take advantage of. This is NOT the fault of scripting, but rather the fault of either the mod or the HL engine. Fix the exploit and the scripts that take advantage of the exploit will cease to be a problem.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In this situation, a better computer means absolutely nothing in this game. It's nearly five years old. If your computer cannot handle it, too bad. You're trying to tell me that meeting or exceeding the requirements listed on a game box is cheating? Are you kidding me?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have to admit you're ignorance and apparent illiteracy is really starting to get to me, you continue to misunderstand everything. Nowhere did I say it's cheating to have higher specs than someone else, what I did say is I find the advantage gained from having better hardware is comparable to using simple scripts which you say is cheating.
The word "hardware" did not just mean CPU/vid card etc but also stuff like having a high resolution mouse (sensitive) large monitor (easier to see things on) and a faster connection (less lag) most DEFINATELY has an impact on how well you do when playing. Seemingly you refuse to accept this fact, I don't know if you're too thick headed or full of yourself?
Im not denying the fact that someone using scripts have an advantage over someone who doesn't, why on earth would I or anyone go through the trouble of creating them if they didn't give me any edge?!? But I do stay WELL WITHIN the limits of what's possible to do without scripts. Why should one press 2-4 buttons when 1-2 could do the job just as well?
This is naturally just a guess on my part but I would think flayra was agains scripting mainly because it would eventually lead to advanced scripits doing stuff that no person could accomplish no matter how nimble they might be. To generalise and consider all forms of scripting the work of the devil is rediculous though, and I don't give a **** if that's flayras oppinion or not.
I was hoping you were more open minded, I can now see that's not the case. Suggesting that everything is black and white just confirms that you're a narrow-minded numbskull. Especially when there are no offical rules, you would never notice most people that use simple scripts to speed up some button pressing, cause it's not possible.
Usually to come to any agreement all partners have to make some "sacrifices", that's the "grey" area, what can be considered acceptable to both. If everyone was as intolerant and saw everything in black and white nobody would agree on anything.
-An example would be that scripts that only do 1-2 actions are acceptable while long complicated ones which makes you jump all over the screen are not.
Yes I agree you'd disagree with whatever I said, ok I'll say the earth is round<i>(ish)</i>. Now you have to say it's a cube of flat (or some other shape <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->.
<!--QuoteBegin--|ds|meatshield+Feb 22 2003, 02:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|ds|meatshield @ Feb 22 2003, 02:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> what do you type to bind a key to perform just leap? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> First set hud_fastswitch "1"
then something like
alias leap "slot3; +attack; wait; -attack; lastinv" bind <i>somekey</i> leap
Now you first press 2 select bite, then just press the key and you jump and immediately thereafter reselect bite.
If you want to be able to keep leaping you could make it
alias +leap "slot3; +attack; wait; -attack" alias -leap "lastinv"
...instead then you'll leap everytime you press the attack key till you release the button.
For some reason this doesnt work with umbra or blink though, I guess there is too little of a delay between switching to umbra/blink and using it. Personally Im gonna change it so it just toggles between slot1 and slot3 cause I can't get it to work with umbra/blink othervise. Perhaps it's actually a bug that it works with leap, I don't think it's suppoused to work like it does.
Atleat not if flayras "anti-script" code still is suppoused to be active.
Lastinv is able to be done through the config menu in HL. Im sorry if people think that this cheating but im not going to moved on this easily <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->. I need definate proof this is an exploit...
The main reason i use it is i have an extensively rebound keyboard so it is faster to use the lastinv key than to reach over to press the number keys. Also it can save my "life" since it alows me to empty my weapon, then pull my backup out without having to run through the reload anim <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Did i mention that id like there to be an option not to automatically reload empty magazines? Its annoying to emty LMG and pistol into a fade/onos, then cant pull knife until pistol reload anim finishes... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
babygirl, if u cant kill a skulk from a long hallway, regardless if he/she uses scripts or not while it is leaping then you just plain suck, you should be able to kill the skulk in mid light without even getting touched. I do not use script like that nor do i see a problem defeating them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Luckily, this isn't the case - 99% of the servers I've played on confront people that are suspected to be using game-play-changing scripts and boot their butts if they believe scripts are being used.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well you don't play on many server do you? I play on a server (i am a regular) and so does some russian kid named Zao, he can do exactly like the script as fast as the script, no he does not use it. This script is NOT a game play changing script, in-fact non are, bc they can all be done in some form manually. Like i said b4 your entire config.cfg is a script and jumping is no different than leap/bite they are both scripts that can be done manually or automatic. it all depends on the person. Games were made to be fun and comfortable to play, so if the user wishes to use scripts so be it. deal with it and get better until then shut up. If HL/NS/CS/TFC you name it was not supposed to have scripts, these commands would be hidden, but there not, its meant for customization for the user and only that user, they don't not have an unfair advantage over you, and if u think that deal with it or use a script. that is all
This almost made me cry for the future of humanity:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ok well he asked where to draw the line... well i think if someone makes a script that doesnt disadvantage other people tahts ok... draw the line at.. no recoil scripts n stuff like taht... scripts to bind keys to attack and so forth are not cheats....if it was possible to make a scripts to shoot all 100 bullets at once just by typing soemthing in the console eg: "bind mouse1 +attack;SHOOT ALL BULLETS" or something like that, then its still not a cheat, its a BUG!, even though something like that cant be done with just binds, im just trying to get my point across to you thick headed people... ITS NOT OUR FAULT THERE IS BUGS. is the mod in its final stage ? ? ? if not wait till the final release THEN post your exploit stuff.. if it is then i will shutup <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OK, you obviously see that as a bug, and that as a bug it´s perfectly fine to exploit it. "It´s not our fault there are bugs", you say. You know what group of people argue things like that? Children. And small ones, at that.
Other people (honest, mature people with a sense of fair play) immediately recognizes this as a bug NOT to exploit. We would never dream of using it just because "it´s in the game". This is what sets us apart. Children...and adults.
There is simply no way you could ever understand this. Your moral is simply too perverted into a self-serving system of beliefs. Maybe I shouldn´t go after you like this, because I´m pretty sure you´re simply not old enough to understand this yet.
More on topic: Not all scripts are bad. Somewhere there is a line, and I guess the dev team decides where it is. I just wish some people would have lines of their own, instead of saying "ITS NOT OUR FAULT THERE´S AN EXPLOIT I CAN ABUSE! Just because someone made a mistake doesn´t mean you´re not responsible for your own actions.
Oh, and repeatedly calling people who disagree with you "thickheaded" didn´t do the script-kiddie side any favour.
<!--QuoteBegin--Acrylic+Feb 22 2003, 03:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Acrylic @ Feb 22 2003, 03:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> babygirl, if u cant kill a skulk from a long hallway, regardless if he/she uses scripts or not while it is leaping then you just plain suck, you should be able to kill the skulk in mid light without even getting touched. I do not use script like that nor do i see a problem defeating them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You just totally sidestepped my whole post. Please reread it.
Comments
like i said before, go into a corner, have a cry, get up and your a new man. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just imagine how great you would be if you used scripts though! (btw I only mean for selecting stuff, I hardly ever comm but I still have some script that someone had made, can't remember who)
Anyway this script someone had made bound the different items to the numpad, and rebound the keys when you selected another build menu. If you have ANYTHING against that type of scripts you're being rediculous.
What's wrong with having concentrated the keys for building different structures to the numpad keys instead of spreading them all over the keyboard. Nice script IMO and NOT cheating, nice job whoever made it.
Those who say using certain type of hardware such as voicecom and 5+ button mice is OK, but are against scripting have double standards IMO. Using voicecom over typing and using mice with lots of extra buttons is as much cheating as using scripts.
If we want it to be COMPLETLY fair without any cheating going on whatsoever NS should be made to only run on PC with the exact same hardware, at the exact same resolutiong etc etc
How is anyone playing NS on a 56K modem using a 400Mhz p2 and a voodoo2 gonna stand a chance against someone with a 10Mbit connection 3.06Ghz P4 and a GeForceFX Ultra/R9700 Pro. That guy with the new expensive PC should be banned from every single NS server lame **** cheater.
It might take a couple of seconds longer for a comm to do each action without any shortcut keys. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which would then support that scripting gives an unfair advantage, and therefore is a cheat.
I don't understand why people seem to think that cheating, if it's not too big of a cheat, is therefore okay. Where do you draw the line on 'wrong'? As long as it doesn't allow you to see through walls, you're okay with it? Come on guys, get some standards, some integrity! You keep bending, and the cheaters will keep pushing!
I also don't understand why the cheat sympathizers keep rationalizing these things away, regardless of the fact that Flayra has already declared it a cheat! I think that shows you that <b>you are already wrong.</b>
When will everyone finally admit scripts like these are cheating? Will you finally admit scripts are generally wrong when they play the game for you? Is that when they cross the line?
Moon, let me propose something.
Let's say I'm an experienced veteran. I am one of the top players in the world. I have a fully scripted, customized version of Natural Selection. I have edited all my models to be blank (without using the drawviewmodel exploit). I have edited out all background sounds. I have made multiple scripts to change weapons quickly. I've increased the sounds of footsteps so I can hear everyone better. I have increased the gamma and brightness so I don't have any shadows. I have perfected the bunny hop, allowing me to dodge most of your attacks.
You, however, do not. You may be good, but you're running the stock version of Natural Selection. You haven't even changed your name yet.
Are you now willing to state that these 'modifications' to my computer don't give much of an advantage? If left seperate, none of these seem to go beyond your personal specification of giving too much of an advantage. However, combined, they seem to be quite daunting, don't they? And in the right hands, they're even worse!
And who said that the players using these scripts actually wrote them?
Leap doesn't do as much damage as people claim, I was once facing a LA marine and used leap straight at his torso, he died but I could have bit him to death faster than leap killed him. Leaping at em and biting kills em fastest for sure.
I read somewhere that it does damage till you touch the ground... thats so not true, it probably does damage about 5-10 times or something. I havent tested just guessing.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Using a higher spec PC and playing at higher res on a larger monitor also gives an advantage, is that also considered cheating?
People who complain about cheating are sad fools who can't stand losing, I don't care what people use as long as it doesnt allow them to fly around as a JPer wearing HA with as much HP/armor as an ONOS holding 1 HMG in each hand.
Those who say using certain type of hardware such as voicecom and 5+ button mice is OK, but are against scripting have double standards IMO. Using voicecom over typing and using mice with lots of extra buttons is as much cheating as using scripts.
If we want it to be COMPLETLY fair without any cheating going on whatsoever NS should be made to only run on PC with the exact same hardware, at the exact same resolutiong etc etc
How is anyone playing NS on a 56K modem using a 400Mhz p2 and a voodoo2 gonna stand a chance against someone with a 10Mbit connection 3.06Ghz P4 and a GeForceFX Ultra/R9700 Pro. That guy with the new expensive PC should be banned from every single NS server lame **** cheater. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those buttons are impulses. You can bind those to a key already. Since it's allowed already, I see nothing wrong with placing them on the numpad. However, I do see where people would have problem with your using the same button for multiple objects. The whole point of the configuration screen is that the user only uses the button once, rather than multiple times. That is where I think this script is wrong.
You can't be more wrong about the voicecomm. Vavle implemented it. Natural Selection supports it. Why would that be considered a cheat? Flayra (according to another user) stated scripting was cheating. He, however, never stated we were required to use a specific mouse, or to never use voicecomm.
Differing hardware is quite a large factor of increased performance. You are right. Buying better hardware has never been considered cheating in any medium, be it sports, gaming, or business. If that was the case, the gaming world would stagnate, since no user would be allowed to upgrade the computer! Which would mean Natural Selection would never have been made, since we would still be playing text based games!
Valve implemented scripting as well so that arguement doesn't carry any weight.
People who complain about cheating are sad fools who can't stand losing, I don't care what people use as long as it doesnt allow them to fly around as a JPer wearing HA with as much HP/armor as an ONOS holding 1 HMG in each hand. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I already stated it, but you replied before me. Building a better (insert object here) is never considered wrong, because it's a vital part of the business world. Would you rather everything ground to a halt?
I'm a fool because other users cheat? Excuse me? Should we all cheat then? Would that make you happy?
You're kidding about the Jetpacker comment, right? You'd be willing to play against a wallhacker? You think you'd be better than an aimbotter?
leap does alot of dmg when used right,especially against structures
it does even more when you bite with it eg. leap onto your target and bite while pushing against whatever the target may be
even so the big advantage of a leap script imo is to be able to bite and then leap,land behind the marine and bite him again b4 he knows whats happening
having leap bound to a single button press gives alot of mobility and is excellent for dodging fire
i almost never kill with leap except marines in vents
Valve implemented scripting as well so that arguement doesn't carry any weight. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
However, Valve also allowed users to change player models. Do you prefer yours bright pink, or neon yellow? My point was that Vavle recently installed voicecomm, which therefore couldn't mean it was cheating. Unless Valve is in the business of cheating.
On top of that, I'm not so sure Vavle really 'allowed' scripting. I have a feeling they were allowing the binding of keys in console, and, like many other things, it was made to give an advantage through scripts.
Look at Linux. Because it is open source, it allows users to make modifications to it easily. However, it also allows hackers to crack it all the more easily, <b>because</b> it's open source. It's only because it is constantly being patched that it stands a chance.
I'm keeping my opinion to myself, and ignoring the opinions of everyone else.
Bah, I say.
Bah to you all.
If I don't use any type of leap script, I usually and up pressing the wrong buttons... resulting in for example me leaping at a guy then by mistake choosing parasite instead of bite and Im dead. While the anti-script code was enabled you hardly saw anyone using leap, after the update where they removed the death penalities you immediately saw lots of people jumping around and biting at stuff. It's too complicated to select the stuff manually.
What these scripts do is basically enabling someone (like me) who doesnt have lightning fast and super human hand coordination to effectively use all the skills/abilities. I have never accused anyone of being a script cheater and I never will.
No human no matter how keen your senses are can literally see through walls, you might roughly be able to tell where they are if you have good speakers/sound card. Nor can you empty a LMG clip in half the time as anyone else.
I categorize anything that you would need super human abilities for as cheating, seeing through walls running faster than anyone else etc.
Stuff that just <b>"improve" existing skills</b> I don't consider cheating, yes after some tought I admit if it was a sport or competition perhaps scripting could be considered cheating. But in public games there is no way to standardize anything, there is a "grey" area. I wouldnt punish or accuse anyone of cheating as long as they dont step into the <b>"black" area, more or less adding new skills/senses</b>. (stuff that no person could do, such as sieing invisible beings, seeing through walls etc)
As for the flying ONOS with akimbo HMG comment:) that was just an exaggeration/simile of that anything that is impossible without modifying the game itself. I suppouse I could kill an aimboter if I managed to sneak up behind him, as for a wallhacker as long as he isnt also an aimboter I guess I could kill him once in a while. Personally I wouldnt aproove of either of those.
You know how you get better with finger agility? Practice. Not scripts.
I really dislike people considering public games as somehow a lower level of entertainment. I avoid clan gaming like the Plague. I don't care for the elitist attitude among clans. I don't have the time to play in clans. Therefore, public gaming is the only alternative for me. I do not appreciate the attitude that it's okay to ruin my gaming experience because I'm one of those 'pubbers.'
As long as someone doesn't step over the line separating the obvious cheats from people just "extending" their skills... there is no way you can tell if they are using scripts or not.
I just play to have fun and I don't feel Im ruining anyones gaming experience by using simple scripts such as "leap->swith back to prev weapon" not leap/bit. For all they know I could just be a slightly more skilled player than I actually am.
This game is no sport I don't win any prizes for playing better/worse. If I was in a clan OR if someone publicly stated that no scripts what so ever were allowed on a certain server I would not use em. Im not out to decieve anyone, if Im using a script I wont deny it. However I won't either publicly state that Im using this and that each time I join a server just to be attacked by some intolerant/flame happy....)
I would also say that <b>other factors which <u>you personally</u> don't seem to consider cheating such as hardware (monitor, cpu, gfx card mouse etc etc) are equally important</b>. If me using these scripts improves my performance by lets say 5% and having the latest hardware (without scripts) would also improve it by 5% what difference does it make if Im playing on a crappy PC using scripts or the latest state of the art computer hardware if I would play equally well in both situations? There are so many factors that determine your "l33t skillz" that I find it rediculous that anyone concentrate just one one aspect of it and declares it a "death sin".
IMHO Im not hurting anyone and nor is anyone else using scripts as long as they stay within certain bounds, and thats my FINAL oppinion.
In TFC I used a spy script that told my team I was disguising as the enemy and what class the disguise was. It didn't allow my character to do anything it was not intended to do.
MANY other scripts were made to help automate clunky and unfriendly interfaces, like the buy menu on CS or the sentry build menu of earlier TFC versions. ValVe, guys who were visionaries on how to sell a game and keep it popular, opted to ADD the basic function of the sentry script to the game code INSTEAD of trying to tell everyone they were wrong for wanting an easier way to do things. TFC Rocket-jump scripts were generally considered fair by most because it was something the developers intended for you to be able to do AND it was fairly easy to do without scripts anyway. Mostly benifitted guys with 250+ pings, the lag would make timing the jump just impossible without a script.
However, as time progressed, lamers didn't know when to stop and REALLY pushed the bounds of what is acceptable, allowing their characters to do things that in most cases were *technically* possible, but highly unlkely to be able to pull off. <b>For example:</b>
There was a script for the TFC Engineer that stopped rockets and pipe bombs. When he saw a rocket fired at him, by pressing and holding one button he a) armed a grenade b) started building an ammo dispencer. The ammo dispencer appears instantly, and since it has not been completely built yet, is industructable. Ater the the rocket hits the dispencer, causing no damage, he lets off the button and c) stops building the dispencer which immediately dissapears and d) throws a grenade at the enemy. This type of script is generally considered a cheat and you could never use it in league matches.
And then of course, there are scripts that, while not technically a "hack", are called exploits. These allow you to do things that you were never intended to be able to do at all. <b>For example:</b>
The spectator script which exploited the brand-new "spectator mode" ValVe had added to the Half-Life engine. It allowed you to move around the map just like the /noclip cheat code, except you could pick up objects and could shoot people. Was quickly and thoroughly squashed by ValVe. Also, the 3rd person script, which was never removed by ValVe because it is a valuable (and nessecary IMHO) tool for map and model builders, and some mods actually make use of it (Science and Industry to name one)
I don't know that much about NS scripts, but I have to admit that aside from communication scripts there isn't really that much that you need to script for in NS, unless you are trying to use an exploit or you lost an arm in a tragic farming accident. The mod developers were pretty much on top of things in the "user-friendly" catagory. (Now if they would only do the same thing for the NS manual.....)
Hope this sheds some light peoples questions
This is an example script I wrote in my Quake: Team Fortress days, that I now consider a cheat, though at the time I did not.
<a href='http://www.geocities.com/bladesingerlith/spy.html' target='_blank'>http://www.geocities.com/bladesingerlith/spy.html</a>
Its designed to make the spy class alot easier to play, and about 10 times faster to disguise. That would be a cheat.
The following script is NOT a cheat, but is used also in Quake: Team Fortress.
<a href='http://www.geocities.com/bladesingerlith/Com-config.txt' target='_blank'>http://www.geocities.com/bladesingerlith/C.../Com-config.txt</a>
Its designed to allow for map spacific chat commands bound to the F## keys, as well as key binding two "quick access" keys on the fly, based on the map, with a simple switch to change between diffrent map configs.
If you cant see the diffrence, then there is no hope for you.
IMHO Im not hurting anyone and nor is anyone else using scripts as long as they stay within certain bounds, and thats my FINAL oppinion. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In this situation, a better computer means absolutely nothing in this game. It's nearly five years old. If your computer cannot handle it, too bad. You're trying to tell me that meeting or exceeding the requirements listed on a game box is cheating? Are you <i>kidding</i> me?
And regardless of what your opinion is, Flayra has stated: <b>It. Is. Cheating.</b> Plain and simple. He is the designer of the game. He makes the rules. You don't. By not following the rules, even bending them, you are a cheater. There is no grey area here. It's black and white. You either cheat, or you don't. There isn't varying degrees of bad.
Regardless, I think we have reached a point that we have to agree to disagree. I will play on my servers that don't allow these kind of actions. You can play on yours. Have fun.
this girl has written a toggle script. she has set up one key near her movement keys to toggle between leap mode and bite mode. every time she presses the key it swaps her active weapon from one to the other. in the heat of battle, she may forget which one is active and bite when she meant to leap or vice versa.
leap/bite sequence: press toggle key, press fire, press toggle key again, press fire
[ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Girls don´t script <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Luckily, this isn't the case - 99% of the servers I've played on confront people that are suspected to be using gameplay-changing scripts and boot their butts if they believe scripts are being used.
Finally, I'd just like to say - hearing the word 'script' so many times in one thread really makes it sound funny. Script. Script script. Scriiiipt. What an odd word.
I don't understand why people seem to think that cheating, if it's not too big of a cheat, is therefore okay. Where do you draw the line on 'wrong'? As long as it doesn't allow you to see through walls, you're okay with it? Come on guys, get some standards, some integrity! You keep bending, and the cheaters will keep pushing!
I also don't understand why the cheat sympathizers keep rationalizing these things away, regardless of the fact that Flayra has already declared it a cheat! I think that shows you that <b>you are already wrong.</b>
When will everyone finally admit scripts like these are cheating? Will you finally admit scripts are generally wrong when they play the game for you? Is that when they cross the line?
Moon, let me propose something.
Let's say I'm an experienced veteran. I am one of the top players in the world. I have a fully scripted, customized version of Natural Selection. I have edited all my models to be blank (without using the drawviewmodel exploit). I have edited out all background sounds. I have made multiple scripts to change weapons quickly. I've increased the sounds of footsteps so I can hear everyone better. I have increased the gamma and brightness so I don't have any shadows. I have perfected the bunny hop, allowing me to dodge most of your attacks.
You, however, do not. You may be good, but you're running the stock version of Natural Selection. You haven't even changed your name yet.
Are you now willing to state that these 'modifications' to my computer don't give much of an advantage? If left seperate, none of these seem to go beyond your personal specification of giving too much of an advantage. However, combined, they seem to be quite daunting, don't they? And in the right hands, they're even worse!
And who said that the players using these scripts actually wrote them? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have a problem. You are starting off from the beginning with the completely wrong mindset.
Flayra has NEVER said that scripting is cheating. That is a myth that continues to unfortunately propagate itself. There is code in NS that conflicts with certain scripts. This code was NOT put in to prevent scripting perse... It was implemented to prevent certain exploits from being used (this does NOT mean those exploits could only be done via scripting either).
Scripting is not cheating. Simple. Valve did include the ability for players to script. HL is based off the Quake 1 engine. Scripting was, needless to say, very widely used then, and so Valve KNEW and WANTED the ability to script included. So it was. The ability to script has some very obvious aspects that suggest that Valve approves of scripting. Want an example? The ability to bind multiple commands to one key via the ';'. Or another example is the ability to create an alias. I mean... Why would you even need to create an alias if some form of complex scripting was not intended in the first place? So what's the end conclusion? Scripting has always been intended to be used within HL. There cannot be any argument about that. There is NO proof to back up such a claim... where as there is plenty of proof to back up MY claim.
Scripting is not cheating. Scripting cannot play the game for you. It can automate some abilities, but the ability to use this automation effectively is a skill in and of itself. Now for a revelation... Scripting can make things easier, thus scripting CAN give an advantage. OMG! Can you believe that?!? One individual has an advantage over another! How outrageous. Give me a break! Everyone has the ability to script. HL is an equal opportunity scripting engine. The idea of characterizing scripting as bad because it gives an individual who CHOSE to use the script an advantage over another individual who CHOSE NOT to use a script reminds me of the recent legal battles where a man is sueing a bunch of fast food chains because he CHOSE to eat there and now he's fat and has health problems. Bunnyhopping scripts are NOT bunnyhopping scripts. They are only jump scripts that help time jumps properly. The player must still KNOW and be able to bhop. It still takes skill (something I have yet to figure out even with the help of jump scripts in TFC). So ignore those individuals who claim scripting does not give significant advantages. It can. It all comes down to the ability of the individual and his ability to use the script effectively.
Scripting is not cheating. There are exploits in each individual mod, as well as within the HL engine, that scripts can be used to take advantage of. This is NOT the fault of scripting, but rather the fault of either the mod or the HL engine. Fix the exploit and the scripts that take advantage of the exploit will cease to be a problem.
I have to admit you're ignorance and apparent illiteracy is really starting to get to me, you continue to misunderstand everything. Nowhere did I say it's cheating to have higher specs than someone else, what I did say is I find the advantage gained from having better hardware is comparable to using simple scripts which you say is cheating.
The word "hardware" did not just mean CPU/vid card etc but also stuff like having a high resolution mouse (sensitive) large monitor (easier to see things on) and a faster connection (less lag) most DEFINATELY has an impact on how well you do when playing. Seemingly you refuse to accept this fact, I don't know if you're too thick headed or full of yourself?
Im not denying the fact that someone using scripts have an advantage over someone who doesn't, why on earth would I or anyone go through the trouble of creating them if they didn't give me any edge?!? But I do stay WELL WITHIN the limits of what's possible to do without scripts. Why should one press 2-4 buttons when 1-2 could do the job just as well?
This is naturally just a guess on my part but I would think flayra was agains scripting mainly because it would eventually lead to advanced scripits doing stuff that no person could accomplish no matter how nimble they might be. To generalise and consider all forms of scripting the work of the devil is rediculous though, and I don't give a **** if that's flayras oppinion or not.
I was hoping you were more open minded, I can now see that's not the case. Suggesting that everything is black and white just confirms that you're a narrow-minded numbskull. Especially when there are no offical rules, you would never notice most people that use simple scripts to speed up some button pressing, cause it's not possible.
Usually to come to any agreement all partners have to make some "sacrifices", that's the "grey" area, what can be considered acceptable to both. If everyone was as intolerant and saw everything in black and white nobody would agree on anything.
-An example would be that scripts that only do 1-2 actions are acceptable while long complicated ones which makes you jump all over the screen are not.
Yes I agree you'd disagree with whatever I said, ok I'll say the earth is round<i>(ish)</i>. Now you have to say it's a cube of flat (or some other shape <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->.
First set hud_fastswitch "1"
then something like
alias leap "slot3; +attack; wait; -attack; lastinv"
bind <i>somekey</i> leap
Now you first press 2 select bite, then just press the key and you jump and immediately thereafter reselect bite.
If you want to be able to keep leaping you could make it
alias +leap "slot3; +attack; wait; -attack"
alias -leap "lastinv"
...instead then you'll leap everytime you press the attack key till you release the button.
For some reason this doesnt work with umbra or blink though, I guess there is too little of a delay between switching to umbra/blink and using it. Personally Im gonna change it so it just toggles between slot1 and slot3 cause I can't get it to work with umbra/blink othervise. Perhaps it's actually a bug that it works with leap, I don't think it's suppoused to work like it does.
Atleat not if flayras "anti-script" code still is suppoused to be active.
The main reason i use it is i have an extensively rebound keyboard so it is faster to use the lastinv key than to reach over to press the number keys. Also it can save my "life" since it alows me to empty my weapon, then pull my backup out without having to run through the reload anim <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Did i mention that id like there to be an option not to automatically reload empty magazines? Its annoying to emty LMG and pistol into a fade/onos, then cant pull knife until pistol reload anim finishes... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Luckily, this isn't the case - 99% of the servers I've played on confront people that are suspected to be using game-play-changing scripts and boot their butts if they believe scripts are being used.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well you don't play on many server do you? I play on a server (i am a regular) and so does some russian kid named Zao, he can do exactly like the script as fast as the script, no he does not use it. This script is NOT a game play changing script, in-fact non are, bc they can all be done in some form manually. Like i said b4 your entire config.cfg is a script and jumping is no different than leap/bite they are both scripts that can be done manually or automatic. it all depends on the person. Games were made to be fun and comfortable to play, so if the user wishes to use scripts so be it. deal with it and get better until then shut up. If HL/NS/CS/TFC you name it was not supposed to have scripts, these commands would be hidden, but there not, its meant for customization for the user and only that user, they don't not have an unfair advantage over you, and if u think that deal with it or use a script. that is all
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ok well he asked where to draw the line... well i think if someone makes a script that doesnt disadvantage other people tahts ok... draw the line at.. no recoil scripts n stuff like taht... scripts to bind keys to attack and so forth are not cheats....if it was possible to make a scripts to shoot all 100 bullets at once just by typing soemthing in the console eg: "bind mouse1 +attack;SHOOT ALL BULLETS" or something like that, then its still not a cheat, its a BUG!, even though something like that cant be done with just binds, im just trying to get my point across to you thick headed people... ITS NOT OUR FAULT THERE IS BUGS. is the mod in its final stage ? ? ? if not wait till the final release THEN post your exploit stuff.. if it is then i will shutup <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OK, you obviously see that as a bug, and that as a bug it´s perfectly fine to exploit it. "It´s not our fault there are bugs", you say. You know what group of people argue things like that? Children. And small ones, at that.
Other people (honest, mature people with a sense of fair play) immediately recognizes this as a bug NOT to exploit. We would never dream of using it just because "it´s in the game". This is what sets us apart. Children...and adults.
There is simply no way you could ever understand this. Your moral is simply too perverted into a self-serving system of beliefs. Maybe I shouldn´t go after you like this, because I´m pretty sure you´re simply not old enough to understand this yet.
More on topic: Not all scripts are bad. Somewhere there is a line, and I guess the dev team decides where it is. I just wish some people would have lines of their own, instead of saying "ITS NOT OUR FAULT THERE´S AN EXPLOIT I CAN ABUSE! Just because someone made a mistake doesn´t mean you´re not responsible for your own actions.
Oh, and repeatedly calling people who disagree with you "thickheaded" didn´t do the script-kiddie side any favour.
*sheesh*
You just totally sidestepped my whole post. Please reread it.